Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part I

[ScoutLife4]

I think Musty is a no-go for a lot of teams. the price and the attitude will make it hard to sell, and Sudbury is showing they really do not care what he does. To me, that is a good thing. Sudbury is winning the battle because Grier is putting the screws to the agent to get something done. My personal preference is Peterborough.

As to Mews he might be an interesting partner for either Pie or Burns. It would definitely give you a strong back end on the PP.

What would a Vaccari and Weir, plus a couple of picks, look like as a trade? I know @OMG67 is going to scream, but it might help Ottawa in the short term, as well as giving them a young RW to slot in.

I don't either of vaccari of weir hold much value.
I doubt ottawa would even entertain it.

 

[beastintheeast]

I don't either of vaccari of weir hold much value.
I doubt ottawa would even entertain it.

That's where the picks come in and Vaccari may be the solution to a puzzle

 

[OMG67]

Mews is not off the table for Kingston I know that much.
There is no interest in Musty though i'm told on the Kingston side.


He has yet to have a ppg in the OHL.
92 games 63PTs is no where close to a point per game.
He also has shown to be a liability in his own end. Not exactly what teams will be screaming for.
I think the reason he is still there is Ottawa likely wants an overpay but when the kid doesn't report next Sept that's going to be an issue.
Probably looking at something similar to the Frasca trade to Erie maybe a bit more.

He scored 61 points in 65 games as a 17 year old last year on, as @beastintheeast refers to as a “6th place team.”

Just because I don’t like the game he plays, I prefer a more well rounded D-Man at the expense of offence, doesnt’ mean that all GM’s in the OHL hav ethe same wants and needs and value players the same. We have seem countless times where high offence players are valued by certain GM’s differently and a lot of that is based on need.

One of the biggest needs for most teams is a RHD that can Q-B the Powerplay and contribute scoring. They can offset the deficiencies in commitment to defence by pairing the player with a capable defensive D-Man.

If Mews were not in a situation where his current coach defines success more based on goal prevention than goal scoring, he may not be looking for a change of scenery. Provided he lands in a place that values the attributes he brings, his value would be very high as it should for a PPG D-Man at such a young age. Had Parekh and Mews switch teams as rookies, I would hazard a guess they’d both have similar point production. Parekh less and Mews more because of the system in place. We saw the same when Mintyukov moved from Saginaw to Ottawa. He went from 1.46ppg to 1.06ppg.

If I were running a team, Mews wouldn’t be my choice. Agreed there. But, we all know the GM’s value different things. When there is no RHD pure offence D-Man on the market and Mews is the only choice and that is what that team needs, they pay the price. It is not a common commodity.

Additionally, if he is a one year rental, that team can then move him out next year and recoup most of what they paid this year. That is a factor that goes well under the radar for most people when looking at 18 year olds. Case in point for PEterborough and their acquisition of Beck followed by them selling him the following year. The net cost to rent Beck for the one year was peanuts when you consider the return the following year.

 

[OMG67]

With respect to a Kingston deal for MEws, I cannot see it happen. Ottawa would have to really like Velliaris. He’d have to be the centre-piece of the deal. I can’t see any other players being of interest and I am grasping at straws pulling out Velliaris. Therefore, it would nee dot be primarily a picks based deal and I highly doubt Boyd will look for a picks based deal. He needs bodies back. It needs to either be a good ‘08 as a single body or two good ‘07s as the primary pieces that need to return.

I think here are two potential teams out there with ‘08s where Mews would be a sold fit. Brantford (O’Donnell) and Erie (Challenger). If Boyd waits until January 1, I think hose two teams could be in play. If Sudbury stays in the mix, they could look at Mews as well, especially if they move D’Angelis to reconfigure the OAs. They are doing ok right now without Musty. They have a lot of picks/assets and stand to gain more with the Musty move. I could see them being a player in all of this if things continue to go well.

 

[Section5Petes]

I think Musty is a no-go for a lot of teams. the price and the attitude will make it hard to sell, and Sudbury is showing they really do not care what he does. To me, that is a good thing. Sudbury is winning the battle because Grier is putting the screws to the agent to get something done. My personal preference is Peterborough.

As to Mews he might be an interesting partner for either Pie or Burns. It would definitely give you a strong back end on the PP.

What would a Vaccari and Weir, plus a couple of picks, look like as a trade? I know @OMG67 is going to scream, but it might help Ottawa in the short term, as well as giving them a young RW to slot in.

Personal preference of Peterborough for what?

 

[ScoutLife4]

There is no way Oke would blow all his picks to have him for a few months in a season they have not won a single game lol.

 

[dirty12]

I was looking back and can't even really find a good comparable for what a Mews trade would bring.
It's somewhere in the middle of the Frasca and Rehkopf deal but close to the Frasca deal side. imo

In pick value 2(2,3,4) sould be the target for the ‘67s and max any team should pay. That’s double Virgilio, more than Brauti.
If so inclined, the wolves could throw away picks; so an overpayment is possible.

 

[dirty12]

He scored 61 points in 65 games as a 17 year old last year on, as @beastintheeast refers to as a “6th place team.”

Just because I don’t like the game he plays, I prefer a more well rounded D-Man at the expense of offence, doesnt’ mean that all GM’s in the OHL hav ethe same wants and needs and value players the same. We have seem countless times where high offence players are valued by certain GM’s differently and a lot of that is based on need.

One of the biggest needs for most teams is a RHD that can Q-B the Powerplay and contribute scoring. They can offset the deficiencies in commitment to defence by pairing the player with a capable defensive D-Man.

If Mews were not in a situation where his current coach defines success more based on goal prevention than goal scoring, he may not be looking for a change of scenery. Provided he lands in a place that values the attributes he brings, his value would be very high as it should for a PPG D-Man at such a young age. Had Parekh and Mews switch teams as rookies, I would hazard a guess they’d both have similar point production. Parekh less and Mews more because of the system in place. We saw the same when Mintyukov moved from Saginaw to Ottawa. He went from 1.46ppg to 1.06ppg.

If I were running a team, Mews wouldn’t be my choice. Agreed there. But, we all know the GM’s value different things. When there is no RHD pure offence D-Man on the market and Mews is the only choice and that is what that team needs, they pay the price. It is not a common commodity.

Additionally, if he is a one year rental, that team can then move him out next year and recoup most of what they paid this year. That is a factor that goes well under the radar for most people when looking at 18 year olds. Case in point for PEterborough and their acquisition of Beck followed by them selling him the following year. The net cost to rent Beck for the one year was peanuts when you consider the return the following year.

I do not disagree in principle, but Hay would be a better example than Beck. Beck was on pace for 40 goals, #1 FO%, good enough for the top defensive role on Canada WJC team.

 

[OMG67]

I do not disagree in principle, but Hay would be a better example than Beck. Beck was on pace for 40 goals, #1 FO%, good enough for the top defensive role on Canada WJC team.

You misread the post. I did not compare the value of Mews and Beck. I compared the circumstance. Both being 18 year old high end players.

When you have an 18 year old uniquely attributed player where there isn’t a comparable available on the market, the price goes up.

Hay was an 18 year old barely .5PPG Centre that was a 3rd round OHL Pick and 7th round NHL pick. Comparing Hay and Mews makes zero sense. First, there are centres available in abundance. Then factor in that Hay is more of a prototypical 3C on a contender that doesn’t play the PP vs a 7th overall pick at a PPG from the blueline on a defence first team. I fail to see any comparable with respect to value.

Assuming Mews is traded to a team that is on the contender side of the league (a top 7 team league wide), he is likely to produce at least at the same level as he did in his 17 year old season. As a 19 year old deadline selloff, the player is at least worth what you are suggesting he is worth now in pick value.

Mews value will be based on how much in need two or more teams are for a scoring D-Man when the deadline rolls around (unless a bang up deal is offered sooner). Provided there are two teams or more seriously in on Mews, that brings the ‘08 into play as a possibility. If it is only one team that is seriously interested, which I find unlikely considering teams are always looking for scoring from the back end especially from the right side, I think you are looking at the 2(2-3-4) plus a high ceiling 17 year old that is currently expendable and probably one more roster filler asset. That falls more in line with the Chase Stillman trade (Pharand + 2x2nd + 3x3rd) which would be far more realistic than Ethan Hay.

 

[dirty12]

You misread the post. I did not compare the value of Mews and Beck. I compared the circumstance. Both being 18 year old high end players.

When you have an 18 year old uniquely attributed player where there isn’t a comparable available on the market, the price goes up.

Hay was an 18 year old barely .5PPG Centre that was a 3rd round OHL Pick and 7th round NHL pick. Comparing Hay and Mews makes zero sense. First, there are centres available in abundance. Then factor in that Hay is more of a prototypical 3C on a contender that doesn’t play the PP vs a 7th overall pick at a PPG from the blueline on a defence first team. I fail to see any comparable with respect to value.

Assuming Mews is traded to a team that is on the contender side of the league (a top 7 team league wide), he is likely to produce at least at the same level as he did in his 17 year old season. As a 19 year old deadline selloff, the player is at least worth what you are suggesting he is worth now in pick value.

Mews value will be based on how much in need two or more teams are for a scoring D-Man when the deadline rolls around (unless a bang up deal is offered sooner). Provided there are two teams or more seriously in on Mews, that brings the ‘08 into play as a possibility. If it is only one team that is seriously interested, which I find unlikely considering teams are always looking for scoring from the back end especially from the right side, I think you are looking at the 2(2-3-4) plus a high ceiling 17 year old that is currently expendable and probably one more roster filler asset. That falls more in line with the Chase Stillman trade (Pharand + 2x2nd + 3x3rd) which would be far more realistic than Ethan Hay.

Idk. The Petes really, really wanted Stillman.
I think you’re putting too much emphasis on points. Unlike Hay & Stillman at the time of their trades, Mews is a one dimensional hockey player. If trading Mews to a wannabe contender, they need to believe he helps this season.

 

[OMG67]

Idk. The Petes really, really wanted Stillman.
I think you’re putting too much emphasis on points. Unlike Hay & Stillman at the time of their trades, Mews is a one dimensional hockey player. If trading Mews to a wannabe contender, they need to believe he helps this season.

There are a lot of one dimensional hockey players, even in the NHL. When that one dimension is scoring and you are a D-Man swinging from the right side, it is a rare commodity. And, it is not just points. He had 12 goals as a rookie (T-17th) and 15 as a 17 year old (9th).

There are two deficiencies in Mews game. First, gap control. HE is a converted forward so his gap control is weak. He simply didn’t grow up playing defence so it stands to reason why he tends to give players more space than he should. The second is net front coverage in tight. Again, as a converted forward, he doesn’t see the play well as a D-Man and relies a lot on his skill to set his movement. A good coach can help correct those deficiencies. Cameron isn’t the style of coach that inspires a positive response from Mews. It is what it is. Cameron is an odd character and doesn’t connect well with certain players. With the right coach, I think Mews would be able to correct those two deficiencies quickly because he has the skill to do it. I think there are GM’s out there that would feel the exact same way. Provided the GMa nd coach of the destination feel they can work with him on those two areas, AND they have. System that allows him to be the proverbial 4th forward, he would be an outstanding fit and the team woudl get what they needed out of him.

Again, I may not like his game but I respect the fact that he is a pure offensive D-Man that contributes a lot of scoring 5 on 5. I really don’t think anyone can suggest for a minute that there are no teams out there looking for elite scoring fromt he back end. London won a championship last year specifically because they had Bonk and Dickinson back there pushing the offence.

It seems there are a lot of people that are valuing Mews as an 18 year old (on Ottawa) at a level that is less than his value as a 19 year old on another team. I find it very odd. At bare minimum, his trade value next year at the deadline would be 2(2-3-4).

I think the Stillman deal is pretty accurate as a comparable. A key 17 year old or a mid-late 1st round 16 year old plus two 2nds and three 3rds. Somewhere in that neighbourhood makes sense.

 

[Section5Petes]

There is no way Oke would blow all his picks to have him for a few months in a season they have not won a single game lol.

Even with him being an '06 I don't think it works with the Petes core, unless they all take big steps forward... I also don't know if thats what the original poster meant to imply (Mews to the Petes) based off how it was worded

 

[zaluty]

The poster is implying that kids who demand trades or sit out should be traded to the worst team in the league. This year it looks like Peterborough. Next year it is another team.

 

[frontsfan67]

With respect to a Kingston deal for MEws, I cannot see it happen. Ottawa would have to really like Velliaris. He’d have to be the centre-piece of the deal. I can’t see any other players being of interest and I am grasping at straws pulling out Velliaris. Therefore, it would nee dot be primarily a picks based deal and I highly doubt Boyd will look for a picks based deal. He needs bodies back. It needs to either be a good ‘08 as a single body or two good ‘07s as the primary pieces that need to return.

I think here are two potential teams out there with ‘08s where Mews would be a sold fit. Brantford (O’Donnell) and Erie (Challenger). If Boyd waits until January 1, I think hose two teams could be in play. If Sudbury stays in the mix, they could look at Mews as well, especially if they move D’Angelis to reconfigure the OAs. They are doing ok right now without Musty. They have a lot of picks/assets and stand to gain more with the Musty move. I could see them being a player in all of this if things continue to go well.

Williamson is more promising as an OHL d man than velliaris but is a year older

 

[leafs4life94]

Lalonde in net, Kelly back in for Weir.

Oshawa has Ritchie back so they're going to need a big game from the top guys and Lalonde.

 

[frontsfan67]

Lalonde in net, Kelly back in for Weir.

Oshawa has Ritchie back so they're going to need a big game from the top guys and Lalonde.

First game back from playing with NHL bigger, faster, more skilled guys. Think Ritchie has a big game.

Sennecke and Barlow also just had their best game of the season so far as well I believe against Saginaw

Bad time to be playing Oshawa. Glad Lalonde is in net.

 

[leafs4life94]

First game back from playing with NHL bigger, faster, more skilled guys. Think Ritchie has a big game.

Sennecke and Barlow also just had their best game of the season so far as well I believe against Saginaw

Bad time to be playing Oshawa. Glad Lalonde is in net.

I think McGowan and Williamson are gonna be in for a real challenge tonight dealing with the Sennecke line assuming Burns/Pieniniemi are matched up against the Ritchie/Barlow line.