KHL Expansion part IV (Mod warning post 760)
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Was it 30th of April of 1st of April? I don't remember! It feels like they will keep it quiet until it's official
vorky
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- Jan 23, 2010
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russianhockey
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vorky
@vorkywh24
- Jan 23, 2010
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http://rsport.ru/hockey/20140403/740577002.html
NIHF agreed with VIF leaving nor league to join KHL. VIF will apply to KHL soon.
NIHF agreed with VIF leaving nor league to join KHL. VIF will apply to KHL soon.
vorky
@vorkywh24
- Jan 23, 2010
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Jussi
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Well Dynamo Riga hasn't helped Latvian hockey that much. Of course if they end up filling the team with foreign players like Medvescak and Donbass have done, does it really matter at that point anymore what country they come from?
From one of the very first articles about a Norwegian KHL team they mentioned that a lot of money would be put into junior development and the NIHF also.
What "a lot of money" means we can only speculate on. And only the future will tell.
But for a small hockey country, I do believe that joining the KHL is a very very good move. This is why I want a team from China in the KHL, even though I know there won't be any Chinese players on the team for decades. The VHL would probably be even better for China, and some Chinese could probably play there.
Because, unlike some European on this board I genuinely think that a KHL team in a country will extend/expand the interest of the sport. Especially for a small hockey country. And with a "big team" they will have funds to invest in junior development. And could attract good/better coaches and junior/senior staff.
(sorry I made this into a China post again
)
Jussi
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From one of the very first articles about a Norwegian KHL team they mentioned that a lot of money would be put into junior development and the NIHF also.
What "a lot of money" means we can only speculate on. And only the future will tell.
But for a small hockey country, I do believe that joining the KHL is a very very good move. This is why I want a team from China in the KHL, even though I know there won't be any Chinese players on the team for decades. The VHL would probably be even better for China, and some Chinese could probably play there.
Because, unlike some European on this board I genuinely think that a KHL team in a country will extend/expand the interest of the sport. Especially for a small hockey country. And with a "big team" they will have funds to invest in junior development. And could attract good/better coaches and junior/senior staff.
(sorry I made this into a China post again
If most of the funds go to player salaries and other team expenses, how will it show in junior development? Remember, money alone doesn't create/develop players. See what Sweden did after their meeting in the early 2000's.
Yes you make some good points there. But for a small country I think it's much better in many ways. For example if Valerenga uses 5% of their budget on their juniors today, and do the same when they join KHL, the money they spend on junior development will mean a lot. If they use 5% of their KHL-team money that is. They can hire better staff from Sweden or Finland and make many improvements. Or they can make things worse too, like you said, money alone doesn't create or develop good players.
And if it's true that money from KHL-Valerenga will go to NIHF, it's not in any way bad. It can be spent on all the clubs in Norway and improve hockey development. If it is not true and will only be spend on Valerenga, well, at least it will/could improve Oslo hockey.
What happened in Sweden during 2000's? I don't know this.
I think the idea that the presence of a KHL team will lead to a given country improving in hockey is greatly overplayed.
Norway over the past decade has made pretty impressive progress and has either passed or caught up to original KHL countries like Latvia, Belarus and Kazahkstan.
By the looks of things Valerenga has given a lot of young Norwegian players their first shot at playing senior level professional hockey. If the club moves to the KHL and starts filling out their roster with Norwegians already established in the NT, Swedes and NAs the pipeline that has been providing young talent their shot at playing pro hockey with the club could very well be shut off.
Norway over the past decade has made pretty impressive progress and has either passed or caught up to original KHL countries like Latvia, Belarus and Kazahkstan.
By the looks of things Valerenga has given a lot of young Norwegian players their first shot at playing senior level professional hockey. If the club moves to the KHL and starts filling out their roster with Norwegians already established in the NT, Swedes and NAs the pipeline that has been providing young talent their shot at playing pro hockey with the club could very well be shut off.
For the first bolded part, those players are being developed in other countries today, yes? Swedish junior system or Finnish. And then play for Swedish, Finnish etc. professional teams when and if they are good enough. If Norway can create a better junior development system in their own country, also, I don't see how that could affect them worse. Two choices are better than one, as people say.
And for the other bolded part, they would have their current team in the Norwegian league and a new team in KHL.
The only real difference is that Norwegians would now have the chance to play pro-hockey in their own country, they don't need to play in Sweden or Finland or some other country. Their national league will still have 10 teams, and Valerenga will still be in it and compete.
I can only see that more Norwegians could get the chance to play top-quality hockey. Players that could bloom but don't get the chance in Sweden, Switzerland etc. They could get the chance in the KHL team instead. It would be very easy to try-out a player from the Norwegian league in the KHL-team, and if he is not good enough he just continue in the Norwegian league.
Today a Norwegian player need to be as skilled or more skilled than than a Swede to get a shot in a Swedish team(or else it makes no point in acquire him), he would have much easier to make it to KHL-Valerenga, just competing with Norwegian talent. Because, of course they want to use as many Norwegians as possible. A Swedish or Swiss or Finnish team does not have this desire.
Jussi
Registered User
Well that would imply that competent junior hockey coaches grow in trees over here, which they don't.
They held their meeting after numerous bad years in junior development, put their focus on skill training rather than team play. Key was the federation educating coaches more on such matters. Finland chose to hire regional skills coaches rather do the same with all the WC profits. Sweden's method has already been proven successful, we'll see how Finland fair.
Jussi
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The one thing you have know about Norwegian players is that most of them take their biggest stages of development in Sweden.
People have to finally understand that KHL's goal is not to improve any hockey market or to help teams in other countries develop better players but its just a business product like NHL.
I honestly think KHL had no (positive) impact at all to hockey in any of the participating countries. Only MHL helped Russian junior hockey a bit but that's it.
Latvia is producing less quality players than before KHL time. Belarus is barely developing any talent at all. Kazakhstan = they have 1 players in the KHL who is actually a Kazakh. Czech and Slovakian talent either go to NA or Scandinavia. If a player is good enough to earn big money they won't join Lev or Slovan but go to NHL or teams like SKA, Ak Bars, Metallurg etc.
Medvescak? They have almost 100% imports in their lineup.
Donbass? No development of Ukrainian hockey at all. All Ukrainians on the roster either are veteran superstars or come from other youth programs.
What will VIF joining KHL mean or Jokerit joining? More roster spots go to foreigners that could have been taken by local guys.
I honestly think KHL had no (positive) impact at all to hockey in any of the participating countries. Only MHL helped Russian junior hockey a bit but that's it.
Latvia is producing less quality players than before KHL time. Belarus is barely developing any talent at all. Kazakhstan = they have 1 players in the KHL who is actually a Kazakh. Czech and Slovakian talent either go to NA or Scandinavia. If a player is good enough to earn big money they won't join Lev or Slovan but go to NHL or teams like SKA, Ak Bars, Metallurg etc.
Medvescak? They have almost 100% imports in their lineup.
Donbass? No development of Ukrainian hockey at all. All Ukrainians on the roster either are veteran superstars or come from other youth programs.
What will VIF joining KHL mean or Jokerit joining? More roster spots go to foreigners that could have been taken by local guys.
At least for Jokerit, now more Finns get to play in higher level of hockey. That can't be a bad thing.
And you can't build just a "local guys" team if you want to get some success too. Foreigners are needed too.
SoundAndFury
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- May 28, 2012
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I'm really not a fan of seeing KHL team as a cure for the country's hockey problems but your post is dramatic exaggeration where you went out full on to bash the KHL teams regardless of the facts. Most notably:
1) Latvia's hockey is living the years of resurrection, Jekimovs, Indrasis, Kenins, Freibergs, Gudlevskis, Girgensons, Rihards Bukarts, Jevpalovs, Lipsbergs, Kulda, Egle, Blugers, Golovkovs, Punnenovs, Mezlikins: this is 17-24 age group of absolutely high-end (by Latvian standards) Latvian prospects. There has never been that many. 7 of those guys are solid pros already, 5 are playing (and producing close to PPG) in CHL, 2 in NCAA and Egle is NCAA bound. There has never been so many. Pelss (R.I.P.) is missing from the group.
And that's not counting guys like Klavins, Roberts Bukarts, Mickevics, Kuzmenkovs, Upitis, Bicevskis, Pavlovs who will be solid NT players for Latvia but can't be treated as elite prospects because this froup is so deep.
Now I'm not gonna say KHL is responsible for this revival but it obviously didn't hurt and your words are just so, SO false.
2) Barys have one player who is ethnically Kazakh. Kazakh hockey is in much, much better shape now than it was when KHL was created: the league is pretty good, 2 teams are rather successful in the VHL and Barys is doing well in the KHL icing mostly a Kazakh (Kazakh born and developed, at least) lineup. They even have few really solid prospects (Mikhailis, Koshelev, Savitsky, Sergiyenko, Zinchenko) and yes, ethnically those are Russians and Ukrainians but who is to blame for that and what difference does it make?
3) Yes Lev is an artificial club which really doesn't do much good but Czech hockey is also a bit bigger thing than what one KHL team can fix. Slovan, meanwhile, was there all along so nothing has changed from Extraliga days other that Slovak prospects have a chance to play in the KHL now. And obviously, the better a player the bigger contract he gets and for the richer team he plays, that's the nature of the business, what an existence of the KHL has to do with it?
4) Medvescak was established in the place where hockey pretty much doesn't exist so sure, KHL can't just magically fix that.
5) This is the first year they have an MHL team so obviously KHL pros on the roster are from other Ukrainian teams, it couldn't be any other way. And even though this was the first year they had the team they have a huge bright spot on that team - Lyalka will probably be the first Ukrainian drafted in years and now they can proudly say that he didn't need to leave Ukraine to be noticed. Something which had been impossible ever before.
In the end what will happen with Spartak? If they are unable to attract a sponsor, they're out of the league and will continue in VHL or will fold?
Also with 4 new teams added and Spartak leaving, KHL will start the season with 31 teams? Or we shall expect a replacement for Spartak also?
Also with 4 new teams added and Spartak leaving, KHL will start the season with 31 teams? Or we shall expect a replacement for Spartak also?
vorky
@vorkywh24
- Jan 23, 2010
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Well its a club with a longggg history its not brand new but never played on this lvl. And KHL its helping a great deal to put it on d map here in publicity, expansion of the player pool in d long run and pressure to build d infrastructure, atleast for the Zagreb clubs to have good working conditions. Also it brings pressure to expand hockey and create better conditions for teams outside of Zagreb and exapnding d infrastructure. will it bare fruite in d end? I dn well see.
I think it is fair to say that Norway has benefited from having close ties to the hockey factory that is Sweden but Norway still deserves a lot of credit. By the looks of things only 6 of the players on the '14 Olympic roster had played for clubs outside of Norway before they were 20, and of those 6 only 3 played in Sweden. The players who did leave Norway as juniors also didn't leave until they where in their late teens. Basically before leaving to seek better pay and/or competition just about every single player on the Olympic roster spent 10+ years learning how to play at home. This doesn't make Norway all that different from any other European country.
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