KHL Expansion part II

[ult]

"You" already are in Moscow? KHL should expand everywhere, where the more money is. It's in Europe. The point is, there is a good reason to expand in Europe, I don't know how you were able to miss it.

There are more money in Europe? Funny, considering that the KHL teams have the budgets higher than the rest of the European leagues combined. Vorky is right. And KHL IS expanding. Hell, there are 9 countries in the KHL now. No one has missed anything.

 

[QnebO]

There are more money in Europe? Funny, considering that the KHL teams have the budgets higher than the rest of the European leagues combined. Vorky is right. And KHL IS expanding. Hell, there are 9 countries in the KHL now. No one has missed anything.

There are money in pockets of European customer, that is a good reason to market the game and product there. If some of the richest Russians wants to make non-profit charity hockey team, it's great thing, but how does it chance anything in that?

Yes it is now expanding here, it's great thing and like it should be, only some of you guys seem to hope it doesn't expand, being very negative about Europe in KHL, and hoping that the league stays basically as Russian Super league with couple of other teams.

 

[Ivan94]

Not gonna happen. Maximum is 32, half of russians as minimum. Europe does not have money.

I think 48 is possible. KHl just need the NHL calandar.
Eastern Conference (rusia, kazakhstan, (japan, korea,...))
Western Conference (rest of Europe)

8 divisions a 6 teams

2x23 inter-conference games
1x24 games against other conference
2x5 inter-division games
_______
80 games

 

[vorky]

True, European investors are not as sportsman as Russian ones, they only look for profit, not sponsorship at that big scale. But there is lots of money in European consumer markets, and that is why KHL will try to make their product more intresting for western consumer. Is the western conference / eastern conference thing so bad idea? They could have millions and millions of tv-viewers that pay alot bigger payments if they made the product truly intresting here.

I agree with that, I say again, I can imagine KHL as 50:50 league but I can not imagine 10 russian clubs and 22 from Europe. Russians (investors) are only one who spend money on hockey nowadays in Europe/Asia and they will spend as much as nececarry (KHL to be true euro league) for euro clubs not more. KHL does not need/want Europe/Asia (Kazakhstan etc) to have more teams in league than Russia. We can accept it or dont follow/join KHL. This strategy will not change, I am sure.

 

[vorky]

I think 48 is possible. KHl just need the NHL calandar.
Eastern Conference (rusia, kazakhstan, (japan, korea,...))
Western Conference (rest of Europe)

8 divisions a 6 teams

2x23 inter-conference games
1x24 games against other conference
2x5 inter-division games
_______
80 games

No it is not, 32 is maximum. It was said many times by Medvedev and co.

 

[QnebO]

No it is not, 32 is maximum. It was said many times by Medvedev and co.

You think that is the case to the end or just adding a bit of hesitation to get teams make their decisions little faster (join before its full)? Anyway, that Western / Eastern Conference is really good idea and that's what I hope will become true, I don't really care how many teams.

 

[ult]

There are money in pockets of European customer, that is a good reason to market the game and product there. If some of the richest Russians wants to make non-profit charity hockey team, it's great thing, but how does it chance anything in that?

Yes it is now expanding here, it's great thing and like it should be, only some of you guys seem to hope it doesn't expand, being very negative about Europe in KHL, and hoping that the league stays basically as Russian Super league with couple of other teams.

Good luck getting the money out of Londoners pockets. That's what you're aiming for, right?

And I'm not against the expansion, I just don't like it that right now, 6 years after emerge of KHL, and its obvious growth, here come the people (not you personally) who laughed at it in the beginning, and saying that we should get rid of this and that in order to "compete with NHL". I think KHL is doing great, and moving in the right direction with good speed, and without any of the things those people complain about. No need to rush things and destroy the work of this years.

Don't worry, I am aware that some Russian teams have no place in KHL. Some cities are just too small. But when the time is right they'll be moved to more proper locations, like Sochi, Tyumen, Krasnoyarsk. And everything there will be of top-notch quality even by the world standards.

 

[Ivan94]

No it is not, 32 is maximum. It was said many times by Medvedev and co.

i think theoretically possible.

and medvedev can change his opinion.

 

[QnebO]

Good luck getting the money out of Londoners pockets. That's what you're aiming for, right?

Londern's hold no heritage on the game, but on the other hand that kind of countries hold potentional. In long term, well marketed good product can break in any market. It's just a guestion of people to realize how good game hockey is and guestion of having it available for them. That last question is what Russian investors money seems right now to able to solve. But hockey nations first. Germany would be great.

 

[Sanf]

KHL has IMO two main goals:

1) promote and develop russian hockey
therefore MHL, VHL, student and kids hockey in future


2) compete with NHL
Not easy if euro clubs dont want to join. It took 4 yrs to get club from Prague, 5 yrs for club from Helsinki. I agree with ult that KHL will have minimum 1/2 of clubs (16), not less. I know, fans would like to have their local team in KHL, but not every local team from Europe can play KHL, you need arena, inhabitants, money... I agree that no Paris, no London.

And you wonder why Finns and Swedes aren´t that keen on joining to help on the number one goal?

You say that the foreign players restrictions are moved off after Sochi. International hockey doesn´t stop on there. What if Russia ends up in disaster at Sochi? If the RHF has power to control teams now why wouldn´t they do it after Sochi? What is the quarantee that RHF doesn´t make any other rule changes over the years to help and secure the Russian national team. And wanting to keep more than half of the teams kind of goes to the same category of securing Russian hockey. But naturally Russians want to do what is best for Russian hockey. And even Jokerit is going to play with their money so... But at this time it just really feels that Jokerit is more of Russian league team based on Helsinki than Finnish club playing in KHL.

But I try to be open minded towards this. Intresting this is going to be if nothing else

 

[Vicente]

It's actually pretty easy and there are 3 realistic scenarios IMHO but Western Europeans have to look what they really want:

a) KHL is a 32 team league with each one top team from Finland, Sweden, Germany and Switzerland added in the near future
b) KHL stays outside of Western European hockey markets and we still have small leagues like Elitserien, SM-liiga, NLA, DEL etc
c) We have 1 or 2 newly build big leagues like a Nordic League (Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway) and Central European League (Germany, Switzerland, Austria) or a combined league of teams from Northern Europe and Central Europe with 32 teams.

I don't think Swedes will ever be part of any major league because they don't have enough inhabitants and they rather play small town vs small town than top hockey vs top hockey.

 

[Eidyia]

Kontinental Hockey League 2025

Western Conference

Jaroslavl (RUS)
Nizhny Novgorod (RUS)
CSKA Moscow (RUS)
Dynamo Moscow (RUS)
Spartak Moscow (RUS)
SKA St.Petersburg (RUS)
Lev Prague (CZE)
Sparta Praha/Slavia Praha/HC Plzen/Kometa Brno (CZE)
Slovan Bratislava (SLV)
HC Kosice (SLV)
Donbass Donetsk (UKR)
Dinamo Minsk (BLR)
Dinamo Riga (LAT)
Jokerit Helsinki (FIN)
IFK Helsinki (FIN)
Tappara Tampere (FIN)
Kärpät Oulu (FIN)
AIK Stockholm (SWE)
Djurgården Stockholm (SWE)
Frölunda Göteborg (SWE)
Malmö Redhawks (SWE)
Kölner Haie (GER)
Eisbären Berlin (GER)
Red Bull Salzburg (AUT)
Vienna Capitals (AUT)
Zurich Lions (SUI)
HC Bern (SUI)
Medveczak (CRO)
Milano Rossoblu (ITA)
Stavanger Oilers (NOR)
Blue Fox Herning (DEN)
Olivia Gdansk (POL)
Szekesfehervar (HUN)

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Amur (RUS)
Vladivostok (RUS)
Chelyabinsk (RUS)
Cherepovets (RUS)
Togliat (RUS)
Novokuznetks (RUS)
Novosibirsk (RUS)
Yekaterinburg (RUS)
Omsk (RUS)
Magnitogorsk (RUS)
Nizhnekamsk (RUS)
Khanty-Mansiysk (RUS)
Kazan (RUS)
Ufa (RUS)
Astana (KAZ)
Tokyo (JPN)
Oji Eagles (JPN)
Harbin (CHI)
Beijing (CHI)
Seoul (KOR)
Anyang Halla (KOR)
Dubai ?
Abu Dhabi II?
Doha ?
Pjongjang ?
Team 26
Team 27
Team 28
Team 29
Team 30
Team 31
Team 32

Any suggestions for teams 26-32?

 

[Ivan94]

My Version:

Kontinental Hockey League 2025

Western Conference

Lev Prague (CZE)
Sparta Praha/Slavia Praha/HC Plzen/Kometa Brno (CZE)
Slovan Bratislava (SLV)
HC Kosice (SLV)
Donbass Donetsk (UKR)
Dinamo Minsk (BLR)
Dinamo Riga (LAT)
Jokerit Helsinki (FIN)
IFK Helsinki (FIN)
Tappara Tampere (FIN)
Kärpät Oulu (FIN)
AIK Stockholm (SWE)
Djurgården Stockholm (SWE)
Frölunda Göteborg (SWE)
Malmö Redhawks (SWE)
Kölner Haie (GER)
Eisbären Berlin (GER)
Red Bull Salzburg (AUT)
Vienna Capitals (AUT)
Zurich Lions (SUI)
HC Bern (SUI)
Medveczak (CRO)
Milano Rossoblu (ITA)
Stavanger Oilers (NOR)
Blue Fox Herning (DEN)
Olivia Gdansk (POL)
Szekesfehervar (HUN)
Olympia Ljubljana (SLO)
Paris
London
Amsterdam
Madrid


EASTERN CONFERENCE

Jaroslavl (RUS)
Nizhny Novgorod (RUS)
CSKA Moscow (RUS)
Dynamo Moscow (RUS)
Spartak Moscow (RUS)
SKA St.Petersburg (RUS)
Amur (RUS)
Vladivostok (RUS)
Chelyabinsk (RUS)
Cherepovets (RUS)
Togliat (RUS)
Novokuznetks (RUS)
Novosibirsk (RUS)
Yekaterinburg (RUS)
Omsk (RUS)
Magnitogorsk (RUS)
Nizhnekamsk (RUS)
Khanty-Mansiysk (RUS)
Kazan (RUS)
Ufa (RUS)
Astana (KAZ)
Karaganda (KAZ)
Tokyo (JPN)
Oji Eagles (JPN)
Harbin (CHI)
Beijing (CHI)
Seoul (KOR)
Anyang Halla (KOR)
Dubai ?
Abu Dhabi?
Doha ?
Pjongjang ?

 

[vorky]

You think that is the case to the end or just adding a bit of hesitation to get teams make their decisions little faster (join before its full)? Anyway, that Western / Eastern Conference is really good idea and that's what I hope will become true, I don't really care how many teams.

I dont know, it can be a incluence for euro clubs to join but I dont think it is main or even so important.

IMO, KHL thinks that 32 is ideal number of clubs. Can you imagine league with 40-60 clubs? What about schedulle, quality, etc? As I and ult said, russian clubs can leave KHL, but other russian clubs will substitute them, maybe some RUS KHL team will be substitute by euro club. Who knows? On the other hand, I dont believe we will have less than 16 RUS clubs. Dreaming about 5 FIN/SWE clubs in KHL is just a dream nothing more. Ult is right here.

Good luck getting the money out of Londoners pockets. That's what you're aiming for, right?

And I'm not against the expansion, I just don't like it that right now, 6 years after emerge of KHL, and its obvious growth, here come the people (not you personally) who laughed at it in the beginning, and saying that we should get rid of this and that in order to "compete with NHL". I think KHL is doing great, and moving in the right direction with good speed, and without any of the things those people complain about. No need to rush things and destroy the work of this years.

Don't worry, I am aware that some Russian teams have no place in KHL. Some cities are just too small. But when the time is right they'll be moved to more proper locations, like Sochi, Tyumen, Krasnoyarsk. And everything there will be of top-notch quality even by the world standards.

agree and bold is the most imporstant message.

And you wonder why Finns and Swedes aren´t that keen on joining to help on the number one goal?

You say that the foreign players restrictions are moved off after Sochi. International hockey doesn´t stop on there. What if Russia ends up in disaster at Sochi? If the RHF has power to control teams now why wouldn´t they do it after Sochi? What is the quarantee that RHF doesn´t make any other rule changes over the years to help and secure the Russian national team. And wanting to keep more than half of the teams kind of goes to the same category of securing Russian hockey. But naturally Russians want to do what is best for Russian hockey. And even Jokerit is going to play with their money so... But at this time it just really feels that Jokerit is more of Russian league team based on Helsinki than Finnish club playing in KHL.

But I try to be open minded towards this. Intresting this is going to be if nothing else

I can write loooooong posts on this topic. Really. There is a thread about KHL aftech Sochi, I recommend it.

Many Qs, but I will be short. All depends on money, right? KHL will take control over FHR after Sochi = KHL will govern KHL and FHR. I mean, ppl loyal to KHL will govern FHR. IIHF - Fasel has no problem with KHL´s western expansion now, Kummola (vicepresident IIHF, head of FIN association) said that Jokerit joining KHL is good for international hockey. ????? Why did they change the mind?

Yes, everything can happen. KHL´s plan can fail, but I give more chances that KHL´s plan will be succesfull.

For those who follow KHL closely. Very interesting thing.... FHR delegated the right to govern the league to KHL for 3 years (2008-2011). IMO after 3yrs (in 2011), the deal was re-signed for next 3yrs (current reglemet is for 2011/12 - 13/14 seasons). The Q, when the problems with limits/schedulling/foreign goalies started? Was not in summer 2011? When the deal was re-signed? If it was, then the deal ends after following season, KHL can be independent from FHR.. or to sign new deal which is good for KHL (because FHR is govern KHL ). Just crazy idea...

 

[marquinhos]

Kontinental Hockey League 2025

Western Conference

Jaroslavl (RUS)
Nizhny Novgorod (RUS)
CSKA Moscow (RUS)
Dynamo Moscow (RUS)
Spartak Moscow (RUS)
SKA St.Petersburg (RUS)
Lev Prague (CZE)
Sparta Praha/Slavia Praha/HC Plzen/Kometa Brno (CZE)
Slovan Bratislava (SLV)
HC Kosice (SLV)
Donbass Donetsk (UKR)
Dinamo Minsk (BLR)
Dinamo Riga (LAT)
Jokerit Helsinki (FIN)
IFK Helsinki (FIN)
Tappara Tampere (FIN)
Kärpät Oulu (FIN)
AIK Stockholm (SWE)
Djurgården Stockholm (SWE)
Frölunda Göteborg (SWE)
Malmö Redhawks (SWE)
Kölner Haie (GER)
Eisbären Berlin (GER)
Red Bull Salzburg (AUT)
Vienna Capitals (AUT)
Zurich Lions (SUI)
HC Bern (SUI)
Medveczak (CRO)
Milano Rossoblu (ITA)
Stavanger Oilers (NOR)
Blue Fox Herning (DEN)
Olivia Gdansk (POL)
Szekesfehervar (HUN)

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Amur (RUS)
Vladivostok (RUS)
Chelyabinsk (RUS)
Cherepovets (RUS)
Togliat (RUS)
Novokuznetks (RUS)
Novosibirsk (RUS)
Yekaterinburg (RUS)
Omsk (RUS)
Magnitogorsk (RUS)
Nizhnekamsk (RUS)
Khanty-Mansiysk (RUS)
Kazan (RUS)
Ufa (RUS)
Astana (KAZ)
Tokyo (JPN)
Oji Eagles (JPN)
Harbin (CHI)
Beijing (CHI)
Seoul (KOR)
Anyang Halla (KOR)
Dubai ?
Abu Dhabi?
Doha ?
Pjongjang ?
Team 26
Team 27
Team 28
Team 29
Team 30
Team 31
Team 32

Any suggestions for teams 26-32?

no way.

 

[Shrimper]

32 teams in each conference is too much.

 

[vorky]

Harkimo surprised the Swedes
http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/jaakiekk...13/06/1775177/harkimo-yllatti-ruotsalaisetkin

Why I am not suprised?

 

[Eidyia]

no way.

Heh, I had Kazan and Ufa at western conference at first but as it became more and more obvious that I'd have problems to fill the eastern I had to move them.

Ivan94's version is probably more realistic, although I doubt that the billionaires in St.Petersburg and Moscow would change away games in Berlin, Stockholm and Helsinki vs. Amur, Vladivostok, etc (nothing against those cities, it's just a really long flight).

 

[Eidyia]

32 teams in each conference is too much.

Yeah, of course it is. But that's what they're aiming at in the long run (rumoured).

 

[Shrimper]

Kontinental Hockey League 2025

Western Conference

CSKA Moscow (RUS)
Dynamo Moscow (RUS)
Spartak Moscow (RUS)
SKA St.Petersburg (RUS)
Lev Prague (CZE)
Sparta Praha/Slavia Praha/HC Plzen/Kometa Brno (CZE)
Slovan Bratislava (SLV)
Donbass Donetsk (UKR)
Dinamo Minsk (BLR)
Dinamo Riga (LAT)
Jokerit Helsinki (FIN)
IFK Helsinki (FIN)
Eisbären Berlin (GER)
Red Bull Salzburg (AUT)
Zurich Lions (SUI)
HC Bern (SUI)
Medveczak (CRO)
Milano Rossoblu (ITA)
Olivia Gdansk (POL)


EASTERN CONFERENCE

Jaroslavl (RUS
Nizhny Novgorod (RUS)
Amur (RUS)
Vladivostok (RUS)
Chelyabinsk (RUS)
Cherepovets (RUS)
Togliat (RUS)
Novokuznetks (RUS)
Novosibirsk (RUS)
Yekaterinburg (RUS)
Omsk (RUS)
Magnitogorsk (RUS)
Nizhnekamsk (RUS)
Khanty-Mansiysk (RUS)
Kazan (RUS)
Ufa (RUS)
Astana (KAZ)
Tokyo (JPN)
Beijing (CHI)
Seoul (KOR)

Think it leaves 19 teams on each side.

 

[Eidyia]

^That looks much better and less lopsided.

Although I remember reading somewhere that the Russians are planning for 32+32 league in which one conference is Eastern and Western European (including St.Petersburg & Moscow) and one is Eastern Russian, Kazakhstan and Asian.

 

[ficohok*]

Kontinental Hockey League 2025

Western Conference


Medveczak (CRO)

Maybe by then Medvescak will produce at least one homegrown player that is good enough to be role player in KHL at worst

 

[BalticWarrior]

Kontinental Hockey League 2025

Western Conference

CSKA Moscow (RUS)
Dynamo Moscow (RUS)
Spartak Moscow (RUS)
SKA St.Petersburg (RUS)
Lev Prague (CZE)
Sparta Praha/Slavia Praha/HC Plzen/Kometa Brno (CZE)
Slovan Bratislava (SLV)
Donbass Donetsk (UKR)
Dinamo Minsk (BLR)
Dinamo Riga (LAT)
Jokerit Helsinki (FIN)
IFK Helsinki (FIN)
Eisbären Berlin (GER)
Red Bull Salzburg (AUT)
Zurich Lions (SUI)
HC Bern (SUI)
Medveczak (CRO)
Milano Rossoblu (ITA)
Olivia Gdansk (POL)


EASTERN CONFERENCE

Jaroslavl (RUS
Nizhny Novgorod (RUS)
Amur (RUS)
Vladivostok (RUS)
Chelyabinsk (RUS)
Cherepovets (RUS)
Togliat (RUS)
Novokuznetks (RUS)
Novosibirsk (RUS)
Yekaterinburg (RUS)
Omsk (RUS)
Magnitogorsk (RUS)
Nizhnekamsk (RUS)
Khanty-Mansiysk (RUS)
Kazan (RUS)
Ufa (RUS)
Astana (KAZ)
Tokyo (JPN)
Beijing (CHI)
Seoul (KOR)

Think it leaves 19 teams on each side.

Bolded i dont want in the future

 

[marquinhos]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=68209843#post68209843

Hey guys. Come here!

 

[Tissotti]

Harkimo surprised the Swedes
http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/jaakiekk...13/06/1775177/harkimo-yllatti-ruotsalaisetkin

Why I am not suprised?

You can't ever be sure about anything with Harkimo.

Maybe this could put some speed at some kind of Euro league? Jokerit rivals HIFK already commented that they have their eyes firmly towards west, Nordics and have no plans at joining KHL. How weird it would be to have example HIFK playing in some kind Euro league and Jokerit in a KHL. Both from a same city.
Probably in a longer run one or the another would need to dominate.