KHL Expansion part II

[hallonskal]

Russian hockey development and the KHL are "married" with each other because the money to run the league comes from Russia.

Russia will ALWAYS be the "core" of the league. A situation where 50% of the teams are non-Russian is a pipe dream. It will not happen. In order to have a strong KHL we need strong Russian hockey.

If KHL ever wants to be able to compete with NHL they have to ditch a lot of Russian teams and look at the bigger west-european cities (and maybe a few Asian ones) for new teams. KHL will never be able to compete with NHL, popularity or quality-wise, if the league doesn't expand to western europe at the cost of Russian teams.

If KHL is happy as the second best league in the world, far behind NHL, then they can probably stay the way they are with mostly Russian teams but I don't think that is the reason why they created the league in the first place..

 

[QnebO]

If KHL ever wants to be able to compete with NHL they have to ditch a lot of Russian teams and look at the bigger west-european cities (and maybe a few Asian ones) for new teams.

This is probably the direction what they aim for. That is what they must aim for actually. Otherwise some big league will take place in Europe in some point and many teams, including Jokerit will join it as it would be - let's face it - even more than just great hockey to see it being done more western style. That doesn't mean that alot of russian teams couldn't be part of it, even the leading part of it still with their money. This is their chance and they seem to be pretty solidly pressing on it so far. KHL getting it done with their recources will be benefit for European hockey. We will be able to watch top level game on primetime, marketed primarily for us (that is why they can ultimately even compete with NHL). They just need to keep involving more west and learning about the marketing and making the product even finer.

 

[ult]

Not gonna happen. There will be at least 16 teams from Russia. And why would someone want to get rid of the teams from bigger cities, with bigger and more modern arenas and with bigger budgets to replace them with some dubious european projects.

Yes, some small teams can move here and there within the Russia, as there are a lot of >1mln cities that don't have KHL teams yet. But no one's gonna fold Nizhny Novgorod with 16000 arena just because europeans don't like it.

 

[QnebO]

. But no one's gonna fold Nizhny Novgorod with 16000 arena just because europeans don't like it.

Who even says we don't like it? But if you think clearly, you must want Paris, London, Stockholm, Berlin and some other European big cities or key-cities from hockey countries in if you really want this thing become the "NHL of the old continent".

Drop out B-teams from Russia, make it a diamond as league. No one is disliking Russian cities, there are just hopes to the league to be actually great. They have clearly chosen to not be just Russian league already dude.

 

[ult]

Who even says we don't like it? But if you think clearly, you must want Paris, London, Stockholm, Berlin and some other European big cities or key-cities from hockey countries in if you really want this thing become the "NHL of the old continent".

Drop out B-teams from Russia, make it a diamond as league. No one is disliking Russian cities, there are just hopes to the league to be actually great. They have clearly chosen to not be just Russian league already dude.

Paris? London? No. I don't want them, and obviously I don't want them in the league at the expense of Russian teams. Berlin? Well, we still have a couple of spots left.

As for competing with NHL, don't worry, KHL is developing in the right direction as it is just fine, without the European teams from London or Paris. We have the increasing amount of big modern arenas, the amount of investment in infrastructure and marketing is far beyond any other hockey nation in Europe can hope to achieve. Next year KHL will be a lot better than last year. In 5 years? You won't recognize it.

 

[QnebO]

Paris? London? No. I don't want them, and obviously I don't want them in the league at the expense of Russian teams. Berlin? Well, we still have a couple of spots left.

As for competing with NHL, don't worry, KHL is developing in the right direction as it is just fine, without the European teams from London or Paris. We have the increasing amount of big modern arenas, the amount of investment in infrastructure and marketing is far beyond any other hockey nation in Europe can hope to achieve. Next year KHL will be a lot better than last year. In 5 years? You won't recognize it.

If you don't change the style to more western, you will never get the best players and will always lose to NHL I think. You need western teams for western players, you have your eastern teams for your eastern players. How about eastern and western conference.

 

[ult]

If you don't change the style to more western, you will never get the best players and will always lose to NHL I think. You need western teams for western players, you have your eastern teams for your eastern players. How about eastern and western conference.

I think your problem is that you're trying to compare Russia to Finland or Sweden or other hockey nation in Europe. I can see where you're confused as hockey-wise we're pretty comparable. We have about the same number of rinks and hockey players, but Russia isn't a 5 million nation like Finland or Slovakia. Russia is huge. KHL TV has 15 million paying subscribers and has access to about 50 million viewers. That's triple the population of Finland. And where some smaller nations need to unite to stay competitive that is not the case for Russia. We have an immense room for growth within our borders, especially when it comes to hockey. So don't worry about KHL, if they can explore at least 10% of that potential, we're gonna be great.

 

[vorky]

Ferros and others

KHL has IMO two main goals:

1) promote and develop russian hockey
therefore MHL, VHL, student and kids hockey in future


2) compete with NHL
Not easy if euro clubs dont want to join. It took 4 yrs to get club from Prague, 5 yrs for club from Helsinki. I agree with ult that KHL will have minimum 1/2 of clubs (16), not less. I know, fans would like to have their local team in KHL, but not every local team from Europe can play KHL, you need arena, inhabitants, money... I agree that no Paris, no London.

 

[QnebO]

I think your problem is that you're trying to compare Russia to Finland or Sweden or other hockey nation in Europe. I can see where you're confused as hockey-wise we're pretty comparable. .

I think you don't see that you will not be that great, if you don't start to get best Canadians, best Swedes and best anyone to play in your league. What do you think it will take? It doesn't matter how many russians there are. It doesn't matter what money they can offer, because NHL can offer them just enough of it. You need other things too, or you just stay as the second best, not fully international league.

 

[ozo]

I have no problems even with 32 Russian teams in the league, because who really said that league has to stop at such an NA-esque number? NA sports scene is a completely different beast and it has very good reasons to stop there.

I'm all for currently very utopic (arbitrary) number like 64, which would mean every major hockey city in Europe could eventually have it's own team in the league. Though again, it's a long term plan and hockey still needs to grow immensely to increase it's player pool to necessary levels.

 

[hallonskal]

Not gonna happen. There will be at least 16 teams from Russia. And why would someone want to get rid of the teams from bigger cities, with bigger and more modern arenas and with bigger budgets to replace them with some dubious european projects.

Yes, some small teams can move here and there within the Russia, as there are a lot of >1mln cities that don't have KHL teams yet. But no one's gonna fold Nizhny Novgorod with 16000 arena just because europeans don't like it.

You don't get it, it doesn't matter what we or you want or like. If KHL wants to be able to compete with NHL it can never be a Russian league with some European teams in it, it probably has to be at least 50% non-Russian (if not more). They will need to expand into Western Europe if they want that to happen and it will have to be at the cost of Russian teams. KHL as a Russian league will never be as big as NHL outside of Russia, you will need help from Western Europe. I'm sure the KHL already knows this and that they want to compete with NHL (that seems to be the point with the league) so sooner or later it will happen or they will try to make it happen and fail, time will tell.

 

[Finnpin]

KHL TV has 15 million paying subscribers and has access to about 50 million viewers.

KHL TV? is it online? how much does it cost? and how many of your favourite team games can you see from there?

 

[eluu]

delete

 

[ult]

I think you don't see that you will not be that great, if you don't start to get best Canadians, best Swedes and best anyone to play in your league. What do you think it will take? It doesn't matter how many russians there are. It doesn't matter what money they can offer, because NHL can offer them just enough of it. You need other things too, or you just stay as the second best, not fully international league.

It's just that I think that pursuing the best north americans into KHL is a stupid idea to begin with. It's like chasing the rainbow, not gonna happen. So ruining what you've got in hopes that some canadian boy will come over is pointless. NHL won't be the best without the best Europeans. The rest doesn't matter.

 

[Pominville Knows]

I'm a new fan of Jokerit becouse of this. I hope amongst others my hometown team Frölunda Indians joins as well so that the KHL can create a nordic division.

 

[Jussi]

I think your problem is that you're trying to compare Russia to Finland or Sweden or other hockey nation in Europe. I can see where you're confused as hockey-wise we're pretty comparable. We have about the same number of rinks and hockey players, but Russia isn't a 5 million nation like Finland or Slovakia. Russia is huge. KHL TV has 15 million paying subscribers and has access to about 50 million viewers. That's triple the population of Finland. And where some smaller nations need to unite to stay competitive that is not the case for Russia. We have an immense room for growth within our borders, especially when it comes to hockey. So don't worry about KHL, if they can explore at least 10% of that potential, we're gonna be great.

No we don't, Russia has a clear advantage in the number of hockey players. Rinks as well. See the thread at Russia section.

 

[ult]

KHL TV? is it online? how much does it cost? and how many of your favourite team games can you see from there?

KHL TV is a Russian hockey channel created by KHL in 2009, devoted entirely to KHL, VHL and MHL. In 2012 KHL launched the simulcast HD version of the channel called KHL HD. This year there will be another HD channel with different programming. It is a paid channel, with the subscription fee of 2$ per month for SD and 5$ per month for HD version. Though sometimes it goes as a part of the larger packet of channels, that's why it has the bigger viewership compared to the number of subscribers. It can be found online in torrent streams etc, not as an actual service.

 

[vorky]

I have no problems even with 32 Russian teams in the league, because who really said that league has to stop at such an NA-esque number? NA sports scene is a completely different beast and it has very good reasons to stop there.

I'm all for currently very utopic (arbitrary) number like 64, which would mean every major hockey city in Europe could eventually have it's own team in the league. Though again, it's a long term plan and hockey still needs to grow immensely to increase it's player pool to necessary levels.

Not gonna happen. Maximum is 32, half of russians as minimum. Europe does not have money.

KHL TV? is it online? how much does it cost? and how many of your favourite team games can you see from there?

It was said already. You can watch games online (paid) at khl website, but it is almost impossible to pay from Europe (there is a thread somewhere), but it can change in future.

 

[QnebO]

Not gonna happen. Maximum is 32, half of russians as minimum. Europe does not have money.

Yeah sure, average salary in Russia 800+ $ per month, Finland 2900$ per month. European customers would easily pay 20$ per month for what you pay 5$ month in TV for example. There is the motive to expand in europe

 

[Tissotti]

Naturally the interest towards west is about money.

Though I do wonder how will the KHL TV rights chance here after this. I believe NelonenPro has been showing KHL so far.

 

[Finnpin]

Though I do wonder how will the KHL TV rights chance here after this. I believe NelonenPro has been showing KHL so far.

Viasat Hockey Finland

http://www.iltasanomat.fi/khl/art-1288578080279.html

 

[vorky]

Yeah sure, average salary in Russia 800+ $ per month, Finland 2900$ per month. European customers would easily pay 20$ per month for what you pay 5$ month in TV for example. There is the motive to expand in europe

You dont get my point. Europe does not have/or does not want to spend/ money on hockey. Look, Champions League failed immidiatelly as Gazprom left. Why? Budgets of top euro clubs are comparable with poorest/average KHL teams. I can not imagine some mighty company to give millions to euro club/hockey project .. even this ET/EC project will not have such money as KHL has.

I see 2 options to have "big" money in euro hockey club
1) NHL to pay it which wont happen (NHL is not stupid)
2) russian investor which means joining KHL

Arabs, Sauds will not invest into euro hockey, they have football to do it. Chinese or BRICS the same.

 

[QnebO]

Europe does not have/or does not want to spend/ money on hockey. Look, Champions League failed immidiatelly as Gazprom left. Why? Budgets of top euro clubs are comparable with poorest/average KHL teams. I can not imagine some mighty company to give millions to euro club/hockey project .. even this ET/EC project will not have such money as KHL has.

True, European investors are not as sportsman as Russian ones, they only look for profit, not sponsorship at that big scale. But there is lots of money in European consumer markets, and that is why KHL will try to make their product more intresting for western consumer. Is the western conference / eastern conference thing so bad idea? They could have millions and millions of tv-viewers that pay alot bigger payments if they made the product truly intresting here.

 

[ult]

Yeah sure, average salary in Russia 800+ $ per month, Finland 2900$ per month. European customers would easily pay 20$ per month for what you pay 5$ month in TV for example. There is the motive to expand in europe

Average salary in Moscow is more than $2000. The population of Moscow is more than 14 mln people. 9 mln more than in the whole Finland. Your point is? We should expand into Moscow?

 

[QnebO]

Average salary in Moscow is $2000. The population of Moscow is more than 14 mln people. 9 mln more than in the whole Finland. Your point is? We should expand into Moscow?

"You" already are in Moscow? KHL should expand everywhere, where the more money is. It's in Europe. The point is, there is a good reason to expand in Europe, I don't know how you were able to miss it.
Finland is just a step to the bigger european markets, more meaning in many other way than Finnish customer markets. If everything goes in the Finland, rest of the Europe is much easier to approach.