Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Kaiden Ghoul]

We have to find the right combination for Dach, but that said Dach needs to get his head out of his own a$$.................Gotta get going real soon, or this summer they need to get a real 2C.

Exactly, its not like we are winning this season, just put him in position to suceed, if everyone stay healthy and he show promises, great, if not well im not in his head and i dont know what happen around him and what kind of mental shape hes in , but thats something that will have to be evaluate, before the draft.

If he continus to struggle and we keep him, fine i prefer to die with him than trade him for peanuts the time Hage comes or someone else

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I don't think the Kings, have won one round since he landed there. So, he may not be quite as good as you and he think he is.....
Kopitar
Byfield
Danault
These are the 3 C's on that team.............

Again, you are a fan.................and I used to be. He was a very serviceable #3 guy, until he wanted too much money, and walked on the Habs.
No more.......he is their issue, not ours.

I never do what if's...........................

Yes, Bergevin overpaid a lot of the wrong guys..............glad he is gone too. In LA none the less!!

At center position Habs are actually among the very worst of the league if not THE worst. I'm not an huge fan of Phil. It's like if I was a big fan of a Camry or a Buick Allure with cars. Sure some BMWs are sexyer and attractive. The Camry gets me from point A to B. The Maserati does it too, when it's not at the garage for repairs.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I think we’re at the point that he could sit a couple games, try and reset. Manage expectations moving forward, get some rest, maybe pair him with Gallagher and keep things simple.

I can appreciate trying to adjust to being a step behind what you’re used to, but I see way too much panic and over thinking in his decision making. That’s not his game at all.

I disagree sit him for a couple of games. The medias in Mtl are too important and that will make a big story. This is not good for the player, this add too much pressure.

Don't worry, with time he will get his game back. There is nothing else than wait.

 

[HabbyGuy]

When you don't compete you take lazy penalties. Marty won't punish him. Some GM's would have waived him by now

Any GM who would waive Dach "by now" at this juncture clearly have no claim to their profession.

That decision would be asinine.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Many of you were horribly wrong about this and were basing he would "surpass Suzuki" based on training camp and preseason. It reminds me of when Victor Mete was going to surpass Ben Chiarot because of his preseason performance. Dach has shown nothing close to Suzuki to warrant that kind of praise.

He'll need an unprecedented turnaround to go from arguably the worst player in the NHL to overtaking a top 15-20 C in the league.

I thought he could be another Suzuki at best but not better. He doesn’t have the shot.

This situation has zero in common with Victor Mete. Dach was a 3rd overall pick who showed great promise with us. He sucks now but that’s entirely due to injury.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Exactly, its not like we are winning this season, just put him in position to suceed, if everyone stay healthy and he show promises, great, if not well im not in his head and i dont know what happen around him and what kind of mental shape hes in , but thats something that will have to be evaluate, before the draft.

If he continus to struggle and we keep him, fine i prefer to die with him than trade him for peanuts the time Hage comes or someone else

Yep. Play the hell of him. The standings are meaningless anyway.

That being said, I’d absolutely welcome us trading for another center. That would actually take the pressure off of him and help our other players produce.

 

[Scriptor]

Yep. Play the hell of him. The standings are meaningless anyway.

That being said, I’d absolutely welcome us trading for another center. That would actually take the pressure off of him and help our other players produce.

Any stop-gap veterans as targets? Maybe an overpriced veteran with a couple of years left on his contract? Meanwhile, Dach earns his ice time as a 3rd line C, Hage matures in the minors and Beck gets a gradual taste of NHL as a 4th line C to start?

Is 4 years of Kadri at 7M too much?

With two years left at 34 years of age, I'd consider it, but 4 years is too old and too much, IMO.

 

[RC51]

right now Dach would not get picked on waivers for free, same as Primeau. Yikes

 

[G0bias]

Suzuki carried the team (outside Price) playing next to Drouin and Armia in the playoffs and facing the toughest matchups. That shows way more than 20-ish games in a lost season. Not to mention that he was clearly riding the coattails of Suzuki and Caufield when he was a winger on that line.

I'm not touching Dach vs Suzuki. Just that on a personal level, Dach had shown glimpses of 2C potential before his injury, which weren't just in training camp games.

Regardless, i think the team needs to seriously consider an alternative at 2C, while still holding on to him.

 

[Tyson]

I'm not touching Dach vs Suzuki. Just that on a personal level, Dach had shown glimpses of 2C potential before his injury, which weren't just in training camp games.

Regardless, i think the team needs to seriously consider an alternative at 2C, while still holding on to him.

A major part of the rebuild was for Kirby Dach to fill the 2nd line center role, that appears to have been a bust.
This sets the rebuild back.
I am of the mindset that Dach was never that good to begin with and his injuries have probably ended any top 6 potential. I feel for him.

 

[BLONG7]

I thought he could be another Suzuki at best but not better. He doesn’t have the shot.

This situation has zero in common with Victor Mete. Dach was a 3rd overall pick who showed great promise with us. He sucks now but that’s entirely due to injury.

I still think Dach can recover.......it's taking longer than I thought, and right now he is painful to watch.....it seems to be physical, and mental with him.
He could very well be suited more to be a winger, than at C.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Any stop-gap veterans as targets? Maybe an overpriced veteran with a couple of years left on his contract? Meanwhile, Dach earns his ice time as a 3rd line C, Hage matures in the minors and Beck gets a gradual taste of NHL as a 4th line C to start?

Is 4 years of Kadri at 7M too much?

With two years left at 34 years of age, I'd consider it, but 4 years is too old and too much, IMO.

It’s interesting because we’ve got Demidov next year. Could he play center? Maybe. Then there’s Hage.

The team may just decide to draft high another year and wait for one of those guys to emerge.

If we did want a stopgap, Malkin might be available. Kadri’s deal is too long for my tastes. And honestly he’s not the guy anyway.

 

[DAChampion]

right now Dach would not get picked on waivers for free, same as Primeau. Yikes

Dach would certainly get picked up on waivers.

 

[HabbyGuy]

I still think Dach can recover.......it's taking longer than I thought, and right now he is painful to watch.....it seems to be physical, and mental with him.
He could very well be suited more to be a winger, than at C.

It's possible, I think anyone who is writing off Dach this quickly, after his awful injury, would be doing it at their own peril.

These types of injuries are notoriously slow to come back from, fortunately we have time with him, (this year and next) to see how he will ultimately respond.

No need to freak out and throw in the towel with him, it would suck if he can never be what we had hoped, but we won't know until he's gets over this thing both physically and mentally.

Those already calling it over and a massive blunder by Hughes, quite frankly have no idea how this will turn out. All it does is afford them opportunity to vent.

That said, Hughes should obviously be laying out some contingency plans regardless.

 

[Saundies]

I'm conflicted on Dach.

On the one hand, you can look at Caufield literally from last season where he didn't look like the same player or scoring threat he was in the past (after surgery). It would have been really easy to throw our hands up, expect that it was going to continue to that way and give up on him.

On the other hand, Caufield has been a scoring threat his entire career and has consistently shown that. He had a form to return to. Dach hasn't really done anything other than the flash he showed in the second half of his first year here. We have an idea of what he could be (or now, could have been) but that's about it.

This is hard. Do you cut your apparent losses now or wait and see for yet another year? 2C is a super important position on a hockey team and we cant let a guy who's clearly floundering keep his spot without impunity for a whole season and a half if we expect to climb out of his rebuild.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm conflicted on Dach.

On the one hand, you can look at Caufield literally from last season where he didn't look like the same player or scoring threat he was in the past (after surgery). It would have been really easy to throw our hands up, expect that it was going to continue to that way and give up on him.

On the other hand, Caufield has been a scoring threat his entire career and has consistently shown that. He had a form to return to. Dach hasn't really done anything other than the flash he showed in the second half of his first year here. We have an idea of what he could be (or now, could have been) but that's about it.

This is hard. Do you cut your apparent losses now or wait and see for yet another year? 2C is a super important position on a hockey team and we cant let a guy who's clearly floundering keep his spot without impunity for a whole season and a half if we expect to climb out of his rebuild.

Keep Dach. Continue looking for another 2nd line center.

 

[Saundies]

Keep Dach. Continue looking for another 2nd line center.

Honestly probably the best solution unless a team really covets Dach as a C option and wants him in a package for that player.

I don't know about you but I'm not interested in Dach as a winger. For me it's C or bust.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Dach was never a 2C going forward in my eyes , too flaky , that said it's easy to consistently be right about the teams players when you just expect the worst out of everybody for 20 years so I can't really take credit for calling it , I'd still keep him but I'm not high on him being 2C , I still think he will be able to *play* at a 2C level one day just not consistently enough for people to have been slotting him as 2C on our cup winning roster down the line.

He can't win a draw and can't play D , which is why Evans has surpassed him on the depth chart

 

[WeThreeKings]

I'm conflicted on Dach.

On the one hand, you can look at Caufield literally from last season where he didn't look like the same player or scoring threat he was in the past (after surgery). It would have been really easy to throw our hands up, expect that it was going to continue to that way and give up on him.

On the other hand, Caufield has been a scoring threat his entire career and has consistently shown that. He had a form to return to. Dach hasn't really done anything other than the flash he showed in the second half of his first year here. We have an idea of what he could be (or now, could have been) but that's about it.

This is hard. Do you cut your apparent losses now or wait and see for yet another year? 2C is a super important position on a hockey team and we cant let a guy who's clearly floundering keep his spot without impunity for a whole season and a half if we expect to climb out of his rebuild.

It's the easiest decision to make.. you just keep playing him, coaching him and working with him this year. At the end of the year if his play hasn't come around to an appropriate level; then you send him home for the summer with a clear set of instructions on what he is to improve upon.

If Dach does or doesn't find his form by the end of the year, the calculus doesn't change, this group should be looking for improvements at the center. Whether it's finding a better 2C than Dach or a better 1C than Suzuki.

If you find an improvement or Dach comes in with the mindset and play to securely claim one of those spots, he is still an RFA after his contract ends NEXT YEAR, so you'll have plenty of runway to see if he's a top 6 fixture, or a guy in your middle 6, who will still provide value through his size, skill and ability to play wing or center. His cost for extension would remain very low.

He is not blocking a single internal option this year.
There is not a single external option that is a viable option right now and if there was, if he was playing well or not, it makes no difference, they should be looking at whether the acquisition cost makes sense.

Cutting losses with Dach right now is the singularly most stupid conclusion anyone can draw. You won't get what you paid to get him. You would be panicking far too early after a major injury especially in the context of a team that has several players not delivering to a previously established level.

You can only lose moving on from Dach prematurely.

 

[Andy]

I'm conflicted on Dach.

On the one hand, you can look at Caufield literally from last season where he didn't look like the same player or scoring threat he was in the past (after surgery). It would have been really easy to throw our hands up, expect that it was going to continue to that way and give up on him.

On the other hand, Caufield has been a scoring threat his entire career and has consistently shown that. He had a form to return to. Dach hasn't really done anything other than the flash he showed in the second half of his first year here. We have an idea of what he could be (or now, could have been) but that's about it.

This is hard. Do you cut your apparent losses now or wait and see for yet another year? 2C is a super important position on a hockey team and we cant let a guy who's clearly floundering keep his spot without impunity for a whole season and a half if we expect to climb out of his rebuild.

Not only could Caufield not score last year, but he was bobbling the puck all season long. He would drive me nuts in the PP overhandling and literally losing the puck 80% of the time. This year he doesn't have that problem.

Dach's issue is clearly skating. He has zero first step and separation speed right now - which he most definitely had in his first season with the habs. Another issue I noticed is that when he gets beat defensively, he has trouble hard stopping and pivoting quickly to defend a new angle and lane. His turning radius is so wide, and he over skates his position when trying to hard stop. That knee injury has really f***ed his overall game.

 

[ReHabs]

Caufield finished last season with a career high 65pts. Dach is on pace for 25 points. Comparing Caufield and Dach is simply disingenuous, their difference in performance and effort is easily seen and unfair to Caufield who never looked as checked out and behind the play as Dach looks.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not only could Caufield not score last year, but he was bobbling the puck all season long. He would drive me nuts in the PP overhandling and literally losing the puck 80% of the time. This year he doesn't have that problem.

Dach's issue is clearly skating. He has zero first step and separation speed right now - which he most definitely had in his first season with the habs. Another issue I noticed is that when he gets beat defensively, he has trouble hard stopping and pivoting quickly to defend a new angle and lane. His turning radius is so wide, and he over skates his position when trying to hard stop. That knee injury has really f***ed his overall game.

He’s also playing with zero confidence. I’ve never seen a player with worse luck. Every penalty he takes becomes a goal. Every mistake we get scored on. A truly nightmarish season for him.

 

[Benstheman]

I'm pretty sure Dach will be back at a level that we will want to keep him on the team. He is a big guy who's playing nervously right now. It takes time and in many cases, a lot of time to overcome the mental barriers. I think next off season (2026) will be decision time for him and Laine (maybe even Newhook too).

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm pretty sure Dach will be back at a level that we will want to keep him on the team. He is a big guy who's playing nervously right now. It takes time and in many cases, a lot of time to overcome the mental barriers. I think next off season (2026) will be decision time for him and Laine (maybe even Newhook too).

This was his make or break it year for me.

As much as I agree with you that he can bounce back, we can’t wait on this. Either Demidov takes the 2nd chair next year or we find an alternative. Dach can find his game on the wing or center on the 3rd. We can’t depend on him to hold that role.

 

[Benstheman]

This was his make or break it year for me.

As much as I agree with you that he can bounce back, we can’t wait on this. Either Demidov takes the 2nd chair next year or we find an alternative. Dach can find his game in the wing or center if the 3rd. We can’t depend on him to hold that role.

Sure, as 2nd line C. But he still can be a talented , complimentary winger on the 2nd or 3rd line. We will still need those. And that's ok, unless we pay him too much for that role.