Kitchener Rangers 2019-20 Season Thread (Part 2)

[ohloutsider]

We’re not good enough right now to compete and be the favourite to win the conference. Other teams are as good or better. We don’t have the picks to trade our way into top contention as we did in 2017-18. Other teams have double or more the 2nds to go all in. A couple may be willing to move their 2019 first rounder. We are not.

I had been thinking that it may be too hard to sell off our vets at this point. I’ve said as much on here. But after looking at what other teams have done in the past, selling off multiple graduating players in a major rebuild, it wouldn’t really be so tough over the course of the season after all.


All hypothetical of course, and I understand we’d need to find trading partners, but here we go:


Oshawa is rumoured to be shopping Noel and Antropov. Perhaps they plan on having their cake and eating it too. I mean, hey, they’re first in the east. The experience of a long playoff run this year would help with the Memorial Cup bidding process.

They could sell those guys off, but improve their OA’s, and by doing so, still contend this year and have more in the cupboard than they do now for a run next year.

So, they move Noel and Antropov elsewhere for large return. We trade them Meireles who’d replace Noel’s offence at half the price. We take back Walker and Resnick as inexpensive OA’s.

Meireles is a better than average OA in the same category as a Maksimovich. So he’s worth more than the standard 2nd, 2nd, 3rd. The Maksimovich deal had him going to Ottawa for Swankler, three 2nds and a 13th.

To Osh:
Meireles.

To Kit:
2nd ‘20(Wind)
2nd ‘23
2nd ‘24
5th ‘23
Resnick
Walker

We have to ice a team for the remainder of the season. That’s why we bring in Oshawa’s excess OA’s giving them landing spots to finish out their OHL careers and provide veteran depth. There isn’t a young Swankler coming our way, hence the 5th rounder.


Flint apparently wants to go all in this year hard. They haven’t had a winning season yet in Flint and they have a fan base they’ll want to reward for enduring some tough seasons.

They have a veteran roster and have already started buying (Lalonde). They may want to go all in so much so that they’d be willing to part with a good young player (Vierling, who’s rumoured to want a trade). After all, after swinging the Lalonde deal, they still have a number of high picks left. (six 2nds and seven 3rds). Therefore, they can bring in a couple high end F’s that could put them over the top in a year the conference is up for grabs and still have picks left to make more moves (ie. Guelph last year) or go towards the impending rebuild.

To Flint:
Damiani
Yantsis.

To Kitchener:
Vierling.
2nd ‘20(Soo).
2nd ‘24.
3rd ‘24
5th ‘23(Ham)

Vierling was the #2 overall pick in the OHL draft. That’s value! However, Vierling wasn’t ranked that high in his OHL draft year. One scouting service had him going at #11. I’m thinking that Flint may have selected the best player that would report. In this deal, this isn’t Flint trading a 2nd overall player the caliber of, say, Othmann next year. So with this in mind, they may be more receptive to moving him. Tough for Flint to give him up but they’d be getting a 50 goal scorer and one of the top two way players in the league who’s scoring at over a PPG pace and who’s been at the WJC camp, in return. Both with the experience of long playoff runs (2018).

I’m comparing this deal to the Logan Brown deal to the Rangers. That was Brown, McEneny for Ladd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 5th. Brown may be higher end than Damiani but Yantsis is a higher end OA than McEneny. Once you factor in the fact Vierling is a year older than Ladd, I think this is a fair deal.

Consensus is that it is better to split up players to get more in return for them than packaging them up. But I’m thinking we might have to include both of these guys to Flint to be able to get somebody the calibre of Vierling in return as I think one of those guys would not get it done by themselves.

Though there’s a slim chance that Damiani returns for an OA season, there is a chance nonetheless. That could entice Flint to do this deal as well, instead of dealing for a more expensive bigger fish in this deal who definitely won’t return.


London could use an upgrade in the OA department. They’d like size too. But they may want to contend again next year as well. Therefore, they probably don’t want to blow their brains out burning assets this year in acquiring too many high end players. Therefore, the cheapest way to bring in higher end help is via OA’s. Coincidentally, London can upgrade on a couple of their OA’s (Tymkin & Moskal)

To London:
Hawel

To Kitchener:
2nd ‘22
2nd ‘23(King)
3rd ‘22

We get back what it cost us to get Hawel in the first place and London addresses their size issue and upgrades their OA group. The only issue I see with Hawel going to London, is that he formerly played in Guelph with Merkley. Is there any friction between the two? Hard to tell. Merkley wasn’t liked by many in that room. But I doubt very much that London would allow something like that to affect the building of a winner. If that were the case, they likely don’t make the Merkley deal in the first place.



Before we make these deals, in our cupboard, we currently sit at three 2nds and nine 3rds. Afterwards, we’d sit at:

2nd ‘20(Wsr)
2nd ‘20(Soo)
2nd ‘21(Kit)*
2nd ‘22(Ldn)
2nd ‘22(Kit)*
2nd ‘23(Osh)
2nd ‘23(KIng)
2nd ‘24(Osh)
2nd ‘24(Bar)*
2nd ‘24(Flint)

Add to that eleven thirds, three of them in 2020.

Two of the incoming 2nds are in ‘20 giving us three ‘04 born players coming into the lineup next year as we had happen with Valade, Langdon and Sebrango. That sets us up in the future. Having three 3rds in 2020 as well, we could trade down in the week before the draft or use them to take a flyer or two on high end NCAA commits. We also add a high end young player in Vierling. That means one less piece we’d need to trade for when we look to contend in 20-21 and 21-22.

We’d have a full cupboard of picks to go all in next year in a year the western champ could get an automatic berth in the Memorial Cup that’ll likely be hosted in the east.

With two 2nds in the next draft, we’d also have the option of moving our 1st rounder in a deal for an elite veteran without it hurting too much - much like how it went down at the 2017 deadline with the dealing of Ladd not hurting too much with Vukojovic confirmed coming.

I choose to keep Ingham as we need solid goaltending for the rest of this year. Also, fingers are crossed that he returns for an overage season next year.

However, if it’s too much a gamble hoping he comes back as an OA, we can explore moving him as well. Part of that process would be to try and get a Wu or Hasley to sign for the remainder of the season with the promise that they’d split the duties with Pfiel. There is a reason that Wu is skating with the Rangers every once in a while. Can something be in the works regarding his status? If not one of those two, I’m sure whoever we’d deal Ingham to would have a throw-in goalie that could come back our way to complete the deal.

Saginaw may look for an upgrade in net. Especially if their import OA Prosvetov doesn’t return. Sudbury also could use an upgrade in net. There are contenders out there who would like to upgrade their goaltending.

Should Prosvetov not return, they’d have both a need in net and an open import spot. If Bode Wilde doesn’t return, they may want to replace his spot with a veteran D. They could do that on the cheap by adding a second import. Perhaps something could be worked out where Ingham and Bergkvist find their way to Saginaw?

We’d recoup the picks it cost us to acquire Ingham in the first place (2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 6th) and bring in a couple picks for Bergkvist (as an NHL drafted player, but a historically hard to move import, he could be worth maybe a couple 4ths?).

We could replace Bergkvist’s minutes by acquiring an OA D on the cheap to finish out the season. A comparable would be a Cole Cameron type.

But for now, I’ll continue as if we keep Ingham and Bergkvist.



After the dust settles:

Out:
C-Greg Meireles
RW-Jonathon Yantsis
C-Liam Hawel
C-Riley Damiani

In:
LW-Cole Resnick(OA)
LW-Daniel Walker(OA)
C-Evan Vierling(02)
Seven 2nds
Two 3rds
Two 5ths.

Here’s how we’d look post trade deadline:

OA’s:
LW- Resnick
LW- Walker

00’s:
LW/D- Rupoli
D- MacPherson
D- Bergkvist
G- Ingham
G- Pfiel

01’s:
C/W- Petizien
RW- Stepien
RW- Dickerson
D- Vukojovic
D- Xhekaj

02’s:
RW- Valade
C- Vierling
C- Langdon
C- Serpa
RW- MacDonnell
D- Sebrango
D- Ottavainen

03’s:
C- Pinelli
C- Fishman
D- Motew

(These lines are interchangeable):

Petizien-Langdon-Valade
Resnick-Vierling-MacDonnell
Walker-Pinelli-Stepien
Dickerson-Serpa-Fishman
Rupoli

Vukojovic-Bergkvist
MacPherson-Sebrango
Ottavainen-Xhekaj
Motew

Ingham
Pfiel

After the season, we’d lose Resnick, Walker, Bergkvist, Rupoli and Pfiel to graduation.

MacPherson and hopefully Ingham come back for OA seasons. We draft another veteran import (01 born) who’d come in to play a big part next year just like Bergkvist this year.

We go all in next year in an effort to get to the final. We’ll be deep because of the expected development of our 02 and 03 group. Therefore, we shouldn’t have to use up all the picks in the cupboard on next year alone. But we’d still be able to swing deals like we did in 17-18. That would leave assets available to go all in the following year as well when our 02’s and 03’s are 19 and 18 years old and we’ll have a couple pretty good OA’s in Petizien and Stepien.

If Wu and Schmidt report by then? We’ll even be better.

Thoughts?

Those are some very "lofty" returns - if these players are that good you should be in first place right now.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I just noticed former Ranger pick Jack Lafontaine, after not getting a starting job in Michigan, sat out a year of College hockey by going down to the BCHL as a 20/21 year old in order to transfer to Minnesota...only to still be splitting duties with another younger goalie. Our goalie coaches track record aside, it looks like splitting duties with Opilka here for a year and then having the starting gig would have been a better route for him.

 

[EvenSteven]

Those are some very "lofty" returns - if these players are that good you should be in first place right now.

Those returns are pretty much based on what the market bared over the last two or three years for comparable players.

 

[Rangers True Blue]

There's more to this than current talent. Coaching? When OS was here, they set up shop in the Rangers zone every time they entered and then pounded away at Ingham. It took to the 3rd period to see any adjustments. WHY? Last night, the first period was pretty much even. Then in the 2nd, the Rangers were a "no show". WHY? We hear that practices have not always been all that great. WHY? And after every loss, it's never even partially the fault of the coaching staff. The players aren't listening and carrying out the plan. WHY?

Something has to give and soon.

 

[bobber]

On trade front Riley Damian is 47th in scoring and he leads the team. Rangers would need to have vets in the top ten range before they can demand a bunch of assets for veteran players IMO. Ranger scouts have to do a better job adding depth players. Rangers still have a lot of players below average size that are really just not that skilled. If they draft average to smaller players in the latter rounds they should be able to impact the game ala Garreffa. Just my two cents worth.☺

 

[rangersblues]

On trade front Riley Damian is 47th in scoring and he leads the team. Rangers would need to have vets in the top ten range before they can demand a bunch of assets for veteran players IMO. Ranger scouts have to do a better job adding depth players. Rangers still have a lot of players below average size that are really just not that skilled. If they draft average to smaller players in the latter rounds they should be able to impact the game ala Garreffa. Just my two cents worth.☺

I agree especially about the smaller players. If you aren't going to be a high end scorer, you need to be a pest like Petizian. We have too many small players that are neither.

 

[Tim Wallach]

There's more to this than current talent. Coaching? When OS was here, they set up shop in the Rangers zone every time they entered and then pounded away at Ingham. It took to the 3rd period to see any adjustments. WHY? Last night, the first period was pretty much even. Then in the 2nd, the Rangers were a "no show". WHY? We hear that practices have not always been all that great. WHY? And after every loss, it's never even partially the fault of the coaching staff. The players aren't listening and carrying out the plan. WHY?

Something has to give and soon.

Two major problems for me - one on each side of the puck.

Defensively, we are stuck on a non-physical, stick check based chase system. It's so reactive and the net front is as friendly a spot for tourists as any other portion of the zone. Opponents know it and take full advantage.

Offensively, the cycle-based attack so often dies on a brainless cycle play where no one got in position. The reason I was critical of our middle tier is that those guys (Stepien, Langdon, Dickerson, Valade) are by far the worst offenders for turnovers on the cycle - mostly related to one of them getting stationary and waiting for a puck to magically come through a defender.

Bottom line is the system never changes and the players and coaches never adapt and learn from recurring problems. In my opinion, it's why they'll always fall behind other teams' development curves as the season progresses.

 

[bobber]

Two major problems for me - one on each side of the puck.

Defensively, we are stuck on a non-physical, stick check based chase system. It's so reactive and the net front is as friendly a spot for tourists as any other portion of the zone. Opponents know it and take full advantage.

Offensively, the cycle-based attack so often dies on a brainless cycle play where no one got in position. The reason I was critical of our middle tier is that those guys (Stepien, Langdon, Dickerson, Valade) are by far the worst offenders for turnovers on the cycle - mostly related to one of them getting stationary and waiting for a puck to magically come through a defender.

Bottom line is the system never changes and the players and coaches never adapt and learn from recurring problems. In my opinion, it's why they'll always fall behind other teams' development curves as the season progresses.

The Rangers never play at the Aud like it's there barn. Opposing players always say they love playing there. They love the crowd and the atmosphere. There is no fear of playing in Kitchener. Shouldn't be like this. It should be known as a hard place to get a win.

 

[IceCold]

We’re not good enough right now to compete and be the favourite to win the conference. Other teams are as good or better. We don’t have the picks to trade our way into top contention as we did in 2017-18. Other teams have double or more the 2nds to go all in. A couple may be willing to move their 2019 first rounder. We are not.
.
.
.
Thoughts?


TL;DR

 

[Jives]

SELL!!!! 2021-22 lets be a stacked team!

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

SELL!!!! 2021-22 lets be a stacked team!

at this point, I have to agree. any for real trade will cost a young player. Valade's on pace to be a big time producer by then, McDonnell and Langdon seem primed to be producers later then, Pinelli and Sebrango will be beasts, our OAs should be Petizian, Stepien & Xhekaj (maybe) which is great.

Get a stud goalie and add some more picks for that year and this could be a legit team. Not to mention, the core of it will be drafted and developed by MM and co.

 

[EvenSteven]

On trade front Riley Damian is 47th in scoring and he leads the team. Rangers would need to have vets in the top ten range before they can demand a bunch of assets for veteran players IMO. Ranger scouts have to do a better job adding depth players. Rangers still have a lot of players below average size that are really just not that skilled. If they draft average to smaller players in the latter rounds they should be able to impact the game ala Garreffa. Just my two cents worth.☺

Damiani (85pts in 58 games) and Hawel (34G) are pretty much on the same per game pace as last year. Had Damiani played the full 68 games, he likely reaches the century mark. 100 point players hold above average trade value in this league. Hawel was worth 2nd, 2nd, 3rd based on last season’s output.

Meireles (97pts) and Yantsis (50G) are at a per game pace less than last year thus far. However, Meireles cranked it up PPG wise in the second half last year. That’s something to take into account.

If Hawel, 34 goals last year and on pace for same GPG this year, is worth 2nd, 2nd, 3rd this year, then Yantsis who's on pace for around the same GPG as Hawel this year, should be worth the same at worst considering he scored 50 last year.

I don’t think I overvalued these four in the “essay” I posted yesterday.

 

[EvenSteven]

at this point, I have to agree. any for real trade will cost a young player. Valade's on pace to be a big time producer by then, McDonnell and Langdon seem primed to be producers later then, Pinelli and Sebrango will be beasts, our OAs should be Petizian, Stepien & Xhekaj (maybe) which is great.

Get a stud goalie and add some more picks for that year and this could be a legit team. Not to mention, the core of it will be drafted and developed by MM and co.

If we sell off the graduating vets this year, we could contend next year as well as 21-22.

 

[GeoBlue]

There's more to this than current talent. Coaching? When OS was here, they set up shop in the Rangers zone every time they entered and then pounded away at Ingham. It took to the 3rd period to see any adjustments. WHY? Last night, the first period was pretty much even. Then in the 2nd, the Rangers were a "no show". WHY? We hear that practices have not always been all that great. WHY? And after every loss, it's never even partially the fault of the coaching staff. The players aren't listening and carrying out the plan. WHY?

Something has to give and soon.

I thought I would go over the many recent comments before I put up my post but this is the first one that got into "coaching". So now I can put my 2 cents in........

Coaching was an issue that came up a couple of years ago when we made a run to the division final. As a reminder, we had Brown, Mascherin, Stanley, Sherwood and company. I remember the same disjointed play early in the season as we are seeing now and most of us wanted off with the coach's head. And our feelings were justified.

But we quickly jumped off the coaching bandwagon because MM "purchased" us a competitive team. Players with a lot of natural talent that got us to game 7 of the conference final. And all was forgotten.

Now we deja vu into 2019 and we are seeing the same sort of weaknesses. The difference being is that we do not have the picks to buy our way out of this one. We are seeing the same sort of weak coaching and the talent that we will eventually end up with at the trade deadline will not be able to make up for this.

I need only to mention a few players that have not developed under the current staff. I can start by going back to Mascherin and wonder why someone did not tell him to keep using that lethal shot of his rather than trying to make that pretty pass that always got intercepted. Sure, he had a good year but it could have been so much better. We had a player like Eric Guest, who despite some personal issues, might have been a better player if one had taken the extra moment to help him out. We had Lipinov last year who most of us agree was a bust but I wonder if MM saw a steal in him and was hoping that he could be "developed" by the coaching staff. And today, I question the development of players such as Vuk, Langdon and Stepien.........Do they have that extra gear or are they not getting the support required from a competant coaching staff. And as I have said on here, I am still sitting on the fence as to whether Damiani and maybe Valade should be. I also wonder if Hawel has some early regrets coming to Kitchener.

Don't want to point out any specific coaches but it seems we are weak up and down. The forward lines look awkward though we can attribute that to injuries though the constant shuffling of lines over the last few years has always been frustrating. Our "vaunted" defense is seeing more and more holes as the season progresses. And need our say anything about our "development" of goaltenders over the last few years?

This is all just MHO, but I really feel that this year should be "last call" for the coaching staff. It is not a year that we will be able to buy our way deep into the playoffs. And should we sell come the deadline, it will be interesting as to what the staff will be able to do with our remaining "assets".

 

[dirty12]

Damiani (85pts in 58 games) and Hawel (34G) are pretty much on the same per game pace as last year. Had Damiani played the full 68 games, he likely reaches the century mark. 100 point players hold above average trade value in this league. Hawel was worth 2nd, 2nd, 3rd based on last season’s output.

Meireles (97pts) and Yantsis (50G) are at a per game pace less than last year thus far. However, Meireles cranked it up PPG wise in the second half last year. That’s something to take into account.

If Hawel, 34 goals last year and on pace for same GPG this year, is worth 2nd, 2nd, 3rd this year, then Yantsis who's on pace for around the same GPG as Hawel this year, should be worth the same at worst considering he scored 50 last year.

I don’t think I overvalued these four in the “essay” I posted yesterday.

It’s as much about want and need as it is about value. Flint is a little over loaded at RC/RW; otherwise, your suggested trade would be hard to pass up, imo.
Your OA values are reasonable based on past; but, I doubt the demand is there for the Rangers to get full value on all three. Who’s buying...one each for Gens, Firebirds, Attack, Knights? So, how low do you go to ensure those OA move before Lodinia, possibly Brahaney, Gordeev, Struthers, Chenier, Josling, McGregor, ... because if the price is right, the OA will be flooded

 

[bobber]

Damiani (85pts in 58 games) and Hawel (34G) are pretty much on the same per game pace as last year. Had Damiani played the full 68 games, he likely reaches the century mark. 100 point players hold above average trade value in this league. Hawel was worth 2nd, 2nd, 3rd based on last season’s output.

Meireles (97pts) and Yantsis (50G) are at a per game pace less than last year thus far. However, Meireles cranked it up PPG wise in the second half last year. That’s something to take into account.

If Hawel, 34 goals last year and on pace for same GPG this year, is worth 2nd, 2nd, 3rd this year, then Yantsis who's on pace for around the same GPG as Hawel this year, should be worth the same at worst considering he scored 50 last year.

I don’t think I overvalued these four in the “essay” I posted yesterday.

These players did achieve impressive numbers. Hope the Rangers can cash in. Even if this team puts a decent season together this year I think it's a good year to sell. Just not a great year to burn the limited assets the Rangers have at this time.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

in terms of coaching, look at the players that McKee has had drafted for him since his first year as head coach

2016 draft:
Giovanni Vallati
Riley Damiani
Merrick Rippon
Eric Guest
Lucas Pfeil

2 players drafted to the NHL as Kitchener Rangers. you could argue that Vallati could’ve been developed better and drafted higher considering he’s a first round pick. but you could also argue Riley Damiani was a steal. 1 never showed up. the other 2 have never or were never much

2017:
Grayson Ladd
Michael Vukojevic
Matt Gordon
Mike Petizian
Carter Tresoor
Graham Dickerson

yikes. Vukojevic drafted to the NHL but he hasn’t been given any opportunity to improve his offensive game. Ladd never seemed to be that good to me and is still meh in Windsor. Petizian is putting it together.

2018:
Reid Valade
Isaac Langdon
Donovan Sebrango
Declan McDonnell
Joseph Serpa

Langdon played the entire season on the 4th line with Arber Xhekaj and Graham Dickerson. Reid Valade looks like a borderline NHL pick at best. Sebrango has been amazing. but that’s about it

it’s not great

 

[bobber]

in terms of coaching, look at the players that McKee has had drafted for him since his first year as head coach

2016 draft:
Giovanni Vallati
Riley Damiani
Merrick Rippon
Eric Guest
Lucas Pfeil

2 players drafted to the NHL as Kitchener Rangers. you could argue that Vallati could’ve been developed better and drafted higher considering he’s a first round pick. but you could also argue Riley Damiani was a steal. 1 never showed up. the other 2 have never or were never much

2017:
Grayson Ladd
Michael Vukojevic
Matt Gordon
Mike Petizian
Carter Tresoor
Graham Dickerson

yikes. Vukojevic drafted to the NHL but he hasn’t been given any opportunity to improve his offensive game. Ladd never seemed to be that good to me and is still meh in Windsor. Petizian is putting it together.

2018:
Reid Valade
Isaac Langdon
Donovan Sebrango
Declan McDonnell
Joseph Serpa

Langdon played the entire season on the 4th line with Arber Xhekaj and Graham Dickerson. Reid Valade looks like a borderline NHL pick at best. Sebrango has been amazing. but that’s about it

it’s not great

This is a good post. The Rangers are lacking behind other teams in scouting IMO. Two of our closest rivals draft better in the Storm and Attack.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Both sides of the story are correct in my opinion. Our scouting staff has missed the mark numerous times, but the coaching/development isn't making up any ground either.

You need both components to win championships.

 

[GeoBlue]

Both sides of the story are correct in my opinion. Our scouting staff has missed the mark numerous times, but the coaching/development isn't making up any ground either.

You need both components to win championships.

In addition to my comments above - yes, I also think the scouting needs an overhaul. The coaching needs to work with what they are given no matter the skill level. They are there to teach. A good example is Dickerson. At some point last year, as a 14th rounder, he was deemed good enough to be promoted to Junior A. That is someone who is a good coach and upgraded his skills. (Whitby Fury) But since he has gotten to Kitchener, there has been little improvement. One might say that he has reached his peak but there is always more room for improvement for someone like him whom has exceeded expectations at a different level.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

In addition to my comments above - yes, I also think the scouting needs an overhaul. The coaching needs to work with what they are given no matter the skill level. They are there to teach. A good example is Dickerson. At some point last year, as a 14th rounder, he was deemed good enough to be promoted to Junior A. That is someone who is a good coach and upgraded his skills. (Whitby Fury) But since he has gotten to Kitchener, there has been little improvement. One might say that he has reached his peak but there is always more room for improvement for someone like him whom has exceeded expectations at a different level.

Dickerson was a weird situation all around. his minor midget numbers suggest he was probably better than where he was picked, his Jr. C numbers clearly suggest that he was too good for that level, but I still think he was prematurely called up to the Rangers. at the time he was signed, Gordon was hurt, McHugh was hurt, Valade was at U17’s and Xhekaj hadn’t been converted to forward/defence duties yet. it seemed they just needed someone and that was the easiest option

 

[Square Corners]

Those returns are pretty much based on what the market bared over the last two or three years for comparable players.

It had Meirles going for 3 2nds+5th+2 players. Meanwhile an extra 2 months of Garreffa only cost 3 3rds (no 2nds). And a full year of Hawel cost 2 2nds+3rd

I'd say they are very ambitious returns. The OA forward market is saturated (Josling, McGregor, Lodnia, Struthers, etc) so you'd be getting nowhere near that return. Instead they'd just go get Lodnia or Struthers for cheaper

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

This is a good post. The Rangers are lacking behind other teams in scouting IMO. Two of our closest rivals draft better in the Storm and Attack.

I find their execution to be the bigger issue. the guys they draft and don’t sign right away always seem to end up playing for teams or in leagues that aren’t very desirable. for example, Dalton McBride playing on a bottom feeder Jr. C team? I understand it’s not fully in their control where the prospects play, but I’ve seen/heard of other teams opening up their wallets to get their guys closer to the big club, on a better team, etc.

they also draft too many “maybe he’ll show up” Americans that never show up. the ones that do show up (Purcell, Van Compernolle for the past 2 years) don’t get signed, and then commit to NCAA schools.

 

[EvenSteven]

It had Meirles going for 3 2nds+5th+2 players. Meanwhile an extra 2 months of Garreffa only cost 3 3rds (no 2nds). And a full year of Hawel cost 2 2nds+3rd

I'd say they are very ambitious returns. The OA forward market is saturated (Josling, McGregor, Lodnia, Struthers, etc) so you'd be getting nowhere near that return. Instead they'd just go get Lodnia or Struthers for cheaper

I compared the Meireles return on the Maksimovich deal from last year. The only reason I included those two OA’s is because Oshawa would look for a way to get rid of them as they are upgrading their OA’s. I consider them throw ins much the same way Jacob Lalonde was it just a throw and back in 09 when we traded off Shutron and others to Windsor.

Meireles, like Maksimovich, is an OA of the highest end. There won’t be many, if any, of that caliber to hit the market this year.

In all actuality, you can scratch the two OA’s from the deal if you like. Otherwise, the rest of the deal is fair comparison to Maksimovich. Three seconds. The fifth is in place of Swankler (who was a 5th round pick into this league). However, I concede what the market bears this year and the excess OA’s they could become available will have affect on the prices.

Meireles trumps Lodnia, who’s only ever been a point per game player in this league. Meireles almost hit 100 last year. Struthers may never hit the market. Stan has a habit of keeping graduating talent when he shouldn’t. (Note Brazeau last year). Josling is a good comparison though.

Hard for me to use Garreffa as a comparable. He wasn’t in the league at the time and MM admitted he took less than market value in an effort to get a deal done ASAP to get anything for him at all as he had pro opportunities in Europe. Had he held off indefinitely to get a better deal, he may have lost him to Europe and got nothing at all in return.

 

[EvenSteven]

MM has shown well in some areas as a GM and asst GM in his time here. It was he who insisted we draft Bunnaman for example.

He did make some decent trades to put us in contention a couple years ago. Some of his drafts have been good. Jury still out on most for sure.

But what I am beginning to question is his ability to judge the team and whether or not we can contend going into that particular season.

Last season, an obvious rebuild year, after a decent start, he jumped the gun in acquiring Lipanov. It made no sense to acquire a veteran in a rebuild year for no other reason then to fill an import spot.

Now this year, we have an open OA spot and he’s quick to acquire Hawel. Now here we sit in ninth place in the conference. Did he misjudge this team again this year? If so, over the course of two years, he has piddled away two 2nds and three 3rds on veterans who we likely should not have acquired in apparent down years.

No way we should’ve been acquiring costly veteran players last year. Anybody could see we would be rebuilding after the push we made the year before.

Now this year, in a year where our 18 and 19-year-old groups are thin of high-end talent, he sees us contending based on the strength of our returning OA’s. This looks to be a probable down year as well. Should he have seen that coming in? Should he have held off on acquiring Ingham (2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 6th) and Hawel (2nd, 2nd, 3rd) two graduating players who won’t be around to help us when we do contend again?