Kitchener Rangers 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[Gondrex]

After review of all the OHL draft picks commentary, an oddity happens every yr. Apparently there were 453 players that were worthy of being a first round draft pick in a 20 team league..

Very true. One of the most common quotes from GM's, scouts etc. is "we can't believe he was still available in round X" or something to that effect .

 

[rangersblues]

Very true. One of the most common quotes from GM's, scouts etc. is "we can't believe he was still available in round X" or something to that effect .

I particularly love the scout speak. "Good compete level" , "plays the game the right way ", "great motor ", " high hockey IQ"...

At any rate good luck to all the kids drafted and those getting invites as FAs. You're living the dream.

 

[EvenSteven]

Regarding the importance of this and the next draft, arguably the upcoming import draft seems less important (relatively speaking), as I think it is doubtful the import(s) selected this June would be there in that future Mem Cup season. Perhaps they go with an older import this time round since there will already be so many rookies (?)

I think when we finish way low in the standings next year, the import draft in the summer of 2024 will be critical to the following two years.

And of course, the import draft in the summer of 2025 should bring us elite imports for the 25-26 and 26-27 seasons.

 

[EvenSteven]

I see Hamara returning.

Mesar? Tough to tell. Didn’t have a season where he’d make the Habs next year. Montreal is flush with prospects and for him to flourish playing top 6 minutes with their AHL team may be a stretch.

If there’s no spot for him on either team, it’s either here or Europe. That’ll be up to the Habs. They want him playing NA hockey? They’ll send him here. If it’s up to him, I think he plays for $$ in Europe. I suppose the ECHL is an option, but I wouldn’t send him there as an underage pro.

If he comes back here, it may be with the understanding he plays top minutes in all situations, (which he will due to the mass graduation after this year), with pressure to have him dealt to a contender at the deadline.

 

[Gondrex]

In 1999 Kitchener traded for Andrew Peters to provide the necessary protection for rookie Derek Roy to flourish in the league. I'm not by any means making any talent comparisons to any of our newly drafted prospects. However, with the limited amount of returning players, along with the limited amount of talent of some of those vets, will any of the rookies warrant a shot on, perhaps even the 2nd line ?....... in a case where they would need some similar veteran protection ? Likely a rhetorical question at this point since we don't yet know how these kids will fit in, but maybe there's a chance it becomes necessary.

I like what I saw in Hollet once they moved him up to forward. He has enough skill to pitch in the scoring once in awhile, but also has the size and physicality. Maybe he is one of these types in a potential situation like that.

 

[Jives]

I think you see the 16 year get a lot of ice time. A 16 year old forward on each of the top 3 lines for example.

 

[EvenSteven]

In 1999 Kitchener traded for Andrew Peters to provide the necessary protection for rookie Derek Roy to flourish in the league. I'm not by any means making any talent comparisons to any of our newly drafted prospects. However, with the limited amount of returning players, along with the limited amount of talent of some of those vets, will any of the rookies warrant a shot on, perhaps even the 2nd line ?....... in a case where they would need some similar veteran protection ? Likely a rhetorical question at this point since we don't yet know how these kids will fit in, but maybe there's a chance it becomes necessary.

I like what I saw in Hollet once they moved him up to forward. He has enough skill to pitch in the scoring once in awhile, but also has the size and physicality. Maybe he is one of these types in a potential situation like that.

Andrew Peters said on his podcast that when he was traded to the Rangers, he was told by the GM, Jamie MacDonald I presume, to beat the crap out of anyone who goes near Derek Roy. That’s your job. Period.

Peters had no problem with that assignment.

The game has changed. Not a lot of those guys out there. But yes, 100% I’d keep Hollett around next year. Other OA prospects with more trade value should be moved for picks. (Martin especially should bring good return).

 

[EvenSteven]

I think you see the 16 year get a lot of ice time. A 16 year old forward on each of the top 3 lines for example.

I think we’ll have a top line consisting of vets.

But lines 2 thru 4 will be littered with rookies.

 

[Gondrex]

Yeah I think once you're in the 2nd half of next season, up front you could potentially be looking at Sop, Swick, Mercer and Miseljevic as your top 4 forwards, and a rookie as your next best.
This would be assuming:
- that Martin and Rehkopf are given a chance on a contender
- that Mesar does not return
- any new incoming import forward requires a year of adjustment to the league
- a rookie or two provides more offence than both Bottineau and Hollet

Could be totally different of course. For instance, MM may trade for another, hopefully cheap, vet to help ensure the team doesn't get fed to the wolves (no pun intended) game-in, game-out.

 

[EvenSteven]

Yeah I think once you're in the 2nd half of next season, up front you could potentially be looking at Sop, Swick, Mercer and Miseljevic as your top 4 forwards, and a rookie as your next best.
This would be assuming:
- that Martin and Rehkopf are given a chance on a contender
- that Mesar does not return
- any new incoming import forward requires a year of adjustment to the league
- a rookie or two provides more offence than both Bottineau and Hollet

Could be totally different of course. For instance, MM may trade for another, hopefully cheap, vet to help ensure the team doesn't get fed to the wolves (no pun intended) game-in, game-out.

Depending on how the Brady Martin / Soo thing goes, I move pieces in the off season to insure that we could be in the running should they designate Martin defective. He’s saying all the right things now, but….

Pieces I’d move in the off season would be Brzustewicz, who’s already rumoured part of a Saginaw deal, and a couple of our better OA’s who’d bring the most return in trade. Likely Martin and Motew. That’s means starting the season with Sop and Hollett.

Mesar didn’t have the season where I’d expect him to play top 6 in Laval let alone with the Habs. He could be sent back here.

Second half of next year, after the trade deadline dust settles, as you say, we’re looking at Sop, Swick, Mercer and Miseljevic filling out the top two lines. Honourable mention Bottineau. I liked what I saw of him in limited post season minutes.

 

[EvenSteven]

Further, on any Rehkopf trade at the deadline, we need a team’s ‘07 1st rounder as part of the package. If that’s not possible, multiple 2nds is an absolute must. Best case scenario if that’s the case is two 2nds for the ‘24 draft as part of the package.

To contend / host in 26-27, we’ll need a strong ‘08 group as well as a strong ‘07 group.

Like this past season, we cannot trade our way into contention because of a weak 18 year old group.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Depending on how the Brady Martin / Soo thing goes, I move pieces in the off season to insure that we could be in the running should they designate Martin defective. He’s saying all the right things now, but….

Pieces I’d move in the off season would be Brzustewicz, who’s already rumoured part of a Saginaw deal, and a couple of our better OA’s who’d bring the most return in trade. Likely Martin and Motew. That’s means starting the season with Sop and Hollett.

Mesar didn’t have the season where I’d expect him to play top 6 in Laval let alone with the Habs. He could be sent back here.

Second half of next year, after the trade deadline dust settles, as you say, we’re looking at Sop, Swick, Mercer and Miseljevic filling out the top two lines. Honourable mention Bottineau. I liked what I saw of him in limited post season minutes.

Agree with everything you just noted but let's not forget about picks from the 21 and 22 drafts.

 

[EvenSteven]

Agree with everything you just noted but let's not forget about picks from the 21 and 22 drafts.

Yes. For sure. Looking for good camps out of Terrance, McGurn, Gilmour, etc. Hopefully they all show up.

Also, is McFadden a possibility? He was at a main camp before I think and was cut. Heard he looked good.

I guess I’m asking a lot for those we took flyers on from those drafts to appear here. But you never know.

And of course there’s Longacre. The Ranger’s are apparently still in good contact with him and his family. If it’s minutes he wants, he’ll get them here in spades the next few years.

 

[Jives]

I’m really hoping Sop isn’t here the 2nd half. I hope he continues his upward tread and has a really solid couple months to start the season. Then we do a trade for a much lesser OA with some picks for Sop. I still think we need some OAs to help the kids out. I’m fine with Hollett and another weaker OA and trading away Sop, Martin and Motew.

 

[Gondrex]

Agree with everything you just noted but let's not forget about picks from the 21 and 22 drafts.

True...and eventually we will need '06 OA's for that future team we talk about. Bottineau may possibly end up being one of them, but right now it's likely impossible to even guess who the other two could be. Looking forward to seeing how things have progressed for those other draftees - for this upcoming season and beyond.

 

[bobber]

Hope MM lives up to his statement about hiring a proper coach going forward. It has to be someone that can develop players and get the best out of them. Otherwise the team will continue to be mediocre. Looking at the stats posted in this thread about past draft picks stats. Not sure how to take them? Are they decent numbers for the level these players are presently playing in? Someone once said if your not dominating at the level your playing at you will struggle at a higher level. There are players on the Rangers roster like Schmidt as an example. A player with pro size. He should have developed into a monster on the back end. If the right coach showed him how to defend properly he would have made a difference in a lot of games. Remember I said example. Instead the coaching staff watched him make the same mistakes over and over. They need an experienced coach and a staff to go with him IMO. You can only kick the can so far down the road before you lose sight of it. The Mem Cup bid is only a thought at the moment. If they want to build a team things have to change from what ever the process is presently.

 

[Rangers True Blue]

I see Hamara returning.

Mesar? Tough to tell. Didn’t have a season where he’d make the Habs next year. Montreal is flush with prospects and for him to flourish playing top 6 minutes with their AHL team may be a stretch.

If there’s no spot for him on either team, it’s either here or Europe. That’ll be up to the Habs. They want him playing NA hockey? They’ll send him here. If it’s up to him, I think he plays for $$ in Europe. I suppose the ECHL is an option, but I wouldn’t send him there as an underage pro.

If he comes back here, it may be with the understanding he plays top minutes in all situations, (which he will due to the mass graduation after this year), with pressure to have him dealt to a contender at the deadline.

Agreed. Hamara had a good year but not a great year. And it wasn't like Mesar tore up the league this past season. He would absolutely get top minutes etc.

For me, it depends on who the new Rangers coach is. I would think Montreal will be looking for an experienced coach who can develop players and build a solid work ethic. Better chance that Mesar stays and then yes, gets traded to a top team for the playoffs.

 

[Rangers True Blue]

Andrew Peters said on his podcast that when he was traded to the Rangers, he was told by the GM, Jamie MacDonald I presume, to beat the crap out of anyone who goes near Derek Roy. That’s your job. Period.

The game has changed. Not a lot of those guys out there. But yes, 100% I’d keep Hollett around next year. Other OA prospects with more trade value should be moved for picks. (Martin especially should bring good return).

Hollett knew he wouldn't see the ice much come playoffs and pitched the idea of him playing on the 4th line. He was quoted as saying that he was no scorer but could help open up the ice for those who could. Well...he was not quite right. He actually CAN score and did so in the playoffs. He would be a great protector of the rookies. Not in the old school way but a hard hitting, in-your-face kind of way.

 

[Rangers True Blue]

Here are the 2006 players at Rangers training camp in August last year:

DEFENSE
Cenanovic, Luka D R Toronto, ON 6.04 172 15th round, 292nd overall, 2022
Terrence, Lex D L Toronto, ON 6.00 166 6th round, 112th overall, 2022

Of the two, Terrence stood out.

FORWARD
McGurn, Carson F L Ottawa, ON 5.10 165 10th round, 192nd overall, 2022
Thomakos, Daniel F L Udora, ON 5.06 161 12th round, 232nd overall, 2022 R

This past season, McGurn had a huge year with 55 points in 37 games.
Younger brother of Sean McGurn of the team-that-shall-not-be-named.

Thomakos had 39 points in 48 games.
He was invited to play in the Greater Ontario Junior Hockey League’s Future Stars and Top Prospects games on Dec. 27th, 2022.

Note that Bottineau was at that camp and of course, was signed by the Rangers. He didn't look out of place when he played this past season and will only be better this season with that experience.

 

[bobber]

Here are the 2006 players at Rangers training camp in August last year:

DEFENSE
Cenanovic, Luka D R Toronto, ON 6.04 172 15th round, 292nd overall, 2022
Terrence, Lex D L Toronto, ON 6.00 166 6th round, 112th overall, 2022

Of the two, Terrence stood out.

FORWARD
McGurn, Carson F L Ottawa, ON 5.10 165 10th round, 192nd overall, 2022
Thomakos, Daniel F L Udora, ON 5.06 161 12th round, 232nd overall, 2022 R

This past season, McGurn had a huge year with 55 points in 37 games.
Younger brother of Sean McGurn of the team-that-shall-not-be-named.

Thomakos had 39 points in 48 games.
He was invited to play in the Greater Ontario Junior Hockey League’s Future Stars and Top Prospects games on Dec. 27th, 2022.

Note that Bottineau was at that camp and of course, was signed by the Rangers. He didn't look out of place when he played this past season and will only be better this season with that experience.

When the Rangers drafted Mascherin he had played up with the Georgetown Raiders a few times and put up points at that level. This proved he could at least compete with older players even at a young age. He was a skilled forward. It would be great if the Rangers could draft players that can step in and contribute after a year of development elsewhere. Looking at past drafts not seeing this. Hope I am wrong and eat another crow pie.

 

[EvenSteven]

I’m really hoping Sop isn’t here the 2nd half. I hope he continues his upward tread and has a really solid couple months to start the season. Then we do a trade for a much lesser OA with some picks for Sop. I still think we need some OAs to help the kids out. I’m fine with Hollett and another weaker OA and trading away Sop, Martin and Motew.

I hear you. I’m in favour of moving all three of Martin, Motew and Sop at some point.

But I think it may be asking too much to be able to get that done for fair return. We won’t be the only team moving quality OA’s.

If they can only find trades for two of the three guys, I have a feeling they hang onto the hometown boy. That being said, if he wanted to be moved to a contender I’d hope the Rangers get that done.

 

[Gondrex]

..........Note that Bottineau was at that camp and of course, was signed by the Rangers. He didn't look out of place when he played this past season and will only be better this season with that experience.

To me, Bottineau has a solid build, and wasn't afraid to use it. He gives his all every shift and is always physical along the boards and in the corners. He'll just keep getting stronger each year too. If he keeps working on the skating and shot and I think he'll develop into a good all-round winger.

 

[EvenSteven]

I wonder would our trade for Liam Hawel be a good comparable for a Mitchell Martin trade?

We paid 2x2nds and a 3rd for Hawel in an off season deal.

Two power forwards. Hawel had more offence but Martin has more grit. Once you take into account Martin’s numbers being affected by injuries and playing hurt this past year, and his very good playoff numbers this year, this should be a good comparable.

To me, Bottineau has a solid build, and wasn't afraid to use it. He gives his all every shift and is always physical along the boards and in the corners. He'll just keep getting stronger each year too. If he keeps working on the skating and shot and I think he'll develop into a good all-round winger.

For sure, I was impressed with his play in the playoffs when he was brought into the lineup. Especially his not shying away from the dirty areas.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I wonder would our trade for Liam Hawel be a good comparable for a Mitchell Martin trade?

We paid 2x2nds and a 3rd for Hawel in an off season deal.

Two power forwards. Hawel had more offence but Martin has more grit. Once you take into account Martin’s numbers being affected by injuries and playing hurt this past year, and his very good playoff numbers this year, this should be a good comparable.


For sure, I was impressed with his play in the playoffs when he was brought into the lineup. Especially his not shying away from the dirty areas.

Not sure. Hawel was coming of 37 goals and an OHL Championship...he was a bit of a let down for me though; seemed to have giraffe legs. Big guy but didn't use his size in a physical way. Martin has a smaller resume and produces less but he does get physical more often than Hawel.

 

[EvenSteven]

Not sure. Hawel was coming of 37 goals and an OHL Championship...he was a bit of a let down for me though; seemed to have giraffe legs. Big guy but didn't use his size in a physical way. Martin has a smaller resume and produces less but he does get physical more often than Hawel.

Whispers on the Sudbury board that a Ranger OA has requested a trade. No idea if there’s anything to it and they’re pretty much saying it’s Martin.

Again, no idea if it’s true or not. But could he have made it known he’d like to play his OA season at home? Maybe.

Sudbury should be an all in team this year with their returning group and their very deep draft pick base.