Kitchener Rangers 2022-23 Season Thread (Part 2)

[OMG67]

I believe they are not valuable partly because they were flawed players who our scouts totally missed on and partly because the coaching group this team has have done nothing for them to develop them and help them improve.

Are Pinelli, Schmidt and Valade flawed? Heck yeah. But don’t believe for a second that they wouldn’t be full fledged stars elsewhere. With any trace of development, these are big difference makers. And teams with good coaches may see that and know they can turn them around.

But do they pay based on what the player is showing as his worth or do they pay based on where their ceiling seems to be? That is the problem with Kitchener right now. The team should be performing at a much higher level and when they aren’t, it is a reflection on the quality players they have. If Pinelli were performing ot his potential or what his perceived potential should be, then his trade value creeps into a 2022 1st plus picks. But, he hasn’t shown that. He is probably worth an ok 17 year old and maybe as many as two 2nds and two 3rds max.

With the percenption of so many players being ont he market, it seems to be shaping up as a buyers market. Teams will make their wish lists and will pay for the players on that list. Is Pinelli on more than one or two lists as a primary target? I’m not sure he is right now. That makes it difficult because Kitchener would be negotiating against themselves. Then it gets to the point where if they can’t get what they perceive as fair value, do they trade for whatever the best return is regardless or do they hold out and keep him? I know Suzuki was held out of the market until the last second and Guelph ended up getting him for very little. I fear Pinelli may be set up as the same example.

 

[GeoBlue]

Brown doesn't have Serpa in his line up. Unless he missed something.

Brown called it a "maintenance" day originally but now saying he is a healthy scratch.

 

[bobber]

Brown called it a "maintenance" day originally but now saying he is a healthy scratch.

Food for thought. I have a premonition that some Ranger players will ask to be traded. The development here has stagnated over the last decade. Now it's almost nil. These kids have agents and parents that put a lot of time and effort into their hockey careers. I am sure there have been more than one inquiry on moving players. Parents do stick their nose in when things go sour. Great having a community owned team. There just has to be more to the experience at the Aud for STH other than beating the London Knights on the number of Teddy Bears tossed at one game annually. Forgot. Also, a couple of slices of "free pizza".

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Food for thought. I have a premonition that some Ranger players will ask to be traded. The development here has stagnated over the last decade. Now it's almost nil. These kids have agents and parents that put a lot of time and effort into their hockey careers. I am sure there have been more than one inquiry on moving players. Parents do stick their nose in when things go sour. Great having a community owned team. There just has to be more to the experience at the Aud for STH other than beating the London Knights on the number of Teddy Bears tossed at one game annually. Forgot. Also, a couple of slices of "free pizza".

I think one reason we haven't seen as many trade requests as other middling, struggling teams (both this year so far, and in the past) is the "country club" atmosphere. Perhaps a problem of the ride here being too cushy and "fun" despite the kind of mediocrity that would have guys sitting at home until a move was made if it was another team without the amenities.

 

[dirty12]

Just based on regular season alone, I would expect if Pinelli was dealt to a top contender, he would at least be a point a game player.

And to be honest, Schmidt is a top pairing D on most teams this year. If he were traded to a stacked contender, even if he was the number three, he’s worth at least a couple 2nds.

Agreed, Schmidt is a #2-3 D. If Sawyer is worth 2,3 and Hislop roughly the same, Schmidt had to be worth 2, 3, 4, 4

 

[nedquest1]

Food for thought. I have a premonition that some Ranger players will ask to be traded. The development here has stagnated over the last decade. Now it's almost nil. These kids have agents and parents that put a lot of time and effort into their hockey careers. I am sure there have been more than one inquiry on moving players. Parents do stick their nose in when things go sour. Great having a community owned team. There just has to be more to the experience at the Aud for STH other than beating the London Knights on the number of Teddy Bears tossed at one game annually. Forgot. Also, a couple of slices of "free pizza".

Long time lurker. Just came on to say this is an insane comment. Development has stagnated over the last decade? Arber Xhekaj, a kid the Rangers found through OHL free agency, signed and developed into a beast of a player, is now the 4th top scoring rookie d-man in the NHL.

Also as a Season Ticket member myself, would love to know exactly what you’d like from the club? Are you complaining about the bonuses they put on top of the hockey they provide you orr…. For me I’ve always had fun just attending the games.

Also if I was an OHL aged kid I’d rather go to Kitchener than many of the other options in the league.

 

[rangersblues]

Long time lurker. Just came on to say this is an insane comment. Development has stagnated over the last decade? Arber Xhekaj, a kid the Rangers found through OHL free agency, signed and developed into a beast of a player, is now the 4th top scoring rookie d-man in the NHL.

Also as a Season Ticket member myself, would love to know exactly what you’d like from the club? Are you complaining about the bonuses they put on top of the hockey they provide you orr…. For me I’ve always had fun just attending the games.

Also if I was an OHL aged kid I’d rather go to Kitchener than many of the other options in the league.

Welcome. New opinions are always appreciated.

I can't speak for bobber. For myself I'd like to see some first round picks get developed in the organization. It won't happen every year but our last one was Radek Faksa in 2013. I'd say that's quite a while. Xhekaj was nice but few and far between.

I'd also like to see us compete for a championship a little more frequently. Last conference championship - 2008. If Kitchener is a destination that players desire ( I also believe it is) and we attract the best players, why the drought? We should be a "have" franchise with our fan base and facilities. I don't believe we are.

Glad you enjoy the games, but many are frustrated.

 

[robertmac43]

Happy for this guy!

 

[Rangers True Blue]

Pinelli must have heard you. Quite the game last night. No passengers on the team. Vandenberg was solid. Only goal by Guelph came on a 5 on 3 near the end. Now they need to repeat it all on Tuesday.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Came to tip my cap to Vandenberg. After a rough start to the year with mono and a first game nightmare, he has looked every bit the part.

 

[EvenSteven]

Came to tip my cap to Vandenberg. After a rough start to the year with mono and a first game nightmare, he has looked every bit the part.

He had a hell of a game last night. Almost unfair to lose the shutout on the late 5 on 3.

He’s had more good moments than bad this year.

Pinelli must have heard you. Quite the game last night. No passengers on the team. Vandenberg was solid. Only goal by Guelph came on a 5 on 3 near the end. Now they need to repeat it all on Tuesday.

I suppose this keeps MM in a holding pattern?

If nothing else, it’s games like this that keeps Pinelli’s value high should we eventually sell. He’s right up near the top in goals per game this year.

 

[Gondrex]

Yes, and once again, Sop has been consistent in his play and offence. Sop, Andonovski, Rehkopf and Vandenberg currently look like the few guys who appear to have made some strides forward from a year ago - just from my view.

Was happy to see the trick from Pinelli. Aside from those bad decisions penalty-wise now and then, I admit to likely being one of the few Pinelli fans on the board .....which is fine. If I did my calculation correctly, (extrapolating a bit here) if he had 25 games in as of today, then comparatively he could be close to / amongst the top 10 in the league scoring.

On the other hand I want to also point out a flaw in one of my posts from a week ago. In trying to provide examples of the overall inconsistency on this team I had mistakenly used Rehkopf as one example - i.e. lumpy goal production. Happy to say that within the course of only a week he is proving me wrong .

 

[bobber]

Long time lurker. Just came on to say this is an insane comment. Development has stagnated over the last decade? Arber Xhekaj, a kid the Rangers found through OHL free agency, signed and developed into a beast of a player, is now the 4th top scoring rookie d-man in the NHL.

Also as a Season Ticket member myself, would love to know exactly what you’d like from the club? Are you complaining about the bonuses they put on top of the hockey they provide you orr…. For me I’ve always had fun just attending the games.

Also if I was an OHL aged kid I’d rather go to Kitchener than many of the other options in the league

I respect your opinion. Glad you enjoy the hockey. We were long time STH also. Gave it up just before Covid struck. We enjoyed going to games in winter as it got us out of the house. As a STH the excitement started to disappear. Fans around us were losing interest also. We never drank alcohol at games even though it might have helped recently. Some would drink those $10 beers to make the hockey palatable. I won't get into what I would like to see from the Rangers. You claim to be a long-time lurker. You should have read all the issues fans have by now. It's all here in plain English. It has to be more than a novelty for real diehard hockey fans. One man's bread is another poison.

 

[bobber]

Enjoyed watching the game last night on the tube. Rangers shorthanded kept the wheels going the whole game. Vandenburg looked solid in net. Pinelli was unstoppable. The Storm looked lost most of the game. Almost a reverse of the last time these teams met. Not sure what it is but there has to be something in the water in the region.

 

[bobber]

He had a hell of a game last night. Almost unfair to lose the shutout on the late 5 on 3.

He’s had more good moments than bad this year.


I suppose this keeps MM in a holding pattern?

If nothing else, it’s games like this that keeps Pinelli’s value high should we eventually sell up near the top in goals per game this year.

Despite what us armchair GMs here think about the value of certain players the real GMs usually have a different view. Teams in contention will pay up for Pinelli IMO if the Rangers decide to go that way this season. I am always surprised at the assets some teams going for it are willing to give up acquiring the top players on other franchises.

 

[EvenSteven]

Despite what us armchair GMs here think about the value of certain players the real GMs usually have a different view. Teams in contention will pay up for Pinelli IMO if the Rangers decide to go that way this season. I am always surprised at the assets some teams going for it are willing to give up acquiring the top players on other franchises.

And a team like Ottawa, with their vast cupboard of high picks, could easily tack an an extra 2nd with their eyes closed to get a deal done if Pinelli was put on the market and if they targeted him.

That’s how prices ramp up at the deadline. This may be a buyer’s market, as has been said on here, but if a team wants a certain player bad enough, they’ll pay to get him.

 

[TheBlueMonster]

Long time lurker. Just came on to say this is an insane comment. Development has stagnated over the last decade? Arber Xhekaj, a kid the Rangers found through OHL free agency, signed and developed into a beast of a player, is now the 4th top scoring rookie d-man in the NHL.

Also as a Season Ticket member myself, would love to know exactly what you’d like from the club? Are you complaining about the bonuses they put on top of the hockey they provide you orr…. For me I’ve always had fun just attending the games.

Also if I was an OHL aged kid I’d rather go to Kitchener than many of the other options in the league.

If your only argument is that 1 player has developed, than its not much of an argument already.

Carson Rehkopf is the best forward prospect we've arguably had since Gabriel Landeskog. Faksa was a 1st rounder who played 3 seasons in the OHL and his best was his 1st season. That's very telling to me, all due respect to Faksa.

Development has 100% stagnated over the last decade. The original poster is correct. More specifically over the last 4-5 seasons.

Arber Xhekaj took advantage of an opportunity, as he is in the NHL currently and it's paying off. Credit to the development team but also credit to the player.

I am a season ticket holder as well. Have been for a long time and its nice that you have fun at games. As season ticket holders, meeting in the lounge at 6:30 with all our hockey friends on a Friday was the thing i looked forward to the most. But after losing most/nearly all of our season ticket perks. Lost our ticket books, And essentially lost our savings per game (Do the math, we're currently only saving a little over a buck a game I believe) A lot of people are pissed and honestly this will be my last season.

As many have pointed out, the organization will use season ticket holder support to justify seasons where we should be selling such as this one. Every year at the end of the season an emphasis is on, well we have X amount of paying customers who we need to entertain. They don't look for solutions. They just try to use the excuse and after using it for about a bakers dozens year's, its getting old.

The old boys club needs to dissolve, that's what a lot of us would like to see.

I too would be coming to Kitchener if given the opportunity but we're currently seeing that this isn't the case for many players right now. You can only rely on what is now ancient history and the arena to do the recruiting so long. Development, a fan base that is clearly shrinking in size, track record in developing NHL prospects, coaching track record, Dennis is our 6th in 10 years and quite frankly I think we're closer to a 7th now, its no wonder our 1st and our 2nd rounder would look the other way.

Welcome to the boards none the less. I can appreciate different opinions, but most of the posters you see here aren't casual fans. Lots of us came over from the Noof, and a large number of us are former and current season ticket holders who are frustrated. This hasn't just been a 8 week feeling. This is has been going on for a number of years.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

If your only argument is that 1 player has developed, than its not much of an argument already.

Carson Rehkopf is the best forward prospect we've arguably had since Gabriel Landeskog. Faksa was a 1st rounder who played 3 seasons in the OHL and his best was his 1st season. That's very telling to me, all due respect to Faksa.

Just a note on Faksa, he struggled with illness and injury and iirc home sickness during his second season.

The "status" you get in Kitchener as a Ranger, 2 university options for schooling and fraternizing, plenty of bars that will let them in underage (I remember seeing Reider at Phil's and doing the math lol)...and an organization with good facilities and a laid back country club atmosphere is enticing to kids even if on ice development is lacking.

This organization in theory has all of the things necessary to have a great team most years, but it seems they let all the externalities do the recruiting instead of having the on ice development speak for itself (in addition to the "extras" players get in their experience here versus smaller market teams).

 

[EvenSteven]

If your only argument is that 1 player has developed, than its not much of an argument already.

Carson Rehkopf is the best forward prospect we've arguably had since Gabriel Landeskog. Faksa was a 1st rounder who played 3 seasons in the OHL and his best was his 1st season. That's very telling to me, all due respect to Faksa.

Development has 100% stagnated over the last decade. The original poster is correct. More specifically over the last 4-5 seasons.

Arber Xhekaj took advantage of an opportunity, as he is in the NHL currently and it's paying off. Credit to the development team but also credit to the player.

I am a season ticket holder as well. Have been for a long time and its nice that you have fun at games. As season ticket holders, meeting in the lounge at 6:30 with all our hockey friends on a Friday was the thing i looked forward to the most. But after losing most/nearly all of our season ticket perks. Lost our ticket books, And essentially lost our savings per game (Do the math, we're currently only saving a little over a buck a game I believe) A lot of people are pissed and honestly this will be my last season.

As many have pointed out, the organization will use season ticket holder support to justify seasons where we should be selling such as this one. Every year at the end of the season an emphasis is on, well we have X amount of paying customers who we need to entertain. They don't look for solutions. They just try to use the excuse and after using it for about a bakers dozens year's, its getting old.

The old boys club needs to dissolve, that's what a lot of us would like to see.

I too would be coming to Kitchener if given the opportunity but we're currently seeing that this isn't the case for many players right now. You can only rely on what is now ancient history and the arena to do the recruiting so long. Development, a fan base that is clearly shrinking in size, track record in developing NHL prospects, coaching track record, Dennis is our 6th in 10 years and quite frankly I think we're closer to a 7th now, its no wonder our 1st and our 2nd rounder would look the other way.

Welcome to the boards none the less. I can appreciate different opinions, but most of the posters you see here aren't casual fans. Lots of us came over from the Noof, and a large number of us are former and current season ticket holders who are frustrated. This hasn't just been a 8 week feeling. This is has been going on for a number of years.

The last two times we finished out of the playoffs, we drafted blue chippers who should have been no doubters for long NHL careers based on their status coming into the OHL.

Ryan Murphy’s development regressed after year two thanks to the mishandling of his development by Spott and company. The former sure fire NHLer, with Makar and Hughes talent, became an afterthought in pro circles.

Adam Mascherin has NHL size under today’s standards. He scored at this level but it’s telling that the top forward taken in the OHL draft, was one entry level contract and done without playing an NHL game, and it’s off the Europe.

The likes of Hage and Longacre probably couldn’t tell you who Murphy and Mascherin are, but their agents certainly can.

 

[TheBlueMonster]

Just a note on Faksa, he struggled with illness and injury and iirc home sickness during his second season.

Ahhhh, yes that is correct.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

The last two times we finished out of the playoffs, we drafted blue chippers who should have been no doubters for long NHL careers based on their status coming into the OHL.

Ryan Murphy’s development regressed after year two thanks to the mishandling of his development by Spott and company. The former sure fire NHLer, with Makar and Hughes talent, became an afterthought in pro circles.

Adam Mascherin has NHL size under today’s standards. He scored at this level but it’s telling that the top forward taken in the OHL draft, was one entry level contract and done without playing an NHL game, and it’s off the Europe.

The likes of Hage and Longacre probably couldn’t tell you who Murphy and Mascherin are, but their agents certainly can.

I don't really blame the Rangers for Mascherin's trajectory...he seems to be a bit of a headcase off the ice to some degree. He was a 2nd rounder who could have signed in Florida but he got pissy with them for some reason and openly bad mouthed them (even in OHL intermission interviews). He was best friends with Bracco, which would lead me to some speculation. He had good minor league success, jetting to europe seems like another in a long line of strange Mascherin decisions.

I think saying Murphy had Hughes or Makar talent is a bit of a stretch....certainly not a Makar level player with even great development imo. I was a kid at the time and would go get autohraphs, I always wondered how Murphy would make pro's with his frame; just too slender and not a lot of room for strength to grow. He had excellent athletic abilities, but his vision wasn't all that good (especially when rushing the puck) and his game away from the puck left a lot to be desired. Spott definitely helped make those things worse as opposed to trying to fix them though.

 

[bobber]

I don't really blame the Rangers for Mascherin's trajectory...he seems to be a bit of a headcase off the ice to some degree. He was a 2nd rounder who could have signed in Florida but he got pissy with them for some reason and openly bad mouthed them (even in OHL intermission interviews). He was best friends with Bracco, which would lead me to some speculation. He had good minor league success, jetting to europe seems like another in a long line of strange Mascherin decisions.

I think saying Murphy had Hughes or Makar talent is a bit of a stretch....certainly not a Makar level player with even great development imo. I was a kid at the time and would go get autohraphs, I always wondered how Murphy would make pro's with his frame; just too slender and not a lot of room for strength to grow. He had excellent athletic abilities, but his vision wasn't all that good (especially when rushing the puck) and his game away from the puck left a lot to be desired. Spott definitely helped make those things worse as opposed to trying to fix them though.

Mascherin made some weird decisions after leaving the Rangers. He was here recently on the ice at practices and basically said he would make some sort of announcement. A player can get buried quick in pro hockey if they start making demands and burn bridges. He really never put up the numbers in pro to make an impact.

 

[TheBlueMonster]

I don't really blame the Rangers for Mascherin's trajectory...he seems to be a bit of a headcase off the ice to some degree. He was a 2nd rounder who could have signed in Florida but he got pissy with them for some reason and openly bad mouthed them (even in OHL intermission interviews). He was best friends with Bracco, which would lead me to some speculation. He had good minor league success, jetting to europe seems like another in a long line of strange Mascherin decisions.

I think saying Murphy had Hughes or Makar talent is a bit of a stretch....certainly not a Makar level player with even great development imo. I was a kid at the time and would go get autohraphs, I always wondered how Murphy would make pro's with his frame; just too slender and not a lot of room for strength to grow. He had excellent athletic abilities, but his vision wasn't all that good (especially when rushing the puck) and his game away from the puck left a lot to be desired. Spott definitely helped make those things worse as opposed to trying to fix them though.

Murphy was certainly enigmatic lol.


His rookie and draft season was unreal. I can still remember him in the playoffs as a rookie and he was cool as a cucumber. Simple game but knew when to use offense. Dan Kelly and John Moores impact on him was massive. Then he was given the keys in his draft year and he truly didn't disappoint. Was such a beast. Then he gets sent back from Carolina and got ran in Owen Sound and honestly he was never the same at that point.

His draft season, I can see the comparison possibly to a Quinn Hughes. After the injury and playing in Steve Spots systems, it wasn't ever going to be. Offense was never an issue. His production in the NHL was fine. His play away from the puck as you mentioned in Junior in his last two seasons left a lot to be desired but in the NHL it was non existent lol.

 

[nedquest1]

If your only argument is that 1 player has developed, than its not much of an argument already.

Carson Rehkopf is the best forward prospect we've arguably had since Gabriel Landeskog. Faksa was a 1st rounder who played 3 seasons in the OHL and his best was his 1st season. That's very telling to me, all due respect to Faksa.

Development has 100% stagnated over the last decade. The original poster is correct. More specifically over the last 4-5 seasons.

Arber Xhekaj took advantage of an opportunity, as he is in the NHL currently and it's paying off. Credit to the development team but also credit to the player.

I am a season ticket holder as well. Have been for a long time and its nice that you have fun at games. As season ticket holders, meeting in the lounge at 6:30 with all our hockey friends on a Friday was the thing i looked forward to the most. But after losing most/nearly all of our season ticket perks. Lost our ticket books, And essentially lost our savings per game (Do the math, we're currently only saving a little over a buck a game I believe) A lot of people are pissed and honestly this will be my last season.

As many have pointed out, the organization will use season ticket holder support to justify seasons where we should be selling such as this one. Every year at the end of the season an emphasis is on, well we have X amount of paying customers who we need to entertain. They don't look for solutions. They just try to use the excuse and after using it for about a bakers dozens year's, its getting old.

The old boys club needs to dissolve, that's what a lot of us would like to see.

I too would be coming to Kitchener if given the opportunity but we're currently seeing that this isn't the case for many players right now. You can only rely on what is now ancient history and the arena to do the recruiting so long. Development, a fan base that is clearly shrinking in size, track record in developing NHL prospects, coaching track record, Dennis is our 6th in 10 years and quite frankly I think we're closer to a 7th now, its no wonder our 1st and our 2nd rounder would look the other way.

Welcome to the boards none the less. I can appreciate different opinions, but most of the posters you see here aren't casual fans. Lots of us came over from the Noof, and a large number of us are former and current season ticket holders who are frustrated. This hasn't just been a 8 week feeling. This is has been going on for a number of years.

Not my only argument nor the only player I think the Rangers have developed in the last 10 years. Just an example. For sure credit to Arber, but he wouldn’t have even been drafted into the OHL if not for the Rangers.

Also my definition of a successful development may be a bit different than some of the posters here. I don’t think a success is necessarily an NHL legend, many of the guys we have seen the last couple of years have gone on to have terrific success in USports and get an education at the same time. Kitchener is also one of very few community teams - one of the reasons I keep returning as an season ticket holder is the community impact. My money from it goes back into Kw - I may be on my own in this opinion too.

I do wish we could pull more 1st rounders - I think the OHL as a whole could do a better job of fighting drafting battles with the NCAA.

Also your entitled to your opinion of what you value or deem you have lost lately as a STH, but every team is going paperless with tickets now - I liked the calendar they put out this year to have a physical gift to replace a bit. But I guess I don’t value those physical fancy tickets as much as maybe some do. Also post-covid when everything is expensive and inflation is out of control - the amount I pay for exciting hockey (in my opinion) is a fair price.

 

[Gondrex]

But do they pay based on what the player is showing as his worth or do they pay based on where their ceiling seems to be? That is the problem with Kitchener right now. The team should be performing at a much higher level and when they aren’t, it is a reflection on the quality players they have. If Pinelli were performing ot his potential or what his perceived potential should be, then his trade value creeps into a 2022 1st plus picks. But, he hasn’t shown that. He is probably worth an ok 17 year old and maybe as many as two 2nds and two 3rds max.

With the percenption of so many players being ont he market, it seems to be shaping up as a buyers market. Teams will make their wish lists and will pay for the players on that list. Is Pinelli on more than one or two lists as a primary target? I’m not sure he is right now. That makes it difficult because Kitchener would be negotiating against themselves. Then it gets to the point where if they can’t get what they perceive as fair value, do they trade for whatever the best return is regardless or do they hold out and keep him? I know Suzuki was held out of the market until the last second and Guelph ended up getting him for very little. I fear Pinelli may be set up as the same example.

Good post as usual OMG.

If it indeed turns out to be a buyer's market as you say, then as absurd as it sounds when staring at the standings, perhaps MM may find it too irresistible to not pick up a few of those "cheap" assets and take a run at it after all. With each loss, a large part of my brain says sell. However I still recognize the fact that this team is likely underachieving. There are some potentially good pieces to this team. Two of them are currently injured.

Of course, my above thought comes with one huge caveat - a replacement of the current orchestrater behind the bench. I hate to pin point the problem, but as Einstein once famously stated: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

It's been discussed many times here on this board. Most of the current roster returned from last year, along with the addition of some impressive talent - one of whom I would (arguably) consider world class - Mesar. So how can this team's record be worse than last year? I can't really put it any other way.