Confirmed with Link: Kravtsov requests trade

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Went completely over my head lmao, I thought you just misspelled Bart and couldn’t tell if that was Bart :laugh: I need to go back and watch old episodes of The Simpson sometime, I like the show but my entire lifetime has been after it fell off. Love the Simpsons land at Universal Studios
Honestly I haven't watched the show in about 10 years or with any regularity in about 15. I looked and the Bort Sampson episode is from 2013 so I'm not sure when I would have even seen it. :laugh: I must have seen it in a meme or something.

I also remember Santos L. Halpar. That's from the time I remember LOL.
 
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They need to put him in the lineup, give him proper minutes and let him succeed or fail on his own, then you can do what you want, because to me he earned a spot on the team and wasn't given it, if he comes up and plays bad enough to take him out then the org can point to that as the reason. If he comes in and plays well then bonus.

And how do you explain all of this to the guy who beat Krav out for a spot and is now out of a starting job because the guy he beat threw a particularly loud temper tantrum?
 
I honestly feel he earned a spot, i think this was more about Drury proving a point than anything when he just should have been happy the kid came across and looked good.

As I asked someone else, based on previous play and pre-season performance, which of the following 9 guys should have been demoted or sent to the AHL over Krav?

Panarin, Strome, Kakko, Laf, Kreider, Zib, Chytil, Blais, or Goodrow?
 
Eh, people mature on different timelines, and some never mature at all. That said, there's a difference between having a bit more patience with a kid for mouthing off or making a poor decision and putting up with a player TWICE disrupting the whole team by pitching a fit and going home. The former is a "kid" still learning how to be a professional. The latter is a kid refusing to be a professional. And kid or not, the moment he signed that contract, he became a professional. Also, once you pass 40, you pretty much start thinking of everyone as a kid, haha.
Yeah, I've probably done a bad job explaining my stance. It's not so much that at 21 he should be expected to be some perfect adult. It's just that, even if you're behind the curve and are still quite immature even for a 21 year old, that isn't an excuse. It's maybe an explanation but it's not an excuse. If you're going to play at the highest level, there are certain expectations for how you handle yourself. The expectations are higher than they would be for most other 21 year olds. Guys f*** it up all the time. I accept that as an explanation but not an excuse. JMO.
 
Everyone in here crying that Kravtsov was "beat out of a spot." Please.

First off, he didn't get a full crack at the preseason. He was injured. Tough to compete for a spot when you're literally unable to play preseason games.

Second, Sammy Blais was brought in here to play. I can promise you that nothing pisses off players more than when the GM goes out and signs/trades guys that play the same position as you. Which, tough shit for the players because it's about the team but every interview you see when the media asks a guy about a player the team signed, I can assure you, is bullshit.

"yeah he's a great player, he'll bring so much to our club"

Which translated = f*** this GM for making my life 10x more difficult, not having faith in me in the first place, and creating an absolute log jam at the position that I play

Every elite organization has internal competition, sometime fierce internal competition. And it's managements job to manage how severe this gets. Do I have any proof to back up my claims that this is going on behind the scenes? No. But I've been apart of enough organizations like this to know with 99% certainty what's happening here.

Kravtsov is done in NYR, the blame squarely doesn't lie with Drury but management definitely could've handled this one better. You have to realize you're dealing with a kid.

Goodrow btw hasn't done jack shit in 3 games
 
Yeah, I've probably done a bad job explaining my stance. It's not so much that at 21 he should be expected to be some perfect adult. It's just that, even if you're behind the curve and are still quite immature even for a 21 year old, that isn't an excuse. It's maybe an explanation but it's not an excuse. If you're going to play at the highest level, there are certain expectations for how you handle yourself. The expectations are higher than they would be for most other 21 year olds. Guys f*** it up all the time. I accept that as an explanation but not an excuse. JMO.

Definitely. And as you said--he's a professional. By signing that contract, he's given up some of his claims of kid-hood. This isn't a 21 year old college kid banging cocktail waitresses, this is a highly recruited intern telling the CEO that if they don't make him a partner, he's going back to college. That wouldn't work any better for said intern than it has for Kravtsov.
 
This isn't about the AHL, it's about him not trusting this organization bc of broken promises from brobov.

Furthermore, the guy who made those shit promises is gone. He needs to come back to Drury and give Chris a chance to show his character and his word. He can be a big piece here...
The problem here is he’s had issues with Drury specifically, it’s not Bobrov was solely the problem.

Him going back to Russia is not great though, understand on the surface why he did it but it seems like he just continues to make poor decisions
 
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Everyone in here crying that Kravtsov was "beat out of a spot." Please.

First off, he didn't get a full crack at the preseason. He was injured. Tough to compete for a spot when you're literally unable to play preseason games.

Second, Sammy Blais was brought in here to play. I can promise you that nothing pisses off players more than when the GM goes out and signs/trades guys that play the same position as you. Which, tough shit for the players because it's about the team but every interview you see when the media asks a guy about a player the team signed, I can assure you, is bullshit.

"yeah he's a great player, he'll bring so much to our club"

Which translated = f*** this GM for making my life 10x more difficult, not having faith in me in the first place, and creating an absolute log jam at the position that I play

Every elite organization has internal competition, sometime fierce internal competition. And it's managements job to manage how severe this gets. Do I have any proof to back up my claims that this is going on behind the scenes? No. But I've been apart of enough organizations like this to know with 99% certainty what's happening here.

Kravtsov is done in NYR, the blame squarely doesn't lie with Drury but management definitely could've handled this one better. You have to realize you're dealing with a kid.

Goodrow btw hasn't done jack shit in 3 games

Where is the log jam? The Rangers are extremely weak at RW. Blais is a LW anyway. If you want to say they brought in Reaves in his spot...sure...but Reaves/Kravtsov are not competing for the same role and have nothing to do with each other.
 
Everyone in here crying that Kravtsov was "beat out of a spot." Please.

First off, he didn't get a full crack at the preseason. He was injured. Tough to compete for a spot when you're literally unable to play preseason games.

Second, Sammy Blais was brought in here to play. I can promise you that nothing pisses off players more than when the GM goes out and signs/trades guys that play the same position as you. Which, tough shit for the players because it's about the team but every interview you see when the media asks a guy about a player the team signed, I can assure you, is bullshit.

"yeah he's a great player, he'll bring so much to our club"

Which translated = f*** this GM for making my life 10x more difficult, not having faith in me in the first place, and creating an absolute log jam at the position that I play

Every elite organization has internal competition, sometime fierce internal competition. And it's managements job to manage how severe this gets. Do I have any proof to back up my claims that this is going on behind the scenes? No. But I've been apart of enough organizations like this to know with 99% certainty what's happening here.

Kravtsov is done in NYR, the blame squarely doesn't lie with Drury but management definitely could've handled this one better. You have to realize you're dealing with a kid.

Goodrow btw hasn't done jack shit in 3 games
Even as the biggest Buch fanboy I have liked Blais. But you’re right Goodrow has been a total non factor. Genuinely looks exactly like Howden out there rocking 21 lol, giving that guy 6 years is insane
 
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Everyone in here crying that Kravtsov was "beat out of a spot." Please.

First off, he didn't get a full crack at the preseason. He was injured. Tough to compete for a spot when you're literally unable to play preseason games.

Second, Sammy Blais was brought in here to play. I can promise you that nothing pisses off players more than when the GM goes out and signs/trades guys that play the same position as you. Which, tough shit for the players because it's about the team but every interview you see when the media asks a guy about a player the team signed, I can assure you, is bullshit.

"yeah he's a great player, he'll bring so much to our club"

Which translated = f*** this GM for making my life 10x more difficult, not having faith in me in the first place, and creating an absolute log jam at the position that I play

Every elite organization has internal competition, sometime fierce internal competition. And it's managements job to manage how severe this gets. Do I have any proof to back up my claims that this is going on behind the scenes? No. But I've been apart of enough organizations like this to know with 99% certainty what's happening here.

Kravtsov is done in NYR, the blame squarely doesn't lie with Drury but management definitely could've handled this one better. You have to realize you're dealing with a kid.

Goodrow btw hasn't done jack shit in 3 games

What? Not only is Blais a LW and Kravtsov is a RW but the trade for Blais included the Rangers top RW. Quite the take on this one.
 
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Everyone in here crying that Kravtsov was "beat out of a spot." Please.

First off, he didn't get a full crack at the preseason. He was injured. Tough to compete for a spot when you're literally unable to play preseason games.

Second, Sammy Blais was brought in here to play. I can promise you that nothing pisses off players more than when the GM goes out and signs/trades guys that play the same position as you. Which, tough shit for the players because it's about the team but every interview you see when the media asks a guy about a player the team signed, I can assure you, is bullshit.

"yeah he's a great player, he'll bring so much to our club"

Which translated = f*** this GM for making my life 10x more difficult, not having faith in me in the first place, and creating an absolute log jam at the position that I play

Every elite organization has internal competition, sometime fierce internal competition. And it's managements job to manage how severe this gets. Do I have any proof to back up my claims that this is going on behind the scenes? No. But I've been apart of enough organizations like this to know with 99% certainty what's happening here.

Kravtsov is done in NYR, the blame squarely doesn't lie with Drury but management definitely could've handled this one better. You have to realize you're dealing with a kid.

Goodrow btw hasn't done jack shit in 3 games


Oh lordy,

In order:

1- Kravtsov played in two full pre-season games and part of another (the one where he got hurt). He also had ~a week of training camp before the games started, and practices between the games. He had an opportunity.

2- Sammy Blais can play either wing. He was brought in in exchange for Buchnevich--who only plays RW. At the absolute worst, the team moved out a first line winger for a 3rd line winger who in a pinch can be moved to the other side. That move did nothing but improve Kravtsov's odds of making the team. The problem is that Kravtsov, in two and a half pre-season games, scored one goal, on the power play, with guys he was not likely to play with. Blais? He played in four pre-season games, scoring 3 points--one was a PP goal, just like Krav, but the other two were even strength (a goal and an assist) playing with guys who were likely line-mates. On TOP of out-producing him, Blais also brought a physical element, throwing ~8 hits per game on most nights. You tell me, in light of that info, in what way did Kravtsov not get beat for that 3rd line RW spot by Blais?

3- Most elite organizations don't televise their "fierce internal competition." The NHL does. We have game tape and stat sheets, and they make it obvious how Blais beat Krav for that spot.

4- I'd like to see more from Goodrow as well. He gets more leash because he spent the last two years as part of the best 3rd line in hockey for the best team in hockey and winning back to back Stanley Cups. Doing that will give you a bit more leeway than 4 total career points and a .25 ppg scoring rate. If Krav wants to be treated like Goodrow, I'd be thrilled to do so once he accomplishes what Goodrow has accomplished.

5- Nobody is "crying" that Krav was beat out for a spot. We're stating it as the fact that it is. The Krav boosters are the ones saying that he should have been handed a spot based on what they think he WILL do rather than what he's actually done. Try that in the real world--send out a job letter going on about all the great things you plan to do rather than all the accomplishments you actually have--and see how far that gets you.
 
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Question for you: Have any of the 9 players who won spots over him (discounting the 4th line and spares, because they have nothing to do with him) NOT ALSO "done everything that was asked" of them? You are taking something that is a professional expectation and trying to turn it into a virtue. It's like the student who hands in an awful paper but wants an A because they "tried really hard."

Another question for you--taking into account both previous NHL and AHL accomplishments and their performances during preseason, which of the following 9 players do you feel was out-performed by Kravtsov?

Panarin, Strome, Kakko, Kreider, Zibanejad, Lafreniere, Chytil, Goodrow, or Blais

And I encourage you to actually think back to the games and look back at the numbers before answering.

Bottom line is that Krav was not "shafted." He got out-played by 9 guys competing for 9 spots, and didn't have the track record to justify special treatment. So he got sent down. JUST like Chytil in his 2nd season, who had proved a lot more than Krav has to date.


Sounds like they probably shouldn't of led him to believe he was making the team then, but nah it's all on VK.

The irony here is, he earned a spot over KK his draft year but got demoted anyway. Maybe his resume would be a little better if he wasn't a victim of the very same bias you are espousing that he demands.

At least I can admit both sides are being dumb, but if you can't see things from Kravtsov's perspective idk what to tell you man.
 
Sounds like they probably shouldn't of led him to believe he was making the team then, but nah it's all on VK.

The irony here is, he earned a spot over KK his draft year but got demoted anyway. Maybe his resume would be a little better if he wasn't a victim of the very same bias you are espousing that he demands.

At least I can admit both sides are being dumb, but if you can't see things from Kravtsov's perspective idk what to tell you man.
The team coulda done better.
Shoulda had a chat including Bread and Shesty reinforcing that he was important and that AHL was just part of process. Cite Fil, Kreids, DelZ etc as guys who went AhL briefly after time on NHL roster.

But no good excuse for bailing on teammates, actually twice in 25 months, especially if you believe yourself to be a leader and top player

That his agent didn't convince him to have some patience and take opportunity to prove his value astounds me.
 
Sounds like they probably shouldn't of led him to believe he was making the team then, but nah it's all on VK.

The irony here is, he earned a spot over KK his draft year but got demoted anyway. Maybe his resume would be a little better if he wasn't a victim of the very same bias you are espousing that he demands.

At least I can admit both sides are being dumb, but if you can't see things from Kravtsov's perspective idk what to tell you man.

Re: the leading him to believe he was making the team bit--isn't that just speculation at this point? And if not, how stupid does a kid have to be to think that a scout can promise him that?

Re: Kakko--putting aside for the moment the fact that that move was made by a GM and coach who are no longer employed by the team, Kakko (and frankly Laf) are exhibits A and B for WHY Kravtsov should have been sent to the AHL. They were kept up because of their draft status, and it wasn't the right decision. They weren't close to ready. They were handed spots rather than having to earn those spots. I actually respect Buffalo a bit for being willing to give their 1st overall the development time that he needs. Citing a case from the past where a player was handed a spot to the detriment of himself and the team is a curious argument here.

As for the attempt to "both sides" the issue, I'm sorry--I don't see any way in which the Rangers did Kravtsov wrong here. They greased the wheels for him by moving Buchnevich. They gave him the first crack at that 3rd line RW spot. They gave him every chance to win the spot in camp. When he (clearly) didn't win the spot, they sent him down to the AHL with praise and comments about how he'd be back with the NHL team sooner rather than later. In other words, they treated him like every other prospect in the damn league.

I get that Krav thinks that it's unfair and that people are being mean to him, but he's seemingly oblivious to the fact that he's being treated no different from anyone else in the league (including several of his own teammates who had to cut their teeth in the AHL after accomplishing far more than Krav has to this point). He's sabotaging his own career and blaming Drury to make himself feel better about it. The only legitimate gripe he might have is if the business with the scout making promises is true, but even then, you deal with it. Life sucks sometimes. He took what should have been a small speed bump and turned it into a potential career threatening obstacle purely due to ego and immaturity.
 
Re: the leading him to believe he was making the team bit--isn't that just speculation at this point? And if not, how stupid does a kid have to be to think that a scout can promise him that?

Re: Kakko--putting aside for the moment the fact that that move was made by a GM and coach who are no longer employed by the team, Kakko (and frankly Laf) are exhibits A and B for WHY Kravtsov should have been sent to the AHL. They were kept up because of their draft status, and it wasn't the right decision. They weren't close to ready. They were handed spots rather than having to earn those spots. I actually respect Buffalo a bit for being willing to give their 1st overall the development time that he needs. Citing a case from the past where a player was handed a spot to the detriment of himself and the team is a curious argument here.

As for the attempt to "both sides" the issue, I'm sorry--I don't see any way in which the Rangers did Kravtsov wrong here. They greased the wheels for him by moving Buchnevich. They gave him the first crack at that 3rd line RW spot. They gave him every chance to win the spot in camp. When he (clearly) didn't win the spot, they sent him down to the AHL with praise and comments about how he'd be back with the NHL team sooner rather than later. In other words, they treated him like every other prospect in the damn league.

I get that Krav thinks that it's unfair and that people are being mean to him, but he's seemingly oblivious to the fact that he's being treated no different from anyone else in the league (including several of his own teammates who had to cut their teeth in the AHL after accomplishing far more than Krav has to this point). He's sabotaging his own career and blaming Drury to make himself feel better about it. The only legitimate gripe he might have is if the business with the scout making promises is true, but even then, you deal with it. Life sucks sometimes. He took what should have been a small speed bump and turned it into a potential career threatening obstacle purely due to ego and immaturity.

There's plenty to disagree with here, but if i'm being honest I don't really have the energy to keep debating this. Sorry if that's lame.

Cheers though bud, you make some good points.
 
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The Rangers should not trade the player unless Drury's asking price is met. Drury should not do Kravtsov any favors.


Is it ever going to be met? With Kravtsov being back in Chelyabinsk I think he’s prepared for a prolonged standoff. Unlike other players in this situation money would not be a driving force for him to make the right decision. Doesn’t seem that his hockey career is a priority either. What’s the best for the Rangers organization? IMO get the best possible value now and move on - make him someone else’s headache to deal with.
 
Is it ever going to be met? With Kravtsov being back in Chelyabinsk I think he’s prepared for a prolonged standoff.
I don't think it's about that, but he clearly knows he's not playing for the Rangers again. So might as well fly home to meet family and friends while waiting for the situation to play out, be it tomorrow on two months from now.
 
Disagree. Asset management.

Would rather not have this be TDA Part II.
If you get him back let him RW on the top line while K2 is out. Showcase him, then if you feel he’s still immature, trade him at a greater value than he returns now.

So placating TDA would have been better for the team and organization? Got ya. What has he shown that “showcasing” him will necessarily maximize his value? You aren’t showcasing a player on a top line so whose getting screwed out of a spot.
 
I don't think it's about that, but he clearly knows he's not playing for the Rangers again. So might as well fly home to meet family and friends while waiting for the situation to play out, be it tomorrow on two months from now.

To me it’s another indication of Kravtsov immaturity (stupidity would be more apt) and that he doesn’t look to play along to reach a quick resolution that would also be in his best interest from NHL career standpoint.
 
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This isn't about the AHL, it's about him not trusting this organization bc of broken promises from brobov.

Furthermore, the guy who made those shit promises is gone. He needs to come back to Drury and give Chris a chance to show his character and his word. He can be a big piece here...
That’s what irks me most. Kravtsov had issues. Not *material* issues, but the team’s messaging was poor and his frustration was understandable. But the guys responsible we’re all fired. At least give the team a clean slate.
upload_2021-10-18_5-46-14.png
 
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To me it’s another indication of Kravtsov immaturity (stupidity would be more apt) and that he doesn’t look to play along to reach a quick resolution that would also be in his best interest from NHL career standpoint.

I agree he's making a mountain out of a mohill.

Unfortunately for Kravtsov his situation is not the same as Lias Andersson's. It's closer to Jesse P. Meaning, the Rangers view him as a top 6 talent. Whereas Lias was viewed as a bottom 6 guy. So, trading Lias for a 2nd round pick who turned into a different bottom 6 talent seems like pretty equal value all things being equal.

But because VK is viewed as a top 6 guy, trading him for anything less in return is not in the best interest of the Rangers even if they have to wait a few years. There's no rush to trade him for a 2nd round pick. If VK is going to stay in Russia -- it's really no headache for the org. Out of sight out of mind. Let him build his value up playing the K. Because trading for him for less just to get rid of the problem seems shortsighted and unnecessary.

So... if VK holds to his trade demand he is likely going to end up playing for at least a year if not much longer in the KHL (assuming the Rangers loan him).

If VK is fine staying the K, then he'll be fine. If he has bigger dreams, they are going to have to wait a long time.

I mean think about it. He refuses to play in the A only to play in a league that is basically the same skill level in the K. It's shortsighted on his part no matter what the relationship is like.
 
If you're old enough to serve in the military, old enough to own a home, old enough to drink, and old enough to be held accountable for your actions in the court of law as an adult, well then you're old enough to be held accountable for throwing an immature temper tantrum at 21 years old (he turns 22 in December even).
 
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You can tell from interviews he's an entitled rich kid. That said, I'm almost certain someone in the Ranger organization whined and dined him and promised him the earth to get him over to New York ASAP instead of taking his time to develop in KHL. Happens all the time with our players albeit scouts, GMs, agents doing the influencing. NHL teams want control of their assets.
He then went to Manhattan with his head in the clouds and reality hit him. Poor recipe for success with an unworldly spoiled kid.
Seeing Lafrenier and Kakko handed roster spots, which they certainly didn't earn with their on-ice performance when they first came to the NHL, doesn't help either.
Well done. What a **** show.:laugh:
 
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