Kitchener Rangers 2022-23 Season Thread

[Tim Wallach]

Boedker is the one I'll always remember. They butchered his development in PHX.

Him and I would argue Devereaux as well. He had no business being in the NHL that early. His offensive game was still developing.

Yes and Kitch should get 10th pick supplemental next year.

The conditional 3 picks given by Sudbury could turn out to be a bunch of picks added to the trade if Hage reports to Sudbury

Kit gets the 11th pick since the Ice Dog's compensatory picks knocks theirs down a slot apparently.

 

[aresknights]

It's hard for me to picture the Knights down that low in the standings. It would just look too weird....that's why I never count them out. It seems to me the last time London was way down at / near the bottom was back when McInerney was stopping about 50 shots a game. That's like 25 years ago.

I'm not counting them out, but scoring is an issue.
D looks solid, goalie can cover up alot I just think the Rangers have a better roster heading into the season and I expect them to finish ahead of London as it stands now.

 

[bobber]

Wonder if Sudbury was the only team willing to make an offer for the rights to Hage?

 

[EvenSteven]

Wonder if Sudbury was the only team willing to make an offer for the rights to Hage?

At that return, MM would have had no trouble finding a trade partner.

More likely he sought out a desirable trade partner to do business with.

 

[Gondrex]

Most 04 groups are questionable, ours looks even worse when people exclude Parsons for some reason. I don't see us contending next year though, unless MM sells at some point this year which seems unlikely with all of the guys who have committed.

Yes, there are teams that arguably may have done better. Cherry-picking one example - Barrie for instance drafted in this order: Haight, Mathews, Jelsma, and Brzustewicz (mind you, now we are fortunate to have Brzustewicz on this team). Offensively, those are decent picks, but I don't think we're that terrible.........

Good point on Parsons. IMO he's as good as, if not better than the 2nd round Kitchener goaltending pick in 2002 and 4th rounder in 2015.

Regarding our first rounder A LeBlanc, we have to remind ourselves that it's not the kids' fault where they are picked, and to be fair he was 17th overall. Taking into account (past Admiral first rounders) Schmalz and Davies, one could understand how a frustrated fan could cynically demand the firing of the scout that covers the Southern Tier Admirals. However, grabbing J LeBlanc in the 3rd round turned out to be a pretty good pick IMO. In fact, if the Rangers had picked the two brothers in opposite rounds there could very well be little to no discussion on the 04's. Maybe J LeBlanc isn't necessarily considered first round talent, but I still think he's better than the spot he was picked at.

As for Swick, in many cases it seems like the "big bodies" take longer to develop. I actually think Swick has decent hands, and if they continue to park him in front of the net on the 2nd PP unit, he may surprise us on his numbers this year. At 6'-7" you gotta love that size on this team.

I'm still anxious to see Pugliese. If he some how surprises in his 2nd season he could be considered a steal at round 14. Could end up being between him and Misaljevic for a spot on this squad though.

Having a Brzustewicz and Hamara definitely elevates the quality of the 04 group, and as mentioned, there is a good possibility that Brzustewicz returns next year....and to me, he is like having that 04 first-rounder you always wanted.

If anything, my biggest concern going forward is the potential lack of high-end 06's, but that's a concern for another day, and there is time to (hopefully) address that.

 

[GeoBlue]

So, here’s a scenario:

We’ve traded Hage’s rights to Sudbury for a small return in order to get that first round comp pick next year. So, perhaps Kitchener and Sudbury has a two part, side deal in place.

League rules say a player cannot be returned via trade to a former team within a 13 month period. So, next season at the end of October, Hage agrees he’ll report here and his rights are traded back to the Rangers for a healthy package making it all worthwhile for Sudbury taking part in this exercise.

Once the dust has settled, Kitchener has Hage in the lineup next fall plus a second first round pick in the 2023 draft

The odds of this scenario being a possibility are about as far-fetched as Jacob Tortora finding his way back to Barrie after Barrie having declared him defected and being awarded a second first round compensation pick the following year.

No! Something like that would never happen!

Nudge nudge wink wink.

Even, I completely agree with you with regards to this scenario and I feel this "significant injury" was a huge deciding factor. Sudbury was in rebuild mode last year and I cannot see a 16 year old, who will miss part of the season due to injury, making an impact this year. I think Sudbury will help us out while grabbing some future picks for themselves. Makes sense for the Rangers as well. I can see a healthy 16 year old Hage making the team this year but stepping onto a team in mid season might not be realistic. Get him back mid October next year and he will fit in nicely when Serpa and Valade are gone. Plus we get the extra 1st round pick to boot.

 

[Rangers True Blue]

Basically, the article says that MM hasn't heard anything but of course, would love to have him here. Crickets out of Montreal which would be expected. They want to give Mesar every chance to succeed at camp and want to see him at his best. They won't pop the balloon until they've seen what they need to see.

Montreal’s rookie camp goes until Thursday, with main training camp running Sept. 21 to Oct. 11.
So despite my enthusiasm...we wait.

 

[bobber]

Even, I completely agree with you with regards to this scenario and I feel this "significant injury" was a huge deciding factor. Sudbury was in rebuild mode last year and I cannot see a 16 year old, who will miss part of the season due to injury, making an impact this year. I think Sudbury will help us out while grabbing some future picks for themselves. Makes sense for the Rangers as well. I can see a healthy 16 year old Hage making the team this year but stepping onto a team in mid season might not be realistic. Get him back mid October next year and he will fit in nicely when Serpa and Valade are gone. Plus we get the extra 1st round pick to boot.

It's a nice pipe dream. Doubt it will ever come to fruition. I just can't see the Rangers taking that chance with heavy sanctions handed out to others franchises in the past. If the drummed up deal is deemed illegal it could cost the Rangers several 1st rounders and heavy fines. Already lost the 1st and 2nd this year to either a lack of due diligence or fear of the Knights grabbing Hage. Presently it doesn't look great on McKenzie. Other GMs must be laughing. If the Rangers had of just taken another player in the first. There were a couple decent prospects. This player would be on their roster.

 

[EvenSteven]

It's a nice pipe dream. Doubt it will ever come to fruition. I just can't see the Rangers taking that chance with heavy sanctions handed out to others franchises in the past. If the drummed up deal is deemed illegal it could cost the Rangers several 1st rounders and heavy fines. Already lost the 1st and 2nd this year to either a lack of due diligence or fear of the Knights grabbing Hage. Presently it doesn't look great on McKenzie. Other GMs must be laughing. If the Rangers had of just taken another player in the first. There were a couple decent prospects. This player would be on their roster.

I disagree. Pipe dream? Maybe. But if MM is not doing everything he can to improve this team, within the rules, he’s not doing his job.

Someone is going to have to cite for me the rule that he would be breaking if this all goes down the way I think it could.

Part of doing everything he can to improve his team is seizing an opportunity like what he may be doing with Sudbury right now. If my scenario is true, he and the Rangers will come out of this golden.

Look, the Rangers are a team who were screwed over pretty good due to Covid. Going all in at the deadline in 19-20 and then having the rest of the season yanked out from under you, along with the cancellation of the 20-21 season which snatched away their ability to sell off graduating assets in a down year left this team asset thin. Add to that the one time agreement allowing underage players to play AHL hockey last year which took Sebrango away from us in a sell off year and Covid has really taken the legs out from under the Rangers.

To recoup those lost assets, MM has to get creative. If this is what he’s doing with Sudbury, moving Hage with the intent of hopefully reaquiring him in order to get another first round pick next year, then hats off to him. Some people may cry foul. But, this is well within the rules. Might it cause rule changes down the road? Maybe. But the Jacob Tortora back-and-forth with Barrie, and the 2010 defected player shuffle between Barrie, Mississauga, and Windsor didn’t cause any rule changes. This likely doesn’t either.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

It's a nice pipe dream. Doubt it will ever come to fruition. I just can't see the Rangers taking that chance with heavy sanctions handed out to others franchises in the past. If the drummed up deal is deemed illegal it could cost the Rangers several 1st rounders and heavy fines. Already lost the 1st and 2nd this year to either a lack of due diligence or fear of the Knights grabbing Hage. Presently it doesn't look great on McKenzie. Other GMs must be laughing. If the Rangers had of just taken another player in the first. There were a couple decent prospects. This player would be on their roster.

I think it looks fine on MM. The Longacre pick is disappointing if he never shows, but I don't think it matters for this year with the logjam we have on D and in the bottom 6 (where both would be playing). The Hage pick went one of 2 ways he (and folks here, or me anyway) anticipated from the moment of the pick. I like the idea of two 1sts next year, when a bunch of guys graduate. Gives us a better core to build around for the next cycle.

You're likely getting a similar or perhaps better player at 11 next year than who was left at 9 this year (with a full year of focusing solely on GM duties, he has a lot of time to scout and recruit).

 

[dirty12]

Tortora stated he wanted to play in the OHL and be coached by Hawerchuk about 3.5 years after being drafted by Barrie. Hage back to Kitchener in 13 months would indeed seem questionable; and I doubt Joe Birch wants his integrity questioned.

 

[dirty12]

You're likely getting a similar or perhaps better player at 11 next year than who was left at 9 this year (with a full year of focusing solely on GM duties, he has a lot of time to scout and recruit).

You’re not likely getting a similar or perhaps better player at 11 next year than the near unanimous #3 this year. For most of year Hage was rated nearer to Spence than he was to the next highest forward. There is no compensation for a defective compensatory pick, so Kitchener would select a player certain to report rather than go the Rehkopf, Hage route for a third consecutive year?

 

[bobber]

I disagree. Pipe dream? Maybe. But if MM is not doing everything he can to improve this team, within the rules, he’s not doing his job.

Someone is going to have to cite for me the rule that he would be breaking if this all goes down the way I think it could.

Part of doing everything he can to improve his team is seizing an opportunity like what he may be doing with Sudbury right now. If my scenario is true, he and the Rangers will come out of this golden.

Look, the Rangers are a team who were screwed over pretty good due to Covid. Going all in at the deadline in 19-20 and then having the rest of the season yanked out from under you, along with the cancellation of the 20-21 season which snatched away their ability to sell off graduating assets in a down year left this team asset thin. Add to that the one time agreement allowing underage players to play AHL hockey last year which took Sebrango away from us in a sell off year and Covid has really taken the legs out from under the Rangers.

To recoup those lost assets, MM has to get creative. If this is what he’s doing with Sudbury, moving Hage with the intent of hopefully reaquiring him in order to get another first round pick next year, then hats off to him. Some people may cry foul. But, this is well within the rules. Might it cause rule changes down the road? Maybe. But the Jacob Tortora back-and-forth with Barrie, and the 2010 defected player shuffle between Barrie, Mississauga, and Windsor didn’t cause any rule changes. This likely doesn’t either.

Even love your enthusiasm. Hope your hypothetical scenario comes to fruition. I watched Hage in the rookie camp. He just seemed to be able to do something constructive every time he touched the puck. He was amongst his peers at the time so that is a consideration. Personally, I don't see this as going to much further other than the comp pick and whatever happens to the conditionals. MM made the decision to grab Hage and Longacre 1st and 2nd. Both were flyers at best. If neither ends up in KW the decision to go there doesn't bode well going forward IMO. As you said if they do end up here it's golden.

 

[EvenSteven]

I think it looks fine on MM. The Longacre pick is disappointing if he never shows, but I don't think it matters for this year with the logjam we have on D and in the bottom 6 (where both would be playing). The Hage pick went one of 2 ways he (and folks here, or me anyway) anticipated from the moment of the pick. I like the idea of two 1sts next year, when a bunch of guys graduate. Gives us a better core to build around for the next cycle.

You're likely getting a similar or perhaps better player at 11 next year than who was left at 9 this year (with a full year of focusing solely on GM duties, he has a lot of time to scout and recruit).

I’m not surprised on Longacre not playing this year. I would’ve much liked him to at least come to camp and sign but then because of the log jam on D, choose to play at a lower level for big minutes.

That may still be the case and we see him here next year.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

You’re not likely getting a similar or perhaps better player at 11 next year than the near unanimous #3 this year. For most of year Hage was rated nearer to Spence than he was to the next highest forward. There is no compensation for a defective compensatory pick, so Kitchener would select a player certain to report rather than go the Rehkopf, Hage route for a third consecutive year?

If you read the conversation carefully, I was referring to players left at 9 instead of Hage, meaning 11 next year would be similar to the players other than Hage that would have reported.

MM has a full year to scout and interview these kids, something didn't have last year (perhaps why wires seem to have been crossed with Longacre).
I could see a potential Pinelli type scenario where the 5-7 ranked kid falls a few spots because he doesn't want to report to a higher team (Windsor for Pinelli) if things go well. All wild speculation, of course.

He could also use the Rangers natural 1st to try a Rehkopf scenario, but ideally you take the best 2 players that will report that you can build around.

 

[EvenSteven]

If you read the conversation carefully, I was referring to players left at 9 instead of Hage, meaning 11 next year would be similar to the players other than Hage that would have reported.

MM has a full year to scout and interview these kids, something didn't have last year (perhaps why wires seem to have been crossed with Longacre).
I could see a potential Pinelli type scenario where the 5-7 ranked kid falls a few spots because he doesn't want to report to a higher team (Windsor for Pinelli) if things go well. All wild speculation, of course.

He could also use the Rangers natural 1st to try a Rehkopf scenario, but ideally you take the best 2 players that will report that you can build around.

In other words, he is comparing whoever we take at 11 next year to Cole Beaudoin and Ben Cormier. The next two picks after Hage and both centers.

Even love your enthusiasm. Hope your hypothetical scenario comes to fruition. I watched Hage in the rookie camp. He just seemed to be able to do something constructive every time he touched the puck. He was amongst his peers at the time so that is a consideration. Personally, I don't see this as going to much further other than the comp pick and whatever happens to the conditionals. MM made the decision to grab Hage and Longacre 1st and 2nd. Both were flyers at best. If neither ends up in KW the decision to go there doesn't bode well going forward IMO. As you said if they do end up here it's golden.

The fact MM did the deal with Sudbury further makes me believe that there may be something in play for next year. No disrespect, but Sudbury is probably one of the last places he would choose to play in and therefore, if what his agent is saying is true and he wants to play in the OHL at 17, then he’d be looking to have his rights moved again.

This harkens back to the Bracco/Stanley two-parter. Sure, Windsor could’ve traded Stanley anywhere in the off-season, but he was traded to Kitchener for a decidedly low return. That’s what made it obvious that it was the second part to the Bracco deal.

Again, all this may be a pipe dream. But, it’s not like it’s out of the realm of possibility and it is well within the rules.

I don’t understand where people are talking sanctions when no rules are being broken.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

In other words, he is comparing whoever we take at 11 next year to Cole Beaudoin and Ben Cormier. The next two picks after Hage and both centers.


The fact MM did the deal with Sudbury further makes me believe that there may be something in play for next year. No disrespect, but Sudbury is probably one of the last places he would choose to play in and therefore, if what his agent is saying is true and he wants to play in the OHL at 17, then he’d be looking to have his rights moved again.

This harkens back to the Bracco/Stanley two-parter. Sure, Windsor could’ve traded Stanley anywhere in the off-season, but he was traded to Kitchener for a decidedly low return. That’s what made it obvious that it was the second part to the Bracco deal.

Again, all this may be a pipe dream. But, it’s not like it’s out of the realm of possibility and it is well within the rules.

I don’t understand where people are talking sanctions when no rules are being broken.

I just can't see it happening. I suspect Sudberia was just one of the teams willing to make a similar offer, and maybe this is cynical or what have you, but perhaps of those teams Sudbury was seen as the least desirable detitanation (ie. say Windsor or London offered the same) and thus least likely to report, but also out of conference so if he does report he's less likely to be a pain in our rear on a regular basis.

I think the Tortora thing just fell into our laps (I think that was Hiebert deal that MM finished a couple years later but I may be wrong), I think MM is a good GM but I don't think he's quite so shrewd that it's a 4D chess move.

 

[dirty12]

I also doubt a choosy type like Hage reports to Sudbury, most years the odds would be near zero; but if by luck Chromiak decides to come over, the wolves will have very clear two year window of opportunity with 2005-06 born and ‘04 OAs. He would definitely think about the fun times that could be had playing on a Musty-Villneuve-Hage-Chromiak line

 

[EvenSteven]

MM made the decision to grab Hage and Longacre 1st and 2nd. Both were flyers at best.

I’m not so sure these picks were flyers at best. It’s not like he picked these guys in hopes they’d report in the way guys like Gauthier and Fegaras were drafted.

He said that he had discussions with Longacre and was assured he was coming. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have drafted him. I predicted a while back that Longacre might not play here this year with our deep defense. He’d want to play big minutes at a lower level in preparation for next year. I think MacKenzie expected him to sign and play some X games at least this year. I guessing Longacre may be just keeping his options open by not burning the possibility of the NCAA route. I don’t have a problem with that. But he has to know, next year, in his NHL draft year, he will get big minutes here in Kitchener.

McKenzie said he understood Hage wanted to play one year in Chicago and accepted that. I believe he still thinks Hage will only want to play one year in Chicago and perhaps the agent has told him so. What he’s doing now, is just covering his ass in the event something goes south with Hage and he doesn’t come at all. Maybe the injury gave him a bit of a scare.

At least we’ll have the comp pick next year to show for this asset. Hage could be in the league next year and we get the conditional picks. And at the most, he’s traded back here.

Anything is possible.

 

[EvenSteven]

I think MM is a good GM but I don't think he's quite so shrewd that it's a 4D chess move.

Let’s hope he is a shrewd general manager. Sure he’s good. He’s shown that here already. But we’ve had good GM’s in the past who wouldn’t go the extra mile to make this team as good as it could be.

Steve Spott would rather complain about the prices at the deadline than to pay the market price that needed to be paid to get deals done.

Austin Watson stated he wanted to play for either Kitchener or London. He was traded to London for a poor return. Fans in Peterboro were pissed. Spott complained about asking prices and that his offer was better. It wouldn’t have taken much to beat that London package that went the other way. It was Austin Watson who beat us in that playoff series against London.

Same thing with Alan Quine. He wouldn’t pay the asking price when we needed a number one center. Instead of paying market price, he sat back and complained about the price. It left us with no number one centre and when we were eliminated from the playoffs he lamented that we didn’t have a number one center.

I’m hoping that MM will do everything he can do within the rules to make this team as good as it can be. And if that means doing a dance with Sudbury regarding Hage, then so be it.

With something like that be shifty? Maybe. Would that be shrewd? For sure. But it would be within the rules and that’s all that matters.

 

[bobber]

I’m not so sure these picks were flyers at best. It’s not like he picked these guys in hopes they’d report in the way guys like Gauthier and Fegaras were drafted.

He said that he had discussions with Longacre and was assured he was coming. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have drafted him. I predicted a while back that Longacre might not play here this year with our deep defense. He’d want to play big minutes at a lower level in preparation for next year. I think MacKenzie expected him to sign and play some X games at least this year. I guessing Longacre may be just keeping his options open by not burning the possibility of the NCAA route. I don’t have a problem with that. But he has to know, next year, in his NHL draft year, he will get big minutes here in Kitchener.

McKenzie said he understood Hage wanted to play one year in Chicago and accepted that. I believe he still thinks Hage will only want to play one year in Chicago and perhaps the agent has told him so. What he’s doing now, is just covering his ass in the event something goes south with Hage and he doesn’t come at all. Maybe the injury gave him a bit of a scare.

At least we’ll have the comp pick next year to show for this asset. Hage could be in the league next year and we get the conditional picks. And at the most, he’s traded back here.

Anything is possible.until next

I guess it's a waiting game now to see what comes of the Hage issue. Sort of beating a comatose horse until next year's draft.

 

[Gondrex]

If you're not tired of the ongoing Mesar "wait and see" situation, here is yet another take on it from montrealhockeynow.com:

....A more interesting avenue could be Canadian Major Junior, with the Kitchener Rangers of the OHL. Should Mesar be loaned to Kitchener, he would get prime usage on a nightly basis and would instantly become their most prominent forward right from the jump. It would make for a very interesting environment where Mesar would be able to further refine his offensive game in a less physically demanding setting in his first season in North America.

On the flip side, the forward situation in Laval is going to be incredibly crowded, just as it already is on the big club at the moment. The Laval Rocket will have trouble finding room to play all of the Canadiens’ forward prospects due to the high number of AHL contracts they’ve handed out this summer.......

The full article here:

Canadiens Will Have Important Decision To Make On Filip Mesar

I thought the reference to fellow Canadiens draft pick Jan Mysak was an interesting take.

 

[nelli27]

You know I'm a fan of this kid...

Bottom Six Minutes: Arber Xhekaj is a bad man

The Canadiens beat up on the Senators at the rookie tournament, both literally and on the scoreboard.

www.habseyesontheprize.com

 

[Antiillafire]

If you're not tired of the ongoing Mesar "wait and see" situation, here is yet another take on it from montrealhockeynow.com:

....A more interesting avenue could be Canadian Major Junior, with the Kitchener Rangers of the OHL. Should Mesar be loaned to Kitchener, he would get prime usage on a nightly basis and would instantly become their most prominent forward right from the jump. It would make for a very interesting environment where Mesar would be able to further refine his offensive game in a less physically demanding setting in his first season in North America.

On the flip side, the forward situation in Laval is going to be incredibly crowded, just as it already is on the big club at the moment. The Laval Rocket will have trouble finding room to play all of the Canadiens’ forward prospects due to the high number of AHL contracts they’ve handed out this summer.......

The full article here:

Canadiens Will Have Important Decision To Make On Filip Mesar

I thought the reference to fellow Canadiens draft pick Jan Mysak was an interesting take.

The Athletic article on Mesar talked about him and the potential of where he will play next season. He’s been playing C for games 2 and 3 of the prospect tournament, and it is mentioned that Montreal may want him to play there in Kitchener. Can imports be traded? Send him to a team where he can play 1C and not have to play behind Pinelli

 

[Gondrex]

The Athletic article on Mesar talked about him and the potential of where he will play next season. He’s been playing C for games 2 and 3 of the prospect tournament, and it is mentioned that Montreal may want him to play there in Kitchener. Can imports be traded? Send him to a team where he can play 1C and not have to play behind Pinelli

I was thinking of this same scenario. What if Hab management sends him here and wants him developed as a center ? I'm pretty sure L.A. still wants Pinelli to continue to develop on the same path. If Mesar and Pinelli were 1st and 2nd centers, what happens to Serpa ? Does he move to the 3rd line and Zidlicky gets a shot on a 1st / 2nd line ? No question in my mind Mesar would be played at whatever position the Habs ask for, and maybe offensively that would turn out even better for the Rangers - if Montreal were to send him this way at all.