Kitchener Rangers 2024-25 Season Thread, Part II

[Slowpace]

Even if the prospect is Hawery, that’s light for both Allen and Luchenko. Way light.

Yes, would need more. Hunter and George Burnett have done deals before and have a good relationship. It will be win-win, if it happens.

 

[EvenSteven]

Makes no sense that part of the Allen trade was a pre payment for Luchenko. No need to do that. Why? To lock up Luchenko to London to be announced after the WJC? These (handshake) WJC deals happen every year without pre payments. That Allen cost probably recognizes that there’s a decent chance that he could play an OA season in London next year.

Using the Owen Beck trade from Missy to the Petes as a comparable, 1.5 years of Luchenko should cost in the ballpark of: Hawery, another young prospect, 2x2nds, 3rd, 4th.

London only has one 2nd left. Gonna be tough to match that price unless more 3rds are involved or another body.


 

[tjziel]

Don't be shocked if some of the picks for Allen are partial payment for a possible part 2 of that deal for a certain London born player at Team Canada camp. Balance of payment would need to include a top young Knights prospect.

To be fair, that is the actual price for a defenceman that the Knights paid. Look at the Jorian Donovan trade last year very similar in terms of pics just the Donovan trade was one more pick than the Allen trade.

However, I’m hoping you’re right and that London is looking at Luchanko. Semenov, Gerber, Bidgood, Read and Hawery could all be in play…. But I think the Knights are done.

I would compare the Luchanko trade to Owen Beck. That trade netted the Aiden Young, two 2nd round picks and a 3rd round pick.

 

[Slowpace]

Makes no sense that part of the Allen trade was a pre payment for Luchenko. No need to do that. Why? To lock up Luchenko to London to be announced after the WJC? These (handshake) WJC deals happen every year without pre payments. That Allen cost probably recognizes that there’s a decent chance that he could play an OA season in London next year.

Using the Owen Beck trade from Missy to the Petes as a comparable, 1.5 years of Luchenko should cost in the ballpark of: Hawery, another young prospect, 2x2nds, 3rd, 4th.

London only has one 2nd left. Gonna be tough to match that price unless more 3rds are involved or another body.


Luchenko likely not back next year, Philly kept him for a while this year. Cam Allen may also not be back. Both could be 1/2 season rentals. Didn’t mean to hijack the Rangers thread...was just responding to possible return for Andonovski.

 

[Fastpace]

Luchanko, is not going to London, team offense not needed in London. With the Knight's two latest acquisition on defense with now the speed of both Allen and Fimis, London rectified their only true weakness, the slow foot on the backend is no more. London will be able to retrieve the puck and their own zone faster than it had been before. This means that they will have more control over the puck. Since London has signed Montgomery, getting Luchanko from Guelph would be an overkill and disruptive, remembering Windsor 3 years ago. The Rangers are still a formidable team as they are now, they can do damages to a non-prepared team, best they work for the future, any move should remain in to that objective

 

[EvenSteven]

Luchenko likely not back next year, Philly kept him for a while this year. Cam Allen may also not be back. Both could be 1/2 season rentals. Didn’t mean to hijack the Rangers thread...was just responding to possible return for Andonovski.

We’ll see on next year on these two. Surely there would be conditionals involved in any Luchenko deal - wherever he’s dealt to.

 

[7Wacked]

Has anyone been to a game in Sarnia before? Going to be making the trip and it looks like the arena is more on the outside of town. Any recommendation for where to eat before the game?

We have been to the Refined Fool on London Road. Unique craft brewery, with a great selection and good food. Try the Apple pie fries! Just down the road from the rink.

 

[ZTKL]

Getting to that time of year again, and personally I think they should essentially stand pat, unless someone wants out for whatever reason, or an elite player wants to play for Kitchener and doesn't cost much. It seems like the team has good chemistry and enjoys playing with/for each other. They have one of the best goalies in the league that can steal any given game, and a solid young backup (reminiscent of 2022). Perhaps one of the best coaches in the league seeing how this team always seems to outperform their expectations.

You never know what's going to happen in the playoffs. Kitchener has a decent mix of skill and toughness that could get them past a team like London, especially 3 rounds in (if we're lucky) and both teams are beaten up. Look back to 2022 when they had 2 of the better goalies in the league and a plucky bunch of resilient players. Managed to upset the heavily favoured Knights in 7 games.

I get that they're young and looking towards the future but when things are going right sometimes you have to trust that. I had the same feeling but it feels like the moves MM made to add negatively affected the team. I could be wrong but in my eyes Sale never looked like he wanted to play here, and the 'vibe' changed around the team after the deadline. Regardless, unless there's an offer MM can't really refuse, why throw away a great start with even solid metrics for something that might happen 2-3 years from now. Best thing they can do is create a winning culture that 'flyer pick' players want to come to and it doesn't matter how many draft picks you have.

 

[SFC]

Getting to that time of year again, and personally I think they should essentially stand pat, unless someone wants out for whatever reason, or an elite player wants to play for Kitchener and doesn't cost much. It seems like the team has good chemistry and enjoys playing with/for each other. They have one of the best goalies in the league that can steal any given game, and a solid young backup (reminiscent of 2022). Perhaps one of the best coaches in the league seeing how this team always seems to outperform their expectations.

You never know what's going to happen in the playoffs. Kitchener has a decent mix of skill and toughness that could get them past a team like London, especially 3 rounds in (if we're lucky) and both teams are beaten up. Look back to 2022 when they had 2 of the better goalies in the league and a plucky bunch of resilient players. Managed to upset the heavily favoured Knights in 7 games.

I get that they're young and looking towards the future but when things are going right sometimes you have to trust that. I had the same feeling but it feels like the moves MM made to add negatively affected the team. I could be wrong but in my eyes Sale never looked like he wanted to play here, and the 'vibe' changed around the team after the deadline. Regardless, unless there's an offer MM can't really refuse, why throw away a great start with even solid metrics for something that might happen 2-3 years from now. Best thing they can do is create a winning culture that 'flyer pick' players want to come to and it doesn't matter how many draft picks you have.

I don't quite agree with the conclusion but this is really well argued.

I guess the way I see it is that the Rangers are still behind where they should be based on the mismanagement of the 22-23 season. (I didn't hate the moves last year, even though they didn't turn out.) I hate the idea of disarming and I agree it doesn't send the best message to the players. But the current pick cupboard isn't going to cut it, even with prices coming down a bit with the influx of USHL and BCHL talent, and even with the Rangers a bit better positioned than most teams to take advantage of that with the number of "flyers" they've taken in past drafts.

The 07-08 Spitfires traded away talent, flamed out in the playoffs, then came back and won back-to-back Memorial Cups. Do I think this team is the 07-08 Spitfires? They don't have a Taylor Hall or a Ryan Ellis but they have a deep roster of young talent and they're in a similar position: inexperienced and behind a powerhouse in the standings, but ahead of where they were expected to be and very well coached. That's the model I say we try to follow.

I would take the Allen return for Ando with a couple conditionals to protect the OA year. (IIRC Hunter doesn't really do conditionals, smartly, presumably because he doesn't want to tie up his picks for a year.) I'd take a couple seconds each for Swick and Misaljevic as well.

Parsons I'm coming around on keeping, I think ES and others are probably right that he's worth more to this team than he'd fetch in trade. Perhaps someone more familiar with the east can speak to whether any of those contenders need a goalie. Brantford and Brampton are obviously set with Leenders and Ivankovic.

London fans, how competitive do you expect your team to be next year?

 

[Gondrex]

Regarding Parsons I have a bit of a concern here.

Beginning with a question. Do fans see Rangers as taking a step forward or step back next season ? The automatic reply is likely forward. However I see Parsons as a guy who is literally stealing "W's" this season. I know he is not the only reason that Rangers are having success this year, but to me he's the the team MVP and is having a huge impact on their record.

It's a bit of a mixed blessing. The plus - his performance has helped elevate this team in the standings. What's the cost? He's not here next season, so that means the next goalie in line takes the crease. Taking nothing away from Schaubel, but there's a big gap between him and Parsons - age, maturity, experience, and even size.....which can be argued on how much it matters for a goaltender.

I get it, the team chose to go with an '08 for the back-up, so he obviously doesn't get to play as much. In my opinion, I just don't see him having any chance at playing at any elite level in such a short period of time come next year.

If the plan is to have a top-end team in two years from now, then I am wondering if it is worth sacrificing sufficient development (i.e. more reps for Schaubel) for a better placement in the standings (i.e. playing Parsons almost exclusively) this season.

There may be an answer to all this that I'm not seeing. Perhaps Edwards finally gets his shot as an 18 year-old, and between he and Schaubel they some how adequately get the job done. Or, maybe MM is forced to acquire an older goaltender with experience.....at a cost of course. Even with both the forward and defensive groups coming back a year older, will it be enough to take that next step forward ? Having Andonovski come back as an OA could defensively help stabilize the back end, but as has been pointed out, there are no guarantees that will happen.

To me, good goaltending is huge for overall team success. I guess this is another "in MM we trust" situation.

 

[Chris Coutu]

I know as a dual fan, as a greyhounds fan, I would love to see you guys stand pat and maybe even be buyers and compete with London. From an OA asset, (Mistle vs Allard ) and goalie (Parsons vs Charlie) you guys have the better assets IMO . Also on defense, (Ando vs Gibson) is pretty even … If you do stand pat or buy, does that mean 2027 mem cup is out of question ? Do you believe you can compete with London at the moment if standing pat?

 

[RangerNation]

I know as a dual fan, as a greyhounds fan, I would love to see you guys stand pat and maybe even be buyers and compete with London. From an OA asset, (Mistle vs Allard ) and goalie (Parsons vs Charlie) you guys have the better assets IMO . Also on defense, (Ando vs Gibson) is pretty even … If you do stand pat or buy, does that mean 2027 mem cup is out of question ? Do you believe you can compete with London at the moment if standing pat?

They can compete, but it would be hard for them to win a 7 game series against London. Totally fine with that. The next 2 years should be the focus. Windsor will also be very good next year. 2027 is the goal, publicly stated even. But next year is veeery interesting.

 

[EvenSteven]

What I’d like to see is Sale returned after WJC. It isn’t out of the question. It’d be a nice surprise. That would allow us to move out Swick as there should be some demand for him. Sale would then settle into the top line LW slot.

Then, perhaps a Cam Allen calibre deal where Andonovski finds a new home in the east. Even though they are lower in the standings, it wouldn’t surprise me if Brantford was the landing spot considering he’s an Ottawa draft pick and they would see him as a two year player. Allen return, plus maybe Noah Roberts? He’d bring some toughness and a better bet for an OA season than Ando. And he’s reportedly asked for a trade out of Brantford.

 

[GeoBlue]

I would take the Allen return for Ando with a couple conditionals to protect the OA year.

This has been mentioned a few times but I just don't see it. Am I missing something? As much as I like Ando, at this point, I feel Allen has more value.

 

[EvenSteven]

They can compete, but it would be hard for them to win a 7 game series against London. Totally fine with that. The next 2 years should be the focus. Windsor will also be very good next year. 2027 is the goal, publicly stated even. But next year is veeery interesting.

Next year we should be a top contender along with 26-27. It only stands to reason that if this nucleus is top end two years from now, they’ll be even better next year than this year and they’re pretty damn good this year.

Next year should be year one of two years atop the division and likely the conference.

 

[GeoBlue]

Look back to 2022 when they had 2 of the better goalies in the league and a plucky bunch of resilient players. Managed to upset the heavily favoured Knights in 7 games.

That was an exciting series but I personally don't feel that was London's best team. To me it was mostly Evangelista, Stranges and a broken Brochu.

 

[nelli27]

I don't quite agree with the conclusion but this is really well argued.

I guess the way I see it is that the Rangers are still behind where they should be based on the mismanagement of the 22-23 season. (I didn't hate the moves last year, even though they didn't turn out.) I hate the idea of disarming and I agree it doesn't send the best message to the players. But the current pick cupboard isn't going to cut it, even with prices coming down a bit with the influx of USHL and BCHL talent, and even with the Rangers a bit better positioned than most teams to take advantage of that with the number of "flyers" they've taken in past drafts.

The 07-08 Spitfires traded away talent, flamed out in the playoffs, then came back and won back-to-back Memorial Cups. Do I think this team is the 07-08 Spitfires? They don't have a Taylor Hall or a Ryan Ellis but they have a deep roster of young talent and they're in a similar position: inexperienced and behind a powerhouse in the standings, but ahead of where they were expected to be and very well coached. That's the model I say we try to follow.

I would take the Allen return for Ando with a couple conditionals to protect the OA year. (IIRC Hunter doesn't really do conditionals, smartly, presumably because he doesn't want to tie up his picks for a year.) I'd take a couple seconds each for Swick and Misaljevic as well.

Parsons I'm coming around on keeping, I think ES and others are probably right that he's worth more to this team than he'd fetch in trade. Perhaps someone more familiar with the east can speak to whether any of those contenders need a goalie. Brantford and Brampton are obviously set with Leenders and Ivankovic.

London fans, how competitive do you expect your team to be next year?

I'll take this one for 10 points, Alex.
Next season, I think the Knights take a step back...too much high end talent departing.
Erie, Kitchener and Windsor should be frontrunners.

 

[Jives]

I'll take this one for 10 points, Alex.
Next season, I think the Knights take a step back...too much high end talent departing.
Erie, Kitchener and Windsor should be frontrunners.

What is the list of players that are expecting this to be their last year with the Knights?

Kitchener
Misajelvic 100%
Swick 100%
Parsons 100%
Ando 60%
Pridham 40%
Chromiak 20% (not many OA and import out there)
Grisolia 10% (just not good enough to be an OA)
Mercer 10% (just not good enough to be an OA)

 

[nelli27]

What is the list of players that are expecting this to be their last year with the Knights?

Of note...Cowan, Bonk, Julien, Barkey, Halltunen, Sim, Nurmi, (maybe Dickinson).

 

[rangersblues]

What is the list of players that are expecting this to be their last year with the Knights?

Cowan, Barkey, Bonk, Halttunen, and Montgomery are all 05s. Sim, Julien and Elliott are 04s. That's pretty substantial.

 

[robertmac43]

No point trying to compete with London this year. 26 & 27 should be the focus with this season as an oppurtunity for more playoff experience.

 

[GangGreen]

Cowan, Barkey, Bonk, Halttunen, and Montgomery are all 05s. Sim, Julien and Elliott are 04s. That's pretty substantial.

Nurmi won't be back. Think Montgomery will stick with US university commitment. And there has been rumours that Dickinson could sign with Michigan if he doesn't stick with San Jose. Probably no reason to play OHL after this year, although I imagine he'll be in the NHL.
Thing is, with the change in the NCAA rules, there could be a lot of talent coming North that wouldn't have before. Probably will benefit London, Kitchener and Windsor the most.
Knights are looking at a 5-8 spot in the conference I imagine.

 

[tjziel]

Nurmi won't be back. Think Montgomery will stick with US university commitment. And there has been rumours that Dickinson could sign with Michigan if he doesn't stick with San Jose. Probably no reason to play OHL after this year, although I imagine he'll be in the NHL.
Thing is, with the change in the NCAA rules, there could be a lot of talent coming North that wouldn't have before. Probably will benefit London, Kitchener and Windsor the most.
Knights are looking at a 5-8 spot in the conference I imagine.

Unless Nurmi has a great second half, I could see him coming back as an import OA. Dickinson is too loyal to go the NCAA route. I don’t think he has a desire for that if he doesn’t make the NHL. I think there is actually more of a possibility that Dickinson makes the NHL than go the NCAA route.

 

[frontsfan67]

We’ll see on next year on these two. Surely there would be conditionals involved in any Luchenko deal - wherever he’s dealt to.

With the rumoured barrie and north bay trade I think it’s fair to assume we can cross Barrie off the list without Vaughan.


Oshawa has the assets if they want to counteract with both smith and griffin at their potential disposal. I’m sure they wouldn’t complain about Ritchie and Luchanko right up the middle.


London if they want to try something different and screw their future could go and trade Hawery, he reunites with McLean and they get a potential 2 year player (likely 1 year) and then for them- Cowan and Luchanko up the middle.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Unless Nurmi has a great second half, I could see him coming back as an import OA. Dickinson is too loyal to go the NCAA route. I don’t think he has a desire for that if he doesn’t make the NHL. I think there is actually more of a possibility that Dickinson makes the NHL than go the NCAA route.

Don't disagree, but I think for most highly thought of prospects, that their NHL team will prevail where the player will play. The NCAA is an older league with physically stronger players. Would the NHL think one yr of NCAA be a better transition for the player than playing against 16 to 20 yr old players?