Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part I

OMG67 · Tuesday at 12:58 PM

PuckLucker said:
Did you watch this game live or see a replay on Twitter?
Link?

Of the top 25 point getters currently in the OHL, only 2 players have a negative +/- rating
I know this stat isn't always relevant but why is a 20 point player on the Fronts a -1 ???

I understand where you are going with this and I cannot answer it directly but some players compile points on the powerplay. They are very valuable in that situation and are relied on greatly. They may have a deficiency in their game at 5 on 5 but they more than make up for it on the PP. So, if a player is your leader in points but is a relative EVEN on +/-, it means that in 5 on 5 situations, he is average. But if 40% of his points are on the PP, then the player still has great value.

+/- in general is a team stat. You need to compare them against their own teammates. Even when doing that, you should also consider time on ice. A 4th line player that is a +1 and getting 6 minutes of ice per game vs a 1st line player getting 20 minutes per gam and is a -2, doesn’t really tell you much.

I use plus/minus as a measuring stick between lines. If the first line is generally -5 and the 2nd line is generally +5, it would suggest the 2nd line is more responsible and productive 5 on 5. Is it meaningful? Maybe not but it could be a good way of identifying if a line has a gap where the coach can maybe move a few pieces around to see if they have better success.

I also find it is a stronger measuring stick for defence. When you have a D-Man that is -10 and another that is +10, it usually stands out quite a bit.

leafs4life94 · Tuesday at 1:19 PM

OMG67 said:
I understand where you are going with this and I cannot answer it directly but some players compile points on the powerplay. They are very valuable in that situation and are relied on greatly. They may have a deficiency in their game at 5 on 5 but they more than make up for it on the PP. So, if a player is your leader in points but is a relative EVEN on +/-, it means that in 5 on 5 situations, he is average. But if 40% of his points are on the PP, then the player still has great value.

+/- in general is a team stat. You need to compare them against their own teammates. Even when doing that, you should also consider time on ice. A 4th line player that is a +1 and getting 6 minutes of ice per game vs a 1st line player getting 20 minutes per gam and is a -2, doesn’t really tell you much.

I use plus/minus as a measuring stick between lines. If the first line is generally -5 and the 2nd line is generally +5, it would suggest the 2nd line is more responsible and productive 5 on 5. Is it meaningful? Maybe not but it could be a good way of identifying if a line has a gap where the coach can maybe move a few pieces around to see if they have better success.

I also find it is a stronger measuring stick for defence. When you have a D-Man that is -10 and another that is +10, it usually stands out quite a bit.

15 of Battaglia's 20 points are at even strength, compared to 10 of Hopkins' 12 (+3) and 11 of Soto's 13 (+3). The only other top 9 forward that's a minus is Heyes at a -4 (0 PPP).

The fact he's been on the ice for 16 ES goals against when his normal linemates have only been on for 7/8 respectively tells me either he's gotten extra shifts with weaker lineups or, purely speculating - he takes long shifts and stays out too long and gets beat/hemmed in.

He's also the only player to have been on for all three ES OT goals against. Obviously you have to have him out there because of his offensive abilities but his defensive game clearly isn't anywhere near as good as his offensive game.

OMG67 · Tuesday at 1:26 PM

leafs4life94 said:
15 of Battaglia's 20 points are at even strength, compared to 10 of Hopkins' 12 (+3) and 11 of Soto's 13 (+3). The only other top 9 forward that's a minus is Heyes at a -4 (0 PPP).

The fact he's been on the ice for 16 ES goals against when his normal linemates have only been on for 7/8 respectively tells me either he's gotten extra shifts with weaker lineups or, purely speculating - he takes long shifts and stays out too long and gets beat/hemmed in.

He's also the only player to have been on for all three ES OT goals against. Obviously you have to have him out there because of his offensive abilities but his defensive game clearly isn't anywhere near as good as his offensive game.

That taht is a coaching issue where he needs added support to offset his defensive deficiencies, if that is in fact what the situation is. It is also a small sample size so it can be tough when we are talking about 12ish games.

dirty12 · Tuesday at 2:00 PM

PuckLucker said:
Did you watch this game live or see a replay on Twitter?
Link?

Of the top 25 point getters currently in the OHL, only 2 players have a negative +/- rating
I know this stat isn't always relevant but why is a 20 point player on the Fronts a -1 ???

In part because an OA that would pass through league waivers is on that line. I do not watch a whole lot of Kingston, but he stuck out like a sore thumb at NB.

PuckLucker · Tuesday at 3:35 PM

OMG67 said:
I understand where you are going with this and I cannot answer it directly but some players compile points on the powerplay. They are very valuable in that situation and are relied on greatly. They may have a deficiency in their game at 5 on 5 but they more than make up for it on the PP. So, if a player is your leader in points but is a relative EVEN on +/-, it means that in 5 on 5 situations, he is average. But if 40% of his points are on the PP, then the player still has great value.

+/- in general is a team stat. You need to compare them against their own teammates. Even when doing that, you should also consider time on ice. A 4th line player that is a +1 and getting 6 minutes of ice per game vs a 1st line player getting 20 minutes per gam and is a -2, doesn’t really tell you much.

I use plus/minus as a measuring stick between lines. If the first line is generally -5 and the 2nd line is generally +5, it would suggest the 2nd line is more responsible and productive 5 on 5. Is it meaningful? Maybe not but it could be a good way of identifying if a line has a gap where the coach can maybe move a few pieces around to see if they have better success.

I also find it is a stronger measuring stick for defence. When you have a D-Man that is -10 and another that is +10, it usually stands out quite a bit.

dirty12 said:
In part because an OA that would pass through league waivers is on that line. I do not watch a whole lot of Kingston, but he stuck out like a sore thumb at NB.

I'm not sure which player you're speaking about but I can speculate.
These are typically the Fwd Lines and new-ish Def pairings:

FrontalLobe · Wednesday at 7:08 AM

leafs4life94 said:
I wonder if if they give one their three high PIM guys a break at some point here as a message to be disciplined - Burns/McNamara/Miedema alone account for over half of the entire team PIM, and if they sat one of them A) hopefully it'd get the point across of discipline and B) it'd give someone else an opportunity to move up the lineup.

I know on the listed lines they had the D Pairs mixed up on Sunday - did they stick with that the whole game or was it a paper shuffle and they just protected Moore? I wasn't able to watch.

It looked as though they used a 5 man rotation and just spot shifted Moore a few shifts each period.

ScoutLife4 · Wednesday at 10:14 AM

FrontalLobe said:
It looked as though they used a 5 man rotation and just spot shifted Moore a few shifts each period.

Moore played 10 shifts last game if that helps. (assuming you are asking about NB game.

leafs4life94 · Wednesday at 10:48 AM

ScoutLife4 said:
Moore played 10 shifts last game if that helps. (assuming you are asking about NB game.

View attachment 923850

That about tracks with what I'd expect his usage to be. That Guindon line looks like they got absolutely caved in jeez - compared the McNamara line it's night and day.

leafs4life94 · Wednesday at 10:57 AM

U16
2024
# Player Current Team GP G/GAA A/SV TP/SO PIM/W-L-T
1
#8 Caleb Malhotra (F) Chilliwack - BCHL
13
1
6
7
8
2
#26 Nolan Buttar (F) Kingston - OHL
13
0
1
1
2
2
#37 Gavin Betts (G) Pickering - OJHL
7
3.01
0.916
0
3-3-1
4
#79 Tanner Nettleton (D) Windy City - 16U AAA
19
6
7
13
32
5
#87 Camden McCuaig (F) Cornwall - CCHL
10
4
2
6
8
6
#103 Adam Kelly (F) Kingston - OHL
12
0
0
0
0
7
#130 Lincoln Baker (D) Waterloo - U18 Alliance
8
1
1
2
8
9
#170 Kayden Oliver (F) Kitchener-Waterloo - GOJHL
15
3
5
8
18
10
#190 Gabriel Schmidt (D) Markham - U18 OMHA
5
1
2
3
2
11
#208 Rhys Huinink (D) Ajax/Pickering - U18 OMHA
5
0
5
5
6
12
#230 Drake Sled (F) Upper Canada - U18 HEO
5
2
5
7
0
Athens - EOJHL
1
0
0
0
0
13
#250 Josh Levy (D) East Coast - 16U AAA
20
1
10
11
0
14
#270 Jalen Carter (F) Ajax/Pickering U18 OMHA
4
0
3
3
0
14
#281 Nathan Kutansky (D) Chicago - 16U AAA - - - - -
15
#298 Graham Gee (G) Timmins - NOJHL
4
1.51
0.923
0
3-1-0
2023
# Player Current Team GP G/GAA A/SV TP/SO PIM/W-L-T
1
#4 Tyler Hopkins (F) Kingston - OHL
13
6
6
12
0
2
#42 Ethan Weir (F) Kingston - OHL
6
0
0
0
0
3
#45 Xander Velliaris (D) Kingston - OHL
8
0
1
1
9
4
#78 Lukas Moore (D) Kingston - OHL
5
0
0
0
0
5
#86 Kieren Dervin (F) St. Andrews - U18 AAA
16
12
13
25
18
6
#106 Nolan Turnbull (D) Rockland - CCHL
13
2
12
14
6
6
#118 Seth Goble (F) --- - - - - -
7
#126 Noah Paddock (G) Ottawa - CCHL
5
4.03
0.883
0
0-4-0
8
#146 Kevin Perreault (D) Minot - NAHL
9
0
0
0
0
9
#166 Matthew Manza (F) Chilliwack - BCHL - - - - -
10
#186 Gavin Puhl (F) London - U18 Alliance
8
0
5
5
2
11
#206 Andre Mondoux (D) Pickering - OJHL
17
0
4
4
15
12
#226 Griffen Boyle (F) Stouffville - OJHL
19
2
4
6
6
13
#246 Reece Herman (G) Cobourg - OJHL
7
3.5
0.860
0
2-3-2
15
#286 Cole Ellis (D) Wellington - OJHL
14
1
4
5
15
U18
2024
# Player Current Team GP G/GAA A/SV TP/SO PIM/W-L-T
1
#8 Max Shewfelt (F) Carleton Place - CCHL
5
1
0
1
0
2
#28 Darcy Murphy (G) Arnprior - EOJHL
6
3.58
0.914
0
3-3-0
3
#46 John Adlys (D) St. Thomas - GOJHL
12
2
1
3
6
2023
# Player Current Team GP G/GAA A/SV TP/SO PIM/W-L-T
1
#4 Riley Clark (F) Stouffville - OJHL
12
3
3
6
16
Kingston - OHL
8
1
0
1
5
2
#24 Simon Buck (D) --- - - - - -

Had some time yesterday so I wanted to do a little run-down of Kingston prospects to see if there's anyone off to a hot start.

- McQuaig started with 6 pts in 3 games but has gone pointless in his last seven.
- Shewfelt has only played in one game since October 2 - no idea why.
- I know nothing about the different American AAA loops and I found it a little odd that Nettleton went to play in Chicago but he seems to have gotten off to a decent start.
- A little interesting that Manza hasn't played in Chilliwack at all.
- I'd guess either Nolan Turnbull or Andre Mondoux are the next D up if they run into injury issues, Mondoux for size but Turnbull for a little more offense.

frontsfan67 · 2024-10-31T17:18:12-0400

leafs4life94 said:
Had some time yesterday so I wanted to do a little run-down of Kingston prospects to see if there's anyone off to a hot start.

- McQuaig started with 6 pts in 3 games but has gone pointless in his last seven.
- Shewfelt has only played in one game since October 2 - no idea why.
- I know nothing about the different American AAA loops and I found it a little odd that Nettleton went to play in Chicago but he seems to have gotten off to a decent start.
- A little interesting that Manza hasn't played in Chilliwack at all.
- I'd guess either Nolan Turnbull or Andre Mondoux are the next D up if they run into injury issues, Mondoux for size but Turnbull for a little more offense.

Damn they draft absolutely horribly

leafs4life94 · 2024-10-31T18:08:16-0400

frontsfan67 said:
Damn they draft absolutely horribly

It's kind of impressive isn't it? Even looking at the current team, only 4 of the top 9 forwards are Kingston draft picks.

These last couple draft classes have been total whiffs in terms of depth so there could definitely be some real ugly years in a year or two.

frontsfan67 · 2024-10-31T20:55:21-0400

leafs4life94 said:
It's kind of impressive isn't it? Even looking at the current team, only 4 of the top 9 forwards are Kingston draft picks.

These last couple draft classes have been total whiffs in terms of depth so there could definitely be some real ugly years in a year or two.

If they miss on this draft I’m sorry but cooper has to go. I know it’s the scouting but cooper is the one who ultimately picks the players.

Just THIS draft the centres picked after Malholtra were McLean, O’Donnell, Jean Christoph- Lemieux and Crete.

Lemieux and Crete second round picks. ACTUALLY we passed on Crete TWICE. (Buttar picked before him)

2023 first round wasnt bad. Hard to miss with a top 4 pick. I’m not going to say too much about the Hopkins pick. It’s looking good so I’ll let it pass. HOWEVER Ivankovic and O’Brien were both picked after him.

Second and third picks were misses for sure though. Just to name a few picked after Weir and Velliaris- Delisle, Radley, Yanni, Jaedon Nelson (Ottawa actually picked them back to back), Galiyanov (late birthday too he will get better), Nansi.

Now not sure if they were going for best projection with these picks because I remember at the time it was well known Velliaris was a “wait until 2 or 3 years down the road” guy and we have been waiting now this is his second year and he hasn’t gotten any better. Still very raw. Hopefully next year or the second half of the season he starts to impress.

Weir is just a complete disappointment for me. At one point he was a projected first round pick for some, and he fell but still captained that AAA team with Roobroeck on it. Was hoping for big things but I haven’t seen a single thing out of him this year to suggest that.

2022- wish frasca panned out. Great first year with the fronts believe he was 6th in pts per game among the 16 year old rookies. Even still- players drafted after him- Parekh, Vanacker, He.

Absolutely need to hit on this next one with 2 first round picks

PuckLucker · 2024-11-01T08:29:50-0400

frontsfan67 said:
If they miss on this draft I’m sorry but cooper has to go. I know it’s the scouting but cooper is the one who ultimately picks the players.

Just THIS draft the centres picked after Malholtra were McLean, O’Donnell, Jean Christoph- Lemieux and Crete.

Lemieux and Crete second round picks. ACTUALLY we passed on Crete TWICE. (Buttar picked before him)

2023 first round wasnt bad. Hard to miss with a top 4 pick. I’m not going to say too much about the Hopkins pick. It’s looking good so I’ll let it pass. HOWEVER Ivankovic and O’Brien were both picked after him.

Second and third picks were misses for sure though. Just to name a few picked after Weir and Velliaris- Delisle, Radley, Yanni, Jaedon Nelson (Ottawa actually picked them back to back), Galiyanov (late birthday too he will get better), Nansi.

Now not sure if they were going for best projection with these picks because I remember at the time it was well known Velliaris was a “wait until 2 or 3 years down the road” guy and we have been waiting now this is his second year and he hasn’t gotten any better. Still very raw. Hopefully next year or the second half of the season he starts to impress.

Weir is just a complete disappointment for me. At one point he was a projected first round pick for some, and he fell but still captained that AAA team with Roobroeck on it. Was hoping for big things but I haven’t seen a single thing out of him this year to suggest that.

2022- wish frasca panned out. Great first year with the fronts believe he was 6th in pts per game among the 16 year old rookies. Even still- players drafted after him- Parekh, Vanacker, He.

Absolutely need to hit on this next one with 2 first round picks

In unrelated news, Jakub Chromiak has 8 pts in 9 games as a Kitchener Ranger.

Spend a 2nd, a 4th and a 6th to acquire him for 48 games & then flip him for a 7th to Kitchener

East Avenue Bully · 2024-11-01T09:16:09-0400

PuckLucker said:
In unrelated news, Jakub Chromiak has 8 pts in 9 games as a Kitchener Ranger.

Spend a 2nd, a 4th and a 6th to acquire him for 48 games & then flip him for a 7th to Kitchener

Chromiak is on the Kitchener Rangers' top D pairing, with Andonovski. Ando is a stay at home kinda D (as well as an agitator), so it lets Chromiak get involved more in the O zone.

The Rangers know about letting D go, we gave up Tomas Hamara and Roman Schmidt last year to Brantford and Kingston. IIRC, they both got big ice time w their new teams. Our D play went drastically downhill after that.

ScoutLife4 · 2024-11-01T09:46:09-0400

Some players thrive under certain conditions and systems.
I don't think there is any regret choosing Pieniniemi over Chromiak in Kingston.

frontsfan67 · 2024-11-01T10:57:19-0400

PuckLucker said:
In unrelated news, Jakub Chromiak has 8 pts in 9 games as a Kitchener Ranger.

Spend a 2nd, a 4th and a 6th to acquire him for 48 games & then flip him for a 7th to Kitchener

Great use of assets

In all seriousness though I didn’t include that one since we have 2 better imports this year in Pieniniemi and uronen. Definitely could’ve gotten more than a 7th though

frontsfan67 · 2024-11-01T11:09:47-0400

Attendance isn’t looking too good lol blue is empty seats

OMG67 · 2024-11-01T11:14:25-0400

frontsfan67 said:
View attachment 924899
Attendance isn’t looking too good lol blue is empty seats

Brampton just said, “Hold my $14 Beer!”

Kingpin794 · 2024-11-01T11:19:46-0400

frontsfan67 said:
View attachment 924899
Attendance isn’t looking too good lol blue is empty seats

Just a side note: Why are there multiple arenas (Gatineau) in Canada named after Slush Puppies? Seems kind of random. They aren't originally Canadian from what I can tell.

OMG67 · 2024-11-01T11:34:08-0400

Kingpin794 said:
Just a side note: Why are there multiple arenas (Gatineau) in Canada named after Slush Puppies? Seems kind of random. They aren't originally Canadian from what I can tell.

Why are so many arenas and event centres named after TD Bank? TD Bank isn’t originally American.

Kingpin794 · 2024-11-01T11:41:06-0400

OMG67 said:
Why are so many arenas and event centres named after TD Bank? TD Bank isn’t originally American.

Well TD Bank I'd assume is much larger than Slush Puppie/has a larger footprint so them having multiple places in multiple countries makes sense. I guess I wouldn't equate Slush Puppie with being that big of a brand to have multiple naming rights internationally. Just a little surprised is all.

leafs4life94 · 2024-11-01T12:03:55-0400

Kingpin794 said:
Well TD Bank I'd assume is much larger than Slush Puppie/has a larger footprint so them having multiple places in multiple countries makes sense. I guess I wouldn't equate Slush Puppie with being that big of a brand to have multiple naming rights internationally. Just a little surprised is all.

My guess is that their brand is somewhat closely tied with hockey rinks as a venue so it makes sense for their marketing dollars to go towards an industry they're big in.

three dog night · 2024-11-01T12:16:21-0400

Prepare for a trap game

OMG67 · 2024-11-01T12:46:44-0400

leafs4life94 said:
My guess is that their brand is somewhat closely tied with hockey rinks as a venue so it makes sense for their marketing dollars to go towards an industry they're big in.

They are also buying their way into the arenas. They are making a marketing push toward rebranding their product. Junior rinks have a lot more kids as well.

leafs4life94 · 2024-11-01T16:43:44-0400

No Weir, no Velliaris, Lalonde in net.

Petes still have no Bryant/McCallum so Kingston should be able to handle them but if Bowen plays like he did against Niagara they'll need to be ready.

I've gotta wonder that their plan is with Weir. I'm not convinced he's an OHLer but having him sit 7 of 8 over the last 3.5 weeks helps no one.

U16
2024	#	Player	Current Team	GP	G/GAA	A/SV	TP/SO	PIM/W-L-T
1	#8	Caleb Malhotra (F)	Chilliwack - BCHL	13	1	6	7	8
2	#26	Nolan Buttar (F)	Kingston - OHL	13	0	1	1	2
2	#37	Gavin Betts (G)	Pickering - OJHL	7	3.01	0.916	0	3-3-1
4	#79	Tanner Nettleton (D)	Windy City - 16U AAA	19	6	7	13	32
5	#87	Camden McCuaig (F)	Cornwall - CCHL	10	4	2	6	8
6	#103	Adam Kelly (F)	Kingston - OHL	12	0	0	0	0
7	#130	Lincoln Baker (D)	Waterloo - U18 Alliance	8	1	1	2	8
9	#170	Kayden Oliver (F)	Kitchener-Waterloo - GOJHL	15	3	5	8	18
10	#190	Gabriel Schmidt (D)	Markham - U18 OMHA	5	1	2	3	2
11	#208	Rhys Huinink (D)	Ajax/Pickering - U18 OMHA	5	0	5	5	6
12	#230	Drake Sled (F)	Upper Canada - U18 HEO	5	2	5	7	0
			Athens - EOJHL	1	0	0	0	0
13	#250	Josh Levy (D)	East Coast - 16U AAA	20	1	10	11	0
14	#270	Jalen Carter (F)	Ajax/Pickering U18 OMHA	4	0	3	3	0
14	#281	Nathan Kutansky (D)	Chicago - 16U AAA	-	-	-	-	-
15	#298	Graham Gee (G)	Timmins - NOJHL	4	1.51	0.923	0	3-1-0

2023	#	Player	Current Team	GP	G/GAA	A/SV	TP/SO	PIM/W-L-T
1	#4	Tyler Hopkins (F)	Kingston - OHL	13	6	6	12	0
2	#42	Ethan Weir (F)	Kingston - OHL	6	0	0	0	0
3	#45	Xander Velliaris (D)	Kingston - OHL	8	0	1	1	9
4	#78	Lukas Moore (D)	Kingston - OHL	5	0	0	0	0
5	#86	Kieren Dervin (F)	St. Andrews - U18 AAA	16	12	13	25	18
6	#106	Nolan Turnbull (D)	Rockland - CCHL	13	2	12	14	6
6	#118	Seth Goble (F)	---	-	-	-	-	-
7	#126	Noah Paddock (G)	Ottawa - CCHL	5	4.03	0.883	0	0-4-0
8	#146	Kevin Perreault (D)	Minot - NAHL	9	0	0	0	0
9	#166	Matthew Manza (F)	Chilliwack - BCHL	-	-	-	-	-
10	#186	Gavin Puhl (F)	London - U18 Alliance	8	0	5	5	2
11	#206	Andre Mondoux (D)	Pickering - OJHL	17	0	4	4	15
12	#226	Griffen Boyle (F)	Stouffville - OJHL	19	2	4	6	6
13	#246	Reece Herman (G)	Cobourg - OJHL	7	3.5	0.860	0	2-3-2
15	#286	Cole Ellis (D)	Wellington - OJHL	14	1	4	5	15

U18
2024	#	Player	Current Team	GP	G/GAA	A/SV	TP/SO	PIM/W-L-T
1	#8	Max Shewfelt (F)	Carleton Place - CCHL	5	1	0	1	0
2	#28	Darcy Murphy (G)	Arnprior - EOJHL	6	3.58	0.914	0	3-3-0
3	#46	John Adlys (D)	St. Thomas - GOJHL	12	2	1	3	6

2023	#	Player	Current Team	GP	G/GAA	A/SV	TP/SO	PIM/W-L-T
1	#4	Riley Clark (F)	Stouffville - OJHL	12	3	3	6	16
			Kingston - OHL	8	1	0	1	5
2	#24	Simon Buck (D)	---	-	-	-	-	-

Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part I

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