Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[BergevinBurner]

Dach needs to light a fire under himself if he wants to get paid after next season.

I was expecting him to have a slow start after missing this much time, but not this slow. If he doesn't show 2nd line C upside in the 2nd half of this season then management will likely bring in a stop gap 2C this summer. Then next season we'll likely have Suzuki/Stop gap at C and Cole/Slaf/Laine/Demidov on the wings in the top 6 assuming everyone's healthy. So if Dach doesn't pull it together in the back half of this season I think it's pretty likely he'll be relegated to the 3rd line in the last year of his contract. If that doesn't motivate him to play his heart out I don't know what will.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

A similar example would be Justin Williams. Torr his ACL and MCL in 2007, came back and looked like crap the next year, was pacing for 20 something points. He managed to play another decade and was a key player for LA. Williams did have a ton of other injuries during that time though, including an Achilles tear.

Dach wishes he had 20% of the work ethic and the clutch factor of Justin Williams. He just doesn't have it, man. At least, not in Montreal, that's for sure. He obviously can't handle the heat.

 

[ReHabs]

Dach wishes he had 20% of the work ethic and the clutch factor of Justin Williams. He just doesn't have it, man. At least, not in Montreal, that's for sure. He obviously can't handle the heat.

It’s a very harsh take you have here.

Chicago fans weren’t impressed by his effort in his final season there, and the excuse at that time was that he had a big time wrist injury + rehab the season prior.

It could very well be rotten luck that derailed his momentum twice in three years. We’ve heard enough that he’s having a very tough time right now.

Fact is something needs to change, my modest proposal to scratch him for a limited time seems to be too controversial and spicy — the Hughes MSL plan to sit on their hands and forcefeed Dach minutes and opportunities despite his poor efforts doesn’t seem to have much of an effect either.

 

[HuGort]

Dach has long ways to go. He's injury prone, terrible on faceoffs, bad defensively.

 

[ReHabs]

A similar example would be Justin Williams. Torr his ACL and MCL in 2007, came back and looked like crap the next year, was pacing for 20 something points. He managed to play another decade and was a key player for LA. Williams did have a ton of other injuries during that time though, including an Achilles tear.

Very good example. And it works to my point: Williams had a history of production and leadership and despite this Carolina traded him to LA who sought his professional experience and used him as a middle6er. He defied the odds and carved a second half of a career for himself.

Dach doesn’t have such a reputation or CV but he could have such a recovery. I doubt the Habs will dump him but he’s not in a safe position as a professional hockey player. The soothsayers and patience mongers are either lying or in denial when they insist that everything is fine.

 

[HabbyGuy]

I doubt the Habs will dump him but he’s not in a safe position as a professional hockey player. The soothsayers and patience mongers are either lying or in denial when they insist that everything is fine.

LOL at soothsayers and patience mongers. I've noticed the Josh Anderson and Gallagher threads have taken an abrupt u-turn in the rush to judge them as useless and or cooked.

I'm sure there must be a lesson there somewhere, hmmm, wonder what it could be?

 

[Gaud]

Yep, I said as much in the post-game thread. Dach, Newhook and Barron were supposed to speed up the rebuild. We traded Lehkonen away for Barron and a second. Makes me want to puke.

I havent quite given up on Dach, but on the plus side for you, that 2nd was used to move up and grab Hage.

 

[Gaud]

People wrote off Heineman. Now they’re clamouring for him to be in the top 6.

Caufield was finally showing his REAL colours last year and he was a net negative not even a top 6er and we just had to deal with it. Now he’s one of the top goal scorers in the league and near a PPG.

Slaf’s a bum not a bum and now a bum again maybe kind of we’ll see what he does next game even though he probably has a very similar ppg to Rantanen at the same age. And compares very favourably production wise to other young stars in the league.

Things can change real fast. It’s not like he’d be some freakish outlier if he took another 30 games or so to get it back. It happens ALL THE TIME lol.

If Hughes traded him as many want to like right this second, you’d freak out if he got it back and it would be ‘why did we only wait 20 games?!?!’ lolol. Like have an ounce of self awareness haha Jesus.

Habs fans are fickle, and we've never had a rebuild. It's easy to get impatient. We see the kids have talent, but forget that experience is the most expensive commodity. You won't build consistency when you have new scenarios you've never seen happening daily. It's going to be the same with Demidov next year - if he doesnt get X points, people are going to say he is a bust. It might take 3-4 years before he makes meaningful contributions. (I am excited by what im seeing though).

I also wonder how a long term injury can affect your career. Dach was very promising when it happened - i remember Mtl Media talking about whether he was Mtl's true #1C over Suzuki. I remember he is the one that first started showing chemistry with Slaf and i was excited because those two are BIG boys. He seems to have a solid IQ out there, and I disagree with those saying that he doesnt have heart or attitude; i've seen him take a cheap hit, leave the game for the concussion protocol and hten come back an fight the guy that hit him and beat the snot out of him. I think he had a goal or something after.

For now, he needs to figure out his faceoffs and to let go of his frustration. I wouldn't mind seeing him with Gallagher to see what happens. The guy is thinking too much IMO.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Habs fans are fickle, and we've never had a rebuild. It's easy to get impatient. We see the kids have talent, but forget that experience is the most expensive commodity. You won't build consistency when you have new scenarios you've never seen happening daily. It's going to be the same with Demidov next year - if he doesnt get X points, people are going to say he is a bust. It might take 3-4 years before he makes meaningful contributions. (I am excited by what im seeing though).

I also wonder how a long term injury can affect your career. Dach was very promising when it happened - i remember Mtl Media talking about whether he was Mtl's true #1C over Suzuki. I remember he is the one that first started showing chemistry with Slaf and i was excited because those two are BIG boys. He seems to have a solid IQ out there, and I disagree with those saying that he doesnt have heart or attitude; i've seen him take a cheap hit, leave the game for the concussion protocol and hten come back an fight the guy that hit him and beat the snot out of him. I think he had a goal or something after.

For now, he needs to figure out his faceoffs and to let go of his frustration. I wouldn't mind seeing him with Gallagher to see what happens. The guy is thinking too much IMO.

His best shift last game came with Slaf and Anderson.

I'd say put him with Anderson and Heineman, get some big body straight line speedsters on his line who have a willingness to pull the trigger and just let him get involved with moving his feet and playing heavy with them.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Dach wishes he had 20% of the work ethic and the clutch factor of Justin Williams. He just doesn't have it, man. At least, not in Montreal, that's for sure. He obviously can't handle the heat.

I’m sure in that season early in his career some people were probably writing off Williams as lazy or whatever.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I havent quite given up on Dach, but on the plus side for you, that 2nd was used to move up and grab Hage.

Him being bad is a huge factor in our brutal season. We were counting on him for a lot. Not having him play well disrupted the whole lineup.

 

[Gaud]

Him being bad is a huge factor in our brutal season. We were counting on him for a lot. Not having him play well disrupted the whole lineup.

The way he was playing in camp and in the first 2 games last year , we definitely would have been more "in the mix " than we are now.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I havent quite given up on Dach, but on the plus side for you, that 2nd was used to move up and grab Hage.

Dach's been playing better lately. So hopefully that's a sign of him getting back to his form from before the injury. Because before he got hurt in the 2nd game last year, he was really good.

 

[Gaud]

His best shift last game came with Slaf and Anderson.

I'd say put him with Anderson and Heineman, get some big body straight line speedsters on his line who have a willingness to pull the trigger and just let him get involved with moving his feet and playing heavy with them.

they had him with Gallagher and noticed that his shifts were shorter now, closer to the 45 second shifts that seem to be the norm nowadays. I wonder how much keeping those two together is beneficial, or if letting him go on his own is better.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Dach has long ways to go. He's injury prone, terrible on faceoffs, bad defensively.

I think he is fully capable of playing well defensively he just doesn't do it which is the annoying part. He's slow but you don't have to be fast to be defensively responsible, he just has to backcheck and stop getting caught flat footed.

If he can become a defensively responsible 3C that's still an important piece for a contending team. The real hope this year was that Dach and Laine showed some promise so that we could have a Slaf-Suzuki-Caufield Demidov-Dach-Laine top-6 next year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The way he was playing in camp and in the first 2 games last year , we definitely would have been more "in the mix " than we are now.

Him being off messes up the whole lineup. Newhook for example needs a decent center to play with. He’s not going to carry a line.

 

[417]

Some of the takes in here are going to age like milk in the desert.

I'll be here for it too.

<---------------

 

[Gaud]

Him being off messes up the whole lineup. Newhook for example needs a decent center to play with. He’s not going to carry a line.

Agreed, though i question where that guy should be too. 3rd liner? Are him and Dach just cases of players who take years to become effective Cs?

 

[junyab]

GJ Kirby. Continue the tank.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I think there’s too much focus on the psychological aspects of his troubles. Lazy, scared to get hurt, lack of confidence, can’t handle Montreal market, ….

ACL/MCL repair can still show physical limitations going into year 2. Range of motion, strength, fitness issues (if strength was primary focus), is there a brace?, …

I think it’s a little from column A and a little from column B, with a pinch of “how good was he, really, pre-injury?”

 

[Rapala]

LOL at soothsayers and patience mongers. I've noticed the Josh Anderson and Gallagher threads have taken an abrupt u-turn in the rush to judge them as useless and or cooked.

I'm sure there must be a lesson there somewhere, hmmm, wonder what it could be?

Happy for Anderson and Gallagher but they weren't acquired as building blocks.
Kirby Dach simple needs to find ways to help his team until he's 100% Mentally and Physically if that ever happens.
I'm not sure what kind of noise he has entering his head right now but he needs to adapt.
I liked his game against NYR except for the late penalty. More of that please.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Some of the takes in here are going to age like milk in the desert.

I'll be here for it too.

<---------------

You and me both, buddy.

I'm not gonna be quiet about it, either.

 

[Rapala]

Dach's been playing better lately. So hopefully that's a sign of him getting back to his form from before the injury. Because before he got hurt in the 2nd game last year, he was really good.

Hopefully we are seeing signs similar to what some of us saw in Slaf last season before he got bumped.
I liked his game against NYR the penalty however took the wind out of his sails IMO.

Hopefully we are now far enough away from that game that he can get back on the horse.
A couple of bounces going his way and a bit of luck on the backend when things break down would help.
Every player makes mistakes the lucky ones have the happy faciility of not getting burned on them.

 

[417]

You and me both, buddy.

I'm not gonna be quiet about it, either.

 

[Rapala]

they had him with Gallagher and noticed that his shifts were shorter now, closer to the 45 second shifts that seem to be the norm nowadays. I wonder how much keeping those two together is beneficial, or if letting him go on his own is better.

That and better cardio to begin with.