Player Discussion: Kyle Connor

[Adam da bomb]

The drama in Columbus suggests that's on the player.

And it’s on Kc that he’s not a good two player. That said I imagine his numbers will go up with teammates who can shelter him and fewer minutes. I also think the longer he is away from csw the better.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

And it’s on Kc that he’s not a good two player. That said I imagine his numbers will go up with teammates who can shelter him and fewer minutes. I also think the longer he is away from csw the better.

Is it on KC? For the last few years the coach has said he doesn't really coach him.

 

[Gm0ney]

But he did succeed with Ehlers...

I think it's more that Ehlers is just so good at zone exits and entries that he doesn't need to spend a lot of time in his own zone, as opposed to his stalwart defensive zone play.

 

[Turin]

Connor and Wheeler have been awful in their own end for like, almost 3 years now.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

And Maurice never succeeded in making Laine a two way player.

Well, he was better than those two last season.

In his first 3 seasons, his GF% was almost identical to Wheeler, and had a lower GA/60 than Connor.

In his first 2 seasons, he had the 2nd highest GF% on the team

Last season + this season, he had the 2nd highest again. Despite having a lower ZS% than for example Connor or Ehlers.

He had one bad year (due to a moronic summer training program), otherwise he has been at least "good enough" defensively

Connor is a reactionary player, he is very quick to jump on chances, but not so good building them up slowly.

I think Connor could be a good "brainless grinder", or someone trying to bounce on mistakes / trying to get the easiest blocked passes / shots

He just only seems to give it his all when he has the puck / he's on the offense, have at least 70% of that intensity trying to block shots / stop passes / go to the corners, and he'll be at least average defensively

 

[Adam da bomb]

Is it on KC? For the last few years the coach has said he doesn't really coach him.

Kc seems like he should be coachable. His instincts in back checking is always to cut off the trailer cut off the pass to the point but there are times he has to adapt go for the puck carrier. Switch from cutting off point guy to guy wide open in front of the net.

 

[BoneDocUK]

But he did succeed with Ehlers...

Or Ehlers succeeded with Ehlers. Doubt Mo was there holding his hand while Ehlers spent the summer of 2019 going over his game shift by shift in order to work out necessary adjustments and corrections. No coincidence that we saw big jumps that season and this one. He’s continually the first forward back to break up plays, covers his assignments in the DZ and anticipates plays in order to gain possession and exit or pass out of the zone. He isn’t some brainless speedster anymore, if he ever was. When KC makes that kind of play we hear about it. But Nik is doing it all the time.

KC can improve, and with his tools maybe he will, although the litany of praise over the years from PM regarding his defensive game may not add much urgency. It’s a Mo blind spot I am genuinely baffled by, because it defies the numbers and even the causal eye test. And yet it persists. Do Not Get.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Well, he was better than those two last season.

In his first 3 seasons, his GF% was almost identical to Wheeler, and had a lower GA/60 than Connor.

In his first 2 seasons, he had the 2nd highest GF% on the team

Last season + this season, he had the 2nd highest again. Despite having a lower ZS% than for example Connor or Ehlers.

He had one bad year (due to a moronic summer training program), otherwise he has been at least "good enough" defensively

Connor is a reactionary player, he is very quick to jump on chances, but not so good building them up slowly.

I think Connor could be a good "brainless grinder", or someone trying to bounce on mistakes / trying to get the easiest blocked passes / shots

He just only seems to give it his all when he has the puck / he's on the offense, have at least 70% of that intensity trying to block shots / stop passes / go to the corners, and he'll be at least average defensively

And Laine should be better considering the hype, considering the money he wants but that doesn’t make him good in his own end.

 

[WolfHouse]

Let's not rewrite history here.... Mo left Ehlers on the third line for a long time specifically to get his defensive game up to speed - that's only a couple years ago - just before Ehlers did his crazy summer video review...

I'm not a Mo fan but he has contributed (right or wrong) to Ehlers development as a complete player - whereas his view that Kyle Connor 'doesn't need to be coached' is somewhat baffling given Mo's usual approach to new guys.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Is it possible a large part of kc’s problem this season has been being paired with stas and Wheeler and their lack of speed not helping the problem? He’ll never be good in his end but put him with speedsters and he’ll be adequate in a sheltered role.
I’d also like to see how everyone’s numbers improve with Heinola.

 

[Muikea Bulju]

And Laine should be better considering the hype, considering the money he wants but that doesn’t make him good in his own end.

Well wasn't the "hype" larger with Connor, Scheifele, Wheelers? They were the ones playing more on the first line?

Laine has gotten way more criticism than any of those. For example when their deals were ending, majority here were saying sign Connor long-term, and a bridge for Laine.

 

[Halberdier]

Is it possible a large part of kc’s problem this season has been being paired with stas and Wheeler and their lack of speed not helping the problem? He’ll never be good in his end but put him with speedsters and he’ll be adequate in a sheltered role.
I’d also like to see how everyone’s numbers improve with Heinola.

If you look at fancy stats (xGF% to be precise) for Stastny, you will soon notice that playing with Stastny shouldn't *hurt* Connor defensively. Quite the contrary. Wheeler does, that's true. Supposedly PLD is going to help him even if not in the first game.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Well wasn't the "hype" larger with Connor, Scheifele, Wheelers? They were the ones playing more on the first line?

Laine has gotten way more criticism than any of those. For example when their deals were ending, majority here were saying sign Connor long-term, and a bridge for Laine.

Yea because Kc was willing to sign for 7mil and Laine would want 9 mil or more which he still hasnt earned which is far more of a risk.

 

[boanst]

Well wasn't the "hype" larger with Connor, Scheifele, Wheelers? They were the ones playing more on the first line?

Laine has gotten way more criticism than any of those. For example when their deals were ending, majority here were saying sign Connor long-term, and a bridge for Laine.

There was no other way to fit them both in under the cap long term that offseason.

 

[DashingDane]

Hot take. Ehlers is just as bad as Connor defensively but it just doesn't hurt the team as much because of his zone exits and neutral zone play. If that is actually true (I'm sure some will argue it isn't) then Connor can get to where Ehlers is. I think he has all the tools to be a monster in those metrics just like Nikky. They use their speed differently (north/south vs lateral movement) but their top speeds are about the same. If Connor works on driving play with the puck on his stick and less dump and chase I don't see why he wouldn't become close to elite and in turn look better defensively.

 

[rubikscube]

Hot take. Ehlers is just as bad as Connor defensively but it just doesn't hurt the team as much because of his zone exits and neutral zone play. If that is actually true (I'm sure some will argue it isn't) then Connor can get to where Ehlers is. I think he has all the tools to be a monster in those metrics just like Nikky. They use their speed differently (north/south vs lateral movement) but their top speeds are about the same. If Connor works on driving play with the puck on his stick and less dump and chase I don't see why he wouldn't become close to elite and in turn look better defensively.

This is a chicken and the egg statement. These skills are exactly what makes Ehlers better defensively.

 

[DashingDane]

This is a chicken and the egg statement. These skills are exactly what makes Ehlers better defensively.

That is fair. I do think Connor as similar attributes so I believe he can be successful defensively too

 

[Adam da bomb]

Hot take. Ehlers is just as bad as Connor defensively but it just doesn't hurt the team as much because of his zone exits and neutral zone play. If that is actually true (I'm sure some will argue it isn't) then Connor can get to where Ehlers is. I think he has all the tools to be a monster in those metrics just like Nikky. They use their speed differently (north/south vs lateral movement) but their top speeds are about the same. If Connor works on driving play with the puck on his stick and less dump and chase I don't see why he wouldn't become close to elite and in turn look better defensively.

I disagree you forgot all the back checking. Ehlers is elite at breaking up plays on the back check. He is also better at retrieving the puck and reading the play to break up passes. There are a lot of things he does better than Kc than just exits and entries.

 

[WolfHouse]

Connor v Ehlers fancy stats please...!!

 

[WolfHouse]

Connor and Ehlers do not have to be Lowry and Copp... but they can't be a total liability in their own zone and they need to drive play in the offensive zone - Connor has lost that somewhere along the line... it really does seem to be linked to CSW being their own entity on the team.

Mo runs a loose system where its more important that the wingers are ready to breakout of the zone than tie up their man... you can see that with Laine and Connor highlights while they are 'watching' a goal get scored... I really think they are just playing the position they were taught in Mo's system - wait for the D to cover their guy and be ready to turn the tide if the puck squirts loose...

 

[BoneDocUK]

IIRC, Connor was noted in some scouting reports for his all-round game and willingness to back-check, etc. It’s not like he lacks the tools or smarts to play a more rounded game, and he has the lower-body strength to dig in along the boards. Maybe he’s doing what he’s been told and that’s why Mo sees no issue there.

 

[DashingDane]

I disagree you forgot all the back checking. Ehlers is elite at breaking up plays on the back check. He is also better at retrieving the puck and reading the play to break up passes. There are a lot of things he does better than Kc than just exits and entries.

I agree on the back checking but I actually think Connor is just as good at breaking up play with his stick. He tends to do it more in the offensive zone and I'm not sure why but I think they have similar tools in that regard. He scored a goal doing just that two games ago as I'm sure you are aware of. Either way, Nikky is better at some things and Connor is better at some things. Same could be said about any player in the league.

 

[DRW204]

Hot take. Ehlers is just as bad as Connor defensively but it just doesn't hurt the team as much because of his zone exits and neutral zone play. If that is actually true (I'm sure some will argue it isn't) then Connor can get to where Ehlers is. I think he has all the tools to be a monster in those metrics just like Nikky. They use their speed differently (north/south vs lateral movement) but their top speeds are about the same. If Connor works on driving play with the puck on his stick and less dump and chase I don't see why he wouldn't become close to elite and in turn look better defensively.

ehlers also doesn't spend much time playing actual defense i find. at playing actual defense id rate ehlers as average maybe slightly above average, but when he gets the puck in the dzone it's going the other-way pretty quickly. do people typically count that as actual defense? or transition play? or both?

 

[GumbyCan2]

Or Ehlers succeeded with Ehlers. Doubt Mo was there holding his hand while Ehlers spent the summer of 2019 going over his game shift by shift in order to work out necessary adjustments and corrections. No coincidence that we saw big jumps that season and this one. He’s continually the first forward back to break up plays, covers his assignments in the DZ and anticipates plays in order to gain possession and exit or pass out of the zone. He isn’t some brainless speedster anymore, if he ever was. When KC makes that kind of play we hear about it. But Nik is doing it all the time.

KC can improve, and with his tools maybe he will, although the litany of praise over the years from PM regarding his defensive game may not add much urgency. It’s a Mo blind spot I am genuinely baffled by, because it defies the numbers and even the causal eye test. And yet it persists. Do Not Get.

I believe Ehlers took his game tapes home to Denmark and had his dad a junior team coach) and coach Eller, (Lars Eller's dad, real national team coach for over a decade) go over his play, game-by-game, situation-by-situation. He then worked on what he saw, and what his mentor coaches suggested.
Didn't take very long to see a vast difference in Nikolaj's compete and positional awareness and then confidence to bring his best offensive weapon(s) forward consistently. He is an under-rated "star" in the making! (Mostly his "own making")
Could you imagine Ehlers on a line with RN-H and McDavid,! Or Awesome Matthews and Hyman???
Maybe we will see even better than those with a potential Copp-PLD-N'hlers?

 

[GumbyCan2]

IIRC, Connor was noted in some scouting reports for his all-round game and willingness to back-check, etc. It’s not like he lacks the tools or smarts to play a more rounded game, and he has the lower-body strength to dig in along the boards. Maybe he’s doing what he’s been told and that’s why Mo sees no issue there.

My biggest wish to see from KC is finishing checks!
He is so quick and fast on the forecheck that he creates at least 10 ideal situations of seeing an opponents numbers right in front of him and yet he fails to even brush the opponent lightly. If he would throw a shoulder into opponents more often, they would be a little more scrambly and cautious knowing he is on them and going to have to brace for a hit. At very least, coaching 101 in midgets taught us Canuck kids that not finishing a check when right there in front of you is like stepping out of they the way for opponent to skate away freely. When you at least bump your man as he gets the puck up ice or out your reach sends a message and deters them from getting back in the play ahead of you. That is my "gripe" (sour "Grapes")