Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part I

[frontsfan67]

I know this has been said repeatedly but Cooper should have drafted the good player willing to come to Kingston knowing he may be traded in a few months. As OMG properly states, the Frontenacs are handcuffed and would have to give up players they need this year in order to get the big fish which is not good business. I have no inside knowledge of the Frontenacs but common sense tells me that it's quite possible that this drafting mistake may get Cooper his walking papers at the end of the year if there isn't a decent playoff run.

Absolutely. If they had picked a guy like McLean or Amidovski or Challenger (all 3 were available at the time and I was hoping for McLean) they could either use one of them on the 3rd line or trade them for a big piece.

Definitely messed up. Just like Brampton. But Brampton atleast took a big chance on the best or second best in the draft.

 

[Voice from the North]

You can form the opinion that Musty has an attitude and is not a team oriented player based on an insecure Sudburian wolves homer upset about Musty wanting something more fitting of his current desires.

Let me rephrase that for you. Several people in the know around the OHL are well aware of Musty's attitude. Frontsfan67 is exactly right in this case

That being said, since he has been back with the Wolves, he has displayed a much improved attitude on and off the ice and a much improved commitment to team play thanks to the much improved coaching staff. Mann sounds like a similar style coach to Scott Barney so there would be no reason to assume the good behavior and improved habits wouldn't continue. if I was Kingston, I would at the very least inquire as to what it would take to get Musty.

 

[OMG67]

I know this has been said repeatedly but Cooper should have drafted the good player willing to come to Kingston knowing he may be traded in a few months. As OMG properly states, the Frontenacs are handcuffed and would have to give up players they need this year in order to get the big fish which is not good business. I have no inside knowledge of the Frontenacs but common sense tells me that it's quite possible that this drafting mistake may get Cooper his walking papers at the end of the year if there isn't a decent playoff run.

There is a possible strategy that would suggest drafting the difficult to report player protects them from having to trade the asset. I can see the logic behind it. At least teams cannot demand it in a deal. It may put Kingston a bit behind the 8-ball but if they aren’t overly picky about who they get, it may not work out badly. It helps the rebuild next year with two 1st rounders.

Let me rephrase that for you. Several people in the know around the OHL are well aware of Musty's attitude. Frontsfan67 is exactly right in this case

That being said, since he has been back with the Wolves, he has displayed a much improved attitude on and off the ice and a much improved commitment to team play thanks to the much improved coaching staff. Mann sounds like a similar style coach to Scott Barney so there would be no reason to assume the good behavior and improved habits wouldn't continue. if I was Kingston, I would at the very least inquire as to what it would take to get Musty.

I’d be looking at Musty as the potential #1 Offensive Forward weapon at the deadline if he is available. This assumes Saginaw doesn’t make Misa available. The only team looking for offence from the forward units that wouldn’t want Musty is a team that desperately needs a centre and prioritized it over the higher ceiling offence. Lardis, Romani, and Pinelli would be the ones lagging a bit behind. We don’t know what Brantford will do and there has been talk of Romani staying for a potential OA seasons so who knows?

 

[FrontalLobe]

Let me rephrase that for you. Several people in the know around the OHL are well aware of Musty's attitude. Frontsfan67 is exactly right in this case

That being said, since he has been back with the Wolves, he has displayed a much improved attitude on and off the ice and a much improved commitment to team play thanks to the much improved coaching staff. Mann sounds like a similar style coach to Scott Barney so there would be no reason to assume the good behavior and improved habits wouldn't continue. if I was Kingston, I would at the very least inquire as to what it would take to get Musty.

Exactly. It's not an opinion Frontsfan67 formed based on Musty's wishes or demands. It's about how he is perceived by current and former teammates.

 

[dirty12]

are you basing your opinion based off when he was drafted? Hate to break it to you but a lot can happen in 3 years

Basing it off three years. I saw some off-ice interaction between teammates last spring, they were having a real good time. I don’t hate to break it to you.
Honestly, I think Musty has handled his trade request not being honoured like a champ.

 

[Wolfman Jack]

Musty is picking up steam and his offensive wizardry has come through in the last week. Seems much more focused and the overall desire to play the game is present. He isn't sulking by any means and as far as I'm concerned he should be the number one target for any team looking to go all the way.

Kingston, London, Erie, Brampton, Windsor and Brantford should all be in the running unless Kitchener decides to hop in the race. All those teams have quality younger players and picks to make it happen. Musty has been electric since his return and I believe the coaching team in Sudbury has him playing his best hockey since he has been here.

Kingston getting Musty to in a deal would be a huge get. Toss in the likes of McCoy and those two pieces would put Kingston right up there. However Hopkins would have to be part of the deal IMO.

WJ

 

[Fischhaber]

Don’t know if I’d go as far as saying the leagues top goalie lol but he could be an upgrade yes. Would I give 2 2nds and a 3rd for an upgrade on an already decent OA goalie? Hell no.

Given that he's on a first place team, Lalonde has a very poor save percentage. You watch the team a lot more than me though, so maybe the Fronts give up a very high number of quality chances and he's standing on his head.

I've been a critic of Schenkel for years, but this season he's been absolutely unbelievable. He has the best stats in the league by a pretty significant margin on a shaky defensive team. I don't know if he's the best goalie, but he's undoubtedly been the best so far.

 

[frontsfan67]

Musty is picking up steam and his offensive wizardry has come through in the last week. Seems much more focused and the overall desire to play the game is present. He isn't sulking by any means and as far as I'm concerned he should be the number one target for any team looking to go all the way.

Kingston, London, Erie, Brampton, Windsor and Brantford should all be in the running unless Kitchener decides to hop in the race. All those teams have quality younger players and picks to make it happen. Musty has been electric since his return and I believe the coaching team in Sudbury has him playing his best hockey since he has been here.

Kingston getting Musty to in a deal would be a huge get. Toss in the likes of McCoy and those two pieces would put Kingston right up there. However Hopkins would have to be part of the deal IMO.

WJ

A musty AND McCoy deal would make me consider it. If it’s just musty for Hopkins though I wouldn’t take that

Still I would absolutely prefer a (potential) 2 year player like Luchanko or mews even if they had to overpay because they can get some of those picks back the following year

 

[beastintheeast]

I know this has been said repeatedly but Cooper should have drafted the good player willing to come to Kingston knowing he may be traded in a few months. As OMG properly states, the Frontenacs are handcuffed and would have to give up players they need this year in order to get the big fish which is not good business. I have no inside knowledge of the Frontenacs but common sense tells me that it's quite possible that this drafting mistake may get Cooper his walking papers at the end of the year if there isn't a decent playoff run.

It's not the playoff run that is going to hurt Cooper, but it would be what they have returning. Cooper, for all his lack of experience, has done reasonably well. Remember, he had Mav and Gilmour to teach him and an owner that wants results no matter what.
As to the deadline unless an offer comes out of the blue like Musty saying he wil only play in Kingston I think we will see soft buys.

There are 2 reasons, first being that Kingston does not have the players to compete in a bidding war with the top teams.
You do not have any OA room to get a cheap rental.
Cooper needs to look at teams and see if a 19-year-old RD is available. Can he match a price that makes it a win for both?

Next year, your D leader will be McGowan, and while he is playing well, is he really the stud you want to put your team's defence on?

 

[Generalsupdates]

I've been a critic of Schenkel for years, but this season he's been absolutely unbelievable. He has the best stats in the league by a pretty significant margin on a shaky defensive team. I don't know if he's the best goalie, but he's undoubtedly been the best so far.

If the season ended today, Jackson Parsons would win OHL goalie of the year for the best goalie in the league this season

 

[Fischhaber]

If the season ended today, Jackson Parsons would win OHL goalie of the year for the best goalie in the league this season

I agree. He's been slightly worse statistically, but the win-loss record would put him ahead in the eyes of voters.

 

[frontsfan67]

The more I look at the fronts draft picks the more I wonder what they’re going to do.
6x 2nds and 8x, 3rds over the next 4 years

 

[beastintheeast]

The more I look at the fronts draft picks the more I wonder what they’re going to do.
6x 2nds and 8x, 3rds over the next 4 years

Based on draft picks teams that don't have much could be the place to go.

An example would be to offer Weiss a couple of second-round picks and further out picks for a player like Mews, where Ottawa needs to replenish its cupboard. same with Sudbury for Musty. Musty willnot be an attitude issue after the trade as I think he will probably dictate where he goes.

 

[OMG67]

Based on draft picks teams that don't have much could be the place to go.

An example would be to offer Weiss a couple of second-round picks and further out picks for a player like Mews, where Ottawa needs to replenish its cupboard. same with Sudbury for Musty. Musty willnot be an attitude issue after the trade as I think he will probably dictate where he goes.

Weir is a valueless player in a trade. He cannot find a spot int he lineup right now. He hasn’t produced at all. Maybe a team takes a chance on Velliaris or Moore? They both have some size from the back end. Moore seems to have reigned in that 6th D-Man spot for now. Maybe one of those two could be used in a deal for Andonovski or Gibson? Maybe?

Mews is a two year player. Boyd won’t deal with Kingston unless he has to. Kingston’s expendable players don’t help Ottawa which makes it a picks only deal and Ottawa won’t do that willingly.

Same with Sudbury. Musty’s value is same as Barlow/Rehkopf etc. Cost would be in the range of 3x(2nds, 3rds, 4ths) for a total of nine high picks. I doubt Musty or Mews are traded without an ‘08 or two decent ceiling ‘07s coming back with an additional two 2nds and two 3rds. Mews may be more as a two year player. He’s currently on a 1.2 PPG pace. Ottawa likely only moves Mews IF IF IF he puts his foot down and demands it.

The reality is, Kingston is handcuffed. They need to acquire players that will only be traded for picks. Maybe they get one of Amidovski or Gibson? It will depend on how sought after the D-Men are at the deadline. But, they are sort of at the mercy of the market right now. Picks will get the 2nd Tier players which, to be honest, probably benefit Kingston more. They can add a D-Man and a depth scoring forward or two and they are probably better off with that than just the one elite player.

 

[beastintheeast]

Weir is a valueless player in a trade. He cannot find a spot int he lineup right now. He hasn’t produced at all. Maybe a team takes a chance on Velliaris or Moore? They both have some size from the back end. Moore seems to have reigned in that 6th D-Man spot for now. Maybe one of those two could be used in a deal for Andonovski or Gibson? Maybe?

Mews is a two year player. Boyd won’t deal with Kingston unless he has to. Kingston’s expendable players don’t help Ottawa which makes it a picks only deal and Ottawa won’t do that willingly.

Same with Sudbury. Musty’s value is same as Barlow/Rehkopf etc. Cost would be in the range of 3x(2nds, 3rds, 4ths) for a total of nine high picks. I doubt Musty or Mews are traded without an ‘08 or two decent ceiling ‘07s coming back with an additional two 2nds and two 3rds. Mews may be more as a two year player. He’s currently on a 1.2 PPG pace. Ottawa likely only moves Mews IF IF IF he puts his foot down and demands it.

The reality is, Kingston is handcuffed. They need to acquire players that will only be traded for picks. Maybe they get one of Amidovski or Gibson? It will depend on how sought after the D-Men are at the deadline. But, they are sort of at the mercy of the market right now. Picks will get the 2nd Tier players which, to be honest, probably benefit Kingston more. They can add a D-Man and a depth scoring forward or two and they are probably better off with that than just the one elite player.

I agree. I think Kingston is going to be in a small buy. You are not going to be able to play with the big teams as you have nothing to offer.

Hopkins is a non-starter, considering that you would lose more than you would gain.

 

[Fischhaber]

Weir is a valueless player in a trade. He cannot find a spot int he lineup right now. He hasn’t produced at all. Maybe a team takes a chance on Velliaris or Moore? They both have some size from the back end. Moore seems to have reigned in that 6th D-Man spot for now. Maybe one of those two could be used in a deal for Andonovski or Gibson? Maybe?

Mews is a two year player. Boyd won’t deal with Kingston unless he has to. Kingston’s expendable players don’t help Ottawa which makes it a picks only deal and Ottawa won’t do that willingly.

Same with Sudbury. Musty’s value is same as Barlow/Rehkopf etc. Cost would be in the range of 3x(2nds, 3rds, 4ths) for a total of nine high picks. I doubt Musty or Mews are traded without an ‘08 or two decent ceiling ‘07s coming back with an additional two 2nds and two 3rds. Mews may be more as a two year player. He’s currently on a 1.2 PPG pace. Ottawa likely only moves Mews IF IF IF he puts his foot down and demands it.

The reality is, Kingston is handcuffed. They need to acquire players that will only be traded for picks. Maybe they get one of Amidovski or Gibson? It will depend on how sought after the D-Men are at the deadline. But, they are sort of at the mercy of the market right now. Picks will get the 2nd Tier players which, to be honest, probably benefit Kingston more. They can add a D-Man and a depth scoring forward or two and they are probably better off with that than just the one elite player.

Those teams aren't trading elite defensemen without getting an 08 or a high end 07 back. That almost never happens. That means Tyler Hopkins.

 

[Wolf on a Wire]

Let me rephrase that for you. Several people in the know around the OHL are well aware of Musty's attitude. Frontsfan67 is exactly right in this case

That being said, since he has been back with the Wolves, he has displayed a much improved attitude on and off the ice and a much improved commitment to team play thanks to the much improved coaching staff. Mann sounds like a similar style coach to Scott Barney so there would be no reason to assume the good behavior and improved habits wouldn't continue. if I was Kingston, I would at the very least inquire as to what it would take to get Musty.

9 points in two games (6 vs Windsor, 3 vs North Bay), every contender should be considering him for a run. Oh, did I mention's he’s also on the best PK in the O. 2nd best PK in the CHL. D play is improving. Not perfect but way better.

 

[Wolf on a Wire]

Based on draft picks teams that don't have much could be the place to go.

An example would be to offer Weiss a couple of second-round picks and further out picks for a player like Mews, where Ottawa needs to replenish its cupboard. same with Sudbury for Musty. Musty willnot be an attitude issue after the trade as I think he will probably dictate where he goes.

Not sure what brady pick data base you are looking at but Sudbury is well stocked and shouldn’t be compared to Ottawa, NB etc…

 

[beastintheeast]

Not sure what brady pick data base you are looking at but Sudbury is well stocked and shouldn’t be compared to Ottawa, NB etc…

The challenge is that Kingston only has picks

 

[dirty12]

The challenge is that Kingston only has picks

The challenge is determining which players are available and will improve a team already near the top in goal differential, PK, & PP. A solid OA and Clattenburg, McCue types (should) not require parting with Hopkins.

 

[OMG67]

The challenge is determining which players are available and will improve a team already near the top in goal differential, PK, & PP. A solid OA and Clattenburg, McCue types (should) not require parting with Hopkins.

For me, the challenge is rating the strength of their early schedule. At a glance, it looks very weak. They are 1-4-2 vs the teams currently top 4 in each conference.

Kingston has managed to put up a good record vs the teams they should be beating. 10-1-1 vs teams currently in the bottom four of either Conference.

I think a deeper dive into strength of schedule should be considered. Seven games vs teams in the top 4 of each conference and 12 games vs teams in the bottom 4. That includes three vs Peterborough with a 4th game vs the Petes again tomorrow.

As a comparison, Ottawa has only played the bottom four teams six times and the top four nine times. They haven’t had the luxury of playing the Petes once. So, at this point in the season, strength of schedule can skew the standings and certain statistics a bit.

This is one of the reasons why it is good to wait until closer to the Christmas break to identify needs.

That all said, I fall on your side. I think the asset mix Kingston has matches with their needs. It would be nice to snag an elite player but if Kingston is going to win in the playoffs, it has to be on depth. That second tier of player is really what they should be focused on right now. Adding three bodies to stretch out the lineup is probably essential.

 

[dirty12]

For me, the challenge is rating the strength of their early schedule. At a glance, it looks very weak. They are 1-4-2 vs the teams currently top 4 in each conference.

Kingston has managed to put up a good record vs the teams they should be beating. 10-1-1 vs teams currently in the bottom four of either Conference.

I think a deeper dive into strength of schedule should be considered. Seven games vs teams in the top 4 of each conference and 12 games vs teams in the bottom 4. That includes three vs Peterborough with a 4th game vs the Petes again tomorrow.

As a comparison, Ottawa has only played the bottom four teams six times and the top four nine times. They haven’t had the luxury of playing the Petes once. So, at this point in the season, strength of schedule can skew the standings and certain statistics a bit.

This is one of the reasons why it is good to wait until closer to the Christmas break to identify needs.

That all said, I fall on your side. I think the asset mix Kingston has matches with their needs. It would be nice to snag an elite player but if Kingston is going to win in the playoffs, it has to be on depth. That second tier of player is really what they should be focused on right now. Adding three bodies to stretch out the lineup is probably essential.

Kingston and Oshawa have had equally weak SOS thus far. I’m not sure either need to wait to see what Ottawa does. Though they should be aware Ottawa can beat them.
The schedule is unbalanced. Teams will buy, others sell. The top two in western conference could see a significant change in W%. A case can be made that the OHL standings will always be somewhat skewed.

 

[OMG67]

Kingston and Oshawa have had equally weak SOS thus far. I’m not sure either need to wait to see what Ottawa does. Though they should be aware Ottawa can beat them.
The schedule is unbalanced. Teams will buy, others sell. The top two in western conference could see a significant change in W%. A case can be made that the OHL standings will always be somewhat skewed.

That wasn’t the point. Ottawa is inconsequential. It was just as reference point on schedule balance.

The point you need to consider is 10 of 12 wins are from teams in the bottom 4 of the standings in either conference. If Kingston (or the fans) are looking at results to date to make a decision, I think it would be premature. They need to go up against more of the top teams to get a better sense of where they truly rate. As of right now, their record vs the top teams is very weak. They have not proven capable of beating other top teams with any sort of consistency.

This would suggest that “maybe” Kingston needs more than a couple depth players. But, we really won’t know because their schedule is so weak to date. The sample size vs the real competition is so small.

Kingston’s goal differential against the bottom 3 teams in each conference is +36. They are feasting on bottom feeders. That are -14 vs the top 4 teams. Should we truly use that as an indicator of future success in the playoffs in a way that alters their shopping at the deadline?

 

[dirty12]

That wasn’t the point. Ottawa is inconsequential. It was just as reference point on schedule balance.

The point you need to consider is 10 of 12 wins are from teams in the bottom 4 of the standings in either conference. If Kingston (or the fans) are looking at results to date to make a decision, I think it would be premature. They need to go up against more of the top teams to get a better sense of where they truly rate. As of right now, their record vs the top teams is very weak. They have not proven capable of beating other top teams with any sort of consistency.

This would suggest that “maybe” Kingston needs more than a couple depth players. But, we really won’t know because their schedule is so weak to date. The sample size vs the real competition is so small.

With an equally easy SOS Kingston and Oshawa are separated by a point for the 2-3 seeds, I think. The only question should be what does this team need to be better and secure the #2 or #1 seed.

 

[Fischhaber]

That wasn’t the point. Ottawa is inconsequential. It was just as reference point on schedule balance.

The point you need to consider is 10 of 12 wins are from teams in the bottom 4 of the standings in either conference. If Kingston (or the fans) are looking at results to date to make a decision, I think it would be premature. They need to go up against more of the top teams to get a better sense of where they truly rate. As of right now, their record vs the top teams is very weak. They have not proven capable of beating other top teams with any sort of consistency.

This would suggest that “maybe” Kingston needs more than a couple depth players. But, we really won’t know because their schedule is so weak to date. The sample size vs the real competition is so small.

That's always been the issue with teams from the East. They haven't had a winning record against the West in over 25 years (8 games under .500 already this year), so sometimes you don't really know what the top teams can do against good competition until the OHL finals. The West is always 5-6 deep with strong contenders compared to 1-2 in the East, so they are a bit more battle tested and a known quantity.