Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Recall that Josh Anderson came to us with significant injury history that affected his form and performance and went on to excel with us, it stands to reason that Dach could follow a similar trajectory...under a much better management (as regards to player development) than under the MB regime.

The difference is Anderson had shown more before getting traded, scoring 25+ 2 years prior and cost much less, while Dach has shown very little.

As I've said before, I like Dach and think MSL is good enough to turn him into an impactful player, but the cost was way too high when considering both injury history and past-performance vs draft pedigree.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I'm with you. Personnally I would've drafted with the pick. However I'll give this new management the benefit of the doubt on Dach

Dach has a double risk factor, performed way under his pedigree, had a serious injury. Picking instead would've eliminated risk.

Once you get 13, you could also move up and would've had the chance at one of the best offensively gifted Ds. If we want CC & Nick to perform, we need that too.

 

[morhilane]

Dach has a double risk factor, performed way under his pedigree, had a serious injury. Picking instead would've eliminated risk.

Once you get 13, you could also move up and would've had the chance at one of the best offensively gifted Ds. If we want CC & Nick to perform, we need that too.

A team was ready to pay with pick 11 (San Jose) to get Dach. GMs clearly still value the guy very highly despite his production. They probably know things we do not.

Or they really didn't think this draft will amount to much and Dach was a more sure option.

 

[BenchBrawl]

The difference is Anderson had shown more before getting traded, scoring 25+ 2 years prior and cost much less, while Dach has shown very little.

As I've said before, I like Dach and think MSL is good enough to turn him into an impactful player, but the cost was way too high when considering both injury history and past-performance vs draft pedigree.

In his fourth season

 

[Captain97]

Also we have to remember Dach is the same draft as Caufield. And we expect Caufield to get better still no?

I'm not saying we should expect Dach to be as good as CC. But Dach paced for 30 points at 20-21 in a rile he shouldn't have been in. Thinking he could put up 50-60 points in his prime isn't crazy.

 

[Habs13]

So, I've been thinking about this whole thing a lot.

Dach vs. Wright

Are they comparable players? Seems like the consensus on Wright is a good, two-way center than can put up 60 point seasons. Can Dach put up 60 points? If so, would that make Dach the better choice? He's only 21, plays a solid two-way game, is huge at 6'4"... I hated this trade, mainly because I love Romanov, but I'm warming to it. I think Dach is a better skater too. Wright seemingly has attitude problems, like, the f*** was that stare down thing all about?!

Most of us wanted a center, so Wright was our pick, but we have Dach who I think stacks up well to Wright, and Slafkovsky too...

 

[Takeru]

Really curious how much and how long we'll reup him.

We don't really have all that much margin atm. So unless we do wonders to remove cap, we can't sign him for too much/too long.

And the gamble works best if we can get him at a discount before he breaks out. But then again, Dach and co will be looking to avoid such a scenario.

We'll see how Hughes negociation skills handle this one.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

In his fourth season

That doesn't change the fact his value right now should be much lower and the price was steep.

Your whole argument looks like you're reacting as if I ever stated he doesn't have potential and will never reach it, which I never did, quite the opposite as I specifically stated MSL is key and could work his magic, and completely dismisses the point of my post. You can do better than cheerleading fanboyism.

 

[Schooner Guy]

The difference is Anderson had shown more before getting traded, scoring 25+ 2 years prior and cost much less, while Dach has shown very little.

As I've said before, I like Dach and think MSL is good enough to turn him into an impactful player, but the cost was way too high when considering both injury history and past-performance vs draft pedigree.

People around the NHL are in disbelief that Chicago traded Dach. You're underrating his potential. The kid is still only 21 years old. Big 2-way centers with upside are very hard to acquire and often don't break out until they a few years older than Dach (Johansen, Zibanejad, Couturier etc). Can't wait to see MSL and Vinny go to work with Dach. The Blackhawks were a tire fire last year under Culliton.

The cost was basically Romanov who is solid but limited offensively. LD is our biggest organizational strength. Terrific asset management if Dach can come anywhere close to his potential in a couple of years.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

A team was ready to pay with pick 11 (San Jose) to get Dach. GMs clearly still value the guy very highly despite his production. They probably know things we do not.

Or they really didn't think this draft will amount to much and Dach was a more sure option.

Where did you see that ?

Also why did Chicago not just take the higher pick ?

 

[Walrus26]

The difference is Anderson had shown more before getting traded, scoring 25+ 2 years prior and cost much less, while Dach has shown very little.

As I've said before, I like Dach and think MSL is good enough to turn him into an impactful player, but the cost was way too high when considering both injury history and past-performance vs draft pedigree.

I see a lot of comments complaining about the "cost" of bringing Dach here.

So, if we believe the "experts" who've told us that even the top 3 forwards in this draft project to be good 2nd liners with a whiff of first-line upside, if find it somewhat weird that there's loads of talk about "look who we could have drafted with that #13OA."

If Dach turns into, say, an Andrew Copp with us, it's a definite upgrade for the team as whole from Romy (who makes way in the lineup for Ghule and I daresay no beats will be missed). If the likes of Nazar and Lekkerimaki turn into bona-fide 70 point wingers, then by all means run around in circles and laugh at me. Getting 2C production (c55 points) and solid defensive big-boy centre play from a #13OA is a win, is it not?

In saying that though, we could have had the most awesome hockey name ever (Rutger McGroarty) instead. BOOOOOO!!!!

 

[morhilane]

Where did you see that ?

Also why did Chicago not just take the higher pick ?

I read that somewhere (I've been reading too many things about the draft, lol). What I read was that Hughes had to add a pick (98) to 13 to get him to beat the 11 offer.

 

[CHfan1]

I read that somewhere (I've been reading too many things about the draft, lol). What I read was that Hughes had to add a pick (98) to 13 to get him to beat the 11 offer.

It was in an Athletic article. Hughes had to add the 66th pick to the 13th pick to make the trade happen (and supposedly beat the offer of the 11th overall).

 

[montreal]

Where did you see that ?

Also why did Chicago not just take the higher pick ?

it was on twitter, the Habs added pick 66th OA to 13th OA to sweeten the pot.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

It was in an Athletic article. Hughes had to add the 66th pick to the 13th pick to make the trade happen (and supposedly beat the offer of the 11th overall).

it was on twitter, the Habs added pick 66th OA to 13th OA to sweeten the pot.

Sounds weird that the team offering 11 would not just add another random pick on top of it.

 

[Takeru]

Really curious how much and how long we'll reup him.

We don't really have all that much margin atm. So unless we do wonders to remove cap, we can't sign him for too much/too long.

And the gamble works best if we can get him at a discount before he breaks out. But then again, Dach and co will be looking to avoid such a scenario.

We'll see how Hughes negociation skills handle this one.

 

[morhilane]

Sounds weird that the team offering 11 would not just add another random pick on top of it.

Maybe they couldn't. The Habs could because they had a lots of picks.

 

[Deebs]

Really curious how much and how long we'll reup him.

We don't really have all that much margin atm. So unless we do wonders to remove cap, we can't sign him for too much/too long.

And the gamble works best if we can get him at a discount before he breaks out. But then again, Dach and co will be looking to avoid such a scenario.

We'll see how Hughes negociation skills handle this one.

I think negotiations for a new deal started before the trade happened and he's confident he can lock him up for a while. Just my opinion though

 

[cphabs]

If Dach has a bad year his stock will plummet and will be maybe worth a 3rd. 50/50 chance of this.

Whereas taking any of the great prospects with 13 would have had 3 years where is they played average, they still would be worth something. Just like Dach was.

Thank you!

 

[Nedved]

I just don't get the we have a lot of LD attitude around here. We probably have a bottom 5 d core in the nhl, with romanov, and I think our d is now worse than last year. I'm not sure if I understand how this team is being built, unless they throughly believe Dach is a can't miss opportunity for them. For me, until we have a # 1 D and a PP qb that is proven, and a couple of veterans like Petry and Edmundson with a Guhle as an up and comer, our d is bottom 10. I think you need a top 10 d to make any run in the playoffs, and we're years away from it. So this move confused me.

 

[CHfan1]

I think negotiations for a new deal started before the trade happened and he's confident he can lock him up for a while. Just my opinion though

From the Athletic:

Hughes said the Canadiens did not have any talk of an extension with Dach’s camp prior to making the trade, but he had no contract talks with Romanov either.

 

[Richiebottles]

I really like this deal, it reminds me of when the bought low on Zibanejad and looked how that turned out.

He will be able to have a no pressure environment that’s all based on development under MSL.

Plus, HF has a HUGE tendency to over-rate draft pick. It’s a 50/50 shot that these guys make it to the league much less have a significant impact.

I think it’s a major win for the Habs.

 

[Takeru]

I just don't get the we have a lot of LD attitude around here. We probably have a bottom 5 d core in the nhl, with romanov, and I think our d is now worse than last year. I'm not sure if I understand how this team is being built, unless they throughly believe Dach is a can't miss opportunity for them. For me, until we have a # 1 D and a PP qb that is proven, and a couple of veterans like Petry and Edmundson with a Guhle as an up and comer, our d is bottom 10. I think you need a top 10 d to make any run in the playoffs, and we're years away from it. So this move confused me.

For sure, D building will be important. But C line is equally as important if you ask me. I don't think there's a necessary order in which to build those (see COL or Tampa for instance).

Now the question is, does keeping Romanov (or drafting whoever D left @ 13th) increases our odds at having a top 10 D? That's debatable, but I'd say that's muddying the water. Those are two seperate situations, addressing one doesn't mean we don't have to address the other or that we won't in time and with seperate moves.

On the flipside, you don't get the opportunity to trade for a fully realized Dach without a major overpayment.
So I can't get behind that type of gamble at this point.

Bottomline, our D was gonna be trash next year either way. Making it X amount worse doesn't change that much in the big picture, and we had an opportunity to add size, speed AND skills down the middle (something we've basically never had for as long as I've been following the Habs).

 

[Deebs]

From the Athletic:

Hughes said the Canadiens did not have any talk of an extension with Dach’s camp prior to making the trade, but he had no contract talks with Romanov either.

Interesting, thanks

 

[1909]

For sure, D building will be important. But C line is equally as important if you ask me. I don't think there's a necessary order in which to build those (see COL or Tampa for instance).

Now the question is, does keeping Romanov (or drafting whoever D left @ 13th) increases our odds at having a top 10 D? That's debatable, but I'd say that's muddying the water. Those are two seperate situations, addressing one doesn't mean we don't have to address the other or that we won't in time and with seperate moves.

On the flipside, you don't get the opportunity to trade for a fully realized Dach without a major overpayment.
So I can't get behind that type of gamble at this point.

Bottomline, our D was gonna be trash next year either way. Making it X amount worse doesn't change that much in the big picture, and we had an opportunity to add size, speed AND skills down the middle (something we've basically never had for as long as I've been following the Habs).

Lots can happen before the beginning of next season . I would not be surprised if they sign Chiarot as UFA to add experience to the D squad, especially if Petry is dealt. No way they gonna give full time jobs to Guhle-Harris and Barron right now. They re-signed Wideman and Leskinen is back too.