Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[417]

You know, I don’t personally knock anyone who criticized his play early this season, there’s nothing wrong with providing an accurate asssessment of what you’re seeing when it’s manifesting itself right before you.

The problem is, which is odd imo, is that so many people didn’t see his slow start coming, and worse even, that after 10-20-30 games, that it was sufficient time for him to have gotten over his major knee recontruction and not playing hockey for over 1 year.

 

[Sorinth]

You know, I don’t personally knock anyone who criticized his play early this season, there’s nothing wrong with providing an accurate asssessment of what you’re seeing when it’s manifesting itself right before you.

The problem is, which is odd imo, is that so many people didn’t see his slow start coming, and worse even, that after 10-20-30 games, that it was sufficient time for him to have gotten over his major knee recontruction and not playing hockey for over 1 year.

It's the conclusions people jump too and not the criticism itself that is often so wrong. Dach was playing badly, nobody disagreed with that, but when it's he's playing badly in his D+5 season therefore he's never going to amount to anything and should be waived that things go off the rails and people get called out for their views. But it was never the criticism, it was the conlusions being drawn.

 

[Rapala]

I wasn't a fan during the bad times, so I won't make those "eat crow" comments or apologize for being wrong. I just acknowledge that some of my takes about him were bad. Even though I'm old I still have plenty to learn.

There is absolutely no reason to eat crow if you didn't write him off totally.
A lot of posters were spot on with the prognosis roughly 18 months after surgery before the musculature reaches it's full strength.

The one thing that was hard to assess was the fear factor vs the out of shape and not pushing factor.
The face has definitely lost some of it's roundness so there is something to discuss there.

The thing I find funny is there were obvious improvements and signs that he was trending the right way yet some folks doubled down on a bad take.
I said it at the time it reminded me exactly of the Slaf thread last season when he was starting to break.

It's great news for us because there is an absolute value to this Kirby Dach.
We now have to pray for the second part of the puzzle to fall into place namely availability.

Credit to Kirby for not losing his mind.

 

[Andy]

It's the conclusions people jump too and not the criticism itself that is often so wrong. Dach was playing badly, nobody disagreed with that, but when it's he's playing badly in his D+5 season therefore he's never going to amount to anything and should be waived that things go off the rails and people get called out for their views. But it was never the criticism, it was the conlusions being drawn.

For me it's the revisionist history. This collective gaslighting and pretending that the 2022-2023 season didn't happen, and then reducing any achievements to mooching off of Cole and Nick. Every compliment was a backhand compliment. Other player's struggles (like Slaf) was blamed on Dach. And if Dach played well, it's because someone else made him look good.

People refused to read this very thread where almost every post from like December to the end of year was about how much Kirby was developing, how physically dominant he looked, and how he was driving his own line. Some even said he had the talent to eclipse Nick. No, he was always a bum.

It's just such bad faith participation that brings down the whole board.

Was it wrong to say he was playing like shit? No, because he absolutely was. But to pretend that he was always shit and then refusing to see him slowly turn his game around, that's where it gets way too f***ing much and just makes this board not fun to post on.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

There is absolutely no reason to eat crow if you didn't write him off totally.
A lot of posters were spot on with the prognosis roughly 18 months after surgery before the musculature reaches it's full strength.

The one thing that was hard to assess was the fear factor vs the out of shape and not pushing factor.
The face has definitely lost some of it's roundness so there is something to discuss there.

The thing I find funny is there were obvious improvements and signs that he was trending the right way yet some folks doubled down on a bad take.
I said it at the time it reminded me exactly of the Slaf thread last season when he was starting to break.

It's great news for us because there is an absolute value to this Kirby Dach.
We now have to pray for the second partof the puzzle to fall into place namely availability.

Credit to Kirby for not losing his mind.

Perfectly said.

I honestly don’t think people still realize how much better he can be.

Besides a plus shot, he has all the tools. Love that he’s been scoring a bunch of late besides that.

For me it’s all about health. As long as the injuries don’t pile up, he’ll be fine

 

[schwang26]

The only concern I have is that he’s still an adventure in his own end. Besides that, he’s showing a lot of improvement.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

With Dach playing well, and Laine likely returning next game, I wonder if they will keep Dach on the 1st unit and move Slaf to the 2nd unit

 

[Ozmodiar]

With Dach playing well, and Laine likely returning next game, I wonder if they will keep Dach on the 1st unit and move Slaf to the 2nd unit

Good question. Maybe the OT last night was a hint?

 

[Andrei79]

With Dach playing well, and Laine likely returning next game, I wonder if they will keep Dach on the 1st unit and move Slaf to the 2nd unit

I could see them keeping a second left hand shot. Next year, both will probably be on the second unit with Matheson, Heineman and Newhook.

 

[Redux91]

You know, I don’t personally knock anyone who criticized his play early this season, there’s nothing wrong with providing an accurate asssessment of what you’re seeing when it’s manifesting itself right before you.

The problem is, which is odd imo, is that so many people didn’t see his slow start coming, and worse even, that after 10-20-30 games, that it was sufficient time for him to have gotten over his major knee recontruction and not playing hockey for over 1 year.

Great post

I too don't fault people for 'trashing' what was obviously early and rusty bad play
I refused to click on the thread til I knew things got better lol..

It was tough reading people outright 'give up' on Kirby however yeah.. people forgot that monster from a year and a half ago.. PEOPLE WERE SAYING HE'S EASILY TAKING OVER SUZUKIS JOB ffs lmao

So I'm obviously thrilled it he seems to have turned the corner again, he's *flying* out there now, and he's even flubbing shots and they're going in anyway now lol, wait til he gets off better shots even

But i guess that's the thing eh? On our insanely huge and diverse fan spectrum, and very loooong, and on one end, we've got the ready to jump off the building people
And on the other end we have the IVE SEEN ENOUGH CROWN HIM people after like 2 games lol

And its fine,
Comes with the territory, we are the most prestigious and hallowed franchise in the sport.
And I'm proud of that, and try to be as humble as I can about that
And I love and appreciate all of our fans .. sigh even the Super Slaf Haters

 

[Andrei79]

You know, I don’t personally knock anyone who criticized his play early this season, there’s nothing wrong with providing an accurate asssessment of what you’re seeing when it’s manifesting itself right before you.

The problem is, which is odd imo, is that so many people didn’t see his slow start coming, and worse even, that after 10-20-30 games, that it was sufficient time for him to have gotten over his major knee recontruction and not playing hockey for over 1 year.

Im personally puzzled why so many dismissed the injury... Especially when something similar happened to Caufield last year, who looked like he couldn't score for half the year.

 

[Frankenheimer]

You know, I don’t personally knock anyone who criticized his play early this season, there’s nothing wrong with providing an accurate asssessment of what you’re seeing when it’s manifesting itself right before you.

I do knock them. We all have access to the same information and understand that Dach was not playing anywhere near the level he was prior to the injury. Nobody needs a bunch of emotional, annoying megaphones repeating this ad nauseam. We already have Tony for that.

 

[JianYang]

You know, I don’t personally knock anyone who criticized his play early this season, there’s nothing wrong with providing an accurate asssessment of what you’re seeing when it’s manifesting itself right before you.

The problem is, which is odd imo, is that so many people didn’t see his slow start coming, and worse even, that after 10-20-30 games, that it was sufficient time for him to have gotten over his major knee recontruction and not playing hockey for over 1 year.

I think the heaviest critics are the ones the claim dach didn't show much pre-injury either citing his goals and assists.

The ones who fundamentally disagree with that assessment have generally been more lenient.

 

[417]

I do knock them. We all have access to the same information and understand that Dach was not playing anywhere near the level he was prior to the injury. Nobody needs a bunch of emotional, annoying megaphones repeating this ad nauseam. We already have Tony for that.

I meant in the sense that it was fair play to call out how bad he was playing earlier this year, he was, but it shouldn't be separated from the fact that he was/is coming off major knee reconstruction surgery.

 

[ReHabs]

I meant in the sense that it was fair play to call out how bad he was playing earlier this year, he was, but it shouldn't be separated from the fact that he was/is coming off major knee reconstruction surgery.

Speaking only for myself here. Given he participated in the pre-season, I felt he must've skated and been up to physical shape over the summer. His surgery was completed October 31st, 2023 -- I figured he was skating over the past summer prior to training camp 2024. In any case, if he needed time to get back up to speed, how lucky for him that our team was not competitive and could afford to grant it to him. Win-win.

 

[417]

Speaking only for myself here. Given he participated in the pre-season, I felt he must've skated and been up to physical shape over the summer. His surgery was completed October 31st, 2023 -- I figured he was skating over the past summer prior to training camp 2024. In any case, if he needed time to get back up to speed, how lucky for him that our team was not competitive and could afford to grant it to him. Win-win.

Yeah but I think it was less about the health of his knee and more about his confidence in it holding up or trying to protect it.

EIther way, let's just hope he's turned a corner because he looks like the player we saw in the 2nd half of his 1st season with the Habs.

 

[Rapala]

He had 4-5 legit scoring chances yesterday. Still even more room to improve.

He’s starting to get back to being a difficult forechecker, especially with his stick. We saw that two years ago.

His ability to strip pucks without taking penalties was one of his best attributes so his improved mobility will definitely help with that.
He took a number of penalties earlier this season reaching...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You know, I don’t personally knock anyone who criticized his play early this season, there’s nothing wrong with providing an accurate asssessment of what you’re seeing when it’s manifesting itself right before you.

The problem is, which is odd imo, is that so many people didn’t see his slow start coming, and worse even, that after 10-20-30 games, that it was sufficient time for him to have gotten over his major knee recontruction and not playing hockey for over 1 year.

There are slow starts and then there are slow starts. He was horrible. I expected some rust but he was downright bad and I don't blame anyone for saying so. I also don't blame anyone for questioning if he would ever recover. It certainly looked pretty bleak for him.

What I did not like was the narrative that he was lazy and didn't care. Moreover, the folks who came in and said he was never any good and that it was a stupid trade etc... that was absolute nonsense.

 

[417]

There are slow starts and then there are slow starts. He was horrible. I expected some rust but he was downright bad and I don't blame anyone for saying so. I also don't blame anyone for questioning if he would ever recover. It certainly looked pretty bleak for him.

Never as bleak as you're suggesting here.

Just a lack of perspective and patience. Like I said, I don't think people realize the extent of that injury and the mental toll it takes on a player. It's not a common injury in the NHL, but for being a fan of the NFL, and soccer/football where this injury is much more common, I wasn't surprised.

What I did not like was the narrative that he was lazy and didn't care. Moreover, the folks who came in and said he was never any good and that it was a stupid trade etc... that was absolute nonsense.

Yeah, it's the typical go-to response when a player struggles and people can't explain why.