Kitchener Rangers 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 5)

[ohloutsider]

The only way you can play 5 16 yr olds if you require 1 by trade. Because the only 16 yr olds that can be traded are 1st rounders the league wants them to play so hence the accomodation to let them all play. Not sure what they do if a team trades for 2 first rounders?

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Missy acquired two 16 year olds at the deadline and they then played 5 regularly post deadline.

I put together trade scenarios where we’d acquire defected Henry B, then at the deadline move Rehkopf for a package including a 1st rounder.

That would have given us 6 who’d have been able to play regularly on the roster.

So is it a trade deadline rule (like the window that opens for trading 16 years olds then), or would it apply if done to start the season?

Hunter and/or Rehk will likely land us a 1st from this draft, which is something management has to consider. Again, in a vacuum it's a good move, it's also not the only move for us when we have to offload Hunter this year.

 

[Squirrel88]

Missy acquired two 16 year olds at the deadline and they then played 5 regularly post deadline.

I put together trade scenarios where we’d acquire defected Henry B, then at the deadline move Rehkopf for a package including a 1st rounder.

That would have given us 6 who’d have been able to play regularly on the roster.

Does that rule apply in the same way if the 16 yo player is acquired prior to the season?

I don't know the answer, just asking.

 

[EvenSteven]

The only way you can play 5 16 yr olds if you require 1 by trade. Because the only 16 yr olds that can be traded are 1st rounders the league wants them to play so hence the accomodation to let them all play. Not sure what they do if a team trades for 2 first rounders?

Missy did that last year. Van Volson and Martone. That bumped them to 5.

 

[dirty12]

I've never heard that, but I don't doubt you. Could you provide a source so I could review it?

Just last season Mississauga played Karmiris, Reenders, VonRichter, and the acquired Martone and VanVolsen.

 

[EvenSteven]

You have to wonder if there shouldn’t be an amendment made to the rules regarding the number of 16 year olds a team can have on A cards.

We have a situation in Kitchener where possibly five ‘07’s could make this team.

Is it fair to hold a kid back if he’s good enough to play on the team simply because of a numbers game?

There are amendments to the rule already. If you trade for them, you can ice more than four 16 year olds.

Perhaps another amendment can be made whereby a team can ice five if they have two players who were taken in the 1st round. Or perhaps if a team didn’t ice four 16 year olds the year prior, they could ice an extra one the following year. Or instead of the max being four per team, it’s capped at 80 league wide.

All this only if a team truly more than four legit OHL calibre 16 year olds. We’re not talking about adding extras for the sake of adding them.

Just throwing this out there for discussion.

 

[dirty12]

Just last season Mississauga played Karmiris, Reenders, VonRichter, and the acquired Martone and VanVolsen.

Edit: a little late, repetitive

 

[Kingpin794]

You have to wonder if there shouldn’t be an amendment made to the rules regarding the number of 16 year olds a team can have on A cards.

We have a situation in Kitchener where possibly five ‘07’s could make this team.

Is it fair to hold a kid back if he’s good enough to play on the team simply because of a numbers game?

There are amendments to the rule already. If you trade for them, you can ice more than four 16 year olds.

Perhaps another amendment can be made whereby a team can ice five if they have two players who were taken in the 1st round. Or perhaps if a team didn’t ice four 16 year olds the year prior, they could ice an extra one the following year. Or instead of the max being four per team, it’s capped at 80 league wide.

All this only if a team truly more than four legit OHL calibre 16 year olds. We’re not talking about adding extras for the sake of adding them.

Just throwing this out there for discussion.

See I’m of the opposite idea. I think people over estimate how ready most players outside of the first two rounds are. Most guys drafted after the second would be better served getting big minutes in the GOJHL, OJHL, etc then coming in full time at 17.

 

[Squirrel88]

So, I went down a bit of a google rabbit hole this morning. Not sure whether the document I found is still accurate or not, but the limit on player ages is set at the Hockey Canada level. According to the HC development policy manual I found online:

The number of sixteen (16) year olds in Major Junior, as per the regulation, may be an
average per team as opposed to the maximum per team if the league chooses. For
example, in the OHL there would be a league cap of eighty (80) in 2005/2006 or an
average of four (4) per team (20 x 4) instead of a maximum of four (4) per team. The
total number of sixteen (16) year olds does not change. This simply takes the averaging
provisions of Year Three and applies them to the first two (2) years of the CDM. The
Major Junior Leagues agree to continue tracking the sixteen (16) year olds (number of
games played, etc) and provide all relevant data to Hockey Canada for research
purposes.

This would explain why 16 yo players can be traded at the deadline. It doesn't impact the overall numbers at all. The hypothetical OTT/KIT trade could still happen prior to the season, provided that OTT agreed that it would only roster 3 16 yo players for this season.

Note that Jr. B is limited to 2 16 yo players per team. I didn't know that, either.

 

[Squirrel88]

See I’m of the opposite idea. I think people over estimate how ready most players outside of the first two rounds are. Most guys drafted after the second would be better served getting big minutes in the GOJHL, OJHL, etc then coming in full time at 17.

I agree with this point. It is unlikely that there are more than 80 players in Ontario in any one year that would be disadvantaged by getting more ice time and responsibility at a lower level, where they would presumably also enjoy more success.

We all tout (and envy) the London modal, and the Hunters have a history of giving rookies limited opportunities in the OHL level. Evangelista and Cowan come to mind as a couple of recent examples of players that didn't do much in the OHL as a 16 yo, but became high NHL picks a year later. Probably more teams should follow that modal. I wonder if part of the issue is using an offer of a roster spot and playing time is part of the pitch to get them to sign, but that is just idle speculation.

 

[rangersblues]

So is it a trade deadline rule (like the window that opens for trading 16 years olds then), or would it apply if done to start the season?

Hunter and/or Rehk will likely land us a 1st from this draft, which is something management has to consider. Again, in a vacuum it's a good move, it's also not the only move for us when we have to offload Hunter this year.

I don't think Hunter will land us a first rounder. Rehkopf could but he has a ways to go.

 

[EvenSteven]

I don't think Hunter will land us a first rounder. Rehkopf could but he has a ways to go.

Agree on Hunter. Rehkopf could if he’s dealt this year.

 

[EvenSteven]

See I’m of the opposite idea. I think people over estimate how ready most players outside of the first two rounds are. Most guys drafted after the second would be better served getting big minutes in the GOJHL, OJHL, etc then coming in full time at 17.

I’m not looking for every team to be able to ice more than 4 16 year olds. But, there may be situations here and there where a small number of teams may find themselves with more than four who are certainly qualified to play full-time in the OHL at 16. Say a team has 5 picks in the first three rounds for example.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I don't think Hunter will land us a first rounder. Rehkopf could but he has a ways to go.

I guess we'll see. Top pairing 19year old NHL drafted D tend to get that, if not then many 2nds. Rehkopf is already a 30 goal guy on an unbelievably bad team last year and has 2 years of eligibility left. You don't trade him if he doesn't get out a 1st.

 

[EvenSteven]

I guess we'll see. Top pairing 19year old NHL drafted D tend to get that, if not then many 2nds. Rehkopf is already a 30 goal guy on an unbelievably bad team last year and has 2 years of eligibility left. You don't trade him if he doesn't get out a 1st.

The only way that Hunter brings us a first is if a team has already emptied out their draft cupboard. That was sort of the way Sarnia traded away their 1st last year.

Of course, I may be wrong on that. But I do see Kyrou return for him.

 

[frontsfan67]

Hey Kitchener fans! Who is your OA’s for the year?

 

[EvenSteven]

LW Mitchell Martin.
LW Matthew Sop.
D Simon Motew

 

[EvenSteven]

I’m giving all 3 of the 2023 draft kids the potential to be elite players. Remember the amount of ice time Derek Roy got as a young player….I truly believed that helped him turn into the OHL player he was which was one of the best in the CHL his last year. Give the kids ice with some good older players and let them develop / play. You bury them on the 4th line or in press box that doesn’t help them. Let them make mistakes and give them PP and maybe PK time if they are that type of player. This is the perfect year for that.

Forwards:

Matthew Sop - Carson Rehkopf - Tanner Lam

Matheas Stark - Cameron Mercer - Mitch Martin

Adrian Misaljevic - Luca Romano - Trent Swick

Lucas Ellinas - Kyle Morey - Justin Bottineau

Antonino Pugliese (not at camp...status?)


Defense:

Matthew Andonovski - Hunter Brzustewicz

Cameron Reid - Simon Motew

Tomáš Hamara - Gabriel Runco

Blair Scott

Andrew MacNiel - can’t play more then 10 games

Goaltenders:

Jackson Parsons

Luca DiFelice

This, for opening night:

I’m going to be shopping all graduating forwards who hold value. Essentially, Martin and Sop.

So I’m not playing either out of position. I want to give them every opportunity to boost their trade value. Both are LWers. And I agree we try to spread the youth throughout the lineup.

So:

Martin. Rehkopf. Miseljevic.

Sop. Romano. Bottineau.

Swick. Mercer. Lam

Ellinas. Stark. Pugliese.

Morey.

I’m playing Martin and Sop in their positions. If / when one or both are traded, I promote Swick and Ellinas, in that order, onto the top six LW, for now. Bottineau and Mercer, both centers who have played the wing, can be interchangeable.

I have a top line of veterans. I understand wanting to get the 07‘s spread throughout the lineup, but one on each of lines two, three and four makes sense to me. They can all be interchangeable among those lines as well. And no doubt, when earned, as we saw with 16 years old Pinelli and Rehkopf, they will likely also see meaningful power-play time eventually.

 

[rangersblues]

I guess we'll see. Top pairing 19year old NHL drafted D tend to get that, if not then many 2nds. Rehkopf is already a 30 goal guy on an unbelievably bad team last year and has 2 years of eligibility left. You don't trade him if he doesn't get out a 1st.

You would have to jog my memory for a comparable that has gotten a first round draft pick - recently or even long ago. Hunter was a 3rd round pick. Seems to me not many players have had first rounders come back.

Rangers weren't an unbelievably bad team last year. They had unbelievably bad results. And Rehkopf was part of it like it or not.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

You would have to jog my memory for a comparable that has gotten a first round draft pick - recently or even long ago. Hunter was a 3rd round pick. Seems to me not many players have had first rounders come back.

Rangers weren't an unbelievably bad team last year. They had unbelievably bad results. And Rehkopf was part of it like it or not.

They were an unbelievably bad team primarily as a result of their usage by Dennis. It's clear enough to me, and was to everyone during the season, that it's not even up for debate imo. "Unbelievably bad" vs. "unbelievably bad results" might as well be a distinction without a difference. Good players don't make a good team on their own. They were a horrible team most of the year and the results correspond to that.

Rehkopf got 30 goals despite being bounced all over the place (3 different lines, LW C and sometimes RW), and playing significant time on the 3rd line. He was far from one of the reasons why they were bad; everyone a part of a team shares in the results, it doesn't mean a whole lot about an individual player especially with the uniquely bad coaching situation.
You're not high on the players, that's fine, we can agree to disagree in our evaluations of these 2. We'll have a better idea in a couple months regardless.

 

[Storm and Rangers]

Two questions

1. What is the roster size limit for OHL teams?

2. Is there any sort of database that has an updated version of which picks each team has (the old database hasn't been updated in a while)

Thanks

 

[Jives]

1. Has to be. I don’t know the number. I know they is a player max each year. So you can’t keep trading players. You eventually will run out of cards.

2. Follow @Generalsupdates on Twitter for a very good complete spreadsheet of draft picks.

 

[Habsrule]

Misaljevic - Rehkopf - Martin
Swick - Sop - Romano
Ellinas - Mercer - Lam
Pugliese - Bottineau - Stark
Morey

-I’m not happy having Misaljevic on the top line but I believe he will be the Rangers breakout player
-Sop should be on the top line but him and Rehkopf are the only centres who can provide good offence. It is best to split them up until Romano proves that he can play as the second line centre. I know Romano is a centre but I would like to see him in a second like role but on the wing where it is less pressure to start
-third and fourth lines are pretty interchangeable. I have Morey as my 13th forward

 

[dirty12]

So, I went down a bit of a google rabbit hole this morning. Not sure whether the document I found is still accurate or not, but the limit on player ages is set at the Hockey Canada level. According to the HC development policy manual I found online:

The number of sixteen (16) year olds in Major Junior, as per the regulation, may be an
average per team as opposed to the maximum per team if the league chooses. For
example, in the OHL there would be a league cap of eighty (80) in 2005/2006 or an
average of four (4) per team (20 x 4) instead of a maximum of four (4) per team. The
total number of sixteen (16) year olds does not change. This simply takes the averaging
provisions of Year Three and applies them to the first two (2) years of the CDM. The
Major Junior Leagues agree to continue tracking the sixteen (16) year olds (number of
games played, etc) and provide all relevant data to Hockey Canada for research
purposes.

This would explain why 16 yo players can be traded at the deadline. It doesn't impact the overall numbers at all. The hypothetical OTT/KIT trade could still happen prior to the season, provided that OTT agreed that it would only roster 3 16 yo players for this season.

The ‘67s might only be able to have 3 true rookies reach 10 games for a full player card. Unless it was changed, the rule is the first two selections, plus any other two (wild cards).
So Missassaga could have possibly had six true rookies on full cards because they had the first selection of the Petes and Sting.

Note that Jr. B is limited to 2 16 yo players per team. I didn't know that, either.

 

[Squirrel88]

The ‘67s might only be able to have 3 true rookies reach 10 games for a full player card. Unless it was changed, the rule is the first two selections, plus any other two (wild cards).
So Missassaga could have possibly had six true rookies on full cards because they had the first selection of the Petes and Sting.

Good point. Also of possible relevance (depending on how all this works), London has a 'slot' available because they never intended to sign their first round pick.

And I think you are right on how Miss ended up with 6 - when Sarnia traded Martone, they also traded the 16 yo 'slot' that he occupied. Sarnia would not have been able to go and sign another rookie to an A card. The important limiting number appears to be 80 (20 teams and 4 players).