Kitchener Rangers 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 5)

[EvenSteven]

Mark me down for not making this trade.

Do you mean a two-part Henry B trade where Rehkopf is involved? Or trading for Henry B at all?

 

[rangersblues]

Do you mean a two-part Henry B trade where Rehkopf is involved? Or trading for Henry B at all?

Definitely not Rehkopf. I don't want anything muddying up the return we should be getting for him.

I'm still not seeing the infatuation with a player who didn't make USNTDP team except for his brother plays for the Rangers.

 

[EvenSteven]

Definitely not Rehkopf. I don't want anything muddying up the return we should be getting for him.
I'm still not seeing the infatuation with a player who didn't make USNTDP team except for his brother plays for the Rangers.

 

[tjziel]

Well didn’t see this coming but Henry Brzustewicz is off to London wow!

 

[EvenSteven]

If London is interested in the player, there’s no reason why they aren’t kicking tires. Kitchener may be the favourite based on HB saying openly he wanted to play in Kitchener, but London can outbid Kitchener.
HB could just accept a deal to London instead of Kitchener. A little closer to home. One of the top franchises in the country. Excellent record developing players.
There are worse places to play.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Do you mean a two-part Henry B trade where Rehkopf is involved? Or trading for Henry B at all?

Not trading for him at the suspected cost. Let's get out this bare bones draft cupboard rut.
Wasn't HB ranked 2nd round talent?
Edited to add..Ok....just saw London got him.
Happy we kept the picks

 

[dirty12]

Not trading for him at the suspected cost. Let's get out this bare bones draft cupboard rut.
Wasn't HB ranked 2nd round talent?
Edited to add..Ok....just saw London got him.
Happy we kept the picks

It probably would not have been surprising if selected 11, 15, 26

 

[Rangers True Blue]

If HB will only play in Kitchener, and Kitchener offered to empty their cupboard in the deal (2nd, 3rd, 2x4ths), it’s probably close to market value for the 22nd overall pick - whether that is his ranking or not.

Ottawa would be wise to take the picks, the comp pick, and call it a day.

Holding onto the player’s rights costs them the comp pick and then they have to hope he eventually reports or that they could trade his rights down the road, when, down the road he could have gone the college route.

That’s IF he’ll only play in Kitchener.

And he's off to London.....great team with lots of picks and closer to home in Michigan.

I'm personally happy with our draft picks and no Henry isn't the end of the world.

 

[OMG67]

Just asking for a friend. Would you trade Hunter B this year for a 2nd, 3rd and 4th?

 

[EvenSteven]

Just asking for a friend. Would you trade Hunter B this year for a 2nd, 3rd and 4th?

Not a chance.

He should bring Christian Kyrou return. But the question is best answered after New Years.

 

[rangersblues]

Delete

 

[OMG67]

Not a chance.

He should bring Christian Kyrou return. But the question is best answered after New Years.

It is interesting then why a team wouldn’t trade that for four years of a similar player but wouldn’t take that for renting out the last 3 months of him.

I think those that feel two 2nds and. 3rd is a bad move for a team to make for his brother are not forward thinking enough.

 

[Kingpin794]

Not a chance.

He should bring Christian Kyrou return. But the question is best answered after New Years.

I still think he ends in Saginaw. Glavin and a ton of picks. We have Hache and Mancini as dependable blue liners. Just need another puck mover. Just makes too much sense so maybe it won’t happen.

 

[rangersblues]

It is interesting then why a team wouldn’t trade that for four years of a similar player but wouldn’t take that for renting out the last 3 months of him.

I think those that feel two 2nds and. 3rd is a bad move for a team to make for his brother are not forward thinking enough.

Indeed. Two 2nds and a 3rd for a player that many rated for 2nd round would be quite a deal - for Ottawa . You guys made out like bandits with London. Congratulations.

 

[EvenSteven]

It is interesting then why a team wouldn’t trade that for four years of a similar player but wouldn’t take that for renting out the last 3 months of him.

I think those that feel two 2nds and. 3rd is a bad move for a team to make for his brother are not forward thinking enough.

I don’t know if I’m out in left field here, but I determine a player’s trade value based on comparables.

I based Henry’s value on the fact he’d be a defected player, where he was selected in the draft, whether he was coming or not, where the player was ranked in mock drafts, and what past defected players brought in trade.

I base Hunter’s value on the fact he’s a graduating player, how high end he is, how many other comparable players at his position look to be on the market and what comparable players were traded for in recent trades. Hunter has a chance to be the top offensive D made available at the deadline. My comparable for him is Christian Kyrou and what he brought in trade at last year’s deadline. The Kyrou return was a 17 year old D taken in the third round, 2x2nds, 3rd, 4th, 5th.

So I start negotiations with, say, rumoured Saginaw, at 17 year old D Josh Glavin who was taken in the third round and the same picks.

I’ve said on here that I thought Henry B was worth Aiden Castle return. That’s 2nd, 3rd, 2x4ths. For the record, I’d have done that deal.

Congrats to Ottawa for getting the return they did. I’d have had a tough time parting with two 2nds in the deal but whatever. London obviously was happy to. And congrats to Henry going to one of the top junior organizations in the country.

No doubt a win win for all involved.

 

[EvenSteven]

I still think he ends in Saginaw. Glavin and a ton of picks. We have Hache and Mancini as dependable blue liners. Just need another puck mover. Just makes too much sense so maybe it won’t happen.

I’m on board for that value for Hunter B (Kyrou comparable). To be honest, if we closed the deal early in the season, we could squeeze extra value as Saginaw would have him for the whole season.

Say, Hunter to Saginaw for Glavin, 2nd ‘25, 2nd ‘25, 3rd ‘24, 3rd ‘25?

That’s a shade more than the Kyrou deal (a second 3rd in lieu of the 4th and 5th) as he’d be dealt early in the season instead of at the deadline.

 

[OMG67]

I don’t know if I’m out in left field here, but I determine a player’s trade value based on comparables.

I based Henry’s value on the fact he’d be a defected player, where he was selected in the draft, whether he was coming or not, where the player was ranked in mock drafts, and what past defected players brought in trade.

I base Hunter’s value on the fact he’s a graduating player, how high end he is, how many other comparable players at his position look to be on the market and what comparable players were traded for in recent trades. Hunter has a chance to be the top offensive D made available at the deadline. My comparable for him is Christian Kyrou and what he brought in trade at last year’s deadline. The Kyrou return was a 17 year old D taken in the third round, 2x2nds, 3rd, 4th, 5th.

So I start negotiations with, say, rumoured Saginaw, at 17 year old D Josh Glavin who was taken in the third round and the same picks.

I’ve said on here that I thought Henry B was worth Aiden Castle return. That’s 2nd, 3rd, 2x4ths. For the record, I’d have done that deal.

Congrats to Ottawa for getting the return they did. I’d have had a tough time parting with two 2nds in the deal but whatever. London obviously was happy to. And congrats to Henry going to one of the top junior organizations in the country.

No doubt a win win for all involved.

You are missing the point. Any defected player typically has clout on their side which is why they choose to defect.

We can bicker over the value of the draft position but the reality is this was a deep draft. As some have mentioned, it is a matter of opinion regarding where HB “should” have been drafted, as is for the 13 and 14th overall pick or even maybe the 5th overall pick made by Niagara.

Not all 22nd overall picks in every draft are equal.

When you get an opportunity to add a first rounder from a deep draft to your stable at what amounts to a discounted price because the selling team gets the comp first rounder, it should always be entertained and embraced.

Two seconds and a third for a first rounder in a deep draft is a mild cost. Most(not all) first round picks become the teams franchise player at some point.

Draft picks are assets but they are unrealized. We could argue a player that hasn’t played is also unrealized; however, the player is now tangible. The acquiring team will have scouting reports and will have a strong sense of the players value. They won’t have anywhere near the specific level of information about a draft pick, especially one more than a year into the future.

Going back to the first rounder being the most likely franchise player in the future, that player will be traded for a far greater return than the acquisition cost at the deadline of their fourth and final season. The acquiring team will likely invest time and effort in year one but realize the return in years two, three and half of year four and then return more assets than the acquisition cost. That is assuming the team trades that player.

The reverse is true once a player becomes established. Rehkopf, for example, is worth more as an 18 year old than as a 19 year old. Rehkopf was a 17th overall pick. He wasn’t a top 10 type guy at the draft but is still the franchise now as an 18 year old.

So closing out the topic, I think we should agree that acquiring a player at their lowest value based on circumstance can and has had a significant impact for most if not all of the acquiring teams. They typically end up with a player that significantly grows in value for either trade or utilization on their roster. At least that is what history suggests. Even a player in Aiden Castle that some would consider a bit of a dud has still produced.

Generally speaking, assuming the draft is deep, any first round drafted player no matter what their draft position was, should be worth the two 2nd rounders. After that it is based on assessment values of the acquiring team. We’ve seen two future 2nds traded for a current 2nd the day before the draft. It isn’t uncommon. Trading two 2nds and a 3rd for the 22nd pick where you know who the player is and can assess against internal scouting reports should be and is more valuable.

 

[EvenSteven]

The reverse is true once a player becomes established. Rehkopf, for example, is worth more as an 18 year old than as a 19 year old. Rehkopf was a 17th overall pick. He wasn’t a top 10 type guy at the draft but is still the franchise now as an 18 year old.

In his draft year, Rehkopf was a top five talent in the draft. But after his “commitment” to a USHL team (can’t remember which one), he dropped to 17 where the Ranger’s took a “chance” on him

We expect him to realize that ranking in the next two years.

 

[dirty12]

I’ve said on here that I thought Henry B was worth Aiden Castle return. That’s 2nd, 3rd, 2x4ths. For the record, I’d have done that deal.

Congrats to Ottawa for getting the return they did. I’d have had a tough time parting with two 2nds in the deal but whatever. London obviously was happy to. And congrats to Henry going to one of the top junior organizations in the country.

No doubt a win win for all involved.

I agree, no doubt a win for all.
I also think the 2 (‘24), 3, 4, 4 is equal to, maybe slightly better than 2 (‘25), 2, 3 considering the premium put on acquiring a pick in the very next draft. The ‘67s could have turned the ‘24-2nd into a 2, 3 prior to the next draft.

 

[Rangers True Blue]

OK everyone....pitch in and re-arrange the lineup for Sunday.....

Forwards:

Matthew Sop - Carson Rehkopf - Mitchell Martin

Adrian Misaljevic - Cameron Mercer - Trent Swick

Lucas Ellinas - Justin Bottineau - Luca Romano

Matheas Stark - Kyle Morey - Tanner Lam

Antonino Pugliese (not at camp...status?)


Defense:

Matthew Andonovski - Hunter Brzustewicz

Cameron Reid - Simon Motew

Tomáš Hamara - Gabriel Runco

Blair Scott - Andrew MacNiel

* (not sure if Hamara is here yet)

Goaltenders:

Jackson Parsons

Luca DiFelice

 

[Coaches Coroner]

It is interesting then why a team wouldn’t trade that for four years of a similar player but wouldn’t take that for renting out the last 3 months of him.

I think those that feel two 2nds and. 3rd is a bad move for a team to make for his brother are not forward thinking enough.

We have 4 16 year olds on roster and a 5th signed, we would not likely be able to play him the full season, meaning we get rid of picks for nothing this year...and this is a 16 year old with potential, not a proven commodity like Hunter. I don't know why you guys show up when you feel your players weren't valued enough by posters, when you guys come in here undervaluing our guys as well (the talk of Rehkopf last year in particular). At this moment, your comparison "for a friend" is a bit of a reach.
In a vacuum I'd do the trade, but in context I'm not surprised and am not as sad as you think we should be that we weren't the ones to make the deal, evidently.

 

[Jives]

We have 4 16 year olds on roster and a 5th signed, we would not likely be able to play him the full season, meaning we get rid of picks for nothing this year...and this is a 16 year old with potential, not a proven commodity like Hunter. I don't know why you guys show up when you feel your players weren't valued enough by posters, when you guys come in here undervaluing our guys as well (the talk of Rehkopf last year in particular). At this moment, your comparison "for a friend" is a bit of a reach.
In a vacuum I'd do the trade, but in context I'm not surprised and am not as sad as you think we should be that we weren't the ones to make the deal, evidently.

This is incorrect I believe. We would and can play him. You can acquire more 16 year olds via trades and play them. You just can’t play more than 4 of your own draft picks. If Henry landed here we would have had to of traded Hunter or Motew quick or releases a Scott or Runco type player. He would 100% get ice time if he got traded here.

 

[Jives]

I’m giving all 3 of the 2023 draft kids the potential to be elite players. Remember the amount of ice time Derek Roy got as a young player….I truly believed that helped him turn into the OHL player he was which was one of the best in the CHL his last year. Give the kids ice with some good older players and let them develop / play. You bury them on the 4th line or in press box that doesn’t help them. Let them make mistakes and give them PP and maybe PK time if they are that type of player. This is the perfect year for that.

Forwards:

Matthew Sop - Carson Rehkopf - Tanner Lam

Matheas Stark - Cameron Mercer - Mitch Martin

Adrian Misaljevic - Luca Romano - Trent Swick

Lucas Ellinas - Kyle Morey - Justin Bottineau

Antonino Pugliese (not at camp...status?)


Defense:

Matthew Andonovski - Hunter Brzustewicz

Cameron Reid - Simon Motew

Tomáš Hamara - Gabriel Runco

Blair Scott

Andrew MacNiel - can’t play more then 10 games

Goaltenders:

Jackson Parsons

Luca DiFelice

 

[Coaches Coroner]

This is incorrect I believe. We would and can play him. You can acquire more 16 year olds via trades and play them. You just can’t play more than 4 of your own draft picks. If Henry landed here we would have had to of traded Hunter or Motew quick or releases a Scott or Runco type player. He would 100% get ice time if he got traded here.

I've never heard that, but I don't doubt you. Could you provide a source so I could review it?

 

[EvenSteven]

I've never heard that, but I don't doubt you. Could you provide a source so I could review it?

Missy acquired two 16 year olds at the deadline and they then played 5 regularly post deadline.

I put together trade scenarios where we’d acquire defected Henry B, then at the deadline move Rehkopf for a package including a 1st rounder.

That would have given us 6 who’d have been able to play regularly on the roster.