Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

[frontsfan67]

This is unreal.

Get Vaccarri out of the net already? What is going on behind the scenes that they play this kid every single minute. He obviously needs a rest after that game Saturday.

6th ranked PP and we get chance early and decide to change it up? First shorthanded goal against in awhile. All downhill from there. Yes Chromiak scored his first the other night, not sure why that makes him PP quarterback. His toughest period as a Front but no one at all is going.

Too funny how Uens is the only one you constantly pick on Fronts67. Did you not see the giveaways by Chromiak and Williamson and the 20 turnovers by our fwds. Thibodeau has at least 5 himself. You know if the D get the puck to a fwd and he fumbles it, missed it or fake misses it out of fear, or brinsg it back into our own end, that's not on the D.

Now 7-0. Another PP and the same unit almost gives up another shorty. It's like Caputi is coaching again.

Those other guys constantly give up turnovers as well but people aren’t high on them that’s the difference. Seemingly everyone but me is high on uens yet uens is always giving away the puck 20 times a game and causing multiple goals. Burns is always left to defend when uens gets caught up the ice for 3-1s or 2-1s.

Also uens likes giving the other teams turnovers right in front of the net it happens atleast once a game. Giving the other teams a free shot from 10-15 feet out from the goalie in close

Chromiak is getting some ice On pp because Holmes is out

 

[frontsfan67]

Btw uens -4 this game tied for top on the team with battaglia this game. -15 on the year second to only callens who is -21.

Oddly enough callens and uens are the fronts two worst players that they have.

 

[HolyRoller]

Forwards that will make the team

Dumais, Beck, Celebrini, Geekie, Savoie

Likely to make team: cowan, yager, danielson, firkus, wood

Dog fight for last spots: ludwinski, minten, rehkopf,

Unlikely to make it based off role: barkey, vidicek, allard

I personally think it’s interesting that the only returning forward is Beck on the team. Completely new team this year assuming people don’t come back from the nhl.



Before people come at me for Rehkopf- remember he would be filling a skill role not a defensive one. So I’m that sense I could see a guy like barkey actually making the team over him for that.

If people come back from the nhl and ahl obviously this team will look different than I’m projecting but I assume they’ll pick 13 maybe 14 forwards just incase of injury. And there’s only 16 forward listed so that’s 3 cuts

"Completely new team this year assuming people don’t come back from the nhl."

Yes, that's usually the case when the WJC team is made up of 90% 19-year olds every year.

90% of the 03's on the team are not eligible this year.

 

[frontsfan67]

Yes, that's usually the case when the WJC team is made up of 90% 19-year olds every year.

90% of the 03's on the team are not eligible this year.

Doesn’t always happen where we have 1 coming back though. When was the last time Canada has had only 1 coming back?

 

[beastintheeast]

This is unreal.

Get Vaccarri out of the net already? What is going on behind the scenes that they play this kid every single minute. He obviously needs a rest after that game Saturday.

6th ranked PP and we get chance early and decide to change it up? First shorthanded goal against in awhile. All downhill from there. Yes Chromiak scored his first the other night, not sure why that makes him PP quarterback. His toughest period as a Front but no one at all is going.

Too funny how Uens is the only one you constantly pick on Fronts67. Did you not see the giveaways by Chromiak and Williamson and the 20 turnovers by our fwds. Thibodeau has at least 5 himself. You know if the D get the puck to a fwd and he fumbles it, missed it or fake misses it out of fear, or brinsg it back into our own end, that's not on the D.

Now 7-0. Another PP and the same unit almost gives up another shorty. It's like Caputi is coaching again.

I think the fronts have to be a seller.

The shine is now off of Mann and any Caputi issues are long in the mirror.

You all said that Vaccari was ready for p[rime time and he shows that he is.

Last year I questioned if Salajko was ready for the OHL and got hammered. The fact that he has played 4 games and is 1-1 says that there is something there. However, I really think he needs more ice time which he will not get in Kingston. He needs to go to a team where he is going to get the ice time to improve.
You all said that when Frasca gets back he will be a stud 5 games -4

This team seems to not be ready to compete.

I agree that Uens and Callen may be liabilities but the question then is why are they on the teams Rightnow these guys are only making one person happy Caputi because he can say see it was not me.

 

[Handcuffhockey]

Those other guys constantly give up turnovers as well but people aren’t high on them that’s the difference. Seemingly everyone but me is high on uens yet uens is always giving away the puck 20 times a game and causing multiple goals. Burns is always left to defend when uens gets caught up the ice for 3-1s or 2-1s.

Also uens likes giving the other teams turnovers right in front of the net it happens atleast once a game. Giving the other teams a free shot from 10-15 feet out from the goalie in close

Chromiak is getting some ice On pp because Holmes is out

huh?? ‘Those other guys constantly give up turnovers as well but people aren’t high on them that’s the difference’. That doesn’t really make sense. If anything I don’t th


Uen’s had a good game but to put him front and center on this is just crazy. Chromiak had a very bad start

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

Those other guys constantly give up turnovers as well but people aren’t high on them that’s the difference. Seemingly everyone but me is high on uens yet uens is always giving away the puck 20 times a game and causing multiple goals. Burns is always left to defend when uens gets caught up the ice for 3-1s or 2-1s.

Also uens likes giving the other teams turnovers right in front of the net it happens atleast once a game. Giving the other teams a free shot from 10-15 feet out from the goalie in close

Chromiak is getting some ice On pp because Holmes is out

I think most of the players, especially yesterday could be accused of way too many turnovers. I also think people aren't necessarily "high" on Uens, but I think he garners a lot of appreciation for his willingness to put his body on the line every shift, and works his ass off. While that doesn't excuse turnovers, it may explain why people maybe willing to cut him some slack. Burns is often the author of his own issues - he is talentend but often causes issues for himself on a regular basis.

 

[frontsfan67]

I think the fronts have to be a seller.

The shine is now off of Mann and any Caputi issues are long in the mirror.

You all said that Vaccari was ready for p[rime time and he shows that he is.

Last year I questioned if Salajko was ready for the OHL and got hammered. The fact that he has played 4 games and is 1-1 says that there is something there. However, I really think he needs more ice time which he will not get in Kingston. He needs to go to a team where he is going to get the ice time to improve.
You all said that when Frasca gets back he will be a stud 5 games -4

This team seems to not be ready to compete.

I agree that Uens and Callen may be liabilities but the question then is why are they on the teams Rightnow these guys are only making one person happy Caputi because he can say see it was not me.

I agree I’d like them to be sellers absolutely. Not sure how they started so good with Mann and lately they’ve been so horrible.

Frasca has been good and if you watch the games you’d know that. The whole team has been playing like crap the last 5-10 games and they’ve lost most of them. Frasca has 6 points including 4 goals and an overtime winner in the 5 games he has played. He’s been a bright spot for kingston despite kingston still continuing to struggle.

I don’t have a clue why they’re still on the team maybe because they don’t want to use up all their cards that’s the only thing I can think of.

 

[Handcuffhockey]

Was cut off. Meant to say first 3 goals in our net had Cromiak on, he had a tough return to Sudbury. Burns was also on for 4 goals. McGowan was on for at least 3. Can‘t just highlight Uens, game was practically over by the time he made any mistakes. Give kudo’s to Budnick and Williamson, both in the plus with 8 goals going against us. Callans, Heyes, Poole, Cavelin, Hopkins and McNamara, all bottom six I thought played well, and each line scored. Top two lines didn’t have a very good game.

 

[frontsfan67]

huh?? ‘Those other guys constantly give up turnovers as well but people aren’t high on them that’s the difference’. That doesn’t really make sense. If anything I don’t th


Uen’s had a good game but to put him front and center on this is just crazy. Chromiak had a very bad start

It’s not just one game its game after game uens is giving away turnovers to the opposing teams front and centre 15 feet from the goalie. That’s a uens problem. Other people have done it as well this year but uens is the only one consistently doing it. If you can’t see that you need to watch more of the team. Chromiak isn’t good for turnovers either but he usually gives it up in the neutral zone/offensive zone not 15 feet from the goalie.

I think most of the players, especially yesterday could be accused of way too many turnovers. I also think people aren't necessarily "high" on Uens, but I think he garners a lot of appreciation for his willingness to put his body on the line every shift, and works his ass off. While that doesn't excuse turnovers, it may explain why people maybe willing to cut him some slack. Burns is often the author of his own issues - he is talentend but often causes issues for himself on a regular basis.

a lot of people hustle their ass off but those aren’t the ones constantly giving heated up apple turnovers to the other team ever single game. Poole, Heyes, ludwinski, McGowan never do that shit.

I think a lot of people cut uens slack because he’s from gan but that’s not right lol if you want a winning team you pick the best players not just because they’re from the area

 

[frontsfan67]

Was cut off. Meant to say first 3 goals in our net had Cromiak on, he had a tough return to Sudbury. Burns was also on for 4 goals. McGowan was on for at least 3. Can‘t just highlight Uens, game was practically over by the time he made any mistakes. Give kudo’s to Budnick and Williamson, both in the plus with 8 goals going against us. Callans, Heyes, Poole, Cavelin, Hopkins and McNamara, all bottom six I thought played well, and each line scored. Top two lines didn’t have a very good game.

Our bottom 6 played far better than our top 6. Obviously Chromiak, McGowan and burns were on for goals as well it’s hard not to be when there’s 8 on the board. Uens was also on with them lol.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

It’s not just one game its game after game uens is giving away turnovers to the opposing teams front and centre 15 feet from the goalie. That’s a uens problem. Other people have done it as well this year but uens is the only one consistently doing it. If you can’t see that you need to watch more of the team. Chromiak isn’t good for turnovers either but he usually gives it up in the neutral zone/offensive zone not 15 feet from the goalie.

a lot of people hustle their ass off but those aren’t the ones constantly giving heated up apple turnovers to the other team ever single game. Poole, Heyes, ludwinski, McGowan never do that shit.

I think a lot of people cut uens slack because he’s from gan but that’s not right lol if you want a winning team you pick the best players not just because they’re from the area

I wasn't talking about the other guys who bust their asses - because I was responding about Uens. Isn't he from Napanee -- not that it matters.

 

[frontsfan67]

I wasn't talking about the other guys who bust their asses - because I was responding about Uens. Isn't he from Napanee -- not that it matters.

Just saying other people bust their asses too and don’t constantly turnover the puck. That’s a uens problem, something uens needs to improve. You’re right it’s napanee-even further from kingston

 

[Truthking]

I agree I’d like them to be sellers absolutely. Not sure how they started so good with Mann and lately they’ve been so horrible.

Frasca has been good and if you watch the games you’d know that. The whole team has been playing like crap the last 5-10 games and they’ve lost most of them. Frasca has 6 points including 4 goals and an overtime winner in the 5 games he has played. He’s been a bright spot for kingston despite kingston still continuing to struggle.

I don’t have a clue why they’re still on the team maybe because they don’t want to use up all their cards that’s the only thing I can think of.

I said this before the firing, doesn’t matter who the coach is, this team isn’t very good. Caputi likely wasn’t helping, but a different coach was not going to make this team into a contender. They’re the definition of a .500 club, win a few, lose a few and maybe surprise you the odd time and beat a team better than them. I’m also thinking that it may have gave the team a bit of a free pass for their lack of effort when they put all the blame on Caputi. The players should’ve taken their fair share of blame, you don’t give up that many short handed goals because of the coach. That is just lack of attention and effort.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

I said this before the firing, doesn’t matter who the coach is, this team isn’t very good. Caputi likely wasn’t helping, but a different coach was not going to make this team into a contender. They’re the definition of a .500 club, win a few, lose a few and maybe surprise you the odd time and beat a team better than them. I’m also thinking that it may have gave the team a bit of a free pass for their lack of effort when they put all the blame on Caputi. The players should’ve taken their fair share of blame, you don’t give up that many short handed goals because of the coach. That is just lack of attention and effort.

I said this before the firing, doesn’t matter who the coach is, this team isn’t very good. Caputi likely wasn’t helping, but a different coach was not going to make this team into a contender. They’re the definition of a .500 club, win a few, lose a few and maybe surprise you the odd time and beat a team better than them. I’m also thinking that it may have gave the team a bit of a free pass for their lack of effort when they put all the blame on Caputi. The players should’ve taken their fair share of blame, you don’t give up that many short handed goals because of the coach. That is just lack of attention and effort.

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken poop.

 

[leafs4life94]

At this point I don't think it's worth arguing about who made more mistakes - it should be pretty obvious that if we're arguing about who had more turnovers, there's a much bigger issue than one or two players.

I've said for a while if Vacarri was even 6' he'd have a shot to get drafted and I still think that, but his numbers are going in the tank because of the number of games he's played. He's got over 100 more minutes than the next highest goalie, and 67 more shots faced... If you don't trust Salajko, use Downey (if they still have him? still confused with that emergency loan situation) and let Salajko play some Jr. A. No matter what was promised to Salajko - playing 179 minutes in the first third of the season helps no one. It doesn't give him game experience and it doesn't give Vaccari rest.

Looking forward to next year - we could potentially be looking at a full new complement of OAs (Heyes/Budnick/Poole probably don't cut it as OAs on a contender - Heyes would be the only one with a chance) and one new import (I don't see them keeping Hemstrom as an OA Import). We'll also need a new 1C, but Frasca should be able to step in with Hopkins moving up to #2.

They'll need to make decisions on a couple D - Burns (hypothetically) should be a solid number 1 if he gets the turnovers/penalties under control. McGowan as a 3rd pair physical guy, Chromiak as your 2RD and hopefully Pieniniemi comes over next year so the D doesn't looks a little more steady. There's also Velliaris in Jr. A - no idea how he's been (8P in 24 GP statswise)

I'm not sure who's gonna go, but I'd be surprised if there's not a goof chunk of turnover as Mann makes his presence felt.

 

[frontsfan67]

I said this before the firing, doesn’t matter who the coach is, this team isn’t very good. Caputi likely wasn’t helping, but a different coach was not going to make this team into a contender. They’re the definition of a .500 club, win a few, lose a few and maybe surprise you the odd time and beat a team better than them. I’m also thinking that it may have gave the team a bit of a free pass for their lack of effort when they put all the blame on Caputi. The players should’ve taken their fair share of blame, you don’t give up that many short handed goals because of the coach. That is just lack of attention and effort.

Completely agree. Also in Caputis defence I’ve said this before too lol. some of the good guys were injured or not with us yet for a few games. With Mann we have been mostly healthy

 

[frontsfan67]

At this point I don't think it's worth arguing about who made more mistakes - it should be pretty obvious that if we're arguing about who had more turnovers, there's a much bigger issue than one or two players.

I've said for a while if Vacarri was even 6' he'd have a shot to get drafted and I still think that, but his numbers are going in the tank because of the number of games he's played. He's got over 100 more minutes than the next highest goalie, and 67 more shots faced... If you don't trust Salajko, use Downey (if they still have him? still confused with that emergency loan situation) and let Salajko play some Jr. A. No matter what was promised to Salajko - playing 179 minutes in the first third of the season helps no one. It doesn't give him game experience and it doesn't give Vaccari rest.

Looking forward to next year - we could potentially be looking at a full new complement of OAs (Heyes/Budnick/Poole probably don't cut it as OAs on a contender - Heyes would be the only one with a chance) and one new import (I don't see them keeping Hemstrom as an OA Import). We'll also need a new 1C, but Frasca should be able to step in with Hopkins moving up to #2.

They'll need to make decisions on a couple D - Burns (hypothetically) should be a solid number 1 if he gets the turnovers/penalties under control. McGowan as a 3rd pair physical guy, Chromiak as your 2RD and hopefully Pieniniemi comes over next year so the D doesn't looks a little more steady. There's also Velliaris in Jr. A - no idea how he's been (8P in 24 GP statswise)

I'm not sure who's gonna go, but I'd be surprised if there's not a goof chunk of turnover as Mann makes his presence felt.

Velliaris and Williamson I’m sure will be the bottom pair for next year. But I’d be shocked if the fronts don’t draft a d man first round as they’re set up front with the forwards for a couple years. Is there any good goalies coming up this year like how ivankovic was last year? If there’s someone of that calibre that could go mid first round I’d think the fronts would take a swing at them so 1- you have a solid backup goalie and 2- a goalie for post vaccari era whenever that is

What I think happens is our 4 or 5 returning d will be burns, Chromiak, McGowan, budnick (atleast to start year) and williamson. Then maybe a first round d pick that’ll be in the mix- and I’d assume an import d in the mix. I don’t think uens has a spot on the team unless they’re going to ruin the development of Williamson and/or velliaris who have far more ohl potential and are younger than uens.

D guys for next year-

Chromiak, Burns
Mcgowan, import
Budnick, velliaris/williamson rotate

If they have uens on the team next year I don’t think anyone will take them seriously as a supposed “contender”

Or if they go for an import goalie rather than drafting a goalie first round I see the lines being some mix of

Chromiak, burns
McGowan, Velliaris/williamsom
Budnick, velliaris/williamson

Now I’m not factoring in lhd/rhd into this as I don’t know who is who but I’m sure it’ll me a mix of these guys. Uens will want more time and probably gets sent somewhere that is rebuilding and plays in their top 4

 

[frontsfan67]

Moves I want the fronts to make before deadline closes-

Bringing in OA goalie to help load with vaccari and sent salajko down to jr a to get more confidence now that he’s played a few games ohl level.

Trading ludwinski for picks and/or young player to help the load up next year

trading uens/budnick as one of not both will be on the team to start the year next year. I’d pick budnick to stay as he’s way better blocking shots and putting a body a man in front of the net. Also has more points too while playing a shutdown role

 

[frontsfan67]

pretty cool to have 2 of these guys on here. Hemstrom is extremely underrated. Frasca obviously hasn’t played many games but he’s been solid.

 

[leafs4life94]

I wonder if there's a chance someone makes an offer for Budnick this year, possibly with a conditional pick based on OA if they're looking to shore up the bottom pair.

I think if Uens plays a third pair role next year it's be okay, he's no stud back there for sure but if he plays 3rd pair minutes he'll be fine.

pretty cool to have 2 of these guys on here. Hemstrom is extremely underrated. Frasca obviously hasn’t played many games but he’s been solid.

Having Frasca up there is honestly kinda ridiculous at this stage but it's good to see Hemstrom up there. I wonder if a team takes a flier on him late in the NHL draft

 

[beastintheeast]

Moves I want the fronts to make before deadline closes-

Bringing in OA goalie to help load with vaccari and sent salajko down to jr a to get more confidence now that he’s played a few games ohl level.

Trading ludwinski for picks and/or young player to help the load up next year

trading uens/budnick as one of not both will be on the team to start the year next year. I’d pick budnick to stay as he’s way better blocking shots and putting a body a man in front of the net. Also has more points too while playing a shutdown role

Donoso is the perfect solution to the Fronts needs. He thrives on shots and playing time. He is a true starter and would help. Any trade for him though is going to require a goalie as the 67's are going to leave Nelson where he is to gain experience and confidence. I would have said Downey but I am also confused with the rental agreement. I am not sure daddy would be interested in JJ coming to ottawa to sit on the bench for part of the year and then get cut.

Trading Ludwinski at this stage is a no-brainer. The chances of him returning are slim, and you should get an attractive return. I am not sure any player you get will be any good, though, so you may want to be careful with that. How are Meidema and MacCarthy working out?

I am not sure if anyone would want Callen or Uen, but I would consider trading them for picks and then bringing up a couple of players to play and get ready for next year.

There is no chance of Pieniniemi coming to Kingston. You guys are not doing anything to develop the D and really are not a competitive team. If anything I would think he will go to WBS to play AHL get get north American experience.

I still think removing Caputi was a good thing if for no other reason than it shows what they really had and is allowing the players to show how pathetic they are. They were not playing for him so there needed to be a change.

I wouldn't be surprised to see many other players traded as I think there is going to have to be a reset to the team and remove players heistant to do what Mann wants.

 

[frontsfan67]

I wonder if there's a chance someone makes an offer for Budnick this year, possibly with a conditional pick based on OA if they're looking to shore up the bottom pair.

I think if Uens plays a third pair role next year it's be okay, he's no stud back there for sure but if he plays 3rd pair minutes he'll be fine.



Having Frasca up there is honestly kinda ridiculous at this stage but it's good to see Hemstrom up there. I wonder if a team takes a flier on him late in the NHL draft

A top 4 d man on most teams. some team that wants leadership, shot blocking and a stay at home d man who can fight if needed- guarantee someone will be calling about him. Whether the fronts accept it is a good question. He’s definitely far more valuable than a guy like uens and if they’re trying to get picks for next year it would be a move they could do

I agree about frasca lol it’s probably based off 5+ games that’s my guess but it should be 15+ atleast.

Hemstrom should get some interest for sure he’s a nice kid too. If he doesn’t play pro at the nhl/ahl level can guarantee he will over in Sweden or go to Finland for liiga

 

[frontsfan67]

Donoso is the perfect solution to the Fronts needs. He thrives on shots and playing time. He is a true starter and would help. Any trade for him though is going to require a goalie as the 67's are going to leave Nelson where he is to gain experience and confidence. I would have said Downey but I am also confused with the rental agreement. I am not sure daddy would be interested in JJ coming to ottawa to sit on the bench for part of the year and then get cut.

Trading Ludwinski at this stage is a no-brainer. The chances of him returning are slim, and you should get an attractive return. I am not sure any player you get will be any good, though, so you may want to be careful with that. How are Meidema and MacCarthy working out?

I am not sure if anyone would want Callen or Uen, but I would consider trading them for picks and then bringing up a couple of players to play and get ready for next year.

There is no chance of Pieniniemi coming to Kingston. You guys are not doing anything to develop the D and really are not a competitive team. If anything I would think he will go to WBS to play AHL get get north American experience.

I still think removing Caputi was a good thing if for no other reason than it shows what they really had and is allowing the players to show how pathetic they are. They were not playing for him so there needed to be a change.

I wouldn't be surprised to see many other players traded as I think there is going to have to be a reset to the team and remove players heistant to do what Mann wants.

I would like donoso for sure however not sure if he would go from Ottawa where he’s been playing about 30-40% of the games compared to Mackenzie to kingston where he would likely be playing the same precent behind vaccari. Very similar situation and seemingly going to a worse team (or atleast that’s how they’re performing as of late) don’t think he would be on board with that. Again I’ll say I’d love to have donoso but just the situation wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Miedema from what I’ve seen goes though hot and cold patches and it’s a little worrisome but when he’s hot he is one of the best shooters in the ohl. If he finds consistency at some point this year I could see him turning a lot of heads. And next year could become a 40-50 goal scorer. I agree about the rights to players like McCarthy though I’d rather have extra picks.

Someone I would target is 06 Sam O’Rielly from London who is really having a strong “rookie” (17 year old) season. Would fit our timeline and we would have him up until atleast 2026 where the fronts likely start to rebuild. Could trade him off and get picks and maybe a young player then back if all goes well.

Me personally for ludwinski I’d send him to London for O’Rielly there, and some combination of seconds and third round picks. If they can’t get him I’d look at luchanko on guelph as a second choice.

Yeah pieniniemi won’t be coming over but it is still possible just not very probably at all. Never say never in jr hockey but I’d give it a 1% chance he does lol.

 

[beastintheeast]

I would like donoso for sure however not sure if he would go from Ottawa where he’s been playing about 30-40% of the games compared to Mackenzie to kingston where he would likely be playing the same precent behind vaccari. Very similar situation and seemingly going to a worse team (or atleast that’s how they’re performing as of late) don’t think he would be on board with that. Again I’ll say I’d love to have donoso but just the situation wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Miedema from what I’ve seen goes though hot and cold patches and it’s a little worrisome but when he’s hot he is one of the best shooters in the ohl. If he finds consistency at some point this year I could see him turning a lot of heads. And next year could become a 40-50 goal scorer. I agree about the rights to players like McCarthy though I’d rather have extra picks.

Someone I would target is 06 Sam O’Rielly from London who is really having a strong “rookie” (17 year old) season. Would fit our timeline and we would have him up until atleast 2026 where the fronts likely start to rebuild. Could trade him off and get picks and maybe a young player then back if all goes well.

Me personally for ludwinski I’d send him to London for O’Rielly there, and some combination of seconds and third round picks. If they can’t get him I’d look at luchanko on guelph as a second choice.

Yeah pieniniemi won’t be coming over but it is still possible just not very probably at all. Never say never in jr hockey but I’d give it a 1% chance he does lol.

Vaccari has a couple of years left there would be no shame in him being back up and in charge next year with a better team in front of him and learning from the experience of Donoso.
If you are looking at it from a team perspective having Donoso in nets will make this team better.

Ludwinski is not worth O'Reilly no offence but he is not worth a first-round pick. There are other players avail like Beck that will set the stage. Once Beck is traded or a top-named layer then Ludwinski and Stoneouse value will be obvious. The bigger question is who is buying and who is selling

Ludwinski is going to be a picks player or maybe an OA