It wasn’t that long ago London was the worst team in the league. They started “recruiting” the best players and then they became a successful franchise. Keep in mind when they started Hunter had never coached before. You think it was his coaching prowess that turned that franchise around?
Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)
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frontsfan67
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He could’ve asked for a trade I’m sure just like other players in the past like Sam Dickinson, max domi to name a few. Or if he didn’t want to ask for a trade he could’ve went to the ushl or college route like Adam Fantilli
He absolutely had a choice.
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frontsfan67
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Wasn’t that long ago?
The last time the knights were below 0.500 was 2001/2002 season where they were 4 games below 0.500.
That’s over 20 years ago what are you talking about
Ok if he didn't want to go first in the league of his choice, then you are correct Dickinson wasn't projected to be 1st nor was Domi
I'm pretty sure it's a condition for being granted exceptional status that he reports wherever picks him - so for at least his rookie year, he didn't have a choice if he wanted to play as a 15 year old.
ohloutsider
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Ha. I guess I’m getting old, time flies I suppose. In any case, the point stands. London turned things around when they started buying players and it was about that time that Hunter became a great coach. They no doubt run a top flight organization, but if it was all about coaching then north bay would be right up there with them. Butler in my opinion is one of the best that ever did it.
frontsfan67
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could’ve asked for a trade probably or asked the following season. He only asked last year because fronts were gonna be ass and he wanted to win a championship not to mention Kingston gets assets for trading him
beastintheeast
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Kingston has had drafted more top-ten draft picks than almost any other team. They have had the players.
Coaches make a huge difference. If not fRONTSFAN, MYSELF AND YOU would be coaching in the ohl or NHL.
I agree that you hae to have the players, BUT you also have to have the ability to coach and develop the talent. to establish systems that work, a mindset of the team as well as be ble to make the necessary changes and hold people accountable.
Why do businesses have bosses? the employees know what they are supposed to do so then you really do not need anyone in charge.
In 27 years in the military, I can tell you that even when I had the best people I still had to manage my staff and resources. I had to ensure that everyone was getting the proper training. That everyone was developing their skills for the next level or task. I had to make decisions s about who was stronger in what area and ensure that they worked there and if they were not ensure that they worked in an area that was suited.
Sometimes I would have to work with an individual to raise their ability and develop them to the levels they should attain. Sometimes I had to admit that the person was not a fit for any position and either move them to another section or release them.
It is the same for a hockey coach,
They have to be able to assess their talent.
Based on the talent establish a system.
Try the system and if it does not work make adjustments either in the system or in the people involved.
I have to look at players who are not working in the system establish why and make changes either in moving them to another duty or putting them on the sidelines and limiting their interaction in the system
Look at the good coaches that Kingston hs had Hulton, Cassidy, McFarland, Agnew. Then look at the OHL coaches that have been and gone, Tourigny, DeBoer, Kilrea, Templeton and Martin, Now look at the teams that are almost always competitive year in and year out. Ottawa, London, Kitchener, Peterborough, Windsor.
They all have one thing in common. Coaches with a system that worked and then drafted the players for that system and developed them into that role.
You got Shane because the Fronts were so pathetic the year before that they got the first overall pick and as a special player, he had to sign his choice away.
beastintheeast
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apples and oranges. Dickinson and Domi were not special players. As to the USHL they don not play 15-year-olds. However, in hindsight with the covid crap he might have been better off going the US Hockey or European route.
beastintheeast
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So you are saying that Ottawa bought players? That the top team in the league buys players. You better be careful or let mr Branch know what prof you have.
Parents that have kids trying to get into the OHL want to go to organizations that re able to provide the best system for their players, that will have the staff to develop and look after their kids. North Bay is getting so good kids but it is out of the way and also has that problem that that they are not a bottom early drat team.
Making or playing in Ottawa and London has a lot to do with the respect that the organization has for the NHL teams and the standards that they present. They know that when they draft a player he is going to have had all the training that he is able to make the jump to the NHL as top pick.
Hunter Killer, Cameron and Tourigny all have a reputation with the NHL scouts for providing great players not only on the ice but off the ice as well.
That is why their players get invited to NHL rookie camps and in some cases signed by NHL teams.
Cooper and Caputi are the men in charge of this team and therefore responsible for success or lack of success. The power play system was a joke last year and they continue to run it this year. You need to run a system suited to the players you have...not who you wish they are. Caputi's constant excuses of not executing and that it's being worked on...is growing old. His behavior behind the bench is better suited for peewee hockey players....at this stage a player doesn't need the constant hollering. And the too many men penalties...lol...poor poor coaching! As for Cooper...we have a overage player who is -9 and 1 assist. Send him home and if no other overages available then give a 17 year-old more ice..your wasting a spot keeping Callens. I've said it before..it all comes down to money. I believe in giving chances to proof yourself but on this team the chances are running out...
Wonder if things would be different if we got Memorial Cup? I guess leading the league in short handed goals against and too many men penalties would have made great TV for TSN.
Wonder if things would be different if we got Memorial Cup? I guess leading the league in short handed goals against and too many men penalties would have made great TV for TSN.
You don’t think that London is giving anything to the kids that tell the other teams they’re not reporting and magically end up in London? Lol.
I agree it’s to the players benefit to play for London with all the success and exposure they get, but it’s to the teams benefit to get these players. And all this talk about what coaches do, how do you explain how guys can go from being coach of the year to fired in a couple years? They forget how to coach? Or did they end up with a shitty lineup?
Jimmy Hilton and Cassidy got fired in kingston for not producing, they move on and all of a sudden they’re great coaches.
They turned around because the Tarrys eventually sold the team. They remind me of the Springers. But, they also got better coaches in there and picked up the high draft picks from losing.
As for the Fronts, how many more top 5 picks does this team need in their lineup?! Now what they need is good coaching to develop said talent and good ownership to allow payment of these coaches and stay the hell out of the way.
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Cassidy brought a rebuilding team to the playoffs with a .500 record, then was fired the next year after a slow start if I’m not mistaken.
Hulton also did well with the Fronts and was unexpectedly (IMO) fired.
Firing both of these coaches was another example of poor management and ownership.
frontsfan67
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I agree they need to change the powerplay they’ve had the same system since they were very top heavy in 2021-2022 (but same guys too running the team) and they need to get rid of callens 100% he got way worse over the summer and honestly is one of the worst OA’s I remember the fronts having in recent memory. Drop him 100% and play a guy like cavallin more even on the wing if you have to or pick up another OA while some teams may be looking to deal them.
Coaching can make all the difference to a teams success. The Peterborough Petes are an example of that. They were the model OHL franchise from 1984 until 1993. In those nine years they finished 1st in the league three times, 1st in the Leyden Division six times, top three eight out of nine seasons. In the playoffs they won two OHL Championships, four Leyden Division Championships and appeared in the final four, eight out of nine years. The reason for their consistency was good drafting and the coaching of Dick Todd.
After Dick left in 1993 the Petes had little success other than winning the OHL Championship in 1996 with Dave McQueen as their coach they never finished in 1st place in the league, conference or their division. In fact they only finished in top three in their division twice in the next five seasons and when they went to conferences Peterborough finished in the top four once in six seasons. In the playoffs outside their league championship year they won a grand total of two playoff series in the other ten years. They had multiple coaches in those years.
Dick returned for two season and the Petes finished 1st in their division both seasons and the 1st in the Eastern Conference in 2005-2006. They won six playoff series in that time period, went to the final four both years and won the OHL Championship in 2006.
After Dick retired in 2006 the team in the next seven seasons never finished above .500 and missed the playoffs four out of seven years. They won one playoff game in the three years they made the playoffs. Jody Hull came in as coach part way through the 2012-2013 and the team improved finishing above .500 three out of five years and winning three playoff series and going to the conference final in 2017.
Rob Wilson has returned the team to being one of the league’s top teams. Under him the Petes have had a contending team two out of the four years he has been the Petes head coach and winning an OHL Championship last season and has the team once again in the thick of things. He is the best coach the Petes have had since Dick Todd.
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There might be a case that some of those top 5 picks shouldn’t have been picked that high.
beastintheeast
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Cassidy got fired because he upset the players and tried to coach with discipline. The team was screwing around, and Hughes did not want to play Cassidy's system or listen. Cassidy suspended him, and because Springer and Mav were players and against a disciplined team, They said Hughes had to play, taking away any power that Cassidy had. If anyone remembers the parting words of that great future NHL star Justin Walingford Hughsie we got rid of him for you. The funy thing is one of the players that fought the system or Cassidy really did anything in the NHL or after except Emmerton who was not part of the gang.
Hulton got let go because his contract was up and Mav decided that he could get an ex-NHL coach so he let Hulton go. There was also of course the fact that neither of these guys coached the Mavety system which was strongly involved in the players ' party.
That is because Todd set up the Petes system Hull and Wilson just picked it up and used it. It is the same system every year when they make the playoffs.
Play tough in both ends use the boards to keep the net clear. The first 2 games of a series are not usually important to Pete's score it is more about wearing your opponent down and getting him thinking. Again coaching,
Kingston, with all its early draft picks, has had the players. The problem has been that they don't develop them.
It is true former Petes who played for Dick Todd have had more success in the playoffs than those who either played for other OHL teams or never played in the league. It is partially the systems but also having a coach who have experienced the winning traditions of the Petes. Rob Wilson had the unique experience of playing in Sudbury we’re losing was the norm and then coming to class of the league in Peterborough and experienced in his one year as a Pete how a winning franchise operates and what it takes to win a championship.
Dick learned from Roger Neilson and Gary Green and used that knowledge when he was coach to make the Petes the class of the league they were in the mid 1980s to early 1990s. Dave McQueen had some success in the playoffs in 1995 and in the championship run in 1996. In the years after Todd (both times) and MacQueen left the winning tradition was not passed on. Brian Drumm won a playoff series but Jeff Twohey (as coach), Rick Allain, Vince Mallette, Ken McRae and Mike Pelino never won a series. Fortunately first Jody and now Rob have brought it back.
The players have bought in to the winning tradition, in fact Tucker Robertson and Brennan Othmann asked to participate in the Petes training camp this year to get ready for their NHL training camps so they could pass the winning tradition onto to the new players coming in.
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I could see that maybe for Soto, but Ludwinski, Miedema and Hopkins all went around where they were expected to go in the top 5.
The team has a total of 6 1st rounders on offence. There is no shortage of talent. Coaching and development on the other hand…
I’m not saying they were not projected to be a top 5 pick. I’m saying that perhaps they should not have been picked that high.
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