Player Discussion: Kyle Connor

[DashingDane]

I believe Ehlers took his game tapes home to Denmark and had his dad a junior team coach) and coach Eller, (Lars Eller's dad, real national team coach for over a decade) go over his play, game-by-game, situation-by-situation. He then worked on what he saw, and what his mentor coaches suggested.
Didn't take very long to see a vast difference in Nikolaj's compete and positional awareness and then confidence to bring his best offensive weapon(s) forward consistently. He is an under-rated "star" in the making! (Mostly his "own making")
Could you imagine Ehlers on a line with RN-H and McDavid,! Or Awesome Matthews and Hyman???
Maybe we will see even better than those with a potential Copp-PLD-N'hlers?

Small correction. Nikky's dad is the national team coach. He was a pro coach in Switzerland for many years before team Denmark.
Heinz Ehlers - Wikipedia

 

[DashingDane]

ehlers also doesn't spend much time playing actual defense i find. at playing actual defense id rate ehlers as average maybe slightly above average, but when he gets the puck in the dzone it's going the other-way pretty quickly. do people typically count that as actual defense? or transition play? or both?

Great question and I actually don't know. I tend to think people here are considering it actual defense since if we don't consider that as part of defense, I think Nikky is pretty average.

I maintain Connor isn't far behind Nikky. Overall our top 6 wingers aren't good defensively (unless we count Copp now) imo and we are only talking so much about it because our actual defensemen pretty much suck.

 

[GumbyCan2]

ehlers also doesn't spend much time playing actual defense i find. at playing actual defense id rate ehlers as average maybe slightly above average, but when he gets the puck in the dzone it's going the other-way pretty quickly. do people typically count that as actual defense? or transition play? or both?

That is transitional play for the most part, but this is as critical for a 5-man group on the ice that "one of 'em" can transition the defensive takeaway into offensive attack. Getting the puck in your own zone and safely controlling out of scoring chances against areas is a viable defensive quality. Then transitioning puck up the ice is a further crucial plus to strong defensive play.
Strong defending is not just blocking shots, tying a player's stick up and breaking up plays. A good defensive forward also works hard to be on the "right side of the play, or the puck". My understanding is that means being between your "man" and your net or zone. Not letting your man get past you without the puck., when defending opposition attack.

Connor v Ehlers fancy stats please...!!

I use the eye-test and see this difference. Sorry I don't have any fancy stats.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Small correction. Nikky's dad is the national team coach. He was a pro coach in Switzerland for many years before team Denmark.
Heinz Ehlers - Wikipedia

Thank you on that. Cheers to the EhlerS.

 

[BoneDocUK]

ehlers also doesn't spend much time playing actual defense i find. at playing actual defense id rate ehlers as average maybe slightly above average, but when he gets the puck in the dzone it's going the other-way pretty quickly. do people typically count that as actual defense? or transition play? or both?

Strictly speaking I'd say it's transition, but I'd count it as a part of team defence -- I mean, pretty much every team now is playing or looking for that puck-moving defence man who can transition the puck quickly and kickstart the offence, and Ehlers helps with that in a big way. But he also speeds back to break up plays and does his fair share of harrying puck-carriers. He isn't banging up and down the boards or actively blocking shots, fortunately, but he gets in the lanes and has great anticipation and positional sense. He's no 2-way wizard like Stone or even Copp, but he's also no McDavid, standing around looking bored until the puck is on his stick in space. He's usually in there mixing it up, usually for the better (and in a proportionately better way than what we were taught in my coaching course ).

It is a good question, and I'm sure more knowledgeable posters will weigh in.

 

[Jets 31]

Connor is a very good hockey player, better offensively than defensively but not all offensive players are good at both, far from it. I still think Connor and Dubois are going to be a very good pair together , gotta give them more than 1 game .

 

[GumbyCan2]

Great question and I actually don't know. I tend to think people here are considering it actual defense since if we don't consider that as part of defense, I think Nikky is pretty average.

I maintain Connor isn't far behind Nikky. Overall our top 6 wingers aren't good defensively (unless we count Copp now) imo and we are only talking so much about it because our actual defensemen pretty much suck.

I am not saying KC is "bad as it gets" defensively and Nikky is the "best". Nikky has worked very hard to try to get himself in the right position defensively to deter his man from getting easy scoring chances against. Whatever the fancy-stat numbers say, the media and the head coach have praised Nikky for defensive play improvement. Connor should hopefully be breaking up more plays and look better defensively because of his quick hands, feet and shiftiness. Ehlers appears to help get pucks out of harms way and transition out of defending, more regularly than Connor.
We can't have 8 Andrew Copp wingers and 4 Adam Lowry centers, and expect to afford them all and to score enough to win more games. Lowry was riding a huge shooting% scoring earlier games. Copp is steadily bringing on more offense as he adjusts to more valuable minutes and with more offensive players. His defensive game remains strong, just showing more often in neutral and offensive zone becsuse his line is in neutral and o-zone more than their own.
That is another area Nikky is showing value because he is getting control of pucks in our zone and getting them out and up the ice under control, spending less time of his shift in his own end. Connor, with Scheif-Wheels would get their o-looks but then could get trapped in their own end far too often, for too long and then burning out or getting scored on.

 

[Gm0ney]

Connor v Ehlers fancy stats please...!!

Connor has consistently ranked as one of the worst Jets forwards in xGA/60 since his debut in 2016-17.

Year		16-17	17-18	18-19	19-20	20-21
xGA/60		2.53	2.42	2.68	3.02	2.97
Rank*		1	3	1 (tie)	1	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Ehlers has been about average:

Year	15-16	16-17	17-18	18-19	19-20	20-21
xGA/60	2.08	2.23	2.2	2.29	2.46	2.21
Rank*	4	7	7	9	8	6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

* Worst-to-best for Jets forwards with over 100 minutes 5v5.

 

[WolfHouse]

That is transitional play for the most part, but this is as critical for a 5-man group on the ice that "one of 'em" can transition the defensive takeaway into offensive attack. Getting the puck in your own zone and safely controlling out of scoring chances against areas is a viable defensive quality. Then transitioning puck up the ice is a further crucial plus to strong defensive play.
Strong defending is not just blocking shots, tying a player's stick up and breaking up plays. A good defensive forward also works hard to be on the "right side of the play, or the puck". My understanding is that means being between your "man" and your net or zone. Not letting your man get past you without the puck., when defending opposition attack.


I use the eye-test and see this difference. Sorry I don't have any fancy stats.

For future reference, if someone is asking for fancy stats comparison and you don't have fancy stats... there's actually no need to answer.

 

[Whileee]

Connor v Ehlers fancy stats please...!!

This almost seems unfair...

 

[Gm0ney]

This almost seems unfair...

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I believe WolfHouse asked for fancy stats, not fancy bar graphs...

 

[GumbyCan2]

Is it on KC? For the last few years the coach has said he doesn't really coach him.

That can be a scary revelation by a head coach for sure.
The thing is this leaves a message to other team members and the fan-base that this player is the best and does everything expected of him irregardless of the situation, or his experience and then, therefore does nothing wrong. I can totally understand Laine feeling 2nd rate and being unsure or unhappy with his
"Seat-at-the-table" with where is his future her?
Not defending Laine one way or the other, just pointing out a coach's declaring out loud that one of his young players he never coaches or teaches him. Can absolutely leave other young, star-quality draft picks to feel jaded.
Scares me as a fan to hear that the HC has stated such regarding Kyle Connor. If Connor turns out 30+ goals again while becoming a double-digit + player and team is winning because of his contribution, blatantly more than any other players, then, "okay, no coaching required".
To other end of it, these guys are all professionals and their skill-sets defined with personal emphasis on improving areas they can change in their game, a Head coach should not have to teach hockey or coach skills.
He should be the master mind of tge "chess board" moving his pieces around smartly to get yhe best opportunity to win the game. Reading the room on who is going strong, who is flying at top speed, who is struggling and adjusting icetimes, player personnel accordingly in-game. Then, recognizing his teams' strengths and the weak spots and advise ways to improve and get the best out of each player forging a stronger successful team concept.
Of course, at this level you have to rely on your GM to get you the required pieces and the best potential roster possible.

 

[Jets 31]

This almost seems unfair...

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Unfair because he was stuck with Wheeler and Ehlers played mostly with Little.

 

[PhilJets]

The real question is ( instead of comparing the 2).

Can they deliver in the playoff?
Vs the better teams.
When the going gets rough and tighter they look gun shy.
Copp and Appleton can handle it but they are not the wingers to lead the ways into stanley cup finals.

 

[PhilJets]

There was no other way to fit them both in under the cap long term that offseason.

Agree,

But also for some reason Chevy didnt see that by singing Wheeler long term. Otherwise it was possible.

They saw how Ladd gonna be bad and they were able to let go. But not with Wheeler.
Probably 2 things

1) the coach is very tight with Wheeler
2) jets had a better team than Ladd

 

[Howard Chuck]

The real question is ( instead of comparing the 2).

Can they deliver in the playoff?
Vs the better teams.
When the going gets rough and tighter they look gun shy.
Copp and Appleton can handle it but they are not the wingers to lead the ways into stanley cup finals.

I’ve always thought the Jets overall are soft. They don’t finish checks, as a matter of fact most of the time they look like they avoid them.

It was odd last night to see PLD be physical and it really underscored how little the others hit.

One of the effects of this is that the team generally plays better when the game gets more physical. They seem more involved as opposed to having a lackluster game.

 

[GNP]

I wouldn't worry about Connor's defensive shortcomings if I were the coach, as his offensive scoring that wins us games, more tha make up for it. If he was to go into the corners, where it gets rough, he'd likely get hurt, as he's not that big.

I would just team him up with defensive forwards like PLD, or Copp, and live with his defensive shortcomings, and be happy with his offensive production. He'll never be a good defensive player IMO.

 

[PhilJets]

I’ve always thought the Jets overall are soft. They don’t finish checks, as a matter of fact most of the time they look like they avoid them.

It was odd last night to see PLD be physical and it really underscored how little the others hit.

One of the effects of this is that the team generally plays better when the game gets more physical. They seem more involved as opposed to having a lackluster game.

Our top 6 talent is not physical.
Having PLD being physical is good. But its only a wash (or replacement) as we lost Laine on that regards. They are both similar. They can be physical but they are not initimidators. Though Laine can become one, as he is an ass on ice vs other teams when he is going.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I just hope they keep Ehlers on the 1st line so there less resentment towards Kc for not being as good.

 

[Gm0ney]

I wouldn't worry about Connor's defensive shortcomings if I were the coach, as his offensive scoring that wins us games, more tha make up for it. If he was to go into the corners, where it gets rough, he'd likely get hurt, as he's not that big.

I would just team him up with defensive forwards like PLD, or Copp, and live with his defensive shortcomings, and be happy with his offensive production. He'll never be a good defensive player IMO.

Since 2018-19, Kyle Connor has been outscored while on the ice at 5v5: -14, 47.15% GF, 4th worst F on the Jets over that span. No Jet forward has been on the ice for more goals against the last three seasons than Connor. (Ehlers is +25).

 

[GNP]

Since 2018-19, Kyle Connor has been outscored while on the ice at 5v5: -14, 47.15% GF, 4th worst F on the Jets over that span. No Jet forward has been on the ice for more goals against the last three seasons than Connor. (Ehlers is +25).

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I'm sure your stats on Connor are correct, and all the more reason to play him with defensive forward partners, like PLD, or Copp. No need to worry about Ehlers, he's not that bad defensively-- as your numbers state.

 

[GNP]

I just hope they keep Ehlers on the 1st line so there less resentment towards Kc for not being as good.

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Ehlers should always be on the first line, and 1 power play as well. He should get more minutes than Connor. Both are good players, but I'd play Connor with good defensive forwards, as he's weak in his own zone. Play him with PLD and maybe Copp.

 

[WolfHouse]

I believe WolfHouse asked for fancy stats, not fancy bar graphs...

Argh... fancy SHOTS!!!

 

[jetsv2]

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I'm sure your stats on Connor are correct, and all the more reason to play him with defensive forward partners, like PLD, or Copp. No need to worry about Ehlers, he's not that bad defensively-- as your numbers state.

But you said not to worry about Connor because his offense makes up for the defensive shortcomings. The numbers that were posted clearly show that isn't the case. Connor over the last 3 years has been getting scored on more often then he is scoring when on the ice 5v5, which means his offense isn't winning games for us. Just sticking a better defensive forward on the ice with him isn't going to fix that instantly, Connor needs to learn to play in his own end of the rink.

 

[jepjepjoo]

Wheeler + Connor on ice = 32.56 xGf%
Connor without Wheeler = 33.26 xGf%
Wheeler without Connor = 41.17 xGf%

Jets without Wheeler or Connor on ice = 55.06xGf%