Speculation: Klingberg or Kadri ?

[jkutswings]

All i want is to make the playoffs, eliminate the Leafs in round 1 then i'm happy lol

Do the NHL record books even count a victory over Toronto as a playoff win?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Do the NHL record books even count a victory over Toronto as a playoff win?

It's just beneath the Stanley Cup as far as accolades go.

Stanley Cup
Beating Toronto in the 1st round and disappointing millions of fans
Making the finals
Making the conference finals
Presidents trophy
Best in conference
Best in division

 

[MBH]

Nobody thought LA was a playoff team last year, but they got Danault and Arvidsson and some kids stepped up and they made the playoffs.
Shit can happen in a bad division.
And while our division isn't bad, with what's in store for Boston, we're clearly much better suited to leapfrog them this year than we were last year.
Unfortunately for the playoff crowd, the Atlantic is pretty stacked. It's possible that Washington falls out. Or maybe Pittsburgh. But in general, it feels like there's too much talent in the Atlantic to allow a so-so team to take a wildcard spot from our division.
The other issue Detroit may face is that Ottawa and Buffalo should also be improved.

I'm thrilled we got Copp and Chiarot.
These guys are a step up from the Filppula/Nemeth signings.
They're not superstars, but they're good players near the top of their game.

I think this team stays in the hunt for a wildcard spot until at least the All-Star break before things start to fall apart.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Nobody thought LA was a playoff team last year, but they got Danault and Arvidsson and some kids stepped up and they made the playoffs.
Shit can happen in a bad division.
And while our division isn't bad, with what's in store for Boston, we're clearly much better suited to leapfrog them this year than we were last year.
Unfortunately for the playoff crowd, the Atlantic is pretty stacked. It's possible that Washington falls out. Or maybe Pittsburgh. But in general, it feels like there's too much talent in the Atlantic to allow a so-so team to take a wildcard spot from our division.
The other issue Detroit may face is that Ottawa and Buffalo should also be improved.

I'm thrilled we got Copp and Chiarot.
These guys are a step up from the Filppula/Nemeth signings.
They're not superstars, but they're good players near the top of their game.

I think this team stays in the hunt for a wildcard spot until at least the All-Star break before things start to fall apart.

Buffalo has Eric Comrie and Craig Anderson in net. That's easily a bottom 5, maybe even bottom 3 goaltending tandem. Their defense is not really good defensively. And they have 5 NHL forwards worth a damn that aren't rookies. Buffalo overachieved last year to hit 75 points. I don't expect them to be much better than that next year.

Ottawa added Giroux and DeBrincat. Both good additions but is DeBrincat a 40 goal guy away from Patrick Kane? Is Giroux still a point per game scorer? And same as Buffalo their current top defenseman isn't very good at defense. Talbot is a clear upgrade on Matt Murray but on paper Ottawa has improved less than people on the mains believe. They're probably closer to an 85-90 point team. I'm betting they finish between 9th and 11th in the conference. Still, they'll steal points from Toronto as a divisional rival more than anything.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

All i want is to make the playoffs, eliminate the Leafs in round 1 then i'm happy lol

If we do upset someone, I hope it’s Tampa. More on ice bad blood for sure and will be a bigger mental boon of slaying the giant. Will be tough, but if we manage to sneak in, I think we will look more comfortable playing playoff hockey than most would think. Given a fortuitous matchup and potential injuries I think this team is capable of winning a round should we make it. Also, when I’m staying there for parts of the year their drivers piss me off and they don’t deserve nice things.

I also just get a gut feeling we have one more big move coming in way of a trade. And I think Yzerman may surprise us with the caliber of player we get. Our prospect cupboard is stocked like an obese doomsday prepper’s fridge. Given how many of their timelines coincide, no one outside of Edvinsson and Kasper should be off the table.

 

[Bench]

All i want is to make the playoffs, eliminate the Leafs in round 1 then i'm happy lol

This is a good dream. I share your dream.

 

[The Flying Octopus]

All i want is to make the playoffs, eliminate the Leafs in round 1 then i'm happy lol

Imagine that. That would so be the maple syrups.. I’d pour syrup all over myself if that happened. Such a leaf move too.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

If we do upset someone, I hope it’s Tampa. More on ice bad blood for sure and will be a bigger mental boon of slaying the giant. Will be tough, but if we manage to sneak in, I think we will look more comfortable playing playoff hockey than most would think. Given a fortuitous matchup and potential injuries I think this team is capable of winning a round should we make it. Also, when I’m staying there for parts of the year their drivers piss me off and they don’t deserve nice things.

I also just get a gut feeling we have one more big move coming in way of a trade. And I think Yzerman may surprise us with the caliber of player we get. Our prospect cupboard is stocked like an obese doomsday prepper’s fridge. Given how many of their timelines coincide, no one outside of Edvinsson and Kasper should be off the table.

I don't know man. Detroit being a surprise entrant into the 2023 playoffs as a wildcard. #2 Toronto taking on #7 Detroit. Detroit thoroughly beats Toronto in 5 as Matt Murray poops himself everytime he sees Raymond make a move at the blueline. Seider shuts down Matthews and Edvinsson makes Nylander cower everytime he steps on the ice.

I think that would break HFBoards. This forum is powered by the salty tears of every leafs fan. If they lose to Detroit that tank will burst.

 

[lomekian]

Color me skeptical. I think it’s crazy to put on ANY player that they’re worth tanking a season for. Hell, Nathan MacKinnon was supposed to be that guy and he eventually did become that guy, but he got that 6M extension for a reason. MacKinnon was a 50-60 point C for several years.

Aged 22 he put up 97 points in 74 games, and is now at 26 a Stanley Cup winning superstar with a career PPG better than 1 and about 1.25 in the playoffs.

I get the point you are making, but there are very few worse examples you could have picked!

 

[stillwater]

Chris Ilitch also said that the Tigers rebuild is over.

Steve Yzerman isn't the GM of the Tigers

 

[stillwater]

The games are going to matter, at least for awhile this year. I'm looking forward to seeing the work ethic now that these players realize they're not being thrown to the lions every single night.

The ability to win can change everything.

 

[haulinbass]

It's pretty entertaining when people say the Wings should be tanking more than they are because the current path that Yzerman has chosen is "too risky." As if further tanking, with bad lottery odds, a good chance at alienating your star players, cementing your franchise as a place for free agents to avoid, and further pushing your fan base away. etc. etc.... is not more risky.

Risk.

Yeah.

Detroit is taking about the least risky path forward there is, given all the realities in the modern NHL. If you want the tank to continue, please come up with a better argument than "risk."

You act like this same move forward could never be taken if a team chose to tank 1-2 more seasons. Drafting good players attracts good players. Why do you think we got landed the guys we did this off-season. Is it because we tanked and got Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, etc. If we didn't tank and didn't get those players how would we have attracted these free agents? Maybe if they would have kept Helm, etc and kept plugging the roster to avoid tanking these last few years top free agents would have been drawn to that?

So, finishing bad and drafting good has led to some good things for us thus far you would agree, obviously? With that said, how can you possibly give anyone crap that would prefer to see the team continue that for another season or two? How is it that crazy of an idea to you?

 

[haulinbass]

Aged 22 he put up 97 points in 74 games, and is now at 26 a Stanley Cup winning superstar with a career PPG better than 1 and about 1.25 in the playoffs.

I get the point you are making, but there are very few worse examples you could have picked!

I bet Colorado fans regret tanking after winning the cup.

I would tank for 10 years if the end result was I could watch Mackinnon and company every night. Mackinnon taking a minute to hit full stride was a blessing, it aloud Colorado a lot of cap savings.

Oh wait I do, I adopted Avs as my #2 team 3 seasons ago and watch most of their games. Not because I like anything to do with Colorado, but because these young highly drafted superstars make up the most exciting team I have ever seen.

 

[heyfolks]

That's cashing in on a post season CRAZY money for KADRI.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Think about It, we were in the playoffs come November last year with Danny Dekeyser, Marc staal, and Thomas Greiss lol.

We added Perron, Copp, Kubalik, Husso, healthy Vrana + maybe Edvinsson. I have faith we make the playoffs this year

 

[StargateSG1]

Think about It, we were in the playoffs come November last year with Danny Dekeyser, Marc staal, and Thomas Greiss lol.

We added Perron, Copp, Kubalik, Husso, healthy Vrana + maybe Edvinsson. I have faith we make the playoffs this year

Really? We were? With most teams (Boston) playing 5 less games, not to mention lots of teams playing with ghost rosters for a long time due to covid outbreaks?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Aged 22 he put up 97 points in 74 games, and is now at 26 a Stanley Cup winning superstar with a career PPG better than 1 and about 1.25 in the playoffs.

I get the point you are making, but there are very few worse examples you could have picked!

No, I picked him for a reason. He was "Franchise Saver v 4.0" and it even took him four years as the team built up around him to bust out. He was as big a hit as you could hope for in the draft and half of these assholes that rip every pick would have been clamoring for him to be gone or that he wasn't a true 1C by year 2. The bigger point was upper end talents you should be patient with.

 

[jkutswings]

He was as big a hit as you could hope for in the draft and half of these assholes that rip every pick would have been clamoring for him to be gone or that he wasn't a true 1C by year 2.

We are a motley crew...

 

[jaster]

You act like this same move forward could never be taken if a team chose to tank 1-2 more seasons. Drafting good players attracts good players. Why do you think we got landed the guys we did this off-season. Is it because we tanked and got Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, etc. If we didn't tank and didn't get those players how would we have attracted these free agents? Maybe if they would have kept Helm, etc and kept plugging the roster to avoid tanking these last few years top free agents would have been drawn to that?

So, finishing bad and drafting good has led to some good things for us thus far you would agree, obviously? With that said, how can you possibly give anyone crap that would prefer to see the team continue that for another season or two? How is it that crazy of an idea to you?

Yeah, no one is saying the tanking up until this off-season was wrong. Haven't seen a single person even imply that. And drafting good players does not attract good players. Having good players on the NHL roster helps attract good players. As does having Steve Yzerman as GM. Several of the new signings talked about Yzerman as a big part of coming to Detroit. No one mentioned Simon Edvinsson.

Regardless, we did it. Detroit did it. They did the tank, they acquired the good players in the draft, and now we've attracted some decent UFAs. It's time to build up. Tanking at this point, with new young firepower and the team on the upswing, would be potentially disastrous. Detroit would risk alienating their core, creating a losing culture for the youngsters, and drive away UFAs.

There's a point at which tanking has to cease. We're there. The risks of further tanking outweigh the benefits.

Fin.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Yeah, no one is saying the tanking up until this off-season was wrong. Haven't seen a single person even imply that. And drafting good players does not attract good players. Having good players on the NHL roster helps attract good players. As does having Steve Yzerman as GM. Several of the new signings talked about Yzerman as a big part of coming to Detroit. No one mentioned Simon Edvinsson.

Regardless, we did it. Detroit did it. They did the tank, they acquired the good players in the draft, and now we've attracted some decent UFAs. It's time to build up. Tanking at this point, with new young firepower and the team on the upswing, would be potentially disastrous. Detroit would risk alienating their core, creating a losing culture for the youngsters, and drive away UFAs.

There's a point at which tanking has to cease. We're there. The risks of further tanking outweigh the benefits.

Fin.

 

[MBH]

Buffalo has Eric Comrie and Craig Anderson in net. That's easily a bottom 5, maybe even bottom 3 goaltending tandem. Their defense is not really good defensively. And they have 5 NHL forwards worth a damn that aren't rookies. Buffalo overachieved last year to hit 75 points. I don't expect them to be much better than that next year.

Ottawa added Giroux and DeBrincat. Both good additions but is DeBrincat a 40 goal guy away from Patrick Kane? Is Giroux still a point per game scorer? And same as Buffalo their current top defenseman isn't very good at defense. Talbot is a clear upgrade on Matt Murray but on paper Ottawa has improved less than people on the mains believe. They're probably closer to an 85-90 point team. I'm betting they finish between 9th and 11th in the conference. Still, they'll steal points from Toronto as a divisional rival more than anything.

The Sabres have all kinds of players who look pretty good right now.
Up front, they have one of the deepest forward groups in the NHL.
Their old and busted guys - like Okposo and Skinner - are good again.
Guys like Tuch and Olofsson are solid. Tage Thompson took a big step forward.
Cozens, Krebs and Middlestadt have all kinds of talent.

On defense - it's likely too green - but there's potential. Dahlin has turned a corner after two awful years.
Owen Power looks like the real deal.
They could use 1-2 minute-munching veterans.


As for the Senators...
Giroux and Debrincat + Jake Sanderson to a fairly decent defense seems good to me.
It doesn't make them sure things at all - but like Detroit, there's reason to believe they should be better.

 

[Henkka]

Sabres will be 10 to 20 points behind Detroit at upcoming season.

They have promising prospects (especially Power), but prospects only very rarely do any major lift. They are kids and can't handle the 82-game schedule, when coming from smaller leagues. It comes by time to face that wear and tear. Sabres should have bolstered the roster also with proven players - UFAs - like Wings did. But they did nothing. It's still a tank year for them. Sabres are almost lock to be 7th at Atlantic - only Montreal behind.

Senators, yeah they did good moves, second best bolstering moves from whole NHL - only Wings did a bigger lift. Still they will probably be behind Red Wings by 5 to 10 points. They added Debrincat and Giroux, but also lost some guys like Connor Brown and Colin White. There's also this sexual harrashment BOMB awauting, two of theyr current Middle6 players could be involved. That a huge blow if they are judged guildy. Even the court process will hurt, even if not found guilty. It could mess your season, and season preparation.

Sens could do 15-20 points better at next season - and still be only 6th at Atlantic.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I bet Colorado fans regret tanking after winning the cup.

I would tank for 10 years if the end result was I could watch Mackinnon and company every night. Mackinnon taking a minute to hit full stride was a blessing, it aloud Colorado a lot of cap savings.

Oh wait I do, I adopted Avs as my #2 team 3 seasons ago and watch most of their games. Not because I like anything to do with Colorado, but because these young highly drafted superstars make up the most exciting team I have ever seen.

Colorado didn't tank for 10 years. And outside of 2016-17 where everything went wrong I wouldn't say they tanked at all.

2008-09	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	32	45	0	1	4	69	0.421	199	257	1062	15429	Tony Granato	Out of Playoffs
2009-10	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	43	30	0	4	5	95	0.579	244	233	1027	13947	Joe Sacco	Lost in round 1
2010-11	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	30	44	0	7	1	68	0.415	227	288	1077	14820	Joe Sacco	Out of Playoffs
2011-12	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	41	35	0	4	2	88	0.537	208	220		15499	Joe Sacco	Out of Playoffs
2012-13	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	48	16	25	0	5	2	39	0.406	116	152		15445	Joe Sacco	Out of Playoffs
2013-14	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	52	22	0	4	4	112	0.683	250	220	891	16296	Patrick Roy	Lost in round 1
2014-15	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	39	31	0	8	4	90	0.549	219	227		16177	Patrick Roy	Out of Playoffs
2015-16	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	39	39	0	4	0	82	0.500	216	240		17032	Patrick Roy	Out of Playoffs
2016-17	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	22	56	0	2	2	48	0.293	166	278		14835	Jared Bednar	Out of Playoffs
2017-18	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	43	30	0	8	1	95	0.579	257	237		15587	Jared Bednar	Lost in round 1
2018-19	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	38	30	0	12	2	90	0.549	260	246		17133	Jared Bednar	Lost in round 2
2019-20	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	70	42	20	0	7	1	92	0.657	237	191		18708	Jared Bednar	Lost in round 2
2020-21	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	West	56	39	13	0	3	1	82	0.732	197	133			Jared Bednar	Lost in round 2
2021-22	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	56	19	0	5	2	119	0.726	312	234		17499	Jared Bednar	Won Championship

 

[GMR]

Colorado didn't tank for 10 years. And outside of 2016-17 where everything went wrong I wouldn't say they tanked at all.

2008-09	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	32	45	0	1	4	69	0.421	199	257	1062	15429	Tony Granato	Out of Playoffs
2009-10	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	43	30	0	4	5	95	0.579	244	233	1027	13947	Joe Sacco	Lost in round 1
2010-11	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	30	44	0	7	1	68	0.415	227	288	1077	14820	Joe Sacco	Out of Playoffs
2011-12	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	41	35	0	4	2	88	0.537	208	220		15499	Joe Sacco	Out of Playoffs
2012-13	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	48	16	25	0	5	2	39	0.406	116	152		15445	Joe Sacco	Out of Playoffs
2013-14	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	52	22	0	4	4	112	0.683	250	220	891	16296	Patrick Roy	Lost in round 1
2014-15	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	39	31	0	8	4	90	0.549	219	227		16177	Patrick Roy	Out of Playoffs
2015-16	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	39	39	0	4	0	82	0.500	216	240		17032	Patrick Roy	Out of Playoffs
2016-17	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	22	56	0	2	2	48	0.293	166	278		14835	Jared Bednar	Out of Playoffs
2017-18	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	43	30	0	8	1	95	0.579	257	237		15587	Jared Bednar	Lost in round 1
2018-19	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	38	30	0	12	2	90	0.549	260	246		17133	Jared Bednar	Lost in round 2
2019-20	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	70	42	20	0	7	1	92	0.657	237	191		18708	Jared Bednar	Lost in round 2
2020-21	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	West	56	39	13	0	3	1	82	0.732	197	133			Jared Bednar	Lost in round 2
2021-22	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	56	19	0	5	2	119	0.726	312	234		17499	Jared Bednar	Won Championship

Can you please make a graph like this for Detroit over the last 10 years?

 

[haulinbass]

Colorado didn't tank for 10 years. And outside of 2016-17 where everything went wrong I wouldn't say they tanked at all.

2008-09	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	32	45	0	1	4	69	0.421	199	257	1062	15429	Tony Granato	Out of Playoffs
2009-10	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	43	30	0	4	5	95	0.579	244	233	1027	13947	Joe Sacco	Lost in round 1
2010-11	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	30	44	0	7	1	68	0.415	227	288	1077	14820	Joe Sacco	Out of Playoffs
2011-12	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	82	41	35	0	4	2	88	0.537	208	220		15499	Joe Sacco	Out of Playoffs
2012-13	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Northwest	48	16	25	0	5	2	39	0.406	116	152		15445	Joe Sacco	Out of Playoffs
2013-14	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	52	22	0	4	4	112	0.683	250	220	891	16296	Patrick Roy	Lost in round 1
2014-15	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	39	31	0	8	4	90	0.549	219	227		16177	Patrick Roy	Out of Playoffs
2015-16	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	39	39	0	4	0	82	0.500	216	240		17032	Patrick Roy	Out of Playoffs
2016-17	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	22	56	0	2	2	48	0.293	166	278		14835	Jared Bednar	Out of Playoffs
2017-18	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	43	30	0	8	1	95	0.579	257	237		15587	Jared Bednar	Lost in round 1
2018-19	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	38	30	0	12	2	90	0.549	260	246		17133	Jared Bednar	Lost in round 2
2019-20	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	70	42	20	0	7	1	92	0.657	237	191		18708	Jared Bednar	Lost in round 2
2020-21	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	West	56	39	13	0	3	1	82	0.732	197	133			Jared Bednar	Lost in round 2
2021-22	Colorado Avalanche	NHL	Central	82	56	19	0	5	2	119	0.726	312	234		17499	Jared Bednar	Won Championship

Didn't say they did?

I said I would be willing to tank for 10 years for players like that.

But now that you bring it up. I am willing to and will maybe later today, but haven't analayzed their exact history and agenda for those years. Maybe you have, so what happened?

They had a 11 year window where they sucked bad. Finished in the bottom 2 4x in that window. It's almost like they tried to hard to be competitive early on that maybe ended up costing them backtracking a bit. That seems to happen a lot, teams get a few decent players through draft, push prematurely with bad results. Start plugging holes with less than ideal free agents. Reguardless, in time and a combination of very low picks they emerged to win a cup. Most of their key core is made up of top 1-10 picks. Just like majority (not all) teams that go on to win a cup.

I think that sums it up reguardless of their intentions. Their road was top picks that resulted in superstars they needed to win a cup.