Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

[beastintheeast]

Kingston does not have a lot of rabid OHL fans. I was there at the time Villardi, Day, Jones, Pu were acquired in a span of 2-3 days; it was not a topic of discussion.
I think the largest crowd from the trade deadline to end of season was 3800. I was able to walk-up on game day and get the seat I wanted every game.
Game day prices were not cheap, but the season ticket packages were at least $100 less than Sudbury.

Queens-RMC game was over filled.

Seriously, which Frontenac ‘leader’ could play for Erie or Niagara?
You’re not suggesting any of Meidema, Soto, and Burns be traded; are you?

First, and a lot of fans said it at the time the city SCEWED UP. They listened to people who thought that everyone would want to eat at their high-priced restaurants before games and go there after games. They listened to Springer, who did not have a clue what he was doing..

They did not listen to the fans. The location of the arena sucked the day they picked it and it still sucks today.

The M Center and the racetrack were the perfect location for the new arena. The city already owned the land. there was a huge area that did not need any development. Access to the arena from different directions was better than downtown. There was no lake wind to freeze your assets off. Lots of easy access to free or easy parking.
The other advantage was that it gave you 2 arenas that could be used People enjoyed the M Center there was an atmosphere, and the size of the arena worked for the Frontenacs as they could sell out, and when they had a low crowd it did not look that bad. OH yeah, and it is easier and closer to the Queens students as is shown by the attendance at their games.

Sellouts in Kingston only happened when either a stud player was coming to town or in the old days it was a Kingston/Ottawa/ Belleville game during normal games.
The Kingston fan sellouts were usually going down the stretch if the fronts had a top-tier team and were on a drive to the cup and most of that was due to the number of seats in the M Center.

Why do you think Queens and RMC play at the M Center it has the right seating levels for them and yes it is easy when you have the calibre of teams that they have.

I actually think it would be interesting for the Fronts to play a game against Queens and or RMC. I do not think that the current teams could win.


Seriously, which Frontenac ‘leader’ could play for Erie or Niagara?
You’re not suggesting any of Meidema, Soto, and Burns be traded; are you?

It has nothing to do with which player could play for them or not and it has nothing to do with the star power of the player. Marshall was on the top line in the OHL when he got traded.

What it has to do is who is the leadership pariah in the dressing room, who is not trying and going through the motions, who is not listening to the coach. Any player can be traded. The reason is to set a tone and to get back control of the dressing room. It is to excise the injury to save the team. Why the teams I mentioned that is easy you do not send them to a contender or a good team because that is being nice.

 

[beastintheeast]

The same owner for Kingston Canadiens?

The owners of the Canadians knew what they were doing. Many of them had a foothold either as Parents or members of the minor hockey leagues. They provided the team with coaches who knew what to do and also acquired the right players.

OH Yeah, and one thing they did was SELL OUT THE M CENTER WITH EXCITING HOCKEY. I would hazard a guess that although the Cdns were not around as long as Springer has owned the team and there are more teams in the NHL the Canadians provided more stars to the NHL than Springer has.

 

[dirty12]

First, and a lot of fans said it at the time the city SCEWED UP. They listened to people who thought that everyone would want to eat at their high-priced restaurants before games and go there after games. They listened to Springer, who did not have a clue what he was doing..

They did not listen to the fans. The location of the arena sucked the day they picked it and it still sucks today.

The M Center and the racetrack were the perfect location for the new arena. The city already owned the land. there was a huge area that did not need any development. Access to the arena from different directions was better than downtown. There was no lake wind to freeze your assets off. Lots of easy access to free or easy parking.
The other advantage was that it gave you 2 arenas that could be used People enjoyed the M Center there was an atmosphere, and the size of the arena worked for the Frontenacs as they could sell out, and when they had a low crowd it did not look that bad. OH yeah, and it is easier and closer to the Queens students as is shown by the attendance at their games.

Sellouts in Kingston only happened when either a stud player was coming to town or in the old days it was a Kingston/Ottawa/ Belleville game during normal games.
The Kingston fan sellouts were usually going down the stretch if the fronts had a top-tier team and were on a drive to the cup and most of that was due to the number of seats in the M Center.

Why do you think Queens and RMC play at the M Center it has the right seating levels for them and yes it is easy when you have the calibre of teams that they have.

I actually think it would be interesting for the Fronts to play a game against Queens and or RMC. I do not think that the current teams could win.


Seriously, which Frontenac ‘leader’ could play for Erie or Niagara?
You’re not suggesting any of Meidema, Soto, and Burns be traded; are you?

It has nothing to do with which player could play for them or not and it has nothing to do with the star power of the player. Marshall was on the top line in the OHL when he got traded.

What it has to do is who is the leadership pariah in the dressing room, who is not trying and going through the motions, who is not listening to the coach. Any player can be traded. The reason is to set a tone and to get back control of the dressing room. It is to excise the injury to save the team. Why the teams I mentioned that is easy you do not send them to a contender or a good team because that is being nice.

I call BS on the parking. No where can you park on the side walk of arena entrance for free. Incurring parking fines cannot be considered free.
I could park for free in an overflow lot (end of/off of Montreal?) approx 3 min walk to entrance. Prior to leaning of that lot, I parked across the road for $5 or less.
Easy parking for what may have been Kingston’s best ever major junior team.

 

[dirty12]

The owners of the Canadians knew what they were doing. Many of them had a foothold either as Parents or members of the minor hockey leagues. They provided the team with coaches who knew what to do and also acquired the right players.

OH Yeah, and one thing they did was SELL OUT THE M CENTER WITH EXCITING HOCKEY. I would hazard a guess that although the Cdns were not around as long as Springer has owned the team and there are more teams in the NHL the Canadians provided more stars to the NHL than Springer has.

Keep up; at that time there was no IHL, ECHL, university hockey for the (OHA) to compete with for the top players. The major junior teams were affiliated farm teams

 

[beastintheeast]

I call BS on the parking. No where can you park on the side walk of arena entrance for free. Incurring parking fines cannot be considered free.
I could park for free in an overflow lot (end of/off of Montreal?) approx 3 min walk to entrance. Prior to leaning of that lot, I parked across the road for $5 or less.
Easy parking for what may have been Kingston’s best ever major junior team.

First, there was/ is free parking on all the side streets, around the M Center. There was also parking available on the grounds of the M Center, and there still would have been parking that was closer and warmer. The overflow lot is a cold walk in February and there is not that much parking. Imagine if they really had a large crowd where would people park downtown unless they are going to make the long walk? The plan was that people would take KT however a lot of their fans come from the township. Also, some of us that lived in the area used to rent our front and back yards.

 

[beastintheeast]

Keep up; at that time there was no IHL, ECHL, university hockey for the (OHA) to compete with for the top players. The major junior teams were affiliated farm teams

The Canadians were not affiliated with any NHL team

NHL affiliations ownership ended in 67

As to minor leagues who cares they are minor leagues I am talking about players that made the NHL. There was also the Central Hockey league. University hockey had nothing to do with it.

 

[Truthking]

First, there was/ is free parking on all the side streets, around the M Center. There was also parking available on the grounds of the M Center, and there still would have been parking that was closer and warmer. The overflow lot is a cold walk in February and there is not that much parking. Imagine if they really had a large crowd where would people park downtown unless they are going to make the long walk? The plan was that people would take KT however a lot of their fans come from the township. Also, some of us that lived in the area used to rent our front and back yards.

It has nothing to do with the arena, fans will fill the place if the team is good. Not sure what the guy is saying about when Vilardi came, they had big crowds down the stretch that year.
As it stands now, the tickets are way too much to watch a team that is not very good, and is going nowhere. People that have been fans since the 80’s have watched this same movie way too many times to be tricked into showing up for mediocre crap. If they ever show that they are in fact actually competitive the crowds will get bigger. And as for parking and access to the rink, I’ve been there for sellouts for concerts and sellouts for hockey, it’s never more then a few blocks of walking for a free spot, and leaving the area in traffic is not bad at all.

 

[dirty12]

It has nothing to do with the arena, fans will fill the place if the team is good. Not sure what the guy is saying about when Vilardi came, they had big crowds down the stretch that year.
As it stands now, the tickets are way too much to watch a team that is not very good, and is going nowhere. People that have been fans since the 80’s have watched this same movie way too many times to be tricked into showing up for mediocre crap. If they ever show that they are in fact actually competitive the crowds will get bigger. And as for parking and access to the rink, I’ve been there for sellouts for concerts and sellouts for hockey, it’s never more then a few blocks of walking for a free spot, and leaving the area in traffic is not bad at all.

The guy who thinks an arena should not have been built downtown might be completely unaware of entertainment building trends in North America this century.
Yeah, parking was easy even for this guy that had not been to Kingston previously.
I think I attended all but two games from 2nd week of January through round 1 of the playoffs; the largest attendance figure was ~4200 with 3800 being a large crowd with one end of the rink still essentially empty.

 

[beastintheeast]

The guy who thinks an arena should not have been built downtown might be completely unaware of entertainment building trends in North America this century.
Yeah, parking was easy even for this guy that had not been to Kingston previously.
I think I attended all but two games from 2nd week of January through round 1 of the playoffs; the largest attendance figure was ~4200 with 3800 being a large crowd with one end of the rink still essentially empty.

Dirty I have lived in Kingston most of my life. I was in attendance at games weekly at the M Center in the late 90s and early 2000. I grew up on Jenkins Street and know about parking for big events that the M Center. I lived in the township when the arena was built.

It has nothing to do with the arena, fans will fill the place if the team is good. Not sure what the guy is saying about when Vilardi came, they had big crowds down the stretch that year.
As it stands now, the tickets are way too much to watch a team that is not very good, and is going nowhere. People that have been fans since the 80’s have watched this same movie way too many times to be tricked into showing up for mediocre crap. If they ever show that they are in fact actually competitive the crowds will get bigger. And as for parking and access to the rink, I’ve been there for sellouts for concerts and sellouts for hockey, it’s never more then a few blocks of walking for a free spot, and leaving the area in traffic is not bad at all.

This is correct and for the most part, is the reason that the team is in trouble. Concerts are not so much a family thing. The price of tickets, food and then walking with young kids in the cold for a team that is EH! compared to going to the movies or going out to dinner somewhere else is going to hurt.

Part of the methodology when in Ottawa was to make a product that got the young kids wanting to come. That was the idea with going to CHEO, doing team meet and greets at malls, and having skating parties. and of Course Riley,

 

[dirty12]

Dirty I have lived in Kingston most of my life. I was in attendance at games weekly at the M Center in the late 90s and early 2000. I grew up on Jenkins Street and know about parking for big events that the M Center. I lived in the township when the arena was built.

I know nothing of M centre. It’s been proven that convention and entertainment centres have greatest economic benefit built downtown.
Pricing of entertainment, cost of living is rising faster than wages. Movies; do people still go out to see them? Take-out for two is ~$40.
I found the Leon centre to be a great place to watch hockey once adjusting to lighting and a lot of white. Parking, 3 minute or less walk, and egress is easy.

This is correct and for the most part, is the reason that the team is in trouble. Concerts are not so much a family thing. The price of tickets, food and then walking with young kids in the cold for a team that is EH! compared to going to the movies or going out to dinner somewhere else is going to hurt.

Part of the methodology when in Ottawa was to make a product that got the young kids wanting to come. That was the idea with going to CHEO, doing team meet and greets at malls, and having skating parties. and of Course Riley,

 

[frontsfan67]

Kingston does not have a lot of rabid OHL fans. I was there at the time Villardi, Day, Jones, Pu were acquired in a span of 2-3 days; it was not a topic of discussion.
I think the largest crowd from the trade deadline to end of season was 3800. I was able to walk-up on game day and get the seat I wanted every game.
Game day prices were not cheap, but the season ticket packages were at least $100 less than Sudbury.

Queens-RMC game was over filled.

Seriously, which Frontenac ‘leader’ could play for Erie or Niagara?
You’re not suggesting any of Meidema, Soto, and Burns be traded; are you?

The problem is they’re not marketed well. I said before and I’ll say it again about springer. He is one cheap bastard for the most part. They had this Justin chenier guy who was great at marketing the fronts and then Covid came around and he asked for some time off since there was no season. The next day he was fired. Then they hired for way less of his salary an inexperienced or less experienced person.

When they had exceptional player shane wright and all the buzz about going first overall they didn’t want to make it about him.

They wanted to still have the team marketed not certain players. So that’s why he wasn’t ever marketed at all. Only problem is lots of people will see the first overall projected pick regardless of if the team wins or not.

They’re there for the player and you’ll fill the stands- maybe not McDavid or bedard level but certainly way more than they have per game. They really missed out on growing the fan base with that. And then every couple of years they have a crap team and then nobody wants to see them in last place. It’s like that everywhere.

It’s all a marketing problem. Nobody’s going to want to pay over a hundred bucks for a family of four to see a last place team lose. There’s better ways of spending your money than that.

I don’t understand why they don’t lower the tickets to even just 20 instead of what they have now and give 15 dollar tickets to queens rmc and at Lawrence students. No broke student is paying 25+ bucks to see a last place junior team. They’d rather go to stages or even travel to Belleville for better product of hockey.

If they lower the prices you’ll see more people come. It still won’t be a sellout but damn it’ll be more than about the 1500 that was there today. Springer should be ashamed of himself what a greedy bugger.

 

[frontsfan67]

The problem is they’re not marketed well. I said before and I’ll say it again about springer. He is one cheap bastard for the most part. They had this Justin chenier guy who was great at marketing the fronts and then Covid came around and he asked for some time off since there was no season. The next day he was fired. Then they hired for way less of his salary an inexperienced or less experienced person.

When they had exceptional player shane wright and all the buzz about going first overall they didn’t want to make it about him.

They wanted to still have the team marketed not certain players. So that’s why he wasn’t ever marketed at all. Only problem is lots of people will see the first overall projected pick regardless of if the team wins or not.

They’re there for the player and you’ll fill the stands- maybe not McDavid or bedard level but certainly way more than they have per game. They really missed out on growing the fan base with that. And then every couple of years they have a crap team and then nobody wants to see them in last place. It’s like that everywhere.

It’s all a marketing problem. Nobody’s going to want to pay over a hundred bucks for a family of four to see a last place team lose. There’s better ways of spending your money than that.

I don’t understand why they don’t lower the tickets to even just 20 instead of what they have now and give 15 dollar tickets to queens rmc and at Lawrence students. No broke student is paying 25+ bucks to see a last place junior team. They’d rather go to stages or even travel to Belleville for better product of hockey.

If they lower the prices you’ll see more people come. It still won’t be a sellout but damn it’ll be more than about the 1500 that was there today. Springer should be ashamed of himself what a greedy bugger.

Oh and to add to that. Not sure why the arena is as big as it is. It’s a REALLY nice one. Top 5 in the ohl for sure. Problem is it is too big for the fans of kingston. It should be around the size of Sudbury (4600) that’s another thing to consider. I believe they made it as big as it is though because of concerts and other entertainment. And they do well with that stuff for sure. But the big one is the fronts of course. If they can market the team better I’m sure they could quite easily average 4000 in their 5700 person arena.

 

[frontsfan67]

Great game by the fronts today.
They looked pretty solid today and vaccari was excellent. Glad the offence finally was clicking. Breakout games for thibodeau and battaglia.

Hopefully Caputi keeps these lines going forward as they obviously worked today.

Windsor, London and Niagara for a tough road trip for the fronts. If they win all 3 they’re 5-3. If they lose all 3 they’re 2-6.

Very big and important trip here early in the season. I predict they win 2/3 losing to London. I expect salajko will start against Windsor or Niagara. Vaccari needs to play against London. If he doesn’t we are going to have a long game.

They always play bad in Windsor though so that’s something to look at even if it’s a “rebuilding year” for Windsor. believe it will be meidemas first game back at the wfcu centre.

We should beat Niagara but they got a lot better over the summer with trades and new acquisitions. Will be an interesting week.

Still no idea what happened to burns.

If anyone has insight on that and wouldn’t might sharing it I would appreciate that.

 

[zaluty]

As to the MCentre, parking was free most of the years but near the end it was only free for season ticket holders which I was. The OHIP lot provides a lot of parking next to the Leons Centre and the walk is only 2-3 minutes. I was at games at the MCentre when people were sitting in the aisles and 2 deep in the standing room areas. I have also been there when parents and the billets were the only one's in the building. I also hoped the new rink would be built there but there is nothing wrong where it is now. I think cost is a driving factor along with how the team is doing. Take this weekend, a game Friday and a game Sunday. For a family of four it is probably is well over $200 when you add in ticket prices and concession prices.

 

[frontsfan67]

As to the MCentre, parking was free most of the years but near the end it was only free for season ticket holders which I was. The OHIP lot provides a lot of parking next to the Leons Centre and the walk is only 2-3 minutes. I was at games at the MCentre when people were sitting in the aisles and 2 deep in the standing room areas. I have also been there when parents and the billets were the only one's in the building. I also hoped the new rink would be built there but there is nothing wrong where it is now. I think cost is a driving factor along with how the team is doing. Take this weekend, a game Friday and a game Sunday. For a family of four it is probably is well over $200 when you add in ticket prices and concession prices.

Tickets are insane here yes. But I meant to put this on here. I went to Oshawa for their home opener- where I sat which was to the left of the penalty boxes over about a section- the tickets were $41 per. Now I know they have more fans and all but that’s insane. It’s all about supply and demand though.

 

[frontsfan67]

According to Ticketmaster. Londons tickets at the lowest price is 47. Insane.

But that’s obviously the lowest supply and biggest demand for tickets in the ohl.

Now I’ll look at mississauga

Lowest price 25 but lots priced 37. Similar to kingston.

As bad as the ticket situation is with kingston- they seem to be one of the lower prices in the ohl. Not doing any other teams as I don’t have all night but with rising inflation everything is going up. Just not affordable to take your kids out to every hockey game unless you make the big bucks. $$$

 

[Truthking]

According to Ticketmaster. Londons tickets at the lowest price is 47. Insane.

But that’s obviously the lowest supply and biggest demand for tickets in the ohl.

Now I’ll look at mississauga

Lowest price 25 but lots priced 37. Similar to kingston.

As bad as the ticket situation is with kingston- they seem to be one of the lower prices in the ohl. Not doing any other teams as I don’t have all night but with rising inflation everything is going up. Just not affordable to take your kids out to every hockey game unless you make the big bucks. $$$

Family of 4 in kingston going to a game is looking at 150$ at least for parking, tickets and concessions. And that’s on the low end, could be even more. Now how many families are going to want to spend 150-200$ every week, week after week to watch the fronts float around. It just isn’t feasible. In the last 20 years they give you very little hope, 3 out of 4 years they’re horrendous. And 1/4 they look good at times but end up under performing in the playoffs. Is it any shock they don’t draw? London draws because they’re constantly competitive and most years they have a chance to win the league.

 

[beastintheeast]

Family of 4 in kingston going to a game is looking at 150$ at least for parking, tickets and concessions. And that’s on the low end, could be even more. Now how many families are going to want to spend 150-200$ every week, week after week to watch the fronts float around. It just isn’t feasible. In the last 20 years they give you very little hope, 3 out of 4 years they’re horrendous. And 1/4 they look good at times but end up under performing in the playoffs. Is it any shock they don’t draw? London draws because they’re constantly competitive and most years they have a chance to win the league.

What size crowds do the Gaels get at the M Center

 

[Truthking]

What size crowds do the Gaels get at the M Center

Couple hundred. A few years ago they were in the finals and I think they sold out.

 

[CarriageRider]

Tickets are insane here yes. But I meant to put this on here. I went to Oshawa for their home opener- where I sat which was to the left of the penalty boxes over about a section- the tickets were $41 per. Now I know they have more fans and all but that’s insane. It’s all about supply and demand though.

What happened to the reply from GensUpdates on this ? Did he delete it ? Where he accused you of being a liar or "not doing your research" ...Takes about a minute to see $41 tickets on their website LOL.

 

[frontsfan67]

What happened to the reply from GensUpdates on this ? Did he delete it ? Where he accused you of being a liar or "not doing your research" ...Takes about a minute to see $41 tickets on their website LOL.

Honestly just went on here today so I don’t have a clue. However I’m not going to post something like that without research

 

[frontsfan67]

Family of 4 in kingston going to a game is looking at 150$ at least for parking, tickets and concessions. And that’s on the low end, could be even more. Now how many families are going to want to spend 150-200$ every week, week after week to watch the fronts float around. It just isn’t feasible. In the last 20 years they give you very little hope, 3 out of 4 years they’re horrendous. And 1/4 they look good at times but end up under performing in the playoffs. Is it any shock they don’t draw? London draws because they’re constantly competitive and most years they have a chance to win the league.

I understand the point about london however they still pay significantly more.

The people here in kingston just whine about the ticket prices not even knowing we’re on the lower half of the ohl for that. In my opinion all of the tickets everywhere is overpriced.

No way in hell does some casual want to watch a game for 25 bucks per person not even factoring in parking passes and arena food.

It’s acceptable for London to have outrageous ticket prices because they’re so popular but the fronts I believe up their prices to keep it more level with the ohl. Only problem is they don’t have anywhere near the fan base of some of the bigger teams like London, Kitchener, Windsor and Oshawa

Can’t have one at 47 per and the other at like 15 per.

 

[Truthking]

I understand the point about london however they still pay significantly more.

The people here in kingston just whine about the ticket prices not even knowing we’re on the lower half of the ohl for that. In my opinion all of the tickets everywhere is overpriced.

No way in hell does some casual want to watch a game for 25 bucks per person not even factoring in parking passes and arena food.

It’s acceptable for London to have outrageous ticket prices because they’re so popular but the fronts I believe up their prices to keep it more level with the ohl. Only problem is they don’t have anywhere near the fan base of some of the bigger teams like London, Kitchener, Windsor and Oshawa

Can’t have one at 47 per and the other at like 15 per.

That is true, although price is only one aspect, I believe kingston could let people in free of charge and still would have trouble drawing.

 

[frontsfan67]

That is true, although price is only one aspect, I believe kingston could let people in free of charge and still would have trouble drawing.

Yeah if they don’t put good product on the ice casual fans won’t watch- I agree.

However I’m sure more kids would want to go and drag their families with them. And parents would be okay with that as it is way cheaper than the nhl and it’s local so they don’t have to travel far.

 

[ottsabrefan]

Yeah if they don’t put good product on the ice casual fans won’t watch- I agree.

However I’m sure more kids would want to go and drag their families with them. And parents would be okay with that as it is way cheaper than the nhl and it’s local so they don’t have to travel far.

The 67s for most years have had free entry for kids in minor hockey (with an accompanying adult). I’m sure that couldn’t hurt for the Fronts.