Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part II

[OMG67]

I agree with you 100% and I’ve been explaining the exact same thing for months.

There’s little to no chance of getting past Oshawa and Barrie then even if they did it’d be a massacre against London.

It makes infinitely more sense to sell off all the 2005’s who almost assuredly won’t be returning - - Pieniniemi, Uronen, Burns, Miedema - - along with the 2005’s who would never cut it as an OA - - Pickell, Urns, Vaccari - - to focus on next year when Oshawa will be down and out and London will be considerably weaker.

Those guys would bring back a boatload of premium draft picks and young talent.

I really don’t think the Fronts would be looking at a boatload of anything for those players. It would really come down to what teams would pay for Pieniniemi. The other three are draft pick trades. None of them are elite. Miedema has been mostly a disappointment. Same with Burns. Both should be better. They will get some really good picks but I doubt they’d get a player that would move the needle for the rebuild. Picks are great if you use them wisely but Kingston doesn’t have th best drafting record and if you are using the picks as trade pieces, you better have a foundation to build on and they don’t.

They really are in the grey zone because of the unfortunate competitive landscape that has grown around them.

 

[Fischhaber]

I really don’t think the Fronts would be looking at a boatload of anything for those players. It would really come down to what teams would pay for Pieniniemi. The other three are draft pick trades. None of them are elite. Miedema has been mostly a disappointment. Same with Burns. Both should be better. They will get some really good picks but I doubt they’d get a player that would move the needle for the rebuild. Picks are great if you use them wisely but Kingston doesn’t have th best drafting record and if you are using the picks as trade pieces, you better have a foundation to build on and they don’t.

They really are in the grey zone because of the unfortunate competitive landscape that has grown around them.

I think they are in this zone because of nepotism and bad goaltending. They would be far, far better with capable netminding.

The lack of an 08 first rounder and resistance to pick a direction has also been problematic. They seemingly committed before the season to go for it. Get a friggin goaltender and move guys like Hopkins for impact players or you aren't going to be good. It's as simple as that.

 

[OMG67]

I think they are in this zone because of nepotism and bad goaltending. They would be far, far better with capable netminding.

The lack of an 08 first rounder and resistance to pick a direction has also been problematic. They seemingly committed before the season to go for it. Get a friggin goaltender and move guys like Hopkins for impact players or you aren't going to be good. It's as simple as that.

Yeah but even if they did that (assuming Oshawa, Barrie, and Brampton will also add), would it make enough of a difference?

I criticized the goalie acquisition in the offseason thinking it was dumb. So, we agree 100% on that. I think they are missing an elite go to D-Man and a goaltender. But, who do they bring in to play net? Ideally it is not an OA so they can free up that roster spot. I don’t think they need anything up front provided they keep Hopkins but if they move Hopkins, they need to then replace him.

They made two bug mistakes. First, they needed to move Ludwinski last year to push those assets forward. Second, they needed to ensure they picked an ‘08 that would sign. Those two mistakes are literally killing the chances of this team. Their options would be so much deeper right now had they not made those two basic mistakes. And make no mistake, those are BASIC mistakes.

 

[leafs4life94]

Technically speaking, they aren’t pushing assets forward. They are simply not depleting more assets. All they would need to do is sell Battaglia at a good return, stay somewhat competitive and keep pushing forward.

If the Fronts want to make a real run this year, they pretty much need to commit to a Peterborough level buy/sell and in this current competitive landscape, doing that doesn’t even give them more than a 50-50 shot at getting to round 3. And, if they run into a hot goalie in round one, they may not get out of round one.

If they sell this year, what are they selling? Burns? Who are they truly selling for a major return? The strength of the Fronts is the overall depth. They don’t have an elite 19 year old at any position. Maybe Pieniniemi would garner a solid return, same with Uronen but they are Improts and the market is typically similar to OA’s. They aren’t going to get rich trading those guys. I see a lot of draf tpick type deals for the Fronts players if they sold. What good are they to Kingston if they don’t have a foundation to build on?

I would tinker this year. Try to win a. Round. Give a valiant effort. Use the experience. Maybe trade Battaglia next year and keep pushing forward with confidence.

Don't get me wrong - I totally get where you're coming from and the landscape this year has destroyed any chance of a deep run - but from a fan perspective winning one round and getting dumped does absolutely nothing but cause frustration, and not to get back into the whole fandom (or lack thereof) conversation - but why would fans invest any sort of money or time in a team that's content with one playoff round win and an E for Effort.

Not that this is a hot take, but I'm a stark believer that teams have success with high end 19 year olds or 18 year olds. Kingston has no foundation for the next 2 years for the 18/19 year olds. They have one elite 19 year old next year in Battaglia, and one high end (not quite elite) 18 year in Hopkins. Looking a year further and it gets no better.

I also seem to recall that Pieniniemi and Uronen are really tight so I can't imagine they'd be happy if they were split up and although I think they're probably the best import duo in the league, how many teams would be willing to trade both? Honestly the competing team that'd be most willing to upgrade both import slots could be Oshawa - Uronen and Pienieniemi are straight upgrades on Sinivuori/Svozil, and then they'd be able to upgrade D'Amato for an OA forward to shore up some depth.

I don't think it'll happen, but if they do decide to move an '05 or two Burns has to have the most value, he'd probably be the third best 19 y/o D on the block after Gibson and Allen (although I may be forgetting someone).

Yeah but even if they did that (assuming Oshawa, Barrie, and Brampton will also add), would it make enough of a difference?

I criticized the goalie acquisition in the offseason thinking it was dumb. So, we agree 100% on that. I think they are missing an elite go to D-Man and a goaltender. But, who do they bring in to play net? Ideally it is not an OA so they can free up that roster spot. I don’t think they need anything up front provided they keep Hopkins but if they move Hopkins, they need to then replace him.

They made two bug mistakes. First, they needed to move Ludwinski last year to push those assets forward. Second, they needed to ensure they picked an ‘08 that would sign. Those two mistakes are literally killing the chances of this team. Their options would be so much deeper right now had they not made those two basic mistakes. And make no mistake, those are BASIC mistakes.

It's not even just the Ludwinski hold, which admittedly I was on the fence on whether they should hold or trade him, but the fact that they spend a 2/3/5 on Dubois. I get they had an open OA spot but just fill that in with an extra OA around the league, don't spend premium picks adding one...

 

[Fischhaber]

Yeah but even if they did that (assuming Oshawa, Barrie, and Brampton will also add), would it make enough of a difference?

I criticized the goalie acquisition in the offseason thinking it was dumb. So, we agree 100% on that. I think they are missing an elite go to D-Man and a goaltender. But, who do they bring in to play net? Ideally it is not an OA so they can free up that roster spot. I don’t think they need anything up front provided they keep Hopkins but if they move Hopkins, they need to then replace him.

They made two bug mistakes. First, they needed to move Ludwinski last year to push those assets forward. Second, they needed to ensure they picked an ‘08 that would sign. Those two mistakes are literally killing the chances of this team. Their options would be so much deeper right now had they not made those two basic mistakes. And make no mistake, those are BASIC mistakes.

We've been over the goaltending options, both 04 and 05, but suffice to say that there are a few out there.

If you go with a guy like Gillespie then you could grab a guy like Konnor Smith or you could move Hopkins for a Gibson/Allard package and improve on Hopkins while also adding a #1 defender. I think those kind of moves makes them match up favourably against a team like Brampton, but that's all subjective. They have to commit though. Standing pat or making small moves just ensures a first or second round exit in a deep conference.

 

[OMG67]

We've been over the goaltending options, both 04 and 05, but suffice to say that there are a few out there.

If you go with a guy like Gillespie then you could grab a guy like Konnor Smith or you could move Hopkins for a Gibson/Allard package and improve on Hopkins while also adding a #1 defender. I think those kind of moves makes them match up favourably against a team like Brampton, but that's all subjective. They have to commit though. Standing pat or making small moves just ensures a first or second round exit in a deep conference.

I’m on the record suggesting that Kingston should be knocking on Peterborough’s front door inquiring on Bowen. If his price tag is reasonable, he’s the guy IMO that makes sense. You and I are 100% aligned in that regard.

Don't get me wrong - I totally get where you're coming from and the landscape this year has destroyed any chance of a deep run - but from a fan perspective winning one round and getting dumped does absolutely nothing but cause frustration, and not to get back into the whole fandom (or lack thereof) conversation - but why would fans invest any sort of money or time in a team that's content with one playoff round win and an E for Effort.

Not that this is a hot take, but I'm a stark believer that teams have success with high end 19 year olds or 18 year olds. Kingston has no foundation for the next 2 years for the 18/19 year olds. They have one elite 19 year old next year in Battaglia, and one high end (not quite elite) 18 year in Hopkins. Looking a year further and it gets no better.

I also seem to recall that Pieniniemi and Uronen are really tight so I can't imagine they'd be happy if they were split up and although I think they're probably the best import duo in the league, how many teams would be willing to trade both? Honestly the competing team that'd be most willing to upgrade both import slots could be Oshawa - Uronen and Pienieniemi are straight upgrades on Sinivuori/Svozil, and then they'd be able to upgrade D'Amato for an OA forward to shore up some depth.

I don't think it'll happen, but if they do decide to move an '05 or two Burns has to have the most value, he'd probably be the third best 19 y/o D on the block after Gibson and Allen (although I may be forgetting someone).

It's not even just the Ludwinski hold, which admittedly I was on the fence on whether they should hold or trade him, but the fact that they spend a 2/3/5 on Dubois. I get they had an open OA spot but just fill that in with an extra OA around the league, don't spend premium picks adding one...

I think the Dubois deal needed to be coupled with a bigger Ludwinski deal. I have no issues with the Dubois deal as long as it was coupled with the Ludwinski deal. Ludwinski would have been dealt for over double what was paid for Dubois.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

MRI was clear but it’s still bothering him.
They are playing it safe as he was in pain the Brantford game when he tried to return.

Not entirely accurate - he hasn't had an MRI yet at the time you posted this- just 2 xrays.

3/4 week injury time table right from the get go. Was speaking with Tmann through text yesterday and I asked about him. Some stuff shaking up in Kingston should learn about it in the next few days

Y

 

[AGranderson]

Not entirely accurate - he hasn't had an MRI yet at the time you posted this- just 2 xrays.


Y

I guess we’ll see

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

I think they are in this zone because of nepotism and bad goaltending. They would be far, far better with capable netminding.

The lack of an 08 first rounder and resistance to pick a direction has also been problematic. They seemingly committed before the season to go for it. Get a friggin goaltender and move guys like Hopkins for impact players or you aren't going to be good. It's as simple as that.

Lalonde was playing decently until he got really sick - he hasn't been the same since he returned from his illness.

 

[Donnie740]

I really don’t think the Fronts would be looking at a boatload of anything for those players. It would really come down to what teams would pay for Pieniniemi. The other three are draft pick trades. None of them are elite. Miedema has been mostly a disappointment. Same with Burns. Both should be better. They will get some really good picks but I doubt they’d get a player that would move the needle for the rebuild. Picks are great if you use them wisely but Kingston doesn’t have th best drafting record and if you are using the picks as trade pieces, you better have a foundation to build on and they don’t.

They really are in the grey zone because of the unfortunate competitive landscape that has grown around them.

Look at the return Cam Allen garnered. I don’t view Burns as being that far below the level of Allen.

There’s no question it’s been a seller’s market so far this year. The deals for Leenders, Rehkopf, Barlow and Allen have all ranged between overpayment and outright fleecing.

Maybe the trade market will flip at the deadline, but based on the trades to date it’s a great time to be selling.

 

[OMG67]

Look at the return Cam Allen garnered. I don’t view Burns as being that far below the level of Allen.

There’s no question it’s been a seller’s market so far this year. The deals for Leenders, Rehkopf, Barlow and Allen have all ranged between overpayment and outright fleecing.

Maybe the trade market will flip at the deadline, but based on the trades to date it’s a great time to be selling.

I am not saying the deal will be bad. All I am saying is it will be a picks based deal. I don’t think /burns moves the needle enough for a team to sacrifice a good young player.

 

[Donnie740]

Honestly the competing team that'd be most willing to upgrade both import slots could be Oshawa - Uronen and Pienieniemi are straight upgrades on Sinivuori/Svozil, and then they'd be able to upgrade D'Amato for an OA forward to shore up some depth.

As much as I love Sinovouri’s game, bringing in Pienieiemi and Uronen would be a massive upgrade for Oshawa’s import slots.

I can’t imagine what the cost of that would be, but I’m almost certain that Oshawa doesn’t have the assets to make a move of that significance. They’re already very thin on depth as it is.

Which is why they can’t afford to move D’Amato. The combination of Svozil and Rodriguez/McDonnell is totally unreliable for the playoffs. And as we saw last year when Punnett went down with injury, it’s impossible to win a championship with only four or four-and-a-half reliable defencemen.

Moving D’Amato would mean Oshawa would need to bring in at MINIMUM two dependable defensemen and most likely three. That’s not a realistic possibility.

 

[Sags]

As much as I love Sinovouri’s game, bringing in Pienieiemi and Uronen would be a massive upgrade for Oshawa’s import slots.

I can’t imagine what the cost of that would be, but I’m almost certain that Oshawa doesn’t have the assets to make a move of that significance. They’re already very thin on depth as it is.

Which is why they can’t afford to move D’Amato. The combination of Svozil and Rodriguez/McDonnell is totally unreliable for the playoffs. And as we saw last year when Punnett went down with injury, it’s impossible to win a championship with only four or four-and-a-half reliable defencemen.

Moving D’Amato would mean Oshawa would need to bring in at MINIMUM two dependable defensemen and most likely three. That’s not a realistic

 

[frontsfan67]

I really don’t think the Fronts would be looking at a boatload of anything for those players. It would really come down to what teams would pay for Pieniniemi. The other three are draft pick trades. None of them are elite. Miedema has been mostly a disappointment. Same with Burns. Both should be better. They will get some really good picks but I doubt they’d get a player that would move the needle for the rebuild. Picks are great if you use them wisely but Kingston doesn’t have th best drafting record and if you are using the picks as trade pieces, you better have a foundation to build on and they don’t.

Miedema is over a PPG so far. Is 5 pts away already from what he got last year. He has definitely not been a disappointment this year. I think he will actually get signed by buffalo if he keeps this up. Consistency has been his problem and now he is consistently one of the best fronts every night. At the end of the season if he is a 60-70pt player like he is projected to be I think he gets a contract- if there’s a big drop off in points I don’t see it.

Burns is on pace to pass career highs in points, goals, assists, plus minus, SOG and fewer PIMS than he had last year. He is having a GREAT year. Think he is AHL bound next year for sure.

Pieniniemi is amazing on offence, defensively he could work on some stuff but any team would want him for an import.

Regardless the fronts aren’t selling and there’s no point in talking about a sell off because it’s clear as day they’re going for it even if people here don’t agree with it. Next year they’ll be rebuilding and I hope they choose to build around the 08 group which doesn’t look particularly bad and our 09 group which will include 2 first rounders and probably a 3rd one if they trade Battaglia- potentially 4 if they trade Hopkins but if wait to do that until 2026/27

 

[Donnie740]

Guess you have changed on D’amato….. there was no way they would even think of trading him at the first of the year.

My assessment of D’Amato hasn’t changed at all. Which is why I just reiterated that Oshawa can’t afford to move him because they’re so woefully thin on defense.

 

[Donnie740]

Miedema is over a PPG so far. Is 5 pts away already from what he got last year. He has definitely not been a disappointment this year. I think he will actually get signed by buffalo if he keeps this up. Consistency has been his problem and now he is consistently one of the best fronts every night. At the end of the season if he is a 60-70pt player like he is projected to be I think he gets a contract- if there’s a big drop off in points I don’t see it.

Burns is on pace to pass career highs in points, goals, assists, plus minus, SOG and fewer PIMS than he had last year. He is having a GREAT year. Think he is AHL bound next year for sure.

Pieniniemi is amazing on offence, defensively he could work on some stuff but any team would want him for an import.

Regardless the fronts aren’t selling and there’s no point in talking about a sell off because it’s clear as day they’re going for it even if people here don’t agree with it. Next year they’ll be rebuilding and I hope they choose to build around the 08 group which doesn’t look particularly bad and our 09 group which will include 2 first rounders and probably a 3rd one if they trade Battaglia- potentially 4 if they trade Hopkins but if wait to do that until 2026/27

I completely agree with your assessments.

As for the possibility of Miedema getting a contract from Buffalo, it would be a massive coup for Kingston if he remains unsigned and returns next year as an OA.

 

[PuckLucker]

I really don’t think the Fronts would be looking at a boatload of anything for those players. It would really come down to what teams would pay for Pieniniemi. The other three are draft pick trades. None of them are elite. Miedema has been mostly a disappointment. Same with Burns. Both should be better. They will get some really good picks but I doubt they’d get a player that would move the needle for the rebuild. Picks are great if you use them wisely but Kingston doesn’t have th best drafting record and if you are using the picks as trade pieces, you better have a foundation to build on and they don’t.

They really are in the grey zone because of the unfortunate competitive landscape that has grown around them.

So your thoughts are because there are 10 2005 born players on this roster, just ride it out this year, stay pat not look to trade any assets?
Very strange take, even you say they are in a grey area which means you got off the fence and do one or the other.

#41 on the Fronts is currently a +24 (5th in the league) and gets almost zero PP time to boost points. He plays 25- 30 minutes a game to make up for other D-men that aren't ready/trusted.

#15 on the Fronts has 34 even strength points (Tied for 5th in the league) also gets almost zero PP time to boost points.

Sometimes players are handcuffed by their situation or the team they play for. Kingston doesn't manage assets well, or draft well, so if you have something proven that will provide a future return - I would suggest they make the trades and do a mild sell to recoup draft picks that weren't managed well previously.

 

[leafs4life94]

Miedema is over a PPG so far. Is 5 pts away already from what he got last year. He has definitely not been a disappointment this year. I think he will actually get signed by buffalo if he keeps this up. Consistency has been his problem and now he is consistently one of the best fronts every night. At the end of the season if he is a 60-70pt player like he is projected to be I think he gets a contract- if there’s a big drop off in points I don’t see it.

Burns is on pace to pass career highs in points, goals, assists, plus minus, SOG and fewer PIMS than he had last year. He is having a GREAT year. Think he is AHL bound next year for sure.

Pieniniemi is amazing on offence, defensively he could work on some stuff but any team would want him for an import.

Regardless the fronts aren’t selling and there’s no point in talking about a sell off because it’s clear as day they’re going for it even if people here don’t agree with it. Next year they’ll be rebuilding and I hope they choose to build around the 08 group which doesn’t look particularly bad and our 09 group which will include 2 first rounders and probably a 3rd one if they trade Battaglia- potentially 4 if they trade Hopkins but if wait to do that until 2026/27

I think the Miedema aspect is that yeah he's been doing well but sometimes it looks like he has the tools to be a borderline top 20 forward in the league, but he very rarely puts it all together. If he played to his ceiling on a consistent basis he'd be leading the team in points and goals (although I suppose that could be said about several players).

I was iffy on whether he'd be signed but after digging into the Sabres depth chart I think he will - they only have two other forwards whose rights expire in June 2025 - I think they'll sign one of them (Marjala - PPG in Liiga) but let the other (van Barnekow) walk. Depending on how many of the non-roster forwards they don't re-sign (they have 7 Forwards expiring), they should have contract slots to sign him if they've seen enough.

 

[OMG67]

So your thoughts are because there are 10 2005 born players on this roster, just ride it out this year, stay pat not look to trade any assets?
Very strange take, even you say they are in a grey area which means you got off the fence and do one or the other.

#41 on the Fronts is currently a +24 (5th in the league) and gets almost zero PP time to boost points. He plays 25- 30 minutes a game to make up for other D-men that aren't ready/trusted.

#15 on the Fronts has 34 even strength points (Tied for 5th in the league) also gets almost zero PP time to boost points.

Sometimes players are handcuffed by their situation or the team they play for. Kingston doesn't manage assets well, or draft well, so if you have something proven that will provide a future return - I would suggest they make the trades and do a mild sell to recoup draft picks that weren't managed well previously.

If the Fronts have a player they can trade and acquire a high ceiling skater for one of their 19 year olds then yes, do it. But, I don’t believe they do. I think they can only acquire primarily draft picks. I don’t’ think that works for them. I think it is better to tinker cheaply and try to win a round in the payoffs, return an “ok” roster fueled with reasonable draft picks in hand. I don’t see how trading their 19 year olds to bulk up draft picks only to not be able to use them to support the next run. So, unless th picks they acquire are mostly 2025 and 2026 picks, they wouldn’t even be able to use them to draft bodies in the short term.

This is why I said in the offseason to wait to see what the landscape looks like closer to the deadline while also having an opportunity to see where the gaps are and whether they can be reasonably filled to compete with the front runners.

If they stand pat and may tinker cheaply, IMO, they likely still win a round in the playoffs. If they blow their brains out now at the deadline, they. Still likley don’t’ get past round two. So, buying really isn’t ideal. So, the assessment needs to be whether to sell and what they could get if they sold. Their most valuable pieces are Battaglia (who they can sell next year), Burns, and Pieniniemi. Battaglia may get that ‘08 but I think he may get an ‘09 next year depending on the landscape. Burns and Pieniniemi may get a player back but nothing with a high ceiling. So, the trades will be picks based. Is that enough of an incentive to throw in the towel?

Miedema is over a PPG so far. Is 5 pts away already from what he got last year. He has definitely not been a disappointment this year. I think he will actually get signed by buffalo if he keeps this up. Consistency has been his problem and now he is consistently one of the best fronts every night. At the end of the season if he is a 60-70pt player like he is projected to be I think he gets a contract- if there’s a big drop off in points I don’t see it.

Burns is on pace to pass career highs in points, goals, assists, plus minus, SOG and fewer PIMS than he had last year. He is having a GREAT year. Think he is AHL bound next year for sure.

Pieniniemi is amazing on offence, defensively he could work on some stuff but any team would want him for an import.

Regardless the fronts aren’t selling and there’s no point in talking about a sell off because it’s clear as day they’re going for it even if people here don’t agree with it. Next year they’ll be rebuilding and I hope they choose to build around the 08 group which doesn’t look particularly bad and our 09 group which will include 2 first rounders and probably a 3rd one if they trade Battaglia- potentially 4 if they trade Hopkins but if wait to do that until 2026/27

I agree they aren’t selling. The question is whether they blow their brains out to buy while giving them maybe a 15% better chance of getting out of round 2.

 

[OMG67]

I think the Miedema aspect is that yeah he's been doing well but sometimes it looks like he has the tools to be a borderline top 20 forward in the league, but he very rarely puts it all together. If he played to his ceiling on a consistent basis he'd be leading the team in points and goals (although I suppose that could be said about several players).

I was iffy on whether he'd be signed but after digging into the Sabres depth chart I think he will - they only have two other forwards whose rights expire in June 2025 - I think they'll sign one of them (Marjala - PPG in Liiga) but let the other (van Barnekow) walk. Depending on how many of the non-roster forwards they don't re-sign (they have 7 Forwards expiring), they should have contract slots to sign him if they've seen enough.

Ottawa has Foster that produces at the same level with less overall support. Miedema has a bigger frame but doesn’t use it consistently or effectively. Just us talking about Miedema returning potentially as an OA tells you all you need to know about his overall performance this year. He has the frame and tools to be far more consistently productive. But he isn’t.

 

[leafs4life94]

If the Fronts have a player they can trade and acquire a high ceiling skater for one of their 19 year olds then yes, do it. But, I don’t believe they do. I think they can only acquire primarily draft picks. I don’t’ think that works for them. I think it is better to tinker cheaply and try to win a round in the payoffs, return an “ok” roster fueled with reasonable draft picks in hand. I don’t see how trading their 19 year olds to bulk up draft picks only to not be able to use them to support the next run. So, unless th picks they acquire are mostly 2025 and 2026 picks, they wouldn’t even be able to use them to draft bodies in the short term.

This is why I said in the offseason to wait to see what the landscape looks like closer to the deadline while also having an opportunity to see where the gaps are and whether they can be reasonably filled to compete with the front runners.

If they stand pat and may tinker cheaply, IMO, they likely still win a round in the playoffs. If they blow their brains out now at the deadline, they. Still likley don’t’ get past round two. So, buying really isn’t ideal. So, the assessment needs to be whether to sell and what they could get if they sold. Their most valuable pieces are Battaglia (who they can sell next year), Burns, and Pieniniemi. Battaglia may get that ‘08 but I think he may get an ‘09 next year depending on the landscape. Burns and Pieniniemi may get a player back but nothing with a high ceiling. So, the trades will be picks based. Is that enough of an incentive to throw in the towel?



I agree they aren’t selling. The question is whether they blow their brains out to buy while giving them maybe a 15% better chance of getting out of round 2.

I guess that's where I disagree - I don't think they'll be returning even an "ok" roster. Half their roster will likely be players new to playing a regular shift at this level - even players like Buttar and Kelly, although they've played in the majority of games, haven't been getting regular minutes, especially in tight games.

Ottawa has Foster that produces at the same level with less overall support. Miedema has a bigger frame but doesn’t use it consistently or effectively. Just us talking about Miedema returning potentially as an OA tells you all you need to know about his overall performance this year. He has the frame and tools to be far more consistently productive. But he isn’t.

Foster gets significantly more opportunity though - 14 PP points vs Miedema's 2 - which then starts the argument of what's more important for production - opportunity (Foster) or support (Miedema). Either way they're both players in similar enough positions that it's a fair comparison in terms of value.

 

[OMG67]

I guess that's where I disagree - I don't think they'll be returning even an "ok" roster. Half their roster will likely be players new to playing a regular shift at this level - even players like Buttar and Kelly, although they've played in the majority of games, haven't been getting regular minutes, especially in tight games.


Foster gets significantly more opportunity though - 14 PP points vs Miedema's 2 - which then starts the argument of what's more important for production - opportunity (Foster) or support (Miedema). Either way they're both players in similar enough positions that it's a fair comparison in terms of value.

When you return McGowan, Soto and Meidema as OA’s, that helps. You have a #1 centre with Hopkins and a #1 winger with Battaglia. The defence is thin but workable. Two Import slots available to use.

This is not the Peterborough Petes coming into this season, that is for sure. Very sizable parts for trade deadline type moves.

It is easily a playoff team as a status quo roster. Oshawa will be rebuilding. Barrie too. Maybe Brampton. Ottawa will be ok but rebuilding.Petes will take a step forward but they aren’t deep in ‘05s and ‘06s so they will still struggle. The Eastern conference in general will be weaker next year. Looks like Brantford and Niagara will be battling it out. We’ll see who joins them.

 

[frontsfan67]

When you return McGowan, Soto and Meidema as OA’s, that helps. You have a #1 centre with Hopkins and a #1 winger with Battaglia. The defence is thin but workable. Two Import slots available to use.

This is not the Peterborough Petes coming into this season, that is for sure. Very sizable parts for trade deadline type moves.

It is easily a playoff team as a status quo roster. Oshawa will be rebuilding. Barrie too. Maybe Brampton. Ottawa will be ok but rebuilding.Petes will take a step forward but they aren’t deep in ‘05s and ‘06s so they will still struggle. The Eastern conference in general will be weaker next year. Looks like Brantford and Niagara will be battling it out. We’ll see who joins them.

Next year it would just be the same thing anyways. Good but not good enough. They’re in a real tough situation and I think they either have to blow their brains out or do a mild sell. There isn’t much of an in between

 

[OMG67]

Next year it would just be the same thing anyways. Good but not good enough. They’re in a real tough situation and I think they either have to blow their brains out or do a mild sell. There isn’t much of an in between

They aren’t going to mild sell. So the question really is whether a 15% increase in their chances of getting out of round 2 is worth blowing their brains out.

 

[leafs4life94]

When you return McGowan, Soto and Meidema as OA’s, that helps. You have a #1 centre with Hopkins and a #1 winger with Battaglia. The defence is thin but workable. Two Import slots available to use.

This is not the Peterborough Petes coming into this season, that is for sure. Very sizable parts for trade deadline type moves.

It is easily a playoff team as a status quo roster. Oshawa will be rebuilding. Barrie too. Maybe Brampton. Ottawa will be ok but rebuilding.Petes will take a step forward but they aren’t deep in ‘05s and ‘06s so they will still struggle. The Eastern conference in general will be weaker next year. Looks like Brantford and Niagara will be battling it out. We’ll see who joins them.

I guess it depends on how other all-in teams approach next year - Barrie has Beaudoin, Patterson and Aitcheson as an '06 core but will need to recoup assets. Oshawa will largely depend on Sennecke but will have Danford as well as a couple good OAs in Buckley and Sandhu - although goaltending might be an issue since Gravelle hasn't really impressed, but again will also need to recoup assets. Brampton has Martone, assuming he's back, but also has Ivankovic who can be an X-Factor.

I'd put Kingston's likely OAs up against anyone in the league (off the top of my head without looking around) but beyond that it could be dicey.

Hopefully they hit on both of their '09 firsts, the '08s impress with more ice-time/responsibility and Betts continues to be as advertised - then maybe they can be competitive in 2 years.