Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[badfish]

I think there’s too much focus on the psychological aspects of his troubles. Lazy, scared to get hurt, lack of confidence, can’t handle Montreal market, ….

ACL/MCL repair can still show physical limitations going into year 2. Range of motion, strength, fitness issues (if strength was primary focus), is there a brace?, …

I think it’s a little from column A and a little from column B, with a pinch of “how good was he, really, pre-injury?”

Not a medical professional, but from what I read online it's rare for a hockey player to tear the ACL. Earlier in this thread I found a few examples of players who did and it took ~1 season to recover and ~1 season to get back to normal, pre-injury level of play.

So while I'm disappointed this year I'm going to stay the course and see what happens second half of the season and then next year. I think Kirby Dach is the player we saw end of his first year here + preseason last year.

A lot of the challenges he's facing now weren't question marks before his injury so i don't think it's a leap based on the case history and what were seeing on the ice that he's still recovering in some way from the injury and time off.

 

[Rapala]

Not a medical professional, but from what I read online it's rare for a hockey player to tear the ACL. Earlier in this thread I found a few examples of players who did and it took ~1 season to recover and ~1 season to get back to normal, pre-injury level of play.

So while I'm disappointed this year I'm going to stay the course and see what happens second half of the season and then next year. I think Kirby Dach is the player we saw end of his first year here + preseason last year.

A lot of the challenges he's facing now weren't question marks before his injury so i don't think it's a leap based on the case history and what were seeing on the ice that he's still recovering in some way from the injury and time off.

You aren't wrong 18-24 months from the players themself which is better testimony than any medical opinion in my books.

 

[overlords]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-rangers/latest-news/brett-berard-out-with-upper-body-injury

how could this happen

 

[Naslundforever]

« Keep telling yourself that. »

re: leaving hateful comments on Dach’s IG is marginal behavior

I’ll leave the convo at this because we were warned, but bud if 1000 people had left a hateful comment (which I doubt) that is still less than 1 in 1000 fans doing that. 0.1% of fans if they only had a million. You can chill with the jabs, you’re fabricating an enemy to white knight against.

I hope Dach bounces back; and the team has the foresight to shelter him in the meantime on bottom lines.

 

[morhilane]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-rangers/latest-news/brett-berard-out-with-upper-body-injury

how could this happen

Dach is a goon!

 

[Naslundforever]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-rangers/latest-news/brett-berard-out-with-upper-body-injury

how could this happen

Dach smacked him pretty good there. 50lbs on him I think.

 

[overlords]

Dach smacked him pretty good there. 50lbs on him I think.

Probably our best/meanest hit of the year from off the top of my head. Xhekaj on Hyman comes to mind as being close.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Agreed, though i question where that guy should be too. 3rd liner? Are him and Dach just cases of players who take years to become effective Cs?

I think Newhook’s a winger. As for Dach, I thought he’d be a lot better. But it’s brutal to come back from an injury. We saw it with Caufield last year. I knew he’d be rusty but he’s been flat out bad.

I hope he can come back. I think he’ll come back. But…

 

[BaseballCoach]

I think Newhook’s a winger. As for Dach, I thought he’d be a lot better. But it’s brutal to come back from an injury. We saw it with Caufield last year. I knew he’d be rusty but he’s been flat out bad.

I hope he can come back. I think he’ll come back. But…

Playing with Slaf and Laine might be surprisingly dangerous.

 

[WeThreeKings]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-rangers/latest-news/brett-berard-out-with-upper-body-injury

how could this happen

From the posts I've read.. Dach waited for him to enter his personal space and his immense softness somehow created a big bang in the time/space continuum that hurt Berard.

 

[Goalfield13]

I havent quite given up on Dach, but on the plus side for you, that 2nd was used to move up and grab Hage.

We should have traded Lehkonen for picks and left Barron out of it. My original point was go for draft picks because this regime actually does well with drafting.

 

[Habssince89]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-rangers/latest-news/brett-berard-out-with-upper-body-injury

how could this happen

that was a big hit. Dach isn't soft at all, he just needs to get engaged

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Berard weighs 170lbs LMAO, that's like hitting Hutson come on it proves nothing

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

nobody is wroting off Heineman , what does that even mean . Heineman is a bottom 6 player doing his job with his limited ice time.

My god we keep coping that Dach is 20 year olds , hes turning 24 , shows absolutely nothing. Chicago fans realized this a while ago that Dach is simply not fit as a center , let alone in the top6.
He has every chance in the world , to show what is he worth.
We are 31th in the league , we somehow have a decent PP god knows why and yet even being on the first unit , Dach has done absolutely nothing on the PP and literally everything happens without him being even in the play.

Also funny how this board only protect Dach while Barron just turned 23 and Newhook is also turning 24.

Dach has played 236 games
Barron has played 106 games
Newhook has played 238 games

Yet everyone agrees that Barron is barely a nhler and that Newhook despite his chances cant make happens and everyone agree on this board

Btw Newhook and Dach have the same amount of points in their career , yet Dach is somehow trending up for breathing air on the ice.


Literally the same people from last season who were Praising Matheson because of his secondary assists that now wants to throw him away despite playing the same exact way.

Some people will say that we are to quick to throw the towel and some we wait until hes 31 year olds before they realize that he's not doing the job done.

We wasted similar assets for those 3 and yet we can't compare oh we cant judge him like the others.

Kinda out of touch if you ask me.
The injury card is a joke. He trained nonstop this summer played hockey since september now entering december but somehow a professional hockey player , who has trained and played their whole life hockey , somehow forgot every basic of hockey because of an injury. Cmon now thats completely ridic.

I think this is where the disconnect is. When people see a player making dumb moves or not putting in the effort, the question is ‘what does that have to do with recovering from a knee surgery?’

But it happens. A player can lose confidence from missing all that time and also with a new knee you can just be tentative. That tentativeness and lack of confidence can manifest into making dumb moves and not putting in the effort because of overthinking.

It’s kind of like when people swore that Slaf had low IQ and didn’t even know basic hockey 101 positioning. People swore up and down that he was just dumb and not inexperienced. Sometimes connections between causes and on ice play aren’t so obvious.

Dach has been better than this. Sure some players stagnate. He very well could. No one has a crystal ball here.

But no GM with half a brain is gonna give up on a Dach like player after only 20+ games after a season ending injury.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Dach has the green jacket but he destroyed a midget so he's back in out hearts

 

[EveryDay]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/new-york-rangers/latest-news/brett-berard-out-with-upper-body-injury

how could this happen

Who wrote this article?? How could 1 goal + 1 assist = 3 points?

 

[Rapala]

Probably our best/meanest hit of the year from off the top of my head. Xhekaj on Hyman comes to mind as being close.

Don't worry a lot of people noticed his game ask Zibinejad about it even before the high stick.
I don't mind people being critical of a player I mean I throw a lot of stones too.
But I'd like to think I'm positive when the results warrant it.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

You aren't wrong 18-24 months from the players themself which is better testimony than any medical opinion in my books.

A good reminder to never take any medical advice from HF Boards! So many posters in here raving about how ACL injuries are a piece of cake now

 

[Gaud]

That and better cardio to begin with.

I think Gallagher had some injury related issues, but i also think he may have switched up his approach for the summer. I remember the changes Chara had made one summer just to be able to keep plaing in the NHL in a meaningful way. I think Gallagher may have fixed injuries, changed diet and training regimen. The Gallagher i see seeems a lot younger than last year's version

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think Gallagher had some injury related issues, but i also think he may have switched up his approach for the summer. I remember the changes Chara had made one summer just to be able to keep plaing in the NHL in a meaningful way. I think Gallagher may have fixed injuries, changed diet and training regimen. The Gallagher i see seeems a lot younger than last year's version

Wifey made him stop being a f***ing moron.

 

[Sorinth]

I racked my brain thinking about these cases and I could only remember Teemu Selanne around the early 2000s. You can forgive me for not thinking he's an apt comparison to Kirby Dach.

Apparently these cases happen "ALL THE TIME" so I'd love to be reminded of more. It would sustain me and give me hope that Kirby Dach's <30pt pace this season isn't as devastating as I fear.

You racked your brain and couldn't even come up with Monahan?

 

[ReHabs]

You racked your brain and couldn't even come up with Monahan?

Monahan had his stud seasons before his injuries derailed his career. Monahan never surpassed his pre-injury career high.

Monahan is slower, more brittle, and less dynamic today than before his many injuries. This is why his team paid us to get rid of him.

How does this fit with Dach? You want to make the comparison, be my guest.

 

[HuGo Sham]

https://braceworks.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/ACL-Injuries-in-Professional-Hockey-Players.pdf

not good. here's the takeaway for the scientifically-challenged

---

Topic: ACL Injuries in Professional Hockey Players​

Background:​

• ACL injuries in hockey players are rarely studied compared to football and basketball.
• Hypothesis: Performance after ACL reconstruction in NHL players would match pre-injury levels.

---

Methods:​

• Data collected from NHL Injury Surveillance System (2006–2010).
• Medical staff surveys and performance data analysis (e.g., games played, goals, assists).
• 47 players identified (3 goalies, 8 defensemen, 36 forwards).
• Control group matched by age, career length, and performance stats.

---

Key Findings:​

1. Return-to-Play:
   • 81% of players returned to play after ~9.8 months.
   • 10.6% never returned; 8.5% couldn’t complete a full season.
2. Career Length:
   • Post-injury career: 2.8 seasons (control group: 4.4 seasons).
   • Concomitant meniscal injuries shortened careers significantly.
3. Performance:
   • Forwards’ performance dropped after injury:
     • Games played: Pre-injury: 71.2 → Year 1: 58.2 → Year 2: 59.3.
     • Goals: Pre-injury: 20 → Year 1: 13.8 → Year 2: 10.
     • Assists: Pre-injury: 35.2 → Year 1: 25.9 → Year 2: 10.
   • Defensemen showed no major performance decline.
4. Complications:
   • 20% reoperation rate; 8.5% had graft failure.
   • Players over 30 years had higher risks of not returning.

---

Conclusions:​

• Most players return to NHL after ACL injuries, but:
  • Shortened careers and declined performance are common.
  • More severe injuries or insufficient rehab may be factors.
• Hockey ACL injuries are less frequent than in football or basketball but have similar return-to-play timelines (9–12 months).

 

[Sorinth]

How many players paced for 30pts the season after major surgery and then produced significantly better (60pts+) the seasons after -- can you name three from the past two decades? You said it happens all the time.

Monahan had his stud seasons before his injuries derailed his career. Monahan never surpassed his pre-injury career high.

Monahan is slower, more brittle, and less dynamic today than before his many injuries. This is why his team paid us to get rid of him.

How does this fit with Dach? You want to make the comparison, be my guest.

Moving the goal posts much? You asked for examples of players who paced for 30pts after getting injured and then put up 60+ points afterwards. Monahan got injured, paced for 29 points in his final year in Calgary and has put up a 61 point pace since then.

Now you want to move the goal posts and have someone who got injured and had no history of producing before. Something tells me even if I give you a name who satisfies your brand new can't have broken out before the injury goal post shifting you'll try to find some other excuse of why they shouldn't count.

 

[ReHabs]

Moving the goal posts much? You asked for examples of players who paced for 30pts after getting injured and then put up 60+ points afterwards. Monahan got injured, paced for 29 points in his final year in Calgary and has put up a 61 point pace since then.

Now you want to move the goal posts and have someone who got injured and had no history of producing before. Something tells me even if I give you a name who satisfies your brand new can't have broken out before the injury goal post shifting you'll try to find some other excuse of why they shouldn't count.

No goalpost shifting from me. I asked for some examples since the claim was that year-long craters happen “all the time” according to that user.

I’m glad you mentioned Monahan and Vilardi. I don’t think either of them have had enviable or encouraging careers since their injury troubles. Vilardi might be turning the corner or might not be. To be seen. It’s rotten luck for Dach and the Habs, is what it is.