Knowing what we know - who do you draft in a re-draft? 18 yr old Crosby or 18 yr old McDavid?

[Three On Zero]

I'll take Crosby even with foresight that he would have some injury issues. The guy is the best player the league has seen since Gretzky/Lemieux. McDavid is no slouch, but he's just missing an element to his game that Crosby has

 

[Dion TheFluff]

if you like a generational cherry picker who will put up a ton of points but only cares about individual accolades, than McDavid is your guy.

If you like a clutch player that plays a game committed to winning and is a real good pro, than Crosby is your guy.

I know who I would pick.

 

[Zero Requiem]

One of these players is going to turn the Big 4 into a Big 5, and it's not Crosby.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I feel like a lot of people forget just how many cheapshot artists there were between the lockout til around 2012. McDavid’s speed, his main attribute, would have been taken away from him back then via deliberate injury. Matt Cooke ruined how many careers? That just really doesn’t exist anymore (for the better) and allows for more wide open offensive plays from elite talent.

People forget how different the game was for much of Crosby's career. Just the constant blatant head shots and cheap shots that were so prevalent. McDavid certainly wouldn't be allowed to dance around every night unimpeded the way he is now. That's my biggest reason for taking Crosby, he is suited for any era.

 

[centipede2233]

Not only is McDavid a better hockey player, he's also been incredibly healthy where as Crosby was made of glass early in his career.

To be fair, it was a different NHL in crosby’s early years where headshots were much more common.

 

[the_fan]

I agree with this. And if your superstars are high powered offensive juggernauts with not much for defence. They better have top 6 players to play with that have a complete 200 foot game, kinda like eichel who has stone for instance. P.Kane had toews and hossa. 2 way beasts always find a way to a cup or cup final…barkov most recently, kopitar, Bergeron, Datsyuk,

Eichel was actually pretty good defensively in their cup run

 

[Caps8112]

im sure its been said but Mcdavids trophy case might look different if he wasnt on a completely mismanaged team his entire career. It is the ultimate team game and he has never had a Number 1 Dman or a top 20 goalie. You cannot win without some combo of that. If you really look at his forwards in his career, outside of draisaitl and recently RNH it is pretty depressing. If im going on the player, no team awards it has to be McD but getting Crosby isnt far behind and you really cant go wrong. McD cant control who drafted him and how awful the organizations management has been for 15 years.

 

[Midnight Judges]

There really is zero rational basis for Crosby anymore. Just say he's your guy. It's not a great argument, but it's the only one you've got.

Art Rosses
McDavid: 5
Crosby: 2

Harts
McDavid: 3
Crosby: 2

Pearsons
McDavid: 4
Crosby: 3

Rockets
McDavid: 1
Crosby: 2

 

[Caps8112]

be interesting when McD wins a cup whether on the oilers or somewhere else. A lot of the crosby comments on here basically say well he wins championships. So when McD wins and has crosby beat in every other category what will be said then? Not hating on Crosby, he is amazing.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Anyone saying it’s an easy choice is out to lunch. Both will be all time greats ranked very close to each other.

McDavid is a better offensive player. But Crosby played a much better two-way game. Depends what you like

 

[Zero Requiem]

Where does the idea that Crosby has a great two-way game come from? It's not true now, and it certainly wasn't true back when was the best player in the league (think 06-07).

Some of you people talk about him like he has the two-way game of Pavel Datsyuk.

 

[the_fan]

Where does the idea that Crosby has a great two-way game come from? It's not true now, and it certainly wasn't true back when was the best player in the league (think 06-07).

Some of you people talk about him like he has the two-way game of Pavel Datsyuk.

No one saying Crosby has a great two way game, but he actually cares about playing defense and back checks because that’s what it takes to win the cup, where I see McDavid coasting near blue line waiting for breakout pass to go on offense instead of going all the way back and helping out his D as a center.

There was one shift in this playoffs where McDavid came off the bench on a line change as the opposition entered the Oilers zone. All McDavid did is watched while slowly coasting near the blue line hoping his D would get the puck and give it to him instead of hustling back and playing defense himself, and Oilers got scored on. Things like that make the difference between winning and losing

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

So one guy who's won a ton of individual awards and has 3 cups and has an Olympic gold ot winning goal vs a guy with a ton of individual awards? Hmm very hard indeed

so when Crosby wins all these "team awards", its cause of Crosby

but when his team struggles to win a round or make the playoffs (like Crosby hasn't done since 2018), it's the team around him that's the problem...am I right?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

No one saying Crosby has a great two way game, but he actually cares about playing defense and back checks because that’s what it takes to win the cup, where I see McDavid coasting near blue line waiting for breakout pass to go on offense instead of going all the way back and helping out his D as a center.

There was one shift in this playoffs where McDavid came off the bench in a line change as the opposition entered the Oilers zone. All McDavid did is watched while slowly coasting near the blue line hoping his D would get the puck and give it to him instead of hustling back and playing defense himself, and Oilers got scored on. Things like that make the difference between winning and losing

ahhh yes, the old "Crosby cares about play defense" narrative

in the 2016 playoffs, the year Kessel was robbed the Conn Smythe in favor of Crosby...Crosby was on the ice for the 2nd most GA on his team at ES, including being -1 in goal differential

sick defense

 

[the_fan]

ahhh yes, the old "Crosby cares about play defense" narrative

in the 2016 playoffs, the year Kessel was robbed the Conn Smythe in favor of Crosby...Crosby was on the ice for the 2nd most GA on his team at ES, including being -1 in goal differential

sick defense

You can’t win if you don’t care about playing defense. Just go through all the cup winners. I’m not saying everyone are great two way players, but they do hustle at both ends of the ice. Look what Eichel did this year. My team won the cup last year and I watched MacKinnon who’s not exactly a two way center, but he hustled his ass off back checking. I saw him block a Kucherov shot with seconds remaining in game 6 when Avs were up by one and that helped them close the game out and win the cup.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

You can’t win if you don’t care about playing defense. Just go through all the cup winners. I’m not saying everyone are great two way players, but they do hustle at both ends of the ice. Look what Eichel did this year. My team won the cup last year and I watched MacKinnon who’s not exactly a two way center, but he hustled his ass off back checking. I saw him block a Kucherov shot with seconds remaining in game 6 when Avs were up by one and that helped them close the game out and win the cup.

so your evidence is "I saw this player backcheck in a game...great defense!"

I literally showed you stats where Crosby finished 2nd worst on his team in GA...during a Cup run...

 

[the_fan]

so your evidence is "I saw this player backcheck in a game...great defense!"

I literally showed you stats where Crosby finished 2nd worst on his team in GA...during a Cup run...

I don’t care about those stats. Crosby made a big enough difference and impacted the game in the playoffs in a way I haven’t seen McDavid do. I haven’t seen McDavid impact the game defensively at all. All he cares about is putting up points, and majority of his offense comes on power plays. He’s a definition of one dimensional player

 

[Midnight Judges]

I don’t care about those stats. Crosby made a big enough difference and impacted the game in the playoffs in a way I haven’t seen McDavid do.

You think 65 point / 21 goal pace crap defense Crosby had more of a positive impact on his team than 169 point / 51 goal pace McDavid.

Wow.

 

[the_fan]

You think 65 point / 21 goal pace crap defense Crosby had more of a positive impact on his team than 169 point / 51 goal pace McDavid.

Wow.

Points aren’t everything. There are more ways you can impact the game. Again just go by each cup winning team and compare the star players. Those players on cup winning teams may not have as many points as McDavid but they impacted the game in other ways. Again, a simple block shot can impact a game in a playoff series. I’m not sure if I’ve seen McDavid block a shot

 

[pi314]

Lol now we got this debate down to single 10 second clips to prove Crosbys dominance over McGoat ?

You don't want to get into video clips , you will lose that one guy .....

No I’m saying that I see the same excuses used for cherry pickers in the 35 years I watched hockey.

It’s always blame the team.

I remember game 7 against Ovechkin where he had 2 defensive turnovers, both leading to goals, in a game they lost 2-0.

Of course, it’s the team’s fault.

It’s not just points.

McDavid will win when he does the little things too.
Go watch him turnover the puck against Winnipeg right before they get eliminated a few seasons ago.

It’s not just all the team’s fault.

so your evidence is "I saw this player backcheck in a game...great defense!"

I literally showed you stats where Crosby finished 2nd worst on his team in GA...during a Cup run...

And your evidence is to randomly cherry pick a small sample size?

I watched every single one of those games.

But tell me how much you know because you arbitrarily picked that as your hill to die on.

I swear most of this site has never played a game before.

They just sort by stats and think it’s fantasy football where a 300 yard QB did better than a 250 yard QB.

 

[Video Nasty]

be interesting when McD wins a cup whether on the oilers or somewhere else. A lot of the crosby comments on here basically say well he wins championships. So when McD wins and has crosby beat in every other category what will be said then? Not hating on Crosby, he is amazing.

“Oh well, it’s just one Cup, Crosby has three. Oh it’s just one Conn Smythe, Crosby has two.”

And so on until McDavid equals or even surpasses that element of Crosby’s resume. Eventually, the only thing Crosby will have left in such a comparison is the same old tired Peter Pan Neverland fantasy about what could have been if he kept up his pace from 99 games spread out over 3 separate seasons.

Oh, and of course the ever valuable fairy tales known as “The Golden Goal” and its companion piece, “Crosby the Defensive Wizard”.

The detractors are unimaginative people. They have some ammo in reserve for a few years, but are not thinking about when McDavid becomes the winner they claim he isn’t.

About a dozen years from now, when McDavid is firmly entrenched in a new Big Five, all but the most diehard Crosby acolytes will be sobbing during the retirement tour and claiming it was such an honor to witness him play over the last twenty years.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

Crosby has led his club to three Cups. My team has no Cups. McDavid has no Cups. Definitely want Crosby.

How do you know Edmonton has cups with Crosby and no Malkin?

It's McDavid. Close this.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Watching the same tired people make the same tired arguments about the same one single player is very entertaining to me...

How can folks dedicate 80% of their time on these boards and COUNTLESS hours over a decade.... googling and formulating every grasping argument to critique one singular player that clearly brings them intense feelings of anger and/or sadness. I'm sure there's an interesting case study to be written here somewhere.

 

[Caps8112]

Watching the same tired people make the same tired arguments about the same one single player is very entertaining to me...

How can folks dedicate 80% of their time on these boards and COUNTLESS hours over a decade.... googling and formulating every grasping argument to critique one singular player that clearly brings them intense feelings of anger and/or sadness. I'm sure there's an interesting case study to be written here somewhere.

actually find it interesting. seeing a lot of the same posters for the last 15 years or so debating ovi and crosby and now mcd and crosby.

 

[PensandCaps]

Does Crosby still get his concussions?

so when Crosby wins all these "team awards", its cause of Crosby

but when his team struggles to win a round or make the playoffs (like Crosby hasn't done since 2018), it's the team around him that's the problem...am I right?

Not really. Crosby was awful vs the Islanders and Montreal and that's why they lost. Rangers series is a different story.