Kitchener Rangers 2022-23 Season Thread (Part 2)

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OMG67

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Good post as usual OMG.

If it indeed turns out to be a buyer's market as you say, then as absurd as it sounds when staring at the standings, perhaps MM may find it too irresistible to not pick up a few of those "cheap" assets and take a run at it after all. With each loss, a large part of my brain says sell. However I still recognize the fact that this team is likely underachieving. There are some potentially good pieces to this team. Two of them are currently injured.

Of course, my above thought comes with one huge caveat - a replacement of the current orchestrater behind the bench. I hate to pin point the problem, but as Einstein once famously stated: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

It's been discussed many times here on this board. Most of the current roster returned from last year, along with the addition of some impressive talent - one of whom I would (arguably) consider world class - Mesar. So how can this team's record be worse than last year? I can't really put it any other way.

The only issue with that is you have to expect the competition ahead of them to also make a few moves to get better. So, not only would they need to bridge the current gap but also bridge the next gap.

The only reason there seems to be a buyers market is becuase there doesn’t seem to be a lot of status quo teams this year. The teams in the bottom half of the conferences seem to be the teams most in need of recouping assets for their picks closet. That and the fact there are some lower standing teams bidding for a Memorial Cup Host.

It is an odd season this year. I’d like to confidently say I can see what is going to happen but I feel like I am speculating more than usual.
 
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GeoBlue

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Not my only argument nor the only player I think the Rangers have developed in the last 10 years. Just an example. For sure credit to Arber, but he wouldn’t have even been drafted into the OHL if not for the Rangers.

Also my definition of a successful development may be a bit different than some of the posters here. I don’t think a success is necessarily an NHL legend, many of the guys we have seen the last couple of years have gone on to have terrific success in USports and get an education at the same time. Kitchener is also one of very few community teams - one of the reasons I keep returning as an season ticket holder is the community impact. My money from it goes back into Kw - I may be on my own in this opinion too.

I do wish we could pull more 1st rounders - I think the OHL as a whole could do a better job of fighting drafting battles with the NCAA.

Also your entitled to your opinion of what you value or deem you have lost lately as a STH, but every team is going paperless with tickets now - I liked the calendar they put out this year to have a physical gift to replace a bit. But I guess I don’t value those physical fancy tickets as much as maybe some do. Also post-covid when everything is expensive and inflation is out of control - the amount I pay for exciting hockey (in my opinion) is a fair price.
Ned, you don't name other "success stories" in your post other than Arber. And he wasn't "drafted into the OHL"....he was an invite leading me to think he got a lot of his development elsewhere even before he joined the Rangers. He does give credit to Wideman so there is a point for the coaching staff.

I personally don't call an OHLer going to Usports a "success". I feel Usports is the place hockey players go when they are not good enough for the pros. Who are they playing with in Usports other than former OHLers? Players that were not good enough for the CHL!

"The amount you pay for EXCITING hockey"??? I don't think you have done your trolling as of late before you joined this group 2 days ago. The last 10 or so pages are about the inconsistency, poor development and the LACK if excitement at Ranger games. And the feeling is that the future is "Grimm" unless changes happen in the coaching AND the Board of Directors. You wouldn't happen to know any of them, would you? ;-)
 

bobber

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Ned, you don't name other "success stories" in your post other than Arber. And he wasn't "drafted into the OHL"....he was an invite leading me to think he got a lot of his development elsewhere even before he joined the Rangers. He does give credit to Wideman so there is a point for the coaching staff.

I personally don't call an OHLer going to Usports a "success". I feel Usports is the place hockey players go when they are not good enough for the pros. Who are they playing with in Usports other than former OHLers? Players that were not good enough for the CHL!

"The amount you pay for EXCITING hockey"??? I don't think you have done your trolling as of late before you joined this group 2 days ago. The last 10 or so pages are about the inconsistency, poor development and the LACK if excitement at Ranger games. And the feeling is that the future is "Grimm" unless changes happen in the coaching AND the Board of Directors. You wouldn't happen to know any of them, would you? ;-)
If fans are happy with the product on the ice at Ranger Games and keep filling the old barn nothing changes.
 

rangersblues

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Mar 21, 2010
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That’s sort of my opinion as well. It is run as a business and only as a business. Safe but probably a little too safe to be hyper competitive.
I think there's also a lot of red tape that the GM has to manoeuvre around. There's only a few periods of sustained success the organization has really had over 60 years. That happened when they had a Type A personality running the ship such as DeBoer, Tessier, Crozier, Barrett... Mostly the team has spun its wheels otherwise.
 
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OMG67

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I think there's also a lot of red tape that the GM has to manoeuvre around. There's only a few periods of sustained success the organization has really had over 60 years. That happened when they had a Type A personality running the ship such as DeBoer, Tessier, Crozier, Barrett... Mostly the team has spun its wheels otherwise.

It is hard to make decisions as a “board.” They need a managing partner and do away with the board decisions.
 
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bobber

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It is hard to make decisions as a “board.” They need a managing partner and do away with the board decisions
Your correct OMG. It's high time to move on from directors. No need for them. Many have no hockey knowledge whatsoever other than watching games live. Most are there for free season tickets and whatever else is available. A managing partner would take this and turn it into something fans would be excited about.
 

Matttheleaf

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Apr 18, 2019
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Just looking back at the last time we went to the conference finals in 17-18, we only had one player with more than 70 points ( Adam Mascherin 86 points), but then in the down year the following season (18-19) we had 5 players with more than 70 points, but lost in 4 straight games that year.

Its interesting to compare this years team with that of the 17-18, where you could realistically have 1 player with lots of points (Pinelli) and a bunch of other guys around the point per game mark like in the 17-18.

Don't really have an end goal with this post, but I find it interesting comparing this team with the past few years and being able to see how similar they could be to the last time we went far in the playoffs (even if they are really crapping the bed right now).
 

beastintheeast

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Mar 27, 2013
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Long time lurker. Just came on to say this is an insane comment. Development has stagnated over the last decade? Arber Xhekaj, a kid the Rangers found through OHL free agency, signed and developed into a beast of a player, is now the 4th top scoring rookie d-man in the NHL.

Also as a Season Ticket member myself, would love to know exactly what you’d like from the club? Are you complaining about the bonuses they put on top of the hockey they provide you orr…. For me I’ve always had fun just attending the games.

Also if I was an OHL aged kid I’d rather go to Kitchener than many of the other options in the league.
I am not a ranger fan but for what it is worth have supported followed the Kingston Org and have been a long time fan and yes that is me in the costume.

Player development

In 2004 Chris Stewart tried out as a walk on for the Fronts and made it. He developed into an NHL talent that lasted a few years. That does not mean that Kingston or Mavety knew how to develop players. Kingston has rarely hired coaches that knew how to develop players and when they did they fired them,
This Ranger team on paper has everything it needs BUT paper is only good for one thing. It takes a coaching staff that can develop the players and a GM that can find the right players.

It is funny reading people here talking about the executive it almost sounds like what people are saying ab out the Hockey Canada board. People are there for the prestige, maybe a little money and free tickets but they are there for the local prestige. In order to run a team you either need to hire the best or you need to have owners that know hockey and can make a decision.

If I was a parent with a 14 year-old d son I would not want to go to many teams but the team that I would want to go to are Ottawa, London Windsor and Hamilton.

If drafted by Kingston Kitchener, Niagara I would tell them they need to trade my son or would talk to the USHL.

As to players wanting out and demanding a trade. What doo think the Pinelli boys are going to be talking about over the break? Do you not think the Kings would love to see him on a contending team. That Mom and Dad would love to just have to go to one rink to see there kids.
 

EvenSteven

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Just looking back at the last time we went to the conference finals in 17-18, we only had one player with more than 70 points ( Adam Mascherin 86 points), but then in the down year the following season (18-19) we had 5 players with more than 70 points, but lost in 4 straight games that year.

Its interesting to compare this years team with that of the 17-18, where you could realistically have 1 player with lots of points (Pinelli) and a bunch of other guys around the point per game mark like in the 17-18.

Don't really have an end goal with this post, but I find it interesting comparing this team with the past few years and being able to see how similar they could be to the last time we went far in the playoffs (even if they are really crapping the bed right now).
For 17-18, I think you have to look at points per game. Logan Brown missed a lot of games that year. Kole Sherwood as well.

The real tale is told in the playoffs. The points per game of those three soared in the post season.
 

bobber

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For 17-18, I think you have to look at points per game. Logan Brown missed a lot of games that year. Kole Sherwood as well.

The real tale is told in the playoffs. The points per game of those three soared in the post season.
We still had seasons tickets when Brown and company were playing here. That was some of the most exciting hockey we saw at the Aud in and around that time. If the management builds a team that has a chance to contend the Aud is a great place to watch hockey. The whole atmosphere is different.
 
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bobber

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Seeing a lot of trade banter lately. Armchair GMs of franchises with a shot at advancing in the playoffs will always devalue top players on teams lower in the standings. They are never willing to give up decent prospects. Just prospects that they figure will not make a good fit going forward.
Can't blame them. In reality it just never works out the way we see it on these boards most of the time. It comes down to who wants a skilled high end player the most. We are usually surprised at the assets given up acquiring the best players in the league. In the end you just hope your GM made the right moves that benefit your team going forward.
 

OMG67

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Seeing a lot of trade banter lately. Armchair GMs of franchises with a shot at advancing in the playoffs will always devalue top players on teams lower in the standings. They are never willing to give up decent prospects. Just prospects that they figure will not make a good fit going forward.
Can't blame them. In reality it just never works out the way we see it on these boards most of the time. It comes down to who wants a skilled high end player the most. We are usually surprised at the assets given up acquiring the best players in the league. In the end you just hope your GM made the right moves that benefit your team going forward.

The challenge Kitchener has is they shouldn’t be the bottom team which means their players are underperforming. Conversely, when you have a team that should be at th bottom of the standings with players performing as expected, it is different. Case in point, Pinelli vs Harrison. Pinelli was projected to be a 100 point player this season and had a decent shot at playing for Team Canada. He’s basically slightly over a point per game player and looks to have hit his ceiling as an 18 year old last season. On the other hand, you have Brett Harrison that wasn’t projected to score 100 points, probably around 80, and he is performing reasonably up to expectations considering the players he is surrounded by.

Under those circumstances, which player is worth more? They both produce similar points. Both are centres. One has significantly underperformed and the other is mostly on target After coming back from injury. How does that affect trade value?

I do feel there is a difference between a player that has underperformed on a bad team and a player that performs similarly on a bad team but doesn’t have nearly the same supporting cast. That is going to affect a player like Pinelli’s value. Going into the season, one would have suggested Pinelli was likely worth a 2022 1st plus picks. Now? I think that landscape has changed. He is now valued at the same level as a player like Brett Harrison, a decent 17 year old prospect forward not getting a lot of ice time plus 4-5 picks.

The Rangers will likely need to decide if they rather stay status quo or take a somewhat depressed trade return value for players that should have performed better. The only reason those players are available is because of lack of performance.

As Beast said, the Pinelli boys will be chatting and Franky has a no trade clause. IT may simply come down to whether they want to push the issue or not. It’s happened before.
 
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bobber

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The challenge Kitchener has is they shouldn’t be the bottom team which means their players are underperforming. Conversely, when you have a team that should be at th bottom of the standings with players performing as expected, it is different. Case in point, Pinelli vs Harrison. Pinelli was projected to be a 100 point player this season and had a decent shot at playing for Team Canada. He’s basically slightly over a point per game player and looks to have hit his ceiling as an 18 year old last season. On the other hand, you have Brett Harrison that wasn’t projected to score 100 points, probably around 80, and he is performing reasonably up to expectations considering the players he is surrounded by.

Under those circumstances, which player is worth more? They both produce similar points. Both are centres. One has significantly underperformed and the other is mostly on target After coming back from injury. How does that affect trade value?

I do feel there is a difference between a player that has underperformed on a bad team and a player that performs similarly on a bad team but doesn’t have nearly the same supporting cast. That is going to affect a player like Pinelli’s value. Going into the season, one would have suggested Pinelli was likely worth a 2022 1st plus picks. Now? I think that landscape has changed. He is now valued at the same level as a player like Brett Harrison, a decent 17 year old prospect forward not getting a lot of ice time plus 4-5 picks.

The Rangers will likely need to decide if they rather stay status quo or take a somewhat depressed trade return value for players that should have performed better. The only reason those players are available is because of lack of performance.

As Beast said, the Pinelli boys will be chatting and Franky has a no trade clause. IT may simply come down to whether they want to push the issue or not. It’s happened before.
Been quiet here in KW on the trade front. MM is liable to say he made his trades early with Constantini and the other 2 minor acquisitions. I doubt he does anything until the deadline. Usually complains about asking prices or not being offered what he believes the perceived value should be for specific players. Rangers are in a grey area. I think they would have to make far too many changes to even get through a round or two in the playoffs. That is if they go in that direction. They certainly are not going to compete with any teams in contention if they have a loaded draft cupboard and young skilled assets. As you have said before OMG the top squads are going to add and that in itself makes it difficult for bottom dwellers to compete at the deadline.
 
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OMG67

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Been quiet here in KW on the trade front. MM is liable to say he made his trades early with Constantini and the other 2 minor acquisitions. I doubt he does anything until the deadline. Usually complains about asking prices or not being offered what he believes the perceived value should be for specific players. Rangers are in a grey area. I think they would have to make far too many changes to even get through a round or two in the playoffs. That is if they go in that direction. They certainly are not going to compete with any teams in contention if they have a loaded draft cupboard and young skilled assets. As you have said before OMG the top squads are going to add and that in itself makes it difficult for bottom dwellers to compete at the deadline.
Not to beat a dead horse but if memory serves me correct, the Rangers budget is based on one playoff round of revenue. So, they may at least try to make the playoffs specifically to ensure they get enough revenue to break even on the season financially.
 

bobber

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Not to beat a dead horse but if memory serves me correct, the Rangers budget is based on one playoff round of revenue. So, they may at least try to make the playoffs specifically to ensure they get enough revenue to break even on the season financially.
You may be correct.
 

Purple Phart

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Prior to the start of this season, I had the Knights pegged to be at best, a 4th 0r 5th position team, and looking upward at the Rangers in the standings. London graduated it's primary offensive players, and would only be returning a core of weaker players who hadn't yet shown any indication of progression beyond secondary scorers. Somehow, my prognostication got reversed, and heading toward the Christmas break, those teams have managed to both overachieve, and underachieve. So, it begs the question : What is so significantly different between these 2 teams ?

As I see it, it's coaching. One coach identified his team's strengths & weaknesses, and got 3 significant players to shore up the weak areas. He then gave those players well defined roles to play, and worked toward strengthening individual weaknesses of the remaining players. A game plan was devised that took advantage of the team's strengths, and minimized the dependance on " elite type players." The result: Team began playing more as a team, and far less reliant on individual talent. That team is now " overachieving" and I'm pleasantly surprised to have been so far off in my initial assessment.

I've no doubt that the Rangers have players with talent. For whatever reason, they don't give the impression of a cohesive team working toward any specific goal. Maybe a reassessment is in order, and players given defined roles that take advantage of their strengths. That alone would place them in situations where they're more likely to succeed. It might also improve that area of player development, that some fans have identified as needing improvement.

Good luck, the rest of the way.
 

bobber

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Prior to the start of this season, I had the Knights pegged to be at best, a 4th 0r 5th position team, and looking upward at the Rangers in the standings. London graduated it's primary offensive players, and would only be returning a core of weaker players who hadn't yet shown any indication of progression beyond secondary scorers. Somehow, my prognostication got reversed, and heading toward the Christmas break, those teams have managed to both overachieve, and underachieve. So, it begs the question : What is so significantly different between these 2 teams ?

As I see it, it's coaching. One coach identified his team's strengths & weaknesses, and got 3 significant players to shore up the weak areas. He then gave those players well defined roles to play, and worked toward strengthening individual weaknesses of the remaining players. A game plan was devised that took advantage of the team's strengths, and minimized the dependance on " elite type players." The result: Team began playing more as a team, and far less reliant on individual talent. That team is now " overachieving" and I'm pleasantly surprised to have been so far off in my initial assessment.

I've no doubt that the Rangers have players with talent. For whatever reason, they don't give the impression of a cohesive team working toward any specific goal. Maybe a reassessment is in order, and players given defined roles that take advantage of their strengths. That alone would place them in situations where they're more likely to succeed. It might also improve that area of player development, that some fans have identified as needing improvement.

Good luck, the rest of the way.
Hi Purple. Great post. Really like the way London's defense plays. One of the best in the league. Hunter knows his stuff. London could be buyers and throw a wrench into a lot of other contender's plans. Presently hanging at the top of the west. In Kitchener we love the video coaches. Fixter was a great one too! Wonder where that guy is now?
 

rangersblues

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Hi Purple. Great post. Really like the way London's defense plays. One of the best in the league. Hunter knows his stuff. London could be buyers and throw a wrench into a lot of other contender's plans. Presently hanging at the top of the west. In Kitchener we love the video coaches. Fixter was a great one too! Wonder where that guy is now?
Funny (or sad) that you compare Dennis to Fixter. I've been thinking that too.

London always teaches all their players how to find open ice and exploit it. They tried some nice stretch passes too. Something I wish we'd teach in Kitchener.
 

GeoBlue

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Oct 21, 2017
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Just a glimmer of positive hope here. It has been said on these boards that there are only a few "beasts" in the league and almost anyone (especially in the West) can make some noise in the playoffs with the right moves. I noticed that the Team Canada junior roster only has 5 players from the OHL. Perhaps this speaks of the "talent" in the league as compared to the rest of the CHL.
 

ohloutsider

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Jan 13, 2016
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Just a glimmer of positive hope here. It has been said on these boards that there are only a few "beasts" in the league and almost anyone (especially in the West) can make some noise in the playoffs with the right moves. I noticed that the Team Canada junior roster only has 5 players from the OHL. Perhaps this speaks of the "talent" in the league as compared to the rest of the CHL.
The problem with the "high end" OHL talent is the fact they graduated to the NHL early this year.
 
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bobber

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Looking at goalie stats Vandenberg has better numbers than Constantini. Smaller sample size for the rookie. Do the Rangers play more desperate in front of Vandenberg? Also looking at 2005-2006 league wide rookie stats there is some real talent in the OHL. This comes down to scouting. Rangers are dead in the water in this category.
 
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