Proposal: Kotkaniemi for Graves 1 for 1

[Honour Over Glory]

Graves was good on the Avs and Devils. The fact that blokes here don't know the Sullivan effect makes this even more comical of a 2 page read of over the top reactions with zero context and knowledge.

Lest we forget this is a coach that made adjustments to a Norris Winner and threw him so off his game that basic things Karlsson was good at looked like he was lost and had no confidence. The coach trusted Ludvig, who just sucks, also a bloke that literally knocked himself out throwing a hit, in key 3rd pairing roles where he routinely looked awful in the painfully awful defensive system that Sullivan loves and many Pens defensemen struggle in.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Graves was good on the Avs and Devils. The fact that blokes here don't know the Sullivan effect makes this even more comical of a 2 page read of over the top reactions with zero context and knowledge.

Lest we forget this is a coach that made adjustments to a Norris Winner and threw him so off his game that basic things Karlsson was good at looked like he was lost and had no confidence. The coach trusted Ludvig, who just sucks, also a bloke that literally knocked himself out throwing a hit, in key 3rd pairing roles where he routinely looked awful in the painfully awful defensive system that Sullivan loves and many Pens defensemen struggle in.

He was very bad in the back half of his last season in New Jersey, especially the playoffs. There's a reason he wasn't re-signed.

 

[Zbynek]

Graves was good on the Avs and Devils. The fact that blokes here don't know the Sullivan effect makes this even more comical of a 2 page read of over the top reactions with zero context and knowledge.

Lest we forget this is a coach that made adjustments to a Norris Winner and threw him so off his game that basic things Karlsson was good at looked like he was lost and had no confidence. The coach trusted Ludvig, who just sucks, also a bloke that literally knocked himself out throwing a hit, in key 3rd pairing roles where he routinely looked awful in the painfully awful defensive system that Sullivan loves and many Pens defensemen struggle in.

Correct. What the Pens have is a bad fit with Graves (Sully + coaching, pairing partners).

I don't think Graves is as bad as a lot of these posts are making him out to be. The tools and size are there. Graves eats mins and PKs as advertises. Issue is he's been shoehorned in Pittsburgh - Graves doesn't jive with Letang or Karlsson and playing him on 3rd line doesn't make much sense given the contract. He would be best suited somewhere else. It was a bad read by Dubas to give him a big contract in Pittsburgh. I still think he's a top-4 guy, just somewhere else.

As for the trade proposal...yes, it's true that both players need a change of scenery. But I don't want to take on 6 years of Kotkaniemi just to get rid of Graves. I'd much rather find Graves a suitor (a system where he actually fits) and retain some cash to get the deal done. If we can't do that, I'd rather just keep him. Also, as other people have pointed out, I don't think Carolina is the right place for Graves.

Eller to Kotkaniemi is lateral at best (and imo, a downgrade). And Eller to L4 just blocks Ponomaryov.

 

[hotpaws]

no one's touching Graves unless an equally bad contract is coming back and Kotkaniemi's isn't it

maybe if the Pens pkg all of the Dubsters brutal big money moves from last off season EK/Jarry/Graves they'd have a better chance of getting rid of them . lol

 

[Honour Over Glory]

no one's touching Graves unless an equally bad contract is coming back and Kotkaniemi's isn't it

maybe if the Pens pkg all of the Dubsters brutal big money moves from last off season EK/Jarry/Graves they'd have a better chance of getting rid of them . lol

You foliage fans need to let shit go.

 

[hotpaws]

You foliage fans need to let shit go.

we'll talk again in a couple of years after you realize Sully isn't responsible for Dumbass brutal moves

 

[Honour Over Glory]

we'll talk again in a couple of years after you realize Sully isn't responsible for Dumbass brutal moves

How about we talk never because you don’t watch the Penguins often enough to know he is the problem for a lot of the Penguins’ issues.

Because apparently, by your logic, 3 GM’s made dumbass moves while Mike Sullivan, poor ole innocent Mikey Sully, is just getting railroaded by 3 GM’s.

 

[hotpaws]

How about we talk never because you don’t watch the Penguins often enough to know he is the problem for a lot of the Penguins’ issues.

Because apparently, by your logic, 3 GM’s made dumbass moves while Mike Sullivan, poor ole innocent Mikey Sully, is just getting railroaded by 3 GM’s.

by my logic both the GM and coach can be bad

 

[Honour Over Glory]

by my logic both the GM and coach can be bad

Your new GM didn't fix anything, he went and signed Reaves to a 3yr deal at 36 and another one of his moves at the deadline was to bring back a bloke the GM you hate traded for in his 2nd last year as a Leafs GM.

Graves had moments where he looked good and then mediocre and then pretty bad. He was all over the place, it's like the coaching staff had no idea where he fit.

 

[hotpaws]

Your new GM didn't fix anything, he went and signed Reaves to a 3yr deal at 36 and another one of his moves at the deadline was to bring back a bloke the GM you hate traded for in his 2nd last year as a Leafs GM.

Graves had moments where he looked good and then mediocre and then pretty bad. He was all over the place, it's like the coaching staff had no idea where he fit.

-Graves - grossly overpaid bottom pair D signed to a 6yrs x 4.5m
-Jarry , - 5yrs x 5.375m
-trading a 1st/2nd for EK who still had 4 yrs left at a 10m ca[ hit
-trading a 3rd for Smith who had 2yrs at 5m left of his deal
-then there's the smaller moves like giving Accari 2m x 3yrs which also failed along with pretty much every move Dumbass made including floating how he wanted an epic haul for Guentzel then when most of the teams went elsewhere settling for a 2nd and a few mid tier prospects

but hey you got me by Tre giving Reaves a 3yr deal which is can almost all be buried and think trading a 3rd for Boosh was a gotcha moment , lol , hell the Accari contract by itself was worse than pretty much any of Tre's moves so far

but this being said , i couldn't care less if they fired Tre before i finish this post since i don't follow the sport to worship the GM of my team

the thing i find funny about many of the Pitt fans is they don't seem to comprehend that even though they might be right and Sully is a bad coach that still doesn't change the fact your core has aged out and can't get it done anymore and your GM is an incompetent self promoting bitch

 

[Honour Over Glory]

-Graves - grossly overpaid bottom pair D signed to a 6yrs x 4.5m
-Jarry , - 5yrs x 5.375m
-trading a 1st/2nd for EK who still had 4 yrs left at a 10m ca[ hit
-trading a 3rd for Smith who had 2yrs at 5m left of his deal
-then there's the smaller moves like giving Accari 2m x 3yrs which also failed along with pretty much every move Dumbass made including floating how he wanted an epic haul for Guentzel then when most of the teams went elsewhere settling for a 2nd and a few mid tier prospects

but hey you got me by Tre giving Reaves a 3yr deal which is can almost all be buried and think trading a 3rd for Boosh was a gotcha moment , lol , hell the Accari contract by itself was worse than pretty much any of Tre's moves so far

but this being said , i couldn't care less if they fired Tre before i finish this post since i don't follow the sport to worship the GM of my team

the thing i find funny about many of the Pitt fans is they don't seem to comprehend that even though they might be right and Sully is a bad coach that still doesn't change the fact your core has aged out and can't get it done anymore and your GM is an incompetent self promoting bitch

At the end of the day, your current GM screwed Gaudreau (who wanted to say, was lowballed heavily in negotiations and the damage was done) which had him leave and made Tkachuk not want to stay and pulled one of the worst deals for the Flames.

A real genius.

Graves will either rebound or he will play another year to burn out a year of his contract to make the buyout sting less or they send him to a team that has cap space and retain with an add-on. Its happened to many Gm's over the years.

Also you're a leaves fan, why the hell do you give a rat's ass about a deal idea discussion between the Pens and Canes? You literally came in here to shit all over Dubas, like most Leaves fans love to do any chance they get it seems. Nothing better to do? You leaves fans have been bitter exes with Dubas for over a year now, move on.

 

[hotpaws]

At the end of the day, your current GM screwed Gaudreau (who wanted to say, was lowballed heavily in negotiations and the damage was done) which had him leave and made Tkachuk not want to stay and pulled one of the worst deals for the Flames.

A real genius.

Graves will either rebound or he will play another year to burn out a year of his contract to make the buyout sting less or they send him to a team that has cap space and retain with an add-on. Its happened to many Gm's over the years.

as i said i couldn't give a f*** about Tre unlike yourself who feels the need to defend an incompetent GM and if you want to talk about his his Calgary tenure then go speak Flames fans but i will say lol at low balling Johnny Hockey

and sure no biggie you'll just buy Graves out of the last 4yrs of his deal and retain millions on Jarry and EK to get rid of them as well and we can blame Shanny for all Dubies f*** ups on the Pens since it is known the Dube is perfect , just ask him

 

[Honour Over Glory]

as i said i couldn't give a f*** about Tre unlike yourself who feels the need to defend an incompetent GM and if you want to talk about his his Calgary tenure then go speak Flames fans but i will say lol at low balling Johnny Hockey

and sure no biggie you'll just buy Graves out of the last 4yrs of his deal and retain millions on Jarry and EK to get rid of them as well and we can blame Shanny for all Dubies f*** ups on the Pens since it is known the Dube is perfect , just ask him

Fascinating thought process.

 

[hotpaws]

Fascinating thought process.

yes it was fascinating you thought buying Graves out of the last 4 yrs of his deal was no biggie