Confirmed with Link: Kravtsov requests trade

[brakeyawself]

Most likely Canucks/Calgary/ANA/andLA I’m guessing.

Didn’t you say Stevie Y and the wings were high on him during his draft year? I could see him circling the waters to try and get him at a discounted price as well????

Chicago is s till a primary option I think. He would fit so well on that team.

 

[brakeyawself]

Did you see the flack Dury got for the Buchnevich trade? Imagine the reaction if he made a similar deal for VK without the fanbase knowing of his issues? And you generally don't come out after a trade and say yeah that guy we just traded to another team has issues because the public won't buy it then either. They'll think it's a CYA for a terrible trade. In some ways, these things run their course one way or another. The optimal approach re: return for VK was as a package for a bigger fish which is what Drury was looking at all summer. Is it ideal? Is it good asset management? No. Would the same exact thing have happened under Gorton and JD? I mean... I think so. Is your criticism valid? Sure. But is VK any different than Josh Ho Sang or Drouin or any number of guys just like them who do the same thing?

I mean, look at Pierre Luc Dubois? Certainly seems like a kid who has similar issues to VK. But CBJ played him and kept him around long enough to maximize his value.

The thing with these types of players... are they problematic, yes. Maybe avoid drafting them if poss. But once you have them, you maximize their value by having enough patience to put them on the ice. Because despite their issues they can still build a ton of value by showcasing their on-ice abilities.

If the report is true and he was only being sent down for a tiny period for conditioning and refused - i mean that's just such a fragile ego. I mean, I'd still be a little shocked by the reaction even knowing the player's history. They are literally telling him it'll be really short. All he had to do was go down for 1-2 weeks and if they didn't call him up he can throw his hissy fit then.

The bold is why I don't believe or trust the Ranger side of this at all right now. It just doesn't add up. All to ensure we maintain Hajek? Are they seriously that naive and blind ? There obsession with Hajek aside, I don't buy that narrative at all.

This is just speculation of course, but it would make sense that something more happened here. Something we aren't privy to and something disrespectful or raw enough to make VK lash out and refuse to go down. Again, like he was lied to, deceived, off the record.

Because you're right, IF they had told him it was just a short term move and he'd be back right away, if they guaranteed him that at least, would this really be his reaction? Without anything else going on behind the scenes? His reaction relative to what supposedly went on, just doesn't add up in my estimation. He would have to be so shortsighted and ignorant for that to be the case. And sure, it's possible, but I don't think likely. I have a feeling there's way more to this fiasco than we know and hopefully, eventually, maybe after a trade, we learn the whole story.

But really, would you or anyone else be shocked if Drury and Rangers upper management, who have mishandled situations in the past, lied, deceived and flat out disrespected a young player for whatever "reasons"? I wouldn't be shocked at all if that was the case.

 

[nyr2k2]

Is this being reported? If true I don't blame the team.

Yes, it's what Carp reported today.

15 Constant Krav-ing: Just a Kravtsov follow-up. He was told, in no uncertain terms, that he needed to go down and work on his conditioning after his lower-body injury during training camp. If he did so, he’d be back up quickly.

He was also left home during the team bonding trip to Rhode Island to get treatment on that injury. So it wasn’t as lopsided as it appeared, or perhaps as I portrayed it. Still, I think the Rangers had to know that he might react this way. That’s no reason to give a youngster a job, and I didn’t think he was particularly good in his preseason games. I saw him turn over a puck to avoid a hit in Bridgeport, and the coach surely noticed it. And no, he does not have a European escape clause. That was only for the first year of his ELC.

16. Finally, and I can’t stress this enough, nor understand why it’s so hard to understand: Kravtsov going down had absolutely nothing to do with Libor Hajek remaining with the team to avoid waivers.

Carpiniello: Reactionary roster decisions, lack of accountability are the starting point for the 2021-22 Rangers

 

[JohnC]

All Drury would need to do is point to Drouin and say, I'm doing what you did there. End of conversation

Drouin was coming off a season with a 21G 32A 53P stat line as a 21 year old. Kravstov hasn't shown any indication of putting up those kind of numbers anytime soon at the exact same age.

 

[Edge]

Did you see the flack Dury got for the Buchnevich trade? Imagine the reaction if he made a similar deal for VK without the fanbase knowing of his issues? And you generally don't come out after a trade and say yeah that guy we just traded to another team has issues because the public won't buy it then either. They'll think it's a CYA for a terrible trade. In some ways, these things run their course one way or another. The optimal approach re: return for VK was as a package for a bigger fish which is what Drury was looking at all summer. Is it ideal? Is it good asset management? No. Would the same exact thing have happened under Gorton and JD? I mean... I think so. Is your criticism valid? Sure. But is VK any different than Josh Ho Sang or Drouin or any number of guys just like them who do the same thing?

I mean, look at Pierre Luc Dubois? Certainly seems like a kid who has similar issues to VK. But CBJ played him and kept him around long enough to maximize his value.

The thing with these types of players... are they problematic, yes. Maybe avoid drafting them if poss. But once you have them, you maximize their value by having enough patience to put them on the ice. Because despite their issues they can still build a ton of value by showcasing their on-ice abilities.

If the report is true and he was only being sent down for a tiny period for conditioning and refused - i mean that's just such a fragile ego. I mean, I'd still be a little shocked by the reaction even knowing the player's history. They are literally telling him it'll be really short. All he had to do was go down for 1-2 weeks and if they didn't call him up he can throw his hissy fit then.

Here’s the thing though, you don’t do your job based on fan reaction. It doesn’t matter if people are dancing in the streets or hanging effigies of you. If that’s ever a factor in a move you need to make, then you’re already f***ed. Period. End. Of. Sentence.

They don’t have to come out and say anything. They made a hockey move. Just like they’ve never had to justify any of their moves, regardless of whether they were understood by the fans. Beyond that, if it mattered to them, they would do exactly what they’ve always done - given background info to reporters.

Again, none of this is unchartered territory.

To your point, yeah the Rangers aren’t the only team who made their lives harder. Of course they aren’t. Doesn’t change anything for them though.

You’re right about maximizing a players value and that’s something the Rangers haven’t done here and have made more difficult on themselves now. Columbus didn’t maximize PLD’s value, they took the best of what was left after it became a total shit show. They traded their headache for another headache. And frankly that’s one of the paths for us as well.

Lets not confuse “salvage” with “maximize”. They are two distinctly different terms. The Rangers are not on the cusp of maximizing VK’s value. I can assure you of that.

As for VK’s reaction, you’re 100 percent correct. No one with any street cred would disagree with your assessment of his ego. And now we’ve given the world one more example of it. That doesn’t help our cause.

As for being even slightly shocked, I can’t answer that. I don’t see how anyone close to the situation would be. As a fan you might be, because there’s a whole bunch of stuff that you weren’t a part of. But the front office? No. If this is a surprise to them than that’s a big concern. The standards for them are not the same as the average fan.

And BTW, part of the dispute is that they may not actually have told “him” anything. Which unfortunately would not be the first time with organization either.

 

[Thirty One]

Drouin was coming off a season with a 21G 32A 53P stat line as a 21 year old. Kravstov hasn't shown any indication of putting up those kind of numbers anytime soon at the exact same age.

Keep in mind he had a goal waved off on an offside challenge.

 

[gravey9]

And BTW, part of the dispute is that they may not actually have told “him” anything. Which unfortunately would not be the first time with organization either.

Wait -- are you saying they told his agent something that wasn't relayed? If so, that's not great because they need to speak directly to the player in matters like this. Eye to eye is the best way. But if they only merely called his rep that's not good. You can't expect the rep to couch the news in the same way. And beyond that, it speaks to a non-existent relationship between player and org. That would be untenable. If its that bad where player isn't really having clear communication with the team, then I can see more where you're coming from re: finding a resolution sooner.

ALSO, on a separate note, it makes a lot more sense why we were rumored to have interest in Tarasenko. That actually makes sense now.

 

[brakeyawself]

And BTW, part of the dispute is that they may not actually have told “him” anything. Which unfortunately would not be the first time with organization either.

That's what makes the most sense to me. That or they straight up lied to him.

At least, that would actually explain everything that has happened since.

I definitely don't believe the club toadies and mouthpieces right now. At least it appears to me they are pushing the propaganda hard to save face.

I swear, if this turns into Dylan Strome coming to the Rangers, I'm writing a harsh letter to Drury.

 

[nyr2k2]

That's what makes the most sense to me. That or they straight up lied to him.

At least, that would actually explain everything that has happened since.

I definitely don't believe the club toadies and mouthpieces right now. At least it appears to me they are pushing the propaganda hard to save face.

What would they gain from lying to him?

 

[Raspewtin]

What are Kravtsov’s life options if hockey doesn’t pan out? Serious question, and honestly a major discriminating factor I would use in evaluating prospects. Is this kid’s dad an oligarch or some shit?

he's from a rich and very well educated military family, he can really do whatever he wants

 

[gravey9]

he's from a rich and very well educated military family, he can really do whatever he wants

Crap. He can read.

 

[brakeyawself]

What would they gain from lying to him?

First and foremost, "gain" doesn't necessarily come into it. People lie all the time just to avoid having to deal with something or just to avoid the repercussions of something.

Second, it's plausible they promised or guaranteed him something earlier on that they had no business guaranteeing. And then as situations change over time, they couldn't keep such a promise. Let's say, misguided premature assurances. That they then had to backtrack on.

Lastly, there's different levels of management here. It could have been anyone from the top down saying something they should not have said or saying something they could not guarantee. People make promises all the time when things are going well, that they withdraw once a situation changes.

So it does not have to be a situation of direct "gain" as far as intent.

 

[Edge]

Wait -- are you saying they told his agent something that wasn't relayed? If so, that's not great because they need to speak directly to the player in matters like this. Eye to eye is the best way. But if they only merely called his rep that's not good. You can't expect the rep to couch the news in the same way. And beyond that, it speaks to a non-existent relationship between player and org. That would be untenable. If its that bad where player isn't really having clear communication with the team, then I can see more where you're coming from re: finding a resolution sooner.

ALSO, on a separate note, it makes a lot more sense why we were rumored to have interest in Tarasenko. That actually makes sense now.

That's what makes the most sense to me. That or they straight up lied to him.

At least, that would actually explain everything that has happened since.

I definitely don't believe the club toadies and mouthpieces right now. At least it appears to me they are pushing the propaganda hard to save face.

I swear, if this turns into Dylan Strome coming to the Rangers, I'm writing a harsh letter to Drury.

I don't think they lied to him. I think both sides didn't communicate entirely the way they likely needed to, or in the manner that they should've.

For me, that's a wasted opportunity and one that should've been flagged as a potential risk knowing:

A. How these things have gone off the rails before

B. Past complications with this player

That to me is where more likely than not the team failed to approach this properly. Beyond that, you can make the argument that if it's already to the point that we need to have an entire strategy to deal with a guy who hasn't cracked the NHL, we're probably already playing with fire.

 

[NYR Viper]

Drouin was coming off a season with a 21G 32A 53P stat line as a 21 year old. Kravstov hasn't shown any indication of putting up those kind of numbers anytime soon at the exact same age.

I just meant that he had a value in his mind for what Drouin was worth and he just waited it out

 

[New York RKY]

I hope that this is a learning experience for Rangers management so stupid mistakes like these don’t happen again. As edge said, This was going towards a bad ending fairly quickly and they failed on multiple occasions to nip this in the bud before the cat was out of the bag.

 

[NYR Viper]

I don't think they lied to him. I think both sides didn't communicate entirely the way they likely needed to, or in the manner that they should've.

For me, that's a wasted opportunity and one that should've been flagged as a potential risk knowing:

A. How these things have gone off the rails before

B. Past complications with this player

That to me is where more likely than not the team failed to approach this properly. Beyond that, you can make the argument that if it's already to the point that we need to have an entire strategy to deal with a guy who hasn't cracked the NHL, we're probably already playing with fire.

He should have been dealt over the summer. It's pretty clear. Hopefully they can find a player in a similar spot who can help the team moving forward.

Veleno
Hayton
Turcotte
Kupari


Add picks/prospects on either side to make it work. But the thing is, some team is going to have to want him

 

[brakeyawself]

I don't think they lied to him. I think both sides didn't communicate entirely the way they likely needed to, or in the manner that they should've.

For me, that's a wasted opportunity and one that should've been flagged as a potential risk knowing:

A. How these things have gone off the rails before

B. Past complications with this player

That to me is where more likely than not the team failed to approach this properly. Beyond that, you can make the argument that if it's already to the point that we need to have an entire strategy to deal with a guy who hasn't cracked the NHL, we're probably already playing with fire.

Well more to the point, if they did lie to him or prematurely guarantee something, it's not like they would admit it. If something like that did happen, the only way it would probably come out is after Krav is traded and he would be the one to have to make such an accusation because obviously, the Rangers wouldn't come out and admit something like that happened without being forced to.

Maybe they didn't. But there's no way of knowing right now. Or at least, I don't think it's wise to just take the organization or their mouth pieces at their word. Self interest and self preservation makes people do all kinds of things.

But the team DEFINITELY approached this improperly.

 

[RGY]

LAK and Turcotte make the most sense as a partner for a trade.

 

[rangers1314]

He should have been dealt over the summer. It's pretty clear. Hopefully they can find a player in a similar spot who can help the team moving forward.

Veleno
Hayton
Turcotte
Kupari


Add picks/prospects on either side to make it work. But the thing is, some team is going to have to want him

I have no doubt teams are calling and want him, but they want him for 30 cents on the dollar.

Maybe those prospects above could be had in the right deal, but considering the major red flags VK has shown, I doubt he's bringing one of of them back.

 

[brakeyawself]

He should have been dealt over the summer. It's pretty clear. Hopefully they can find a player in a similar spot who can help the team moving forward.

Veleno

Turcotte
Kupari


Add picks/prospects on either side to make it work. But the thing is, some team is going to have to want him

Agreed. If they thought there was a chance they didn't like how he was progressing, the wise thing would have been to trade him before ruining your relationship and ruining his value.

Fixed your list. There's no way in hell I would touch Hayton with a thousand foot poll. He just got sent back to the A. He's shown absolutely nothing substantial since being drafted. Not even like, anything to make anyone optimistic.

But I don't think the Kings would send Turcotte, but maybe they've soured on him a bit.

I might add Ryan Suzuki, Madden, Foudy, Pinelli to that list. Even Veleno might be a stretch at this point with how low Kravs value probably is.

Top 6 upside comes in many forms, in many tiers. I don't think we are getting a high probability successful prospect or a super high ceiling prospect in return for Krav with this situation.

Otherwise, I would want to go after someone like Perfetti, McMichael or Newhook, but obviously that's not happening.

 

[Edge]

To be clear, I have little doubt that VK was not going to be a part of the long-term future here. Talent aside, I think the team is likely to have moved him sooner rather than later to get a a different look/feel on the roster and because of concerns about the personality and approach.

I just don't think we gave ourselves a great shot at getting all that we could out of what was likely to be an inevitable parting of the ways. We under-performed in that area, even if the thought process was in the right ballpark. (And unfortunately I've felt that way about more than a few of our actions in recent months).

 

[NYR Viper]

I have no doubt teams are calling and want him, but they want him for 30 cents on the dollar.

Maybe those prospects above could be had in the right deal, but considering the major red flags VK has shown, I doubt he's bringing one of of them back.

Maybe. Some teams who are deep in prospects and lack space on the NHL roster may consider a home-run swing on a kid with clear high end talent and someone who has developed and stayed healthy since being drafted in lieu of a 'safer' player they have who may be blocked. I think the Kings probably have a couple of pieces who may be pushed down a bit by Danault and Arvidsson.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

To be clear, I have little doubt that VK was not going to be a part of the long-term future here. Talent aside, I think the team is likely to have moved him sooner rather than later to get a a different look/feel on the roster and because of concerns about the personality and approach.

I just don't think we gave ourselves a great shot at getting all that we could out of what was likely to be an inevitable parting of the ways. We under-performed in that area, even if the thought process was in the right ballpark. (And unfortunately I've felt that way about more than a few of our actions in recent months).

But this begs the question, if they knew this why trade Buch?

 

[nyr2k2]

First and foremost, "gain" doesn't necessarily come into it. People lie all the time just to avoid having to deal with something or just to avoid the repercussions of something.

Second, it's plausible they promised or guaranteed him something earlier on that they had no business guaranteeing. And then as situations change over time, they couldn't keep such a promise. Let's say, misguided premature assurances. That they then had to backtrack on.

Lastly, there's different levels of management here. It could have been anyone from the top down saying something they should not have said or saying something they could not guarantee. People make promises all the time when things are going well, that they withdraw once a situation changes.

So it does not have to be a situation of direct "gain" as far as intent.

There's always a gain. Unless you're a habitual liar who can't help himself, you lie to gain something--whether it's to gain some sort of favor or advantage, or to avoid an uncomfortable situation as you said, there's always a gain. If there's no gain there's no reason to lie. You can replace gain with "benefit" if you want.

I could see a situation where maybe someone promised him something that ended up not happening, but that seems like less of a lie and more like reneging. It's a subtle but important difference. We've all had people promise us things that didn't happen; did it not happen because, despite the genuine intentions of the person who made the promise, circumstances changed? Or did it not happen because the person was lying to you when they made the promise, knowing the promise would never come to pass? Both situations suck, but one is much more difficult to stomach, IMO.

Anyway, I haven't really seen anything to indicate that the team lied to him, misled him, or reneged on any promises. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but for me it's not at the top of the list of likely f*** ups.

 

[brakeyawself]

LAK and Turcotte make the most sense as a partner for a trade.

There's no way they would send Turcotte for Krav. It's not even close with Kravs value right now.

If we did send him to the Kings, it would likely be one of their other dozen center prospects, not named Vilardi, Byfield or Turcotte. So Kupari, Madden, Pinelli, JAD, Akil Thomas etc...