Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Rapala]

As categorical as I have been about his performance I’m empathetic to him, I mean poor guy. I hold my breath when he’s in traffic almost as often as I used to when watching Markov fetch pucks in the corner.

He's battling multiple fronts and availability is a big one.
I'm sure he'll get better with the passage of time if he can stay healthy.
Two things can happen either he can gain that step he needs or he can learn to play with the limitations he has.
I expect as he becomes more fluid we'll see better plays coming off his stick. Those fractions of a second mean everything in this league.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Dach doesn't really have any weapons to rely on. I mean, what is he? Not a shooter, obviously. Is he a playmaker? I dunno about that either. He's "big" but frail and unable to use his size.

What would you say you do here, Kirby?

 

[le_sean]

It’s just tough to praise Dach for literally doing nothing when Laine gets a hat trick despite missing just as much time away from the rink. It just shows you the difference in the quality of the player. Laine at the very least has an elite shot. So even if he’s playing like shit, he still has value in some capacity when on the ice.

What exactly does Dach have to distinguish himself? Nothing. He’s not a great playmaker, he’s not a good skater, he has a terrible shot, he’s not physical, he’s not good defensively, he doesn’t think the game at a level above his peers. He just happens to be 6’3. If he was 5’11, I don’t think he’d be in the league.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Dach doesn't really have any weapons to rely on. I mean, what is he? Not a shooter, obviously. Is he a playmaker? I dunno about that either. He's "big" but frail and unable to use his size.

What would you say you do here, Kirby?

His strengths: skating, puck protection and playmaking have all been affected by his injury.

Step behind so players are closing on him and doesn't have the strength yet to fight off other players.

 

[Goalfield13]

Dach doesn't really have any weapons to rely on. I mean, what is he? Not a shooter, obviously. Is he a playmaker? I dunno about that either. He's "big" but frail and unable to use his size.

What would you say you do here, Kirby?

He is a pretty good passer. When he was on his game, it was hard to knock him off the puck, so he used his size like a top 6 player in that way. He was decent defensively as well.

His shot isn't great, and he can't win faceoffs. He has some tools that make him a good winger and decent center, but not the full package for either position, IMO.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Prior to the injury, the strengths for Dach is that he has great hands, his puck protection and ability to get the puck off the wall and sustain possession and make passes off the wall and into dangerous scoring areas.

Hes a plus plus playmaker when he's on his game, he's also a high end transporter of the puck through the neutral zone and into the offensive zone.

That's what makes him a candidate for a great 2C, if you have someone who can get the puck into the zone, set players up off the rush or get into a cycle game, play possession and make plays off that possession, that is how most 5 on 5 offense is generated.

 

[le_sean]

Prior to the injury, the strengths for Dach is that he has great hands, his puck protection and ability to get the puck off the wall and sustain possession and make passes off the wall and into dangerous scoring areas.

Hes a plus plus playmaker when he's on his game, he's also a high end transporter of the puck through the neutral zone and into the offensive zone.

That's what makes him a candidate for a great 2C, if you have someone who can get the puck into the zone, set players up off the rush or get into a cycle game, play possession and make plays off that possession, that is how most 5 on 5 offense is generated.

He’s not a plus plus playmaker. He’s a decent playmaker but when everyone on the ice knows you’re passing the puck, because you have the worst shot in the league, your upside is limited. Plus plus playmakers don’t average 1 assist every 3 games.

Transporting the puck through the neutral zone isn’t good enough to be a 2C on a really good team. You’re describing an average 2C.

 

[WeThreeKings]

He’s not a plus plus playmaker. He’s a decent playmaker but when everyone on the ice knows you’re passing the puck, because you have the worst shot in the league, your upside is limited. Plus plus playmakers don’t average 1 assist every 3 games.

Transporting the puck through the neutral zone isn’t good enough to be a 2C on a really good team. You’re describing an average 2C.

Ok

 

[le_sean]

Ok

I get he was your favourite player in his draft and you’ve been a proponent of his since Day 1, even when he was in Chicago, but he’s not the player you are imagining him to be.

I hope he turns it around but we are talking about the current worst Top 6 centre in the NHL. He has a long way to go

 

[WeThreeKings]

I get he was your favourite player in his draft and you’ve been a proponent of his since Day 1, even when he was in Chicago, but he’s not the player you are imagining him to be.

I hope he turns it around but we are talking about the current worst Top 6 centre in the NHL. He has a long way to go

I thought it was clear I was talking about him prior to the injury. He has not displayed many of those tools with consistency or authority this season.

I have also explained over many posts that even if Dach finds his game this year I would still be looking for upgrades.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It’s just tough to praise Dach for literally doing nothing when Laine gets a hat trick despite missing just as much time away from the rink. It just shows you the difference in the quality of the player.

Not all injuries are the same man… he tore his ACL and his MCL.

 

[le_sean]

I thought it was clear I was talking about him prior to the injury. He has not displayed many of those tools with consistency or authority this season.

I have also explained over many posts that even if Dach finds his game this year I would still be looking for upgrades.

Fair enough. I don’t think he was as good as you described him to be, if we take a step back. In that 2022-23 season, over 40% of his production was on the PP, and most of his EV points were as a winger with the two best forwards on the team.

I also thought it looked good moving forward, but looking at the big picture, it was a bit of an outlier. He had some good games without production, based on the eye test, but it was inconsistent.

 

[Goalfield13]

He’s not a plus plus playmaker. He’s a decent playmaker but when everyone on the ice knows you’re passing the puck, because you have the worst shot in the league, your upside is limited. Plus plus playmakers don’t average 1 assist every 3 games.

Transporting the puck through the neutral zone isn’t good enough to be a 2C on a really good team. You’re describing an average 2C.

Let's be honest: his shot sucks and he can't win a faceoff to save his life. Those are not good traits for any top 6C. All his other strengths are weakened considerably due to these issues. You are right, he is predictable.

Edit: And these issues were true even before the injury, where some people consider him to be this magical unicorn on ice.

 

[Toene]

Can't PatLaine just give him some tips to help him shoot better?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Can't PatLaine just give him some tips to help him shoot better?

He was working with Dr Shot and it had improved but he got hurt and now he's back to not even using the shot.

Sometimes just being a threat to shoot opens up playmaking but he's not doing it. Neither is Slaf.

Both boys need to shoot to unlock their games and skate, but it's inconsistent with bigger guys and it is with those two.

 

[le_sean]

Let's be honest: his shot sucks and he can't win a faceoff to save his life. Those are not good traits for any top 6C. All his other strengths are weakened considerably due to these issues. You are right, he is predictable.

Edit: And these issues were true even before the injury, where some people consider him to be this magical unicorn on ice.

Listen, I fell for it too. Last year’s preseason and the first game against Toronto, I thought there was a shot that he was going to be better than Suzuki. He looked like an animal out there. And I guess that’s what makes Nick, Nick. Mr. Consistent, doesn’t take games off, always available. Kirby has been inconsistent since the WHL. Injuries definitely don’t help.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

He’s not a plus plus playmaker. He’s a decent playmaker but when everyone on the ice knows you’re passing the puck, because you have the worst shot in the league, your upside is limited. Plus plus playmakers don’t average 1 assist every 3 games.

Transporting the puck through the neutral zone isn’t good enough to be a 2C on a really good team. You’re describing an average 2C.

Oh Lord, this kind of revisionist babble always happens when the usual suspects pick their whipping boy. Yeah he was a 3OA pick because he was just so damn average. I get you're angry but you can't change the past.

 

[le_sean]

Oh Lord, this kind of revisionist babble always happens when the usual suspects pick their whipping boy. Yeah he was a 3OA pick because he was just so damn average. I get you're angry but you can't change the past.

Yeah he was rated higher than he should have been because he’s a 6’3 centre. What about his WHL career screams 3rd overall pick? You think a 70 point season in the CHL is worthy of that? No, it’s just GMs being dumb. Note that the USNDTP record goal scorer dropped to 15 because of his height in the same draft.

GMs are dumb, that’s all you’re saying right now. I’m not saying he had zero potential, but it was always way overblown.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Listen, I fell for it too. Last year’s preseason and the first game against Toronto, I thought there was a shot that he was going to be better than Suzuki. He looked like an animal out there. And I guess that’s what makes Nick, Nick. Mr. Consistent, doesn’t take games off, always available. Kirby has been inconsistent since the WHL. Injuries definitely don’t help.

You (and pretty much everyone here) were thrilled with the trade going into last season.

Now all I keep reading from posters: ‘why did we trade for this guy?’

Go back and read this thread from Feb 23 onwards. He’d been with us for a bit and was improving by leaps and bounds. Everyone was thrilled with him and some felt he might even be able to become a number one.

Coming back from what he’s trying to come back from is no joke. He’s been worse than we all expected but the more I read about those injuries the more I realize how difficult it is to bounce back quickly.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

He was working with Dr Shot and it had improved but he got hurt and now he's back to not even using the shot.

Sometimes just being a threat to shoot opens up playmaking but he's not doing it. Neither is Slaf.

Both boys need to shoot to unlock their games and skate, but it's inconsistent with bigger guys and it is with those two.

That's the thing .... you don't need Doctor shot to take shots.....even if guys can't develop sizzlers just get it on net. Everybody knows Slaf goes for the cross crease down the goal line and Dach goes for the cross crease in the high slot/point , they need to cut to the slot and shoot , regardless if its a muffin or not.


Its why Suzuki is deadly on the cross crease , he shows shot the whole way with his head up and dishes at the end , Dach has this ability in him , but he never leans on his stick to show shot

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Yeah he was rated higher than he should have been because he’s a 6’3 centre. What about his WHL career screams 3rd overall pick? You think a 70 point season in the CHL is worthy of that? No, it’s just GMs being dumb. Note that the USNDTP record goal scorer dropped to 15 because of his height in the same draft.

GMs are dumb, that’s all you’re saying right now. I’m not saying he had zero potential, but it was always way overblown.

What are you doing here? Why aren't you out there as an nhl Scout? If we go back to draft day are we gonna find your posts talking about how overrated Dach is and should be a late 1st at best?

 

[KevSkillz4]

He play a good game against Buffalo. I see great protection of puck and passes from him.

Build on that and he is going to replay like he did in his first year with Habs.

 

[Sorinth]

He play a good game against Buffalo. I see great protection of puck and passes from him.

Build on that and he is going to replay like he did in his first year with Habs.

A slow build getting just a little bit better game after game, getting a little bit more consistent from one game to the next is the path forward for him. It's slow and takes a lot of work and there will be setbacks but it is what it is.

 

[Andy]

Hey everyone, instead of revising history and pretending that Dach has always been this bad, how about you just go read the posts from Jan 2023-April 2023 in this very thread.

Again, people are looking at how Dach is playing now and pretending he always played like this with the habs. Its false.

 

[OldCraig71]

Why not send him to the AHL for a few games? Would that be the worst thing in the world for a struggling player?