Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[OMG67]

Works out anyways as those guys wanted out. Mann wants players there that will play for him.

Not to compare Hopkins to Tomasino however I believe tomasino refused a trade to Kingston and instead Kingston had to settle for Billy Constantinou and Ian Martin as part of the Jason Robertson trade.

The ice dogs still had one hell of a team that year without trading their future which you have mentioned on here.

How did the porter martone trade work out for sarnia?

The whole east was super tight last year. Ottawa who the fronts finished below last year only managed to win 1 out of 8 games. The difference between 1st and 6th was 9 points. Smaller of a gap then 6th placed Ottawa and 7th placed Kingston(10 points)

The west had 3 teams that had 6 or more points more than Oshawa the east’s first placed team.

You have stated emphatically that you would consider it a win if you won two rounds and went to the Conference Final. So, you should use Sarnia as your measuring stick. They achieved your goal.


The other side of that Martone deal was Mississauga. How does Mississauga look this year with Martone? Maybe if Kingston were willing to do what is necessary, they’d have gotten pieces last year for Ludwinski that could be valuable to help win now.

Not in the regular season that’s for sure. End of the day the 0.544 team won the championship and lots of shit happens here in junior hockey you can’t count out Kingston just because it kingston lol. Windsor got swept by the 8th seed rangers, the powerhouse 67s lost in the second round to a team that had 33 POINTS less than them!

OK. trade everything not nailed down. See what happens. But, don’t come on here bitching about only winning one round in the playoffs and not having any assets to trade at the deadline. AND, don’t bitch the next two years when you are out of the playoffs suggesting that they should not have gone head first into a tire fire.

 

[frontsfan67]

You have stated emphatically that you would consider it a win if you won two rounds and went to the Conference Final. So, you should use Sarnia as your measuring stick. They achieved your goal.

Did they get written off in August too?

The other side of that Martone deal was Mississauga. How does Mississauga look this year with Martone? Maybe if Kingston were willing to do what is necessary, they’d have gotten pieces last year for Ludwinski that could be valuable to help win now.

Hindsight 20/20. As you say. If my grandma had wheels, she would be a bike!

OK. trade everything not nailed down. See what happens. But, don’t come on here bitching about only winning one round in the playoffs and not having any assets to trade at the deadline. AND, don’t bitch the next two years when you are out of the playoffs suggesting that they should not have gone head first into a tire fire.

The only one bitching here man is you. I applaud the moves they’ve made here so far. Obviously they should’ve traded ludwinski and should’ve drafted someone else other then malholtra but hindsight 20/20

 

[dirty12]

Dude, the Petes traded everything not nailed down. They sacrificed the next three seasons. There is a big difference. Plus, EVERYONE had the Petes as the pre-season division winner INCLUDING ME! They were far better than their record. It happens.

The question is, “Are the Fronts right now comparable to the Petes going into the 2022-23 season?” Yes/No? Do they have even remotely as good of the top end pieces the Petes had….AT EVERY POSITION? Goaltending? Vaccari or Simpson? Defence? McCoy, Mayer, Smith, and Spearing vs McGowan, Burns, Uens and Williamson. Forward? Maybe the forward group is somewhat close.

It is time to be real. The Fronts need more than they have the assets to acquire. I can see them add Wakely and a solid D-Man. Anything else of solid value requires Hopkins gone.

In a down season like last season where the Conference is relatively open, I would agree that Kingston has a fair shot. This season? Why not be at least a little cautious and see if there is a landscape that makes sense for the Fronts to mortgage their future. Pick your spots.



Which is why the build up for this season needed to be last season starting with trading Ludwinski….

The ‘04 born are not exactly pushing other birth years out of the AHL. Ludwinski probably had/has as much chance of returning as Roobroek.
If we all have to be honest; were the ‘67s better than Kingston a year ago?
At this time Hopkins needs to be as gone as Senecke, Villeneuve, Procyszyn, …the year before.

 

[PuckLucker]

Prove you have a strong team with demonstrated performance on the ice before you throw away assets.

For the record, here is Ottawa’s current draft picks:

2025	NIA 2nd	OS 3rd	PBO 4th NIA 4th	KGN 5th
2026	---	---	---	5th
2027	LDN 2nd	---	4th	---
2028	2nd	3rd	4th	5th

Ottawa has not thrown their future away. They have some blank spots that will get filled in with some OA trades.

We can have the discussion about Ottawa not doing enough in 2023. I would agree. Mews for Wright would have worked better for Kingston than Miedema and clearly Wright added to that Ottawa team would have made a it difference.

Any team that wants to win needs to do three things:
1> Build trade capital
2> Be willing to trade that trade capital
3> Be a really good team with a lot of experienced players

I would argue that Kingston had not built the trade capital. They have now by trading Frasca and Thibodeau but they now have to replace those players production so is that draft capital built by trading those guys put them in a better position?

Weir and Hopkins will need to go. Not willing to trade them? Too bad. They gotta go. You will need the more experienced and higher performing player than Hopkins. So, are they willing to make the difficult trades? Ottawa isn’t. They lost twice because they didn’t. Learn from that.

Are the Fronts a really good team? Be honest. Underachieved last year. Barely over .500. Go out with your current roster and prove you are a good team that SHOULD be added to. I think they are a solid team and could win the division but let’s be real. Peterborough is bad. Ottawa is likely selling or should. Brantford is more likely to make moves to be good next year. Oshawa is likely to graduate too many players but if Ritchie returns, they will likely do what I am suggesting Kingston do. Ice their team. Perform. Prove they have the right core pieces. Then add at the deadline.

I don’t think Kingston has demonstrated capable to the point where they are obvious contenders enough o gobble everything up in the pre-season and expend all or most assets by the first puck drop of the regular season.

This Poster gets it and touches on a lot of the key points that I agree with.
If Brampton is the measuring stick - the Fronts lost all 4 games to the Steelheads last season, being outscored or outsaved 18-7.

Underachieving comes up a lot but nobody wants to talk about why. Is it truly on the players, or is it a bigger issue in K-Town?
- Casual/Hobby ownership with a frugal budget?
- Current GM with 15 years experience as a goalie coach and learning the GM ropes as he goes?
- Experienced AHL coach that might still need time to adjust to the OHL game?

Hockey is a simple game, beat your opponent by 1 goal or more. So the staff have to either squeeze out more offense or tighten up the goals allowed.
What's going to be easier to accomplish this season with the current players in place?
If success is there, add players and go for it but you can't be .500 in January.

This team should not have finished in 7th place last year with the roster they had.

 

[OMG67]

Did they get written off in August too?

Hindsight 20/20. As you say. If my grandma had wheels, she would be a bike!

The only one bitching here man is you. I applaud the moves they’ve made here so far. Obviously they should’ve traded ludwinski and should’ve drafted someone else other then malholtra but hindsight 20/20

Hindsight isn’t 20/20. You and I both suggested trading Ludwinski at the deadline was a necessity. There is no revisionist hindsight. If you are planning on being a contender, you make moves the two previous seasons in preparation…. Kingston did not do that. They followed it up with a risky draft pick knowing they’d likely need the 1st rounder as trade bait so it really didn’t matter who they drafted.

They have not set themselves up for a run in the manner they needed to. They are handcuffed and trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Even if they throw the kitchen sink at this season, I am not sure it will be enough to match Brampton’s roster.

I get what you are saying about the Petes but you are willfully ignoring that they were generally regarded int he pre-season as the leagues top team or at minimum the top team in the Conference. Ottawa was projected to be in the bottom half. Ottawa overachieved and the Petes underachieved.

What you are suggesting is if Kingston finishes 25 points back of Brampton, they still have a chance because the Petes won in the same situation. However, no one and I mean no one, is picking Kingston as the top team in the Eastern Conference. So, that gap isn’t likely a result of Kingston underachieving and Brampton overachieving.

You cannot use Ottawa as a comparable because they haven’t made a sacrificial trade. They traded excess draft picks only. Even after all those draft pick trades for Mintyukov, Morrison, Kressler, Mayer, and Maillet, they are short one 2nd, two 3rds, a 4th, and a 5th from having a full draft cabinet. They have all their top 3-4 picks in each of the last 5 drafts with the exception of their two defects. So, all the buyer moves they’ve made involved excess picks. They haven’t sacrificed anything. THAT is why they haven’t won. It would be a different story had they made a sacrifice and not won. Yet, they still have had sustained success. We can discuss them falling short because they weren’t fully committed and we’d agree on that.

 

[dirty12]

The ‘04 born are not exactly pushing other birth years out of the AHL. Ludwinski probably had/has as much chance of returning as Roobroek.
At this time Hopkins needs to be as gone as Senecke, Villeneuve, Procyszyn, …the year before.

Hindsight isn’t 20/20. You and I both suggested trading Ludwinski at the deadline was a necessity. There is no revisionist hindsight. If you are planning on being a contender, you make moves the two previous seasons in preparation…. Kingston did not do that. They followed it up with a risky draft pick knowing they’d likely need the 1st rounder as trade bait so it really didn’t matter who they drafted.

They have not set themselves up for a run in the manner they needed to. They are handcuffed and trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Even if they throw the kitchen sink at this season, I am not sure it will be enough to match Brampton’s roster.

I get what you are saying about the Petes but you are willfully ignoring that they were generally regarded int he pre-season as the leagues top team or at minimum the top team in the Conference. Ottawa was projected to be in the bottom half. Ottawa overachieved and the Petes underachieved.

What you are suggesting is if Kingston finishes 25 points back of Brampton, they still have a chance because the Petes won in the same situation. However, no one and I mean no one, is picking Kingston as the top team in the Eastern Conference. So, that gap isn’t likely a result of Kingston underachieving and Brampton overachieving.

You cannot use Ottawa as a comparable because they haven’t made a sacrificial trade. They traded excess draft picks only. Even after all those draft pick trades for Mintyukov, Morrison, Kressler, Mayer, and Maillet, they are short one 2nd, two 3rds, a 4th, and a 5th from having a full draft cabinet. They have all their top 3-4 picks in each of the last 5 drafts with the exception of their two defects. So, all the buyer moves they’ve made involved excess picks. They haven’t sacrificed anything. THAT is why they haven’t won. It would be a different story had they made a sacrifice and not won. Yet, they still have had sustained success. We can discuss them falling short because they weren’t fully committed and we’d agree on that.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Imagine how this is going to age if Ludwinski is sent back.
You just never know what can happen.

 

[OMG67]

Imagine how this is going to age if Ludwinski is sent back.
You just never know what can happen.

If Ludwinski is sent back, it would be luck. I doubt teams operate on luck. It is like saying, “they won’t be laughing if Brampton and Barrie get decimated by injuries and Kingston is healthy. Look out of that happens!”

 

[frontsfan67]

Hindsight isn’t 20/20. You and I both suggested trading Ludwinski at the deadline was a necessity. There is no revisionist hindsight. If you are planning on being a contender, you make moves the two previous seasons in preparation…. Kingston did not do that. They followed it up with a risky draft pick knowing they’d likely need the 1st rounder as trade bait so it really didn’t matter who they drafted.

What if they made that malholtra pick strategically knowing full well he wasn’t coming and they’d get the 9th??? Overall pick in next years draft along with wherever they finish. Also next year’s draft shouldn’t have everyone and their mother going to the ushl/bchl/OJHL one would hope. Yes I agree that not trading ludwinski may be a flop but what about if they haven’t ruled out the possibly of him coming back? Cooper I believe likes playing chess. For instance about Pieniniemi when nobody thought he would come and I mentioned on here multiple times about what if they’re planning it for this season (2024/25) and not 2023/24 and oh what do you know he’s coming this year.

What I’m saying is what if ludwinski comes back? It’s a low chance but just like Josh bloom it can happen. They go balls out this year and then the following year since they don’t have malholtra theyll have 2 first round picks right after going all in with 1 being in the top 10. The last time the fronts did this it worked out pretty well. Mckeown, Bennett, Watson and diperna.

Then they can trade players next year to get picks back and restock. I would expect Battaglia to get another 16 year old FRP and maybe Hopkins too since the next year after this that the fronts will be competing likely wouldn’t be until 2026/2027 when the m cup is in the OHL and Kitchener had a 90% chance of winning that bid. Hopkins would be 20 then and I would have to assume in the AHL.

What if they went to the finals against Kitchener and got a m cup birth?

These are all things I’m sure Kory cooper and Troy Mann have talked about and are aware about. Lots of variables.

Only thing that REALLY sucks is just about McCarthy but wright wanted to go to only a few teams I believe so Kingston had to make do with the teams on his list. Again. Hindsight 20/20 looking back it had some promise but obviously it didn’t work out the best it could have.

 

[ScoutLife4]

If Ludwinski is sent back, it would be luck. I doubt teams operate on luck. It is like saying, “they won’t be laughing if Brampton and Barrie get decimated by injuries and Kingston is healthy. Look out of that happens!”

Luck? Chicago is absolutely stacked with young players fighting for a spot on Rockford right now that are not quite Ahl ready.
One of Ludwinski or Misiak is likely coming back to the O. Nothing lucky about it.

Brampton losing Martone or Rekophf would be devastating to their season.

 

[OMG67]

What if they made that malholtra pick strategically knowing full well he wasn’t coming and they’d get the 9th??? Overall pick in next years draft along with wherever they finish. Also next year’s draft shouldn’t have everyone and their mother going to the ushl/bchl/OJHL one would hope. Yes I agree that not trading ludwinski may be a flop but what about if they haven’t ruled out the possibly of him coming back? Cooper I believe likes playing chess. For instance about Pieniniemi when nobody thought he would come and I mentioned on here multiple times about what if they’re planning it for this season (2024/25) and not 2023/24 and oh what do you know he’s coming this year.

What I’m saying is what if ludwinski comes back? It’s a low chance but just like Josh bloom it can happen. They go balls out this year and then the following year since they don’t have malholtra theyll have 2 first round picks right after going all in with 1 being in the top 10. The last time the fronts did this it worked out pretty well. Mckeown, Bennett, Watson and diperna.

Then they can trade players next year to get picks back and restock. I would expect Battaglia to get another 16 year old FRP and maybe Hopkins too since the next year after this that the fronts will be competing likely wouldn’t be until 2026/2027 when the m cup is in the OHL and Kitchener had a 90% chance of winning that bid. Hopkins would be 20 then and I would have to assume in the AHL.

What if they went to the finals against Kitchener and got a m cup birth?

These are all things I’m sure Kory cooper and Troy Mann have talked about and are aware about. Lots of variables.

Only thing that REALLY sucks is just about McCarthy but wright wanted to go to only a few teams I believe so Kingston had to make do with the teams on his list. Again. Hindsight 20/20 looking back it had some promise but obviously it didn’t work out the best it could have.

If Cooper picked Malhotra knowing he wouldn’t report so he could save the pick, he isn’t committed to competing this year. It is more likely he was hoping he’d commit so he had a higher valued asset at 8 than Challenger.

And if a GM is avoiding the right “build a contender” moves by hoping a graduating player fails at graduating, I don’t know what to say.

This is a failed championship contender build. The competition is very strong and Kingston doesn’t have the assets because of mismanagement.

Kingston will still be very respectable if they add a good OA at a decent price as well as adding a mid-tier D-Man, preferably an 18 year old. They finish in the 4/5 seed and maybe win a round in the playoffs. They keep all the picks in 2027/2028 they have stockpiled. Hopkins plays as the #2 for the full season and gains solid experience. Then they move Battaglia next year and stay competitive with their solid crop of OAs. Add to the stockpile.

Mann gets a couple more seasons to build a solid infrastructure around the team. Better support and more importantly, not a one and done season followed by 2-3 shit seasons. Show prospects that they are cared for and nurtured/developed. More player report and more good players ask to be traded there when it is their time.

 

[frontsfan67]

Kingston will still be very respectable if they add a good OA at a decent price as well as adding a mid-tier D-Man, preferably an 18 year old. They finish in the 4/5 seed and maybe win a round in the playoffs. They keep all the picks in 2027/2028 they have stockpiled. Hopkins plays as the #2 for the full season and gains solid experience. Then they move Battaglia next year and stay competitive with their solid crop of OAs. Add to the stockpile.

They’re looking for the best player available not just an OA D man oddly enough which I disagree with but I don’t run the team.

While I agree in hindsight that stuff may give us a better chance in the long run building a several year plan etc similar to Kitchener and their plan of hosting the memorial cup for the 2026/2027 season. It isn’t happening. They’re pushing the chips in full this year 1000%. This isn’t a re tool year or a rebuild year, this is a go for it year. Regardless of if you, or I or anyone else likes it outside of management. That’s just the reality of it and we will have to learn to accept that.

Who knows what if they hop out to first place and are in control of first in the conference for the first month and a half will it still be a lost cause??

What if Brampton for instance trades Leenders and then Ivankovic gets hurt 2 weeks after that? Who would be their third goalie? Lots of variables it’s just time to let the kids go out and play and show what they have because it’s a long season and a lot of stuff can happen good or bad. Writing off a team in August doesn’t seem like the smartest thing to do- lots of hockey to be played and lots of moves to be made across the league up until Jan 10th.

 

[OHL4Life]

Prove you have a strong team with demonstrated performance on the ice before you throw away assets.

For the record, here is Ottawa’s current draft picks:

2025	NIA 2nd	OS 3rd	PBO 4th NIA 4th	KGN 5th
2026	---	---	---	5th
2027	LDN 2nd	---	4th	---
2028	2nd	3rd	4th	5th

Ottawa has not thrown their future away. They have some blank spots that will get filled in with some OA trades.

We can have the discussion about Ottawa not doing enough in 2023. I would agree. Mews for Wright would have worked better for Kingston than Miedema and clearly Wright added to that Ottawa team would have made a it difference.

Any team that wants to win needs to do three things:
1> Build trade capital
2> Be willing to trade that trade capital
3> Be a really good team with a lot of experienced players

I would argue that Kingston had not built the trade capital. They have now by trading Frasca and Thibodeau but they now have to replace those players production so is that draft capital built by trading those guys put them in a better position?

Weir and Hopkins will need to go. Not willing to trade them? Too bad. They gotta go. You will need the more experienced and higher performing player than Hopkins. So, are they willing to make the difficult trades? Ottawa isn’t. They lost twice because they didn’t. Learn from that.

Are the Fronts a really good team? Be honest. Underachieved last year. Barely over .500. Go out with your current roster and prove you are a good team that SHOULD be added to. I think they are a solid team and could win the division but let’s be real. Peterborough is bad. Ottawa is likely selling or should. Brantford is more likely to make moves to be good next year. Oshawa is likely to graduate too many players but if Ritchie returns, they will likely do what I am suggesting Kingston do. Ice their team. Perform. Prove they have the right core pieces. Then add at the deadline.

I don’t think Kingston has demonstrated capable to the point where they are obvious contenders enough o gobble everything up in the pre-season and expend all or most assets by the first puck drop of the regular season.

funny, Ottawa was very close to getting wright, if they added mews and took out picks it would have gotten done I bet. Ottawa never wants to trade roster players, works for them sometimes, not so much others

 

[OMG67]

funny, Ottawa was very close to getting wright, if they added mews and took out picks it would have gotten done I bet. Ottawa never wants to trade roster players, works for them sometimes, not so much others

I’d argue it has never worked. They got outspent in 2019 with Guelph basically combining teams with Owen Sound and again in 2023 with the Petes trading everything not nailed down.

Even in 202, they actually did ZERO at the deadline. The playoff was cancelled so in hindsight, that was a really good move but I think they got passed by at least the Petes, with their deadline acquisition of Thomas.

Last year was a crap shoot. I was only in favour of upgrading the OA’s. I didn’t think it would be quite enough but I didn’t anticipate Oshawa catching fire with 12 games left in the season either.

I still think Ottawa wins the Championship in 2019 if they acquired Suzuki. They had wayyyyy more assets than Guelph but they cheaped out only acquiring the two OAs (Maksimovich and Chiodo). I think their chances of winning in 2023 would have been greatly improved with Wright. They wouldn’t have had to lean on Morrison so heavily. The forward group would have been stretched out better. That was the second season they should have won a championship. That said, if they had gone after Suzuki, one could argue they wouldn’t have had the same amount of assets in 2023 so….

They’re looking for the best player available not just an OA D man oddly enough which I disagree with but I don’t run the team.

While I agree in hindsight that stuff may give us a better chance in the long run building a several year plan etc similar to Kitchener and their plan of hosting the memorial cup for the 2026/2027 season. It isn’t happening. They’re pushing the chips in full this year 1000%. This isn’t a re tool year or a rebuild year, this is a go for it year. Regardless of if you, or I or anyone else likes it outside of management. That’s just the reality of it and we will have to learn to accept that.

Who knows what if they hop out to first place and are in control of first in the conference for the first month and a half will it still be a lost cause??

What if Brampton for instance trades Leenders and then Ivankovic gets hurt 2 weeks after that? Who would be their third goalie? Lots of variables it’s just time to let the kids go out and play and show what they have because it’s a long season and a lot of stuff can happen good or bad. Writing off a team in August doesn’t seem like the smartest thing to do- lots of hockey to be played and lots of moves to be made across the league up until Jan 10th.

A lot of fortunate “what if’s” in that statement.

I will repeat what I have said for the tenth time. IF the Fronts come out in the first couple months and show as an elite team then so be it. Gamble away. My point is they haven’t proven anything to date. Investing before you are proven is a risk too reckless IMO.

 

[Petes1987]

Dude, the Petes traded everything not nailed down. They sacrificed the next three seasons. There is a big difference. Plus, EVERYONE had the Petes as the pre-season division winner INCLUDING ME! They were far better than their record. It happens.

The question is, “Are the Fronts right now comparable to the Petes going into the 2022-23 season?” Yes/No? Do they have even remotely as good of the top end pieces the Petes had….AT EVERY POSITION? Goaltending? Vaccari or Simpson? Defence? McCoy, Mayer, Smith, and Spearing vs McGowan, Burns, Uens and Williamson. Forward? Maybe the forward group is somewhat close.

It is time to be real. The Fronts need more than they have the assets to acquire. I can see them add Wakely and a solid D-Man. Anything else of solid value requires Hopkins gone.

In a down season like last season where the Conference is relatively open, I would agree that Kingston has a fair shot. This season? Why not be at least a little cautious and see if there is a landscape that makes sense for the Fronts to mortgage their future. Pick your spots.



Which is why the build up for this season needed to be last season starting with trading Ludwinski….

All the trades the Peterborough Petes that season were worth it. Winning the OHL Championship re energized the Petes fan base and yes they had to go into a rebuild but they are well positioned for the future with the moves they made in the rebuild. The Petes are not going to be bottom of the standing for three season as you suggest. It will be two at most. Last year ended up with them not making the playoffs. This season they will be improved but still likely not competitive with the top teams however next season (2025-2026) I expect they will be competitive. While they won’t likely win a championship they will likely be an above .500 team and may win a round or two. They will be a veteran team. Brayden McCallum will be entering his 19 year old season, Caden Taylor, Nico Addy, Aiden Taylor and Joseph Cadorin will all be entering their 18 year old seasons and Colin Fitzgerald and the other rookie forwards will be in their second season. On defence, Carson Cameron, Grayden Strohack, Liam Ladds and Dylan Woulds will all be entering their third season and newly acquired, Matthew Junken will be in his 4th and Blake Gowan and maybe Genc Ula will be in their second seasons. I am not certain who the goaltenders will be but I expect they will be Zack Bowen and Masen Johnston. They will be a contender again in 2026-2027.

 

[Savard18]

My whole point in this discussion is that Brampton will be too far ahead for anything Kingston doing making a meaningful dent in their success this year. I even stated CLEARLY that this wasn’t about denigrating Kingston. It is about pumping the tires of Brampton.

If Kingston finishes 3rd with 80 points and plays Barrie in Round 2 and they have 90 points and the Fronts lose, what does that accomplish? They’d go into next season with nothing other than the two 1st rounders and a two year selloff. They’d be in a similar situation to the Petes EXCEPT the Petes won a Championship, not a single round in the playoffs.

I’m curious on what the over/under is on Brampton’s attendance this year. It’s a (returning I guess) first year OHL location with a super-stacked roster. How much better are we expecting attendance to be vs Mississauga?

 

[OMG67]

I’m curious on what the over/under is on Brampton’s attendance this year. It’s a (returning I guess) first year OHL location with a super-stacked roster. How much better are we expecting attendance to be vs Mississauga?

Same’ish….. Bad. Maybe the second half with a high profile Martone and Ivankovic they could potentially draw some added people.

This move is about saving on rent while staying in the same market.

 

[Petes1987]

I’m curious on what the over/under is on Brampton’s attendance this year. It’s a (returning I guess) first year OHL location with a super-stacked roster. How much better are we expecting attendance to be vs Mississauga?

I took a quick Look at their attendance when the Battalion was there. I looked at the 2008-2009 season when they won the Bobby Orr Trophy and their last season in Brampton. Their attendance was between 2,000 and 3,500. However they had to contend with Mississauga also having an OHL team. Now with them being the only team in the region attendance might be higher.

 

[OMG67]

I took a quick Look at their attendance when the Battalion was there. I looked at the 2008-2009 season when they won the Bobby Orr Trophy and their last season in Brampton. Their attendance was between 2,000 and 3,500. However they had to contend with Mississauga also having an OHL team. Now with them being the only team in the region attendance might be higher.

Yeah but they are like 5 minutes drive away. It is not like Mississauga fans will abort and Brampton fans will crawl out of the woodwork. I think whatever they drew in Mississauga is likely what they will draw in Brampton. The only caveat is there will be a couple higher profile players that may get more local press, especially after the WJHC. That may give them a bit of a boost.

I’m pretty sure when they moved, it wasn’t for better sales. It was for a more favourable lease. This is a cost cutting measure more so than a revenue generating measure.

DD would be proud!

 

[dirty12]

If Cooper picked Malhotra knowing he wouldn’t report so he could save the pick, he isn’t committed to competing this year. It is more likely he was hoping he’d commit so he had a higher valued asset at 8 than Challenger.

Most likely, Cooper believed he could get the comp #9 pick, and picks to use this season from a team (Guelph) that Maholtra would report to.

 

[beastintheeast]

This Poster gets it and touches on a lot of the key points that I agree with.
If Brampton is the measuring stick - the Fronts lost all 4 games to the Steelheads last season, being outscored or outsaved 18-7.

Underachieving comes up a lot but nobody wants to talk about why. Is it truly on the players, or is it a bigger issue in K-Town?
- Casual/Hobby ownership with a frugal budget?
- Current GM with 15 years experience as a goalie coach and learning the GM ropes as he goes?
- Experienced AHL coach that might still need time to adjust to the OHL game?

Hockey is a simple game, beat your opponent by 1 goal or more. So the staff have to either squeeze out more offense or tighten up the goals allowed.
What's going to be easier to accomplish this season with the current players in place?
If success is there, add players and go for it but you can't be .500 in January.

This team should not have finished in 7th place last year with the roster they had.

The challenges for Kingston last year were

1. started the year under Caputi's system then had to adapt to Mann
2. not a strong defence
3. not a dependable goaltending tandem (first half of year)

This year is going to depend on

how well they can fill some of the spots on forward
Does Pienemini report and can they find an effective RHD
How Vaccari bounces back and will Nolan report, and
how effective is Mann's system

 

[PuckLucker]

The challenges for Kingston last year were

1. started the year under Caputi's system then had to adapt to Mann
2. not a strong defence
3. not a dependable goaltending tandem (first half of year)

This year is going to depend on

how well they can fill some of the spots on forward
Does Pienemini report and can they find an effective RHD
How Vaccari bounces back and will Nolan report, and
how effective is Mann's system

1. Growing pains for sure but did coach Mann's systems help the club? Great PP and improved PK for sure but 5 on 5 hockey was not a success. Every single player on this team was a negative for +/-

2. I felt like the Fronts had a strong D core last year, especially after the trade deadline with 3 NHL drafted defensemen

3. Exactly - How do you not address this? Who is the goaltending coach on this club? The GM? The Fronts made him start 59 out of 68 games.

After the trade deadline with the new players added, the club was 14 wins, 17 losses winning the last 4 games at home.
Underachieving is a polite way of saying 2023/2024 was a failure of a season in which they were likely runner up to host the Memorial Cup.

 

[beastintheeast]

1. Growing pains for sure but did coach Mann's systems help the club? Great PP and improved PK for sure but 5 on 5 hockey was not a success. Every single player on this team was a negative for +/-

I have to wonder how much failure to want to play his style had an effect on the forwards. Consider that Frasca , Thibodeau and Ludwinski are gone. I thik that every other player has been interviewed and told what to expect.

I also think you may still see players traded or let go.

2. I felt like the Fronts had a strong D core last year, especially after the trade deadline with 3 NHL drafted defensemen

Considering that they depended on Uens and Chromiak on the right side with a rookie I think last years D had a lot of development needed. I would think that they should be better this year

3. Exactly - How do you not address this? Who is the goaltending coach on this club? The GM? The Fronts made him start 59 out of 68 games.

It had nothing to do with the goaltending coach it had everything to do with the deal that Cooper made with Salajko. Caputi had no idea how to develop from a game time decision and Salajko was not ready for the OHL. They would have been better served getting an OA back up earlier or playing Downey as soon as they got him.

After the trade deadline with the new players added, the club was 14 wins, 17 losses winning the last 4 games at home.
Underachieving is a polite way of saying 2023/2024 was a failure of a season in which they were likely runner up to host the Memorial Cup.

This team on paper was never a M Cup rep team and that is why they did not get it. They finished lower than I would have expected but I think that was because players were laxy and indifferent and out of shape. Let's face it these guys had 2 years of Caputi and his lackof holding players responsible.


This years team at least on paper has a strong defence and a stronger tandem in net. The question now is what do they have for forward lines.

 

[PuckLucker]

I have to wonder how much failure to want to play his style had an effect on the forwards. Consider that Frasca , Thibodeau and Ludwinski are gone. I thik that every other player has been interviewed and told what to expect.

I also think you may still see players traded or let go.

Considering that they depended on Uens and Chromiak on the right side with a rookie I think last years D had a lot of development needed. I would think that they should be better this year


It had nothing to do with the goaltending coach it had everything to do with the deal that Cooper made with Salajko. Caputi had no idea how to develop from a game time decision and Salajko was not ready for the OHL. They would have been better served getting an OA back up earlier or playing Downey as soon as they got him.

This team on paper was never a M Cup rep team and that is why they did not get it. They finished lower than I would have expected but I think that was because players were laxy and indifferent and out of shape. Let's face it these guys had 2 years of Caputi and his lackof holding players responsible.


This years team at least on paper has a strong defence and a stronger tandem in net. The question now is what do they have for forward lines.

So are you stating that some of the teams failure is on the Coaches or GMs shoulder?? Because that is exactly where I feel the finger should be pointed.

You know why Downey wouldn't report right?
Because he as a 19 year old, wasn't playing 2nd fiddle to a 18 year old goalie.

I can assure you the Fronts under Caputi were not out of shape, they were one of the best 1st period teams in the league down the stretch in 2022-2023 but couldn't finish out games due to a lack of talent and depth. Accountability was definitely an issue though, agreed.

I disagree with the stronger on defense but hopefully they prove season ticket holders and fans wrong. The goalie situation needed to be addressed last year.

 

[OMG67]

So are you stating that some of the teams failure is on the Coaches or GMs shoulder?? Because that is exactly where I feel the finger should be pointed.

You know why Downey wouldn't report right?
Because he as a 19 year old, wasn't playing 2nd fiddle to a 18 year old goalie.

I can assure you the Fronts under Caputi were not out of shape, they were one of the best 1st period teams in the league down the stretch in 2022-2023 but couldn't finish out games due to a lack of talent and depth. Accountability was definitely an issue though, agreed.

I disagree with the stronger on defense but hopefully they prove season ticket holders and fans wrong. The goalie situation needed to be addressed last year.

I think there is a legacy of losing in Kingston. I think mindset has a lot to do with success. A Player going to a team with a legacy of winning expects to win. I know a lot of people will suggest that is a bunch of malarkey but I truly believe teams with a legacy of success end up “overachieving” while teams with a legacy of losing tend to “underachieve.”

I REALLY like Mann. I think he is a very solid coach and I think he has the attributes to turn that franchise around provided Springer allows and supports it. But, it takes time. Teams like Kingston need to have a few years of success to shake off the dirt from the previous few decades of sub-par results.

Some teams perform very well in the heavy cycle. A team like Erie comes to mind. They have done very well with the feast and famine cycle. Some other teams tend to be more successful staying consistently competitive. A team like Owen Sound comes to mind. But, just because that particular strategy works for one organization, it doesn’t mean it will wrk well for others.

I get the sense that Kingston is poised to go feast or famine mode. Famine mode only works when the Feast year is successful.