Kotkaniemi 5 point game

[didimentionlarseller]

Good for Kotka he’s not as bad as made out to be or as good as the offer sheet made it seem

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Guess he's not as bad as some people thought...

Sam Gagner once had an 8 point game.

 

[Stubu]

Playing as a 2C and actually being one isn’t the same thing. But yes I agree his contract isn’t an issue to me.

The scoring you'd expect from a 2C was missing for the first half of the season, but he was doing everything else well enough. Playmaking, defense, forechecking, backchecking, face-offs.

He's actually slightly outscoring his Habs replacement Dvorak right now. 12+18=30 in 61 vs 10+18=28 in 63. Both are 52% on the FO. Plusminus is obviously a line/team stat and very basic at that, but FWIW, they are at +9 and -12 respectively. Haven't looked at their advanced stats.

Kotkaniemi's weakest point, skating, has visibly improved from last season. If the monkey is now off his back and the scoring continues, his future in Canes is looking okay. In any case they still have next season to see what's what for using the worst case option, the cheap buy-out, if somehow he ends up untradeable. But the way he's trending now, the more likely outcome is they keep him as 2C. He's still work in progress though, no mistake about that.

 

[beowulf]

Miracles do happen.

Weren't you the guy who guaranteed the Habs would draft Wright? Lol.

Kotkaniemi has 23 points in his last 30 games.
Suzuki has 17 points in his last 30 games.

Ohhh gawd please...comparing a guy playing on a top NHL team vs a guy playing on basically an AHL team due to all the injuries but sure.

 

[SlafySZN]

I love how dude sneaked a kotkaniemie/suzuki stats comparison and then tried to act like he never compared them, lol.

 

[SlafySZN]

The scoring you'd expect from a 2C was missing for the first half of the season, but he was doing everything else well enough. Playmaking, defense, forechecking, backchecking, face-offs.

He's actually slightly outscoring his Habs replacement Dvorak right now. 12+18=30 in 61 vs 10+18=28 in 63. Both are 52% on the FO. Plusminus is obviously a line/team stat and very basic at that, but FWIW, they are at +9 and -12 respectively. Haven't looked at their advanced stats.

Kotkaniemi's weakest point, skating, has visibly improved from last season. If the monkey is now off his back and the scoring continues, his future in Canes is looking okay. In any case they still have next season to see what's what for using the worst case option, the cheap buy-out, if somehow he ends up untradeable. But the way he's trending now, the more likely outcome is they keep him as 2C. He's still work in progress though, no mistake about that.

Of course i’d take Kotkaniemi over Dvorak just because KK is not done developing and he’ll get better while Dvorak is what he is. But the comparison about their stats is not that fair, Dvorak plays with guys like Rem Pitlick and Jesse Ylonen who are AHL players on a bottom of the league team so the +- stats is also not very representative.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Sam Gagner once had an 8 point game.

Sometimes, it pays to read the thread before trying to display your original wit.

Sam Gagner had an 8 point game once

I remember when Sam Gagner put up 6

Nope. Sam Gagner had a 8 point game.

8 points on his team's 8 goals. Sam Gagner better than Gretzky, as that's one thing Gretzky has never done.

 

[Stubu]

Miracles do happen.


Ohhh gawd please...comparing a guy playing on a top NHL team vs a guy playing on basically an AHL team due to all the injuries but sure.

There's something about "rising to the occasion" too, if you're being honest. And your comparison pairs should be Aho vs Suzuki and Koko Miami vs Dvorak, wouldn't they?

 

[Stubu]

Of course i’d take Kotkaniemi over Dvorak just because KK is not done developing and he’ll get better while Dvorak is what he is. But the comparison about their stats is not that fair, Dvorak plays with guys like Rem Pitlick and Jesse Ylonen who are AHL players on a bottom of the league team so the +- stats is also not very representative.

That is a fair point. Canes are firing at all cylinders right now. The team spirit must be catching. Just look at how Gostisbehere is having the time of his life. (And Turbo got the monkey off his back too. Rod the Bod was actually smiling at him on the bench. That doesn't happen often.)

 

[banks]

He's still one of the most overpaid guys in the whole league.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

He's still one of the most overpaid guys in the whole league.

lol he really isn't though

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

He's still one of the most overpaid guys in the whole league.

Yet no canes fans feel that way. Funny how that works.

 

[beowulf]

There's something about "rising to the occasion" too, if you're being honest. And your comparison pairs should be Aho vs Suzuki and Koko Miami vs Dvorak, wouldn't they?

You mean Suzuki? The problem is when you are one of the few good players left with the likes of Caufield, Dach, etc etc being out there is more focus on you and scoring becomes a crap load harder.

 

[Stickpucker]

He's still one of the most overpaid guys in the whole league.

Jonathan Druin
Mike Hofferman
Christiano Dvorak
Joshua Andersen

 

[Stickpucker]

Miracles do happen.


Ohhh gawd please...comparing a guy playing on a top NHL team vs a guy playing on basically an AHL team due to all the injuries but sure.

le blur et blanc et rouge injuries:

Monahan: Cap dump paid to take
Price: Knew he been gone a whiles
Byron: Meh

Not really missing muches

 

[Svechhammer]

Did you all know that Sam Gagner once had an 8 point game?

 

[banks]

Jonathan Druin
Mike Hofferman
Christiano Dvorak
Joshua Andersen

No argument from me that those guys also belong on the list. I'm a Leafs fan.

 

[DJB]

Sens fans 2022: We'd give our left nut for some hope
Sens fans 2023: Our nut finally left and now we have hope

Exactly lol

 

[Stubu]

He's still one of the most overpaid guys in the whole league.

You don't understand how offer sheets work. Canes have a silly cheap option of buy-out until next season's end. As the worst case scenario.

If he proves to be a 2C, and it's now only the scoring missing from that, but getting there, "overpaid" looks silly next season.

You can appreciate good value where you see it.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Ohhh gawd please...comparing a guy playing on a top NHL team vs a guy playing on basically an AHL team due to all the injuries but sure.

Suzuki got 7-8 mins more ice time per game in that 30 game sample. I'd imagine that at least partially offsets the difference in team quality.

63 point pace at 14:02 TOI
46 point pace at 21:23 TOI

I don't think the differences in teammates is enough to close that gap. Suzuki is actually 6th on the Habs in PPG over their last 30 games. Kotkaniemi has been pretty clearly better over that span.

I'm not arguing that Kotkaniemi is better than Suzuki, or even will become better. I'm just pointing out that he's been really good for the last few months.

 

[Stubu]

No argument from me that those guys also belong on the list. I'm a Leafs fan.

You don't have to announce you're a Leafs fan to misspell player names. (Sorry, sorry. It's usually the francophones who get caught by this but you managed it.)

Dvorak for one, in the Habs context, is scoring lower than Koko Miami for this season. And only one of them is trending up.

 

[Joe McGrath]

He's still one of the most overpaid guys in the whole league.

There are 30 forwards on non ELCs making $4.5- $5 mil (cap hit).

Amongst those players he is 15th in scoring. Super overpaid though…..

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I agree with your premise that he’s a better player than some folks want to give him credit for, but let’s be honest here… he’s a 2C in the same sense that Travis Boyd is a 1C. His actual level of play would have him on the 3rd line of most teams.

The Canes’ lineup conundrum is that they have the ultimate 3C prototype in Jordan Staal, and a gaping hole at 2C because they refused to overpay Trocheck. Along comes Kotkaniemi… you can’t play him at 3C because promoting Staal is asking for trouble, so by default he lands on the 2nd line with wingers who play above his head. What’s more, he gets a fair amount of PP time — up till now, he was part of a really bad 2nd unit, but Gostisbehere at QB seems to have made a huge difference there. So he’s overslotted, but picking up points appropriate to that slot.

What’s interesting is that out of all this, Kotkaniemi has shown signs of developing into a nice utility player or “glue guy”. He facilitates his line without driving it, which is the next best thing to being a bona fide 2C. At his age, he has a chance to keep learning the art of defensive hockey and replace Staal as a PK fixture, and he’s projecting to be a similar 2C/3C tweener in his prime.

This is the correct take.

But we don't actually care what the correct take is. We want to annoy Montreal fans, for lots of different reasons, and this is a really, really, really good way to do it.

Also: aparently Samwise Gamgee once had an 8 goal game. Never even knew he played hockey.

 

[Stickpucker]

Even Sam Gagner (means winner) scored 8 points in a game once!

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Did you all know that Sam Gagner once had an 8 point game?

Where did you hear such a random piece of trivia as that?

You don't understand how offer sheets work. Canes have a silly cheap option of buy-out until next season's end. As the worst case scenario.

If he proves to be a 2C, and it's now only the scoring missing from that, but getting there, "overpaid" looks silly next season.

You can appreciate good value where you see it.

It’s not just until next season, it’s until 2026. As long as they buy him out before the start of the 26-27 season his buyout is only 850k as he’d still be under 26. That is carried across 8 years, which isn’t great, but the cap hit is so low.

Anyone who thinks it’s a bad contract truly has no clue. The canes are taking a chance on him developing further and if that doesn’t happen they have a pretty easy out.

This is the correct take.

But we don't actually care what the correct take is. We want to annoy Montreal fans, for lots of different reasons, and this is a really, really, really good way to do it.

Also: aparently Samwise Gamgee once had an 8 goal game. Never even knew he played hockey.

Isn’t that the guy from game of thrones? He plays hockey?