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Kevyn Adams GM thread

TehDoak said:
I remember when they drafted Risto and Zadorov in the same draft and one the scouts basically had to talk Pegula into the pick.

Of note....if you REALLY want Adams gone, you root hard for Cozens and Ottawa.

The further Ottawa goes in the playoffs and the better Cozens plays, the worse Adams looks and the louder the drum to jettison Adams gets.
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I think you are putting too much credence in the idea that Pegula actually experiences shame for what he's done to the team or what his GM's have recently done.
 
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Chainshot said:
I think you are putting too much credence in the idea that Pegula actually experiences shame for what he's done to the team or what his GM's have recently done.
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There is a sweet spot after the NFL Draft (end of April) and before training camp (July 15) where the focus will return exclusively to the Sabres. That happens to coincide with the end of the 1st round of the playoffs.

Maybe Terry and Co turning on the TV to see Cozens eliminating the leafs in the playoffs for Ottawa could be the last straw.
 
Tried to figure out what Kevyns contract extension was in 2022 but i dont think it ever got announced in terms of years. I would think it’s up this year or next. If it’s done this year, then i think there’s a real chance he’s gone. If not, i think hes here next year.
 
Not a "keep Adams" post just not sure where to put it





Whoever the next guy is in hope it's not simply because they've been around a while
 
Tatanka said:
Tallon is right. These analytics are not predictive. They are descriptive and I think given more weight than they should.
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Just because some people give them too much weight, or misunderstand them doesn't they should be thrown out entirely
Beerz said:
Good for tracking a whole teams dynamics in certain areas.... pretty trash to look at these charts and determine an individuals worth.
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There is an enormous gap between knowing what expected goals means and determining players' values based on twitter charts. Its not one or the other
 
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jc17 said:
Just because some people give them too much weight, or misunderstand them doesn't they should be thrown out entirely


There is an enormous gap between knowing what expected goals means and determining players' values based on twitter charts. Its not one or the other
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Chad D's rant on this at the end of today's xB pod was spot on.

We are long past either/or when it comes to using advanced stats vs the eye test. Every NHL team uses both analytics and scouts to determine the moves they want to make.
 
jc17 said:
Just because some people give them too much weight, or misunderstand them doesn't they should be thrown out entirely


There is an enormous gap between knowing what expected goals means and determining players' values based on twitter charts. Its not one or the other
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I mean it is pretty clear he knows what expected goals is... he is mocking the process.
 
Beerz said:
I mean it is pretty clear he knows what expected goals is... he is mocking the process.
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I think he understands at a very basic level and probably chooses not to dig deeper because his mind is made up.

These guys exist and I don't want an executive like that
 
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Jim Bob said:
Chad D's rant on this at the end of today's xB pod was spot on.

We are long past either/or when it comes to using advanced stats vs the eye test. Every NHL team uses both analytics and scouts to determine the moves they want to make.
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But clearly there are still those that are pretty opposed to the use of analytics.

I wouldn't advocate to necessarily make a nerd the GM, like in carolina, but I certainly want someone who can see the potential for some value, and not dismiss it.
 
jc17 said:
Not a "keep Adams" post just not sure where to put it





Whoever the next guy is in hope it's not simply because they've been around a while
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Tallon is too old at this point (74) to be a full time GM so its a moot point....but the idea you'd reject someone who build the core of a multi championship team in Chicago and last years cup team in Florida because they aren't analytic focused is silly.

Analytics are just another tool. Adams built out what many considered an exemplary analytics department and it hasn't done anything.

After years of GMs who haven't built anything at the NHL level (or at all), give me a GM who knows how to build a team first....I don't care what tools he does or doesn't use.
 
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Beerz said:
Good for tracking a whole teams dynamics in certain areas.... pretty trash to look at these charts and determine an individuals worth.
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I think analytics are good for when it comes time to pair teammates together. With defense you can see who pairs best together and what situations.

just my two cents. I don't think I would use them like "Moneyball"
 
TehDoak said:
Tallon is too old at this point (74) to be a full time GM so its a moot point....but the idea you'd reject someone who build the core of a multi championship team in Chicago and last years cup team in Florida because they aren't analytic focused is silly.

Analytics are just another tool. Adams built out what many considered an exemplary analytics department and it hasn't done anything.

After years of GMs who haven't built anything at the NHL level (or at all), give me a GM who knows how to build a team first....I don't care what tools he does or doesn't use.
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Having an analytic department is one thing. Ignoring the statistics and continuing to put the same shitty players on the ice like Buffalo does is another.

I hate to keep harping on Bryson(not really)Whats the point of advanced statistics if you keep putting the guy out on the ice.


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TehDoak said:
Tallon is too old at this point (74) to be a full time GM so its a moot point....but the idea you'd reject someone who build the core of a multi championship team in Chicago and last years cup team in Florida because they aren't analytic focused is silly.

Analytics are just another tool. Adams built out what many considered an exemplary analytics department and it hasn't done anything.

After years of GMs who haven't built anything at the NHL level (or at all), give me a GM who knows how to build a team first....I don't care what tools he does or doesn't use.
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Does anyone outside of the Sabres fandom bubble consider their analytics department to be exemplary?

There's a handful of puff pieces out there about the department built under Adams, but it seems more that the Sabres didn't really have an analytics department prior to 2021. And according to these puff pieces they spend 90% of their time building models to project draft eligible players. Where's the time spent building models on pro players to scout? Where's the time time spent providing feedback on the teams own players?

It sounds like we have an amateur scouting analytics department, but otherwise they don't do much else. And what off the board picks have they had us make?

2021 Power consensus #1, drafted #1
2021 Rosesn consensus #19, drafted #14

2022 Savoie consensus #7, drafted #9
2022 Ostlund consensus #24, drafted #16
2022 Kulich consensus #19, drafted #28

2023 Benson consensus #6, drafted #13

2024 Helenius consensus #11, drafted #14

These were all choices that could have been made using publicly available rankings. No scouting or analytics required.
 
BFLO said:
Does anyone outside of the Sabres fandom bubble consider their analytics department to be exemplary?

There's a handful of puff pieces out there about the department built under Adams, but it seems more that the Sabres didn't really have an analytics department prior to 2021. And according to these puff pieces they spend 90% of their time building models to project draft eligible players. Where's the time spent building models on pro players to scout? Where's the time time spent providing feedback on the teams own players?

It sounds like we have an amateur scouting analytics department, but otherwise they don't do much else. And what off the board picks have they had us make?

2021 Power consensus #1, drafted #1
2021 Rosesn consensus #19, drafted #14

2022 Savoie consensus #7, drafted #9
2022 Ostlund consensus #24, drafted #16
2022 Kulich consensus #19, drafted #28

2023 Benson consensus #6, drafted #13

2024 Helenius consensus #11, drafted #14

These were all choices that could have been made using publicly available rankings. No scouting or analytics required.
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I mean, I was going simply by the twitter stat heads excitement based on the names when it was created. No idea on how well it actually works in practice. There certainly haven't been any examples of them hitting based on numbers. Maybe McCleod?
 
BFLO said:
Does anyone outside of the Sabres fandom bubble consider their analytics department to be exemplary?

There's a handful of puff pieces out there about the department built under Adams, but it seems more that the Sabres didn't really have an analytics department prior to 2021. And according to these puff pieces they spend 90% of their time building models to project draft eligible players. Where's the time spent building models on pro players to scout? Where's the time time spent providing feedback on the teams own players?

It sounds like we have an amateur scouting analytics department, but otherwise they don't do much else. And what off the board picks have they had us make?

2021 Power consensus #1, drafted #1
2021 Rosesn consensus #19, drafted #14

2022 Savoie consensus #7, drafted #9
2022 Ostlund consensus #24, drafted #16
2022 Kulich consensus #19, drafted #28

2023 Benson consensus #6, drafted #13

2024 Helenius consensus #11, drafted #14

These were all choices that could have been made using publicly available rankings. No scouting or analytics required.
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Toughness doesn't seem to play a role in analytics. It would explain their drafting.
 
toddkaz said:
Hard to believe Norris was the best we could do and we had to give up a 2nd round pick too.

Cozens has 6 points in 7 games. The trade should have happened in the off season when teams are more willing to trade.

Adams is garbage
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Norris was probably the best he could do from an NHL player POV.

My guess is that most other offers were picks and prospects for Cozens.

Waiting may not have helped much if he continued to hold out for a hockey deal and not just moving Cozens for a futures package.

And if he had held onto Cozens past the deadline and he continued to stagnate here, people would be complaining about why did Adams move him at the deadline with all the interest in Cozens...
 
Jim Bob said:
Norris was probably the best he could do from an NHL player POV.

My guess is that most other offers were picks and prospects for Cozens.

Waiting may not have helped much if he continued to hold out for a hockey deal and not just moving Cozens for a futures package.

And if he had held onto Cozens past the deadline and he continued to stagnate here, people would be complaining about why did Adams move him at the deadlinewith all the interest in Cozens...
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Of course waiting helps...Every bubble playoff team wont make trades that jepardize their chances, teams aren't going to make major moves like that.

In June/July/Draft you have a bigger opportunity to make something happen. Not sure why you can't see more teams would be interested.

Teams who didn't make the playoffs, bubble teams, teams who got booted in the first round might want to make changes, GMs and Coaches fired new management want to make changes.

We traded for a guy who can't even play because he is injured and added a 2nd.
 
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