Kevyn Adams GM thread

[Jim Bob]

Of course waiting helps...Every bubble playoff team wont make trades that jepardize their chances, teams aren't going to make major moves like that.

In June/July/Draft you have a bigger opportunity to make something happen. Not sure why you can't see more teams would be interested.

Teams who didn't make the playoffs, bubble teams, teams who got booted in the first round might want to make changes, GMs and Coaches fired new management want to make changes.

We traded for a guy who can't even play because he is injured and added a 2nd.

Waiting doesn't always help.

Just look at the end of the Darcy tenure at GM or even how patient Adams has been so far as GM.

Patience can be good. But, it can also be bad.

If Cozens had continued to look horrible, the offers might have gotten worse and not better.

 

[Pondslider]

Then maybe don’t trade the 24 year old at all and try to fix the team so he and the other young players you’ve invested so much in can succeed?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Then maybe don’t trade the 24 year old at all and try to fix the team so he and the other young players you’ve invested so much in can succeed?

I think the problem is that they were banking on him being a center, and Lindy was telling him he couldn’t handle it. I agree.

Since they don’t have any other centers, I think they were desperate to find an actual top 6 center (they arguably have none) and Cozens was the most valuable player they could afford to lose to get that center.

 

[Game suspension]

Resigning Bryson is the act of a GM who just doesn't get it. If there is a god Adams will be canned the day after the season ends.

 

[Beerz]

Pushing all my chips in. Dude is toast.

Who?

 

[Pondslider]

I think the problem is that they were banking on him being a center, and Lindy was telling him he couldn’t handle it. I agree.

Since they don’t have any other centers, I think they were desperate to find an actual top 6 center (they arguably have none) and Cozens was the most valuable player they could afford to lose to get that center.

Where is he playing in Ottawa?

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Where is he playing in Ottawa?

Where is Norris playing in Buffalo? LOL. Joke.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Interestingly, if you watch the video of Pegula and Adams from box last night, they were sitting far apart. Could be nothing. But i believe Adams is gone at end of the year. It would be so Terry to allow Adams to make a major trade and then fire him

 

[TehDoak]

With the Norris/Cozens trade, you grade these out in a few years typically.

But, on the surface, taking on:

A worse contract player with lower upside who is 2 years older and has Chronic injury issues so you can sell low on Cozens when the season is already effectively over AND give up a draft pick to do so seems bad.

If Ottawa makes the playoffs because Cozens is on a heater....the question is: why couldn't we figure this out as a team and how to make Cozens effective?

Cozens would be the 3rd top 10 pick forward he's moved that has thrived once he got out of here. In 5 years. That's insanity.

This is a systemic issue of the organization failing to get the best out of high end players, then they get sick of losing, you have to trade them, selling low, and you are resetting. And it's about to happen with Dahlin if we find a way to stop it. The Sabres are becoming the farm team for contenders. We get the high end prospects, give them ton of NHL ice time, and when they are sick of losing, they go to contenders and we get more draft picks to do it again.

 

[toddkaz]

Waiting doesn't always help.

Just look at the end of the Darcy tenure at GM or even how patient Adams has been so far as GM.

Patience can be good. But, it can also be bad.

If Cozens had continued to look horrible, the offers might have gotten worse and not better.

Just saying waiting doesn't always help makes it so. We are talking about a specific case here Dylan Cozens we are not generalizing so what does Darcy have to do with Dylan Cozens?

If Cozens started to look better he would have been worth more. See its easy to speculate it still does not make your point. When he goes off to play for Team Canada like last year and puts up the same his value rockets. Speculation is easy to make.

 

[Sabreality]

Cozens now has the benefit of playing between Perron & Batherson, that wouldve been like centering Zucker-Tuch here, instead he was saddled with Quinn & JJP, some Benson...too many kids in the kitchen.

Its not so much the individuals, its KA's failed roster construction time and time again. Yea, Cozens was a problem himself, but too many of the younger players have been set up to fail without the proper insulation.

Hope it works out with Norris, idk, I'm beyond ngaf really.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

With the Norris/Cozens trade, you grade these out in a few years typically.

But, on the surface, taking on:

A worse contract player with lower upside who is 2 years older and has Chronic injury issues so you can sell low on Cozens when the season is already effectively over AND give up a draft pick to do so seems bad.

If Ottawa makes the playoffs because Cozens is on a heater....the question is: why couldn't we figure this out as a team and how to make Cozens effective?

Cozens would be the 3rd top 10 pick forward he's moved that has thrived once he got out of here. In 5 years. That's insanity.

This is a systemic issue of the organization failing to get the best out of high end players, then they get sick of losing, you have to trade them, selling low, and you are resetting. And it's about to happen with Dahlin if we find a way to stop it. The Sabres are becoming the farm team for contenders. We get the high end prospects, give them ton of NHL ice time, and when they are sick of losing, they go to contenders and we get more draft picks to do it again.

I don’t agree that it’s a worse contract, value-wise. I don’t think you can say that if you watch Cozens last like 20 months and say his contract is better value than anyone in the league.

You can say “more expensive” but not worse. I’d argue Norris is the better, more consistent player, offering better value per dollar spent.

Don’t really care about this trade but saying Cozens contract is better value is just plain wrong based on every ounce of evidence.

 

[Jim Bob]

Just saying waiting doesn't always help makes it so. We are talking about a specific case here Dylan Cozens we are not generalizing so what does Darcy have to do with Dylan Cozens?

If Cozens started to look better he would have been worth more. See its easy to speculate it still does not make your point. When he goes off to play for Team Canada like last year and puts up the same his value rockets. Speculation is easy to make.

Speculation is also not based on facts or reality.

 

[toddkaz]

Speculation is also not based on facts or reality.
I am glad we agree.

Now go look at the statistics of "hockey trades" vs rentals during the trade deadline vs off season.

Statistically speaking more trades are made in the off season showing that more teams are willing to make hockey trades in the off season than trade deadline.

I really didn't think its difficult to understand and even GMs say this. They say its easier to make these trades in the off season. Would you like some quotes from GMs on this?

Quote from the article
Generally, it's considered easier for General Managers (GMs) to make trades during the offseason, as they have more time, resources, and less pressure to make immediate roster changes compared to the constraints of the trade deadline.

Trade Deadline brings unique challenges for coaches to navigate | NHL.com

Granato says time must be spent assessing roster, learning potential new players, easing stress in locker room

www.nhl.com

NHL GM tendencies: Who trades the most? When do they like to deal?

One of the best ways to predict an NHL general manager’s potential trade activity is by looking at their history.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Jim Bob]

I am glad we agree.

Now go look at the statistics of "hockey trades" vs rentals during the trade deadline vs off season.

Statistically speaking more trades are made in the off season showing that more teams are willing to make hockey trades in the off season than trade deadline.

I really didn't think its difficult to understand and even GMs say this. They say its easier to make these trades in the off season. Would you like some quotes from GMs on this?

Trade Deadline brings unique challenges for coaches to navigate | NHL.com

Granato says time must be spent assessing roster, learning potential new players, easing stress in locker room

www.nhl.com

NHL GM tendencies: Who trades the most? When do they like to deal?

One of the best ways to predict an NHL general manager’s potential trade activity is by looking at their history.

www.nytimes.com

That is still speculation that offers would get better.

Would they have gotten more for Mitts than Byram straight up if they had waited last year and moved Mitts at the draft?

You cannot prove it either way.

Just like you have no facts to base things on with regards to getting better offers before the deadline.

 

[toddkaz]

That is still speculation that offers would get better.

Would they have gotten more for Mitts than Byram straight up if they had waited last year and moved Mitts at the draft?

You cannot prove it either way.

Just like you have no facts to base things on with regards to getting better offers before the deadline.

You are a quick reader!

I base my posting on the fact that GMs say so. No you will say GMs are wrong? I don't even get why you are arguing this. I even provided sources.

 

[sabremike]

 

[Jim Bob]

You are a quick reader!

I base my posting on the fact that GMs say so. No you will say GMs are wrong? I don't even get why you are arguing this. I even provided sources.

Past results are not guarantees of future outcomes.

You can wonder IF he could have gotten more if he had waited. That is fair.

But, you cannot say with certainty that he would have gotten a better deal if he had waited.

For instance, if Cozens and Norris didn't move, maybe Norris has a great playoff for Ottawa and then he's off the table. So, there is the chance that no offer for a young center with team control is on the table in any trade.

It's like waiting on EP40 could mean that he plays well enough that Vancouver takes him off of the trade block.

 

[toddkaz]

Past results are not guarantees of future outcomes.

You can wonder IF he could have gotten more if he had waited. That is fair.

But, you cannot say with certainty that he would have gotten a better deal if he had waited.

For instance, if Cozens and Norris didn't move, maybe Norris has a great playoff for Ottawa and then he's off the table. So, there is the chance that no offer for a young center with team control is on the table in any trade.

It's like waiting on EP40 could mean that he plays well enough that Vancouver takes him off of the trade block.

Ok you win, Cozens and a second was the best Adams could do or heck even the new GM if we get one could do for a player made of glass who can't even contribute because he is injured, traded for him injured and has a known injury history and Adams got the absolute maximum value and traded him at the absolute peak time.

That better for you now? At least someone around here still has a great deal of faith in Adams.

You win, no need to continue.

 

[Jim Bob]

Ok you win, Cozens and a second was the best Adams could or heck even the new GM if we get one could do for a player made of glass who can't even contribute because he is injured and Adams got the absolute maximum value and traded him at the absolute peak time.

That better for you now? At least someone around here still has a great deal of faith in Adams.

I did not comment on the trade. I am just saying that you cannot predict the future and say that offers would have gotten better.

And this definitely has zero to do with faith in Adams. It has to do with intellectual honesty.

We have zero way of knowing what offers Adams had for Cozens leading up to the deadline. We definitely have no way of knowing with certainty what offers might have come for Cozens had Adams held onto him.

All we know is the deal that happened.

If Adams had not moved Cozens, in all likelihood, he would still be one of the guys that fans are constantly griping about after games. But, maybe not...

We have no way of knowing what happened in the various alternate timelines...

 

[TehDoak]

I don’t agree that it’s a worse contract, value-wise. I don’t think you can say that if you watch Cozens last like 20 months and say his contract is better value than anyone in the league.

Cozens didn't play well over the last 2 seasons (78 pts in 140 games)

But, Norris played 103 games and scored 63 pts.

So, .55 ppg or .61 ppg and miss 30% of the games. NEITHER have great contracts.

But there is 1 BIG difference.

Cozens doesn't turn 26 until Feb 2027. Meaning that, in the worst case scenario, they could buy him out 1/3 of the remaining contract NEXT year if he bombed.

Norris turns 26 in may. Meaning...he's a 2/3rd buyout starting this summer. So, if Norris bombs, we are stuck with a full buyout.

I get that Norris is a more complete center and player, but...availability is important.

You can say “more expensive” but not worse. I’d argue Norris is the better, more consistent player, offering better value per dollar spent.

.....when he plays.

Don’t really care about this trade but saying Cozens contract is better value is just plain wrong based on every ounce of evidence.

They are both terrible values.

The difference is:

1. You can escape Cozens deal cheaply if he bombs next year
2. Cozens has higher offensive upside. I also think he can learn the defensive aspect of the game with better coaching/veteran support (much like Eichel has become a two way center in Vegas)

 

[toddkaz]

I did not comment on the trade. I am just saying that you cannot predict the future and say that offers would have gotten better.

And this definitely has zero to do with faith in Adams. It has to do with intellectual honesty.

We have zero way of knowing what offers Adams had for Cozens leading up to the deadline. We definitely have no way of knowing with certainty what offers might have come for Cozens had Adams held onto him.

All we know is the deal that happened.

If Adams had not moved Cozens, in all likelihood, he would still be one of the guys that fans are constantly griping about after games. But, maybe not...

We have no way of knowing what happened in the various alternate timelines...

You say you did not comment on the trade?

Norris was probably the best he could do from an NHL player POV. My guess is that most other offers were picks and prospects for Cozens.

This you? This is what you wrote to me.

I said you win, you have a great deal of faith in Adams. You say Norris was the best Adams could do. You are right. A player made out of glass.

I said you win, it was the best Adams could do at the maximum time to make the trade.

No need to keep this top going.

 

[slip]

Who?

Adams.

 

[Ness]

I hope this clown gets roasted by the Buffalo media at his end of year press conference.