Confirmed with Link: Kings signing Cammalleri to 1/yr deal, 1m + bonuses

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

Regarding the Gaborik and Brown contracts, I don't think Dean ever said they weren't even in the same ballpark.

The poster I quoted was implying that Dean didn't hand out bad contracts and it was somehow Luc and Blake who gave Kopitar the contract even though Dean was still GM and it was still his decision to make. I disagree with that because Lombardi signed Brown and Gaborik to their contracts, which are now two of the worst contracts in the league.

 

[Sol]

He's 10th in NHL scoring over the last decade behind mostly generational players while being on a bottom offensive team. Led the playoffs in scoring twice, perennial Selke winner...

...we are ****ing spoiled. let's not forget the player he can be and that didn't magically change because he said something innocuous that can be easily twisted and misinterpreted.

Yes, let's deliberately ignore all the times he's directly said "i need to be better" and focus on out of context quotes.

There are plenty of well-documented reasons to be upset with Kopitar over last year. No need to misremember quotes and their contexts to artificially generate outrage.

You're being disengenous by implying people are talking **** about Kopitar for invalid reasons. I don't care what player it is, but if your captain is going around and actually saying things like that WHILE playing poorly then there's an issue. Because then the argument could easily made into why isn't Kopitar taking charge.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You're being disengenous by implying people are talking **** about Kopitar for invalid reasons. I don't care what player it is, but if your captain is going around and actually saying things like that WHILE playing poorly then there's an issue. Because then the argument could easily made into why isn't Kopitar taking charge.

You yourself said you didn't remember that, nor the situation.

He was very clearly referencing he doesn't need to change as a player, simply that he needs to play like he did before. Nothing more, nothing less.

The quote about all-being-good was a clear response to the whole team needing to be better.

He said plenty of times--ad nauseum, really--that he needed to improve. I'm glad that's not literally all he said, but it sounds like that's all some people want his answers to questions to be. I guess to be a 'good captain' you just have to say "i suck" when you suck as a response to every question?

 

[Herby]

Just like it was Lieweke's fault for that stupid contract given to Blake in 2006?

You can't cherry pick the good moves and blame others for the bad ones.

And as far as a "Country Club" attitude, I won't dispute there was one before under Taylor, where players just wanted to enjoy the weather and didn't care about winning. And for a while Lombardi did get rid of that attitude, but guess what it returned. It returned when Richards was brought back despite his utterly useless play in 2014 (including the playoffs) despite all the warning signs that the rumors about conditioning and drugs/alcohol were probably true. When Greene was brought back even though he had clearly lost a step but he wanted to keep the band together. It returned when Voynov was allowed to practice, it returned when no significant changes were made when the team fell on it's face, why someone like Clifford, Lewis, Martinez, Muzzin were not moved to send a message.

 

[KINGS17]

Just like it was Lieweke's fault for that stupid contract given to Blake in 2006?

You can't cherry pick the good moves and blame others for the bad ones.

And as far as a "Country Club" attitude, I won't dispute there was one before under Taylor, where players just wanted to enjoy the weather and didn't care about winning. And for a while Lombardi did get rid of that attitude, but guess what it returned. It returned when Richards was brought back despite his utterly useless play in 2014 (including the playoffs) despite all the warning signs that the rumors about conditioning and drugs/alcohol were probably true. When Greene was brought back even though he had clearly lost a step but he wanted to keep the band together. It returned when Voynov was allowed to practice, it returned when no significant changes were made when the team fell on it's face, why someone like Clifford, Lewis, Martinez, Muzzin were not moved to send a message.

All true I'm afraid. The Kopitar contract is just the cherry on top, and Dean bears much of the responsibility for the deal.

I would just like to know the level of involvement by Robitaille and Blake in the Kopitar negotiations. Rarely do you see a GM say, "Not even in the same ballpark.", then get completely bent over.

 

[Sol]

You yourself said you didn't remember that, nor the situation.

He was very clearly referencing he doesn't need to change as a player, simply that he needs to play like he did before. Nothing more, nothing less.

The quote about all-being-good was a clear response to the whole team needing to be better.

He said plenty of times--ad nauseum, really--that he needed to improve. I'm glad that's not literally all he said, but it sounds like that's all some people want his answers to questions to be. I guess to be a 'good captain' you just have to say "i suck" when you suck as a response to every question?

I didn't say that I did, but I also remember quotes from Kopitar after the firings too. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who will take the team in charge and hold himself to a higher standard. Kopitar better hope he has a real good year or else when the Kings miss, he might be gone.

 

[Sacha Baron Corbin]

All true I'm afraid. The Kopitar contract is just the cherry on top, and Dean bears much of the responsibility for the deal.

I would just like to know the level of involvement by Robitaille and Blake in the Kopitar negotiations. Rarely do you see a GM say, "Not even in the same ballpark.", then get completely bent over.

I've always seen it as a public negotiation ploy, I think most of us knew Kopitar was going to get a Kane/Toews type contract no matter how much hardball Dean wanted to play.

At the end of the day Luc and Blake probably got involved but what else were they supposed to do? They obviously had seen how far Lombardi went off the rails post-2014 and weren't going to let him make another critical mistake in losing the team's best center since Gretzky, no matter the cost. There's been a lot of revisionist history on this board after Kopi's bad season, and to be fair he does deserve some of the negativity but there would have been an uproar from the fanbase had they let him walk or traded him in 2016

 

[johnjm22]

And as far as a "Country Club" attitude, I won't dispute there was one before under Taylor, where players just wanted to enjoy the weather and didn't care about winning. And for a while Lombardi did get rid of that attitude, but guess what it returned.

I have a hard time believing the reason this franchise struggled in the Taylor years was because of a "country club" attitude. The rosters usually sucked during that time period; that was the main reason for the team's struggles.

I don't care how much of a winning attitude your team has, you're not going to win if Brad Chartrand is playing on your first line.

IMO, most professional players want to win. If they didn't, they probably wouldn't be where they are.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Well we already know the regimen under Sutter was demanding, he's gone. DL was also adamant about off-season regimen and training. He's gone.

Luc and Blake hire the good guy in Stevens, who's less demanding. K17 also pretty much said it, Luc apparently stepped in to get the Kopitar signing done at whatever cost. I know for a fact DL wouldn't give Kopitar that contract. Once he got the contract he wanted...well his play speaks for itself.

Was Sutter fired because he was demanding, or because he killed the offense? I never know anymore. Was Lombardi fired because he was adamant, or because he had too much emotional loyalty to assets? I never know anymore. Should Sutter and Lombardi have kept their jobs after the team missed the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 years? Would that not be a buddy-buddy country club atmosphere?

Kopitar was a couple months from being a UFA, and the team was not only in the playoff race, but I believe still in 1st place at the time. What was Lombardi going to do? Let him walk? Trade him while the Kings are fighting for the division?

I'm honestly surprised he wasn't shopped around this summer.

One of the bigger cap hits in the league, and coming off a career worst season. What's to shop? The time to shop Kopitar was in June of 2014. Coming off the high of the Cup, and still 2 years on a great contract. That's when he should've been traded. A year too early rather than a year too late. Nobody would've thought to trade him in June of 2014 though. That would've been crazy. As we've seen however, that would've been the time for his highest value in the last 3 years.

Wasn't it Kopitar down the stretch who said something along the lines of, "If everyone's good no one needs to be great?" I think that says it all right there.

If I have an employee working for me that was dragging their feet right after getting a raise and said that when called out, I'd fire them.

As in, if everyone does their job, than the weight of the team can be spread out. It's an accurate statement. We praised the team when they played that way on the road to 2 Cups. That's how it goes though. If you win, everything is great. Everything even sounds great. If you lose, nothing is right. Nothing you say is good enough, nothing you do is good enough, until you win, then it's all great again.

Just like it was Lieweke's fault for that stupid contract given to Blake in 2006?

You can't cherry pick the good moves and blame others for the bad ones.

And as far as a "Country Club" attitude, I won't dispute there was one before under Taylor, where players just wanted to enjoy the weather and didn't care about winning. And for a while Lombardi did get rid of that attitude, but guess what it returned. It returned when Richards was brought back despite his utterly useless play in 2014 (including the playoffs) despite all the warning signs that the rumors about conditioning and drugs/alcohol were probably true. When Greene was brought back even though he had clearly lost a step but he wanted to keep the band together. It returned when Voynov was allowed to practice, it returned when no significant changes were made when the team fell on it's face, why someone like Clifford, Lewis, Martinez, Muzzin were not moved to send a message.

When exactly was it all about the weather?

Letting Mitchell go, letting Williams go, and trading for Lucic weren't significant changes? Good or bad, they're at least significant. Stripping Brown of the C and giving it to Kopitar, again, good or bad, that's a big change.

Keeping Richards and Greene is now country club? I thought that was emotional loyalty. Those two things aren't the same. Richards was Lombardi still believing in the myth of Mike Richards as a hockey presence. Had nothing to do with the weather. That was keeping a guy that was a winner, despite not having size, top end skill, or a ton of speed. The whole reason he acquired him in the first place.

 

[kings11]

Was Sutter fired because he was demanding, or because he killed the offense? I never know anymore. Was Lombardi fired because he was adamant, or because he had too much emotional loyalty to assets? I never know anymore. Should Sutter and Lombardi have kept their jobs after the team missed the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 years? Would that not be a buddy-buddy country club atmosphere?

Kopitar was a couple months from being a UFA, and the team was not only in the playoff race, but I believe still in 1st place at the time. What was Lombardi going to do? Let him walk? Trade him while the Kings are fighting for the division?



One of the bigger cap hits in the league, and coming off a career worst season. What's to shop? The time to shop Kopitar was in June of 2014. Coming off the high of the Cup, and still 2 years on a great contract. That's when he should've been traded. A year too early rather than a year too late. Nobody would've thought to trade him in June of 2014 though. That would've been crazy. As we've seen however, that would've been the time for his highest value in the last 3 years.



As in, if everyone does their job, than the weight of the team can be spread out. It's an accurate statement. We praised the team when they played that way on the road to 2 Cups. That's how it goes though. If you win, everything is great. Everything even sounds great. If you lose, nothing is right. Nothing you say is good enough, nothing you do is good enough, until you win, then it's all great again.



When exactly was it all about the weather?

Letting Williams go and trading for Lucic weren't significant changes? Good or bad, they're at least significant. Stripping Brown of the C and giving it to Kopitar, again, good or bad, that's a big change.

Keeping Richards and Greene is now country club? I thought that was emotional loyalty. Those two things aren't the same. Richards was Lombardi still believing in the myth of Mike Richards as a hockey presence. Had nothing to do with the weather. That was keeping a guy that was a winner, despite not having size, top end skill, or a ton of speed. The whole reason he acquired him in the first place.

How dare you speak truths on the site !!! Now watch some of these guys try and justify more crap... People also want to play the hindsight game but this is reality so how about we stick to it ... let's talk about this team going forward .

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Look at what Sutter and Lombardi were saying after the 2015-16 season of adapting to today's game. Then look at how Lombardi insulted back-to-back Stanley Cup champions by calling them the flavor of the month. Then observe his World Cup US team.

Do we need further proof that these relics from the past kept thinking a slow churning style was going to lead to success? It's as if they're even ignoring what made them successful in 2012 and 2014. They actually took more risks offensively and upped their aggressiveness on the forecheck. That disappeared the last few seasons, often sending in only one forechecker and having two men back.

They reverted back to Terry Murray hockey, the style of hockey preferred by Dean Lombardi.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Give me a break, everyone was pulling their weight during the cup runs. Last year there was no energy, no urgency, and no reason for any of us to think that things would get better. They faded down the stretch, couldn't even beat a Calgary team that probably doesn't have hair on their balls yet, and were simply going through the motions. The team was lifeless and lazy. His comments are ridiculous and insulting, especially from our highest paid player and captain. No excuses, play better.

 

[Herby]

When exactly was it all about the weather?

Letting Mitchell go, letting Williams go, and trading for Lucic weren't significant changes? Good or bad, they're at least significant. Stripping Brown of the C and giving it to Kopitar, again, good or bad, that's a big change.

Keeping Richards and Greene is now country club? I thought that was emotional loyalty. Those two things aren't the same. Richards was Lombardi still believing in the myth of Mike Richards as a hockey presence. Had nothing to do with the weather. That was keeping a guy that was a winner, despite not having size, top end skill, or a ton of speed. The whole reason he acquired him in the first place.

The weather was in regards to Taylor teams, someone brought it up how certain players maybe only wanted to be here to enjoy the weather and make millions. I do agree with John that talent is always more important than culture, but having a good culture is never a bad thing, but I do think some here overrate it.

After the Kings won those cups there was zero accountability, there should have been no Mike Richards myth after the 2014 season, he was not an NHL'er that season, his offensive numbers were inflated by playing with Carter and playing on the PP, he was an embarrassment that entire season and you couple it with the past red flags in his career it was an easy decision, was there some loyalty, sure I guess but I think it was more about not holding players accountable.

 

[Herby]

@BK,

You say Sutter should have been moved but not DL?

I just don't get it based on these moves since 2014. Keeping Richards, all the rentals, the laughably bad cap management, which was almost made even worse by the Lucic 7 year offer that Dean made. I mean, could you imagine adding that contract to the ones we already have?

Lombardi had no regard whatsoever for the future of this franchise with the trades and signings he made, he was basically the guy going to a loan shark and then taking the money to a casino, he was completely out of control by the end. In fact had AEG not made a move I think it would have been fair to question them as owners. The management from 2014-17 was as bad as I've seen since I've been a fan.

 

[Quattro]

I forgot how awful this board is in the summer

 

[Reclamation Project]

1 playoff win in 3 seasons with Kopitar, Toffoli, Pearson, Carter, Doughty, Muzzin, and Quick.

 

[Herby]

I forgot how awful this board is in the summer

You say the board is awful during the season too.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Is one playoff series win and a 25 goal season from Kopitar too much to ask??????

 

[Herby]

Is one playoff series win and a 25 goal season from Kopitar too much to ask??????

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I guess some people just came out of a coma and haven't watched any Kings hockey since June 13, 2014.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

I totally get the need for Lombardi to move on after the 3 seasons he gave us post Cups. Sutter tenfold.

But I think a lot of the desire to see Lombardi stay was the interest in seeing if the guy who brought us to glory, and then ****ed it up, would be able to identify the problems he'd created and work towards getting us back there. Was he deprived of the chance? Or was he out of chances before he himself recognized it? Now it doesn't matter, he's gone and may what is dead never die.

From there its a debate if the Kings can even recover in the short term, and if it even matters who is at the helm. It all gets pretty nihilistic after that. You know you're favourite tv show is tanking.

Regarding the current roster, one bad season from certain players can be considered an aberration, mulligan, whatever. Hope springs eternal. If they frig it up again, we're irrevocably screwed.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Also, congrats and welcome back Cammy! (?)

 

[Herby]

I totally get the need for Lombardi to move on after the 3 seasons he gave us post Cups. Sutter tenfold.

But I think a lot of the desire to see Lombardi stay was the interest in seeing if the guy who brought us to glory, and then ****ed it up, would be able to identify the problems he'd created and work towards getting us back there. Was he deprived of the chance? Or was he out of chances before he himself recognized it?
.

One name showed that he didn't learn from any of his mistakes... MILAN LUCIC

The trade itself continued to show that there was little interest in accumulating young, cheap assets, which are absolutely necessary to win in this league.

And then the 7 year offer to try and keep him here showed that he still had zero clue how to handle the cap or how to handle players as they enter their 30's. It showed he learned nothing from Richards, Gaborik and Brown.

It took almost a perfect storm of bad moves to get the Kings from where they were in June 2014 to where they were in June 2017.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Give me a break, everyone was pulling their weight during the cup runs. Last year there was no energy, no urgency, and no reason for any of us to think that things would get better. They faded down the stretch, couldn't even beat a Calgary team that probably doesn't have hair on their balls yet, and were simply going through the motions. The team was lifeless and lazy. His comments are ridiculous and insulting, especially from our highest paid player and captain. No excuses, play better.

It was a bad year all around. Not too many guys had good years all the way through. Carter was good, then couldn't score. Kopitar was couldn't score, then sort of got back to it a bit. Toffoli was hurt. Gaborik was hurt. Quick was hurt. Muzzin was awful from the start of the World Cup. Doughty wasn't what the Kings needed him to be. Too many guys were below average, for who knows which reason here or there.

The weather was in regards to Taylor teams, someone brought it up how certain players maybe only wanted to be here to enjoy the weather and make millions. I do agree with John that talent is always more important than culture, but having a good culture is never a bad thing, but I do think some here overrate it.

Which players? Taylor had a few teams that were good and tried. Then of course we know how things went with Allison and Deadmarsh. After the lockout, Roenick ended up as a train wreck all around, but who else was here that didn't care?

After the Kings won those cups there was zero accountability, there should have been no Mike Richards myth after the 2014 season, he was not an NHL'er that season, his offensive numbers were inflated by playing with Carter and playing on the PP, he was an embarrassment that entire season and you couple it with the past red flags in his career it was an easy decision, was there some loyalty, sure I guess but I think it was more about not holding players accountable.

I'm more in the Lombardi was emotionally attached to the players that won for him camp. Just don't see it as an accountability thing. Maybe they're one in the same.

Ends up the worst thing to happen was that crazy run in 2014. The intangibles of it. If they went out in 4 or 5 quiet games to the Sharks, like they did in 2016, who knows what Lombardi would've done. Buy Richards out, let Greene, Gaborik, and Mitchell go. Hang onto Williams probably, but maybe would've been more likely to trade him the next season. Before the 2015 deadline, they went on that winning streak, and it was that "anything can happen with the Kings" team again. If they could've just made the playoffs that year, win or lose, I'm not sure the Lucic deal happens, as Lombardi wouldn't have had the 1st rounder in 2015 to trade.

As I've come to think, the 14-15 season will always be the biggest what if of the Lombardi era. Gaborik had a solid season. Couldn't have seen the Voynov situation coming. If he had still been there, then there's probably no Sekera at the deadline, and who knows how it would've gone instead.

Lombardi had no regard whatsoever for the future of this franchise with the trades and signings he made, he was basically the guy going to a loan shark and then taking the money to a casino, he was completely out of control by the end. In fact had AEG not made a move I think it would have been fair to question them as owners. The management from 2014-17 was as bad as I've seen since I've been a fan.

I know Lombardi liked to talk about how the Wings kept things going for a long time, but there's a reason that's rarely been done. Detroit is basically the only example since the Canadiens in their last dynasty years, which was a vastly different league. Detroit did most of their damage in a different league as well.

Lombardi had a plan, might have been on the way to losing his job before the Carter trade worked out, and then tried to keep the ride going as long as he could. Did we all think the run was over at the end of the 14-15 season? Or did most people think well, it was one bad year, with a lot of weird stuff happening? I didn't think it was completely done. They were at the top of the division until the last day in 15-16. Kopitar was back to scoring. Doughty was winning a Norris. Quick was up for the Vezina.

Why should he have cared about the future of the franchise? It's not like it's his. He was an employee that could get fired. Brown, Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick don't care about the future of the Kings either. GM's are supposed to have a bit of a long term outlook, but I think 2 Cups in 3 years changes perspective a bit. You're not in that position all the time as a GM.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

The poster I quoted was implying that Dean didn't hand out bad contracts and it was somehow Luc and Blake who gave Kopitar the contract even though Dean was still GM and it was still his decision to make. I disagree with that because Lombardi signed Brown and Gaborik to their contracts, which are now two of the worst contracts in the league.

People thought the Gaborik and Brown extensions were terrific deals given they were coming off Cup wins. NHL network was going crazy that DL signed Gaborik to such a low cap hit. Hindsight 20/20, yeah it looks terrible given the injuries he's suffered.

Brown was extended based on a fire being lit under him with trade rumors. The fact he started playing great after rumors of him being shipped off to New York, says it all. There were Shane Doan l/Claude Lemieux comparisons during those cup runs, and those guys don't grow on trees. Wouldn't be surprised to see him retire soon, he isn't the same player.