Kevyn Adams GM thread

[Jacob582]

I see a trend. When we like a player aquisition/move from the summer we give credit to Lindy. When we don't, we blame Kevyn.

 

[toddkaz]

I see a trend. When we like a player aquisition/move from the summer we give credit to Lindy. When we don't, we blame Kevyn.

I like the players Adams acquired. I don't like the prices he paid and unfortunately they haven't helped improve the team.

Adams has been incapable of getting this team to the playoffs.

Adams has had 5 years to acquire the right players to gel together and get to the playoffs.

 

[TehDoak]

Honestly, let's have a frank discussion here.

Terry Pegula is 73 years old. Typically, its rare for people to get LESS stubborn as they get older.

For significant changes to happen other than Adams getting canned and Terry finding another 1st time GM to come in and hope it works out, there has to be a realization by the Terry specifically that his way isn't the best way.

Think about what they have tried:

Hired former players to help, didn't work.

Hired someone with a hyper aggressive approach (Murray), didn't work
Hired a more traditional experience and patient approach (Botterill), didn't work
Hired someone with no experience but he personally trusted, hasn't worked.

The common thread here is him. Whatever level of interaction with the GMs, however much he is doing, whether its very little or as much as we all suspect, it needs to stop.

Until either we get someone in here who he trusts and can manage the Pegulas and successfully manage the team like Beane does or terry decides to run his team differently then we will see more of the same.

 

[sabremike]

I'm just thrilled Kevyn now has that coveted injury excuse to save his job after another season of failure. Must be nice to avoid suffering consequences for failure resulting from one's own incompetence.

 

[Ace]

Didn't Terry feel scorned that outsider's told him to pick coaches/GM's? Thought I read that somewhere

Shouldn’t he feel burned by his own hire who is staring down the bullet on owning over 1/3rd of the drought with no plan?

Honestly, let's have a frank discussion here.

Terry Pegula is 73 years old. Typically, its rare for people to get LESS stubborn as they get older.

For significant changes to happen other than Adams getting canned and Terry finding another 1st time GM to come in and hope it works out, there has to be a realization by the Terry specifically that his way isn't the best way.

Think about what they have tried:

Hired former players to help, didn't work.

Hired someone with a hyper aggressive approach (Murray), didn't work
Hired a more traditional experience and patient approach (Botterill), didn't work
Hired someone with no experience but he personally trusted, hasn't worked.

The common thread here is him. Whatever level of interaction with the GMs, however much he is doing, whether its very little or as much as we all suspect, it needs to stop.

Until either we get someone in here who he trusts and can manage the Pegulas and successfully manage the team like Beane does or terry decides to run his team differently then we will see more of the same.

He needs to be inceptioned into believing it was his idea to get out of the way, hire an accomplished hockey man, and to give him the resources he needs.

 

[Fjordy]

I see a trend. When we like a player aquisition/move from the summer we give credit to Lindy. When we don't, we blame Kevyn.

Who said that? Adams made some good trades this offseason, but like last year and the year before, he made NO other key signings. No top 4 RD, no top 6 F. Ruff has limited resources and an unbalanced roster, as well as the youngest team.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

Adams gone soon ?

 

[TageGod]

Adams gone soon ?

No.

 

[May Day 10]

He needs to be inceptioned into believing it was his idea to get out of the way, hire an accomplished hockey man, and to give him the resources he needs.

Pretty much
He and Kim believe they have some sort of other-worldly skill to judge people on their authenticity as well as if they would make a great employee. The wealth that Terry amassed emboldened them into thinking they are right near 100% of the time.

They have been burned so many times by what in reality is their awful judgement. Tons of dysfunction at the top of the business side of all their sports ventures.

We are stuck with all of Terry's discoveries and he is going to ride them out. Adams, Ellis, Appert are at the tip of the spear. The new nobody they hired in Rochester and Adam Mair are next in line. The front office is littered with people who would not be interviewed for a lateral move if they were fired tomorrow. But they "communicate" well or speak like a fake six sigma grad. Hearing pegulas most recent public comments (he hides now), when he hired adams, he seems to blame and lot of the failing in changes made (which were necessary and a result of bad hiring, ownership, and management). Pegula doesn't think it's his fault. It's the impatient fans and those mean writers who used to be at the Buffalo news.

So pegula needs to read a book that somehow tells him that successful people hire the best manager money can buy, provide resources, and get out of the way.

 

[truthbluth]

So pegula needs to read a book that somehow tells him that successful people hire the best manager money can buy, provide resources, and get out of the way.

No argument on the general approach. But hiring expensive GMs is not a recipe for success.
Highest paid nhl GMs

 

[Fjordy]

No argument on the general approach. But hiring expensive GMs is not a recipe for success.
Highest paid nhl GMs

There are a lot of good GMs here, whose teams regularly play in the playoffs and even win the cup.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a GM who already has experience as a GM, but then there should be an experienced person above him as a POHO or advisor who will find us such a GM.

 

[Djp]

I'm just thrilled Kevyn now has that coveted injury excuse to save his job after another season of failure. Must be nice to avoid suffering consequences for failure resulting from one's own incompetence.

20/21 = 12/13 try to compete , fire coach
21/22 = 13/14 rebuild begins
22/23 = 14/15 rebuild continues
23/24 = 15/16 try to compete
24/25 = 16/17 you hope to improve
25/26 = 17/18 hope for playoffs

Anaheim beat Dallas and San Jose beat Detroit last night. There are no easy opponents in this league.

There never h as s been any walkover. Every team has some talent and can have hot days on PP or hot goalie

 

[May Day 10]

No argument on the general approach. But hiring expensive GMs is not a recipe for success.
Highest paid nhl GMs

I contend that this organization is so far gone, the moves made need to be well beyond General Manager.

This franchise/org has been stuck in a rut since (and including ) the Rigas ownership. It has been highly nepotistic, slow to change, and shielded/protected by the various ownership groups who have come and gone.

I think that was a huge part of the reason that Pegula was cheered like a conquering hero when he came in. We all thought it was finally time for the stagnation to finally break here. Then came 'he aint going nowhere'. Its actually very fitting that Lindy Ruff is the Sabres' head coach.

Its year 14 of this, but it is really year 24. We had the blip of 05-07, Ryan Miller playing like a god in 2010 for his olympic run. That's it.


So they need someone to go in and basically build the organization and set all aspects of it to bring this franchise back into the NHL. Every single detail needs to be addressed.

 

[TehDoak]

I contend that this organization is so far gone, the moves made need to be well beyond General Manager.

This franchise/org has been stuck in a rut since the Rigas ownership. It has been highly nepotistic, slow to change, and shielded/protected by the various ownership groups who have come and gone.

I think that was a huge part of the reason that Pegula was cheered like a conquering hero when he came in. We all thought it was finally time for the stagnation to finally break here. Then came 'he aint going nowhere'. Its actually very fitting that Lindy Ruff is the Sabres' head coach.

Its year 14 of this, but it is really year 24. We had the blip of 05-07, Ryan Miller playing like a god in 2010 for his olympic run. That's it.


So they need someone to go in and basically build the organization and set all aspects of it to bring this franchise back into the NHL. Every single detail needs to be addressed.

Let's not pine for the Rigas days. You seem to forget they made mike Peca sit out an entire season even though they supposedly were offered Iginla for Peca. They did it to send a message about what would happen if you held out...in the middle of Hasek's prime.

It pissed Hasek off so much he demanded a trade....and told them if they got too much in return he would rather retire.

And this was before he got hauled off in handcuffs leaving the Sabres on the verge of being relocated.

 

[May Day 10]

Let's not pine for the Rigas days. You seem to forget they made mike Peca sit out an entire season even though they supposedly were offered Iginla for Peca. They did it to send a message about what would happen if you held out...in the middle of Hasek's prime.

It pissed Hasek off so much he demanded a trade....and told them if they got too much in return he would rather retire.

And this was before he got hauled off in handcuffs leaving the Sabres on the verge of being relocated.

I include the Rigas days in that. "Since the Rigas ownership" includes the Rigas ownership.

The last time the Sabres were really serious in winning the cup (over personal ego or cost concerns, etc) was when they handed the steering wheel to John Muckler.

Luckily, we got to ride the wave of the Muckler years, as well as Hasek until Kaspairitis scored in overtime in the Spring of 2001.

 

[sabremike]

Let's not pine for the Rigas days. You seem to forget they made mike Peca sit out an entire season even though they supposedly were offered Iginla for Peca. They did it to send a message about what would happen if you held out...in the middle of Hasek's prime.

It pissed Hasek off so much he demanded a trade....and told them if they got too much in return he would rather retire.

And this was before he got hauled off in handcuffs leaving the Sabres on the verge of being relocated.

It's actually impressive in a perverse way that Pegula has somehow managed to become more poorly thought of among fans than people who pulled off the biggest financial crime in US history and came thisclose to outright killing the franchise.

 

[toddkaz]

I still don't understand whats the guy waiting for? We been open for business for 2 years.

 

[Fjordy]

I still don't understand whats the guy waiting for? We been open for business for 2 years.

Maybe no one wants to trade with Adams? Only if the offer is really good. There were rumors that other GMs don't like Adams because he's a tightwad. Maybe he just calls all the GMs and just chats and then never comes back.

 

[TehDoak]

I still don't understand whats the guy waiting for? We been open for business for 2 years.

Maybe no one wants to trade with Adams? Only if the offer is really good. There were rumors that other GMs don't like Adams because he's a tightwad. Maybe he just calls all the GMs and just chats and then never comes back.

I see 3 reasons as to why he hasn't been able to make trades, and this is being from someone who has never been adjacent to a front office.

1) I think Adams being unwilling to help teams while he sat on a pile of cap space for 3 years running probably hurt his relationships with a lot of GM. He's a guy who wasn't part of a front office ever, he had a team that is rebuilding, and he was unwilling to ever help even by paper transactions that cost him very little. There is an old poker saying in that 'you gotta give action to get action', and I think Adams gave very little.

2) Obviously NMC/NTCs don't help. Having cap space doesn't matter if guys even with limited NTCs don't want to play here. I think the Eichel situation and how the media framed it didn't help either. Wouldn't let even a super star get the medical procedure he wanted and then made him miss half a season.

3) Finally, It's been overvaluing "his" guys and being unwilling to move picks (by his own admission he never considered moving a 1st round pick until this year).

Overall, to be frank, its been a complete lack of experience in how to be a GM, especially when it comes to the transactional nature of the job. It really is an old boy network. You got a bunch of guys who came up in the league on different teams, having beers on the road together, sitting in bad games scouting together for different teams, who have done draft weekend, probably play golf together in the summer.

Even ex players who become GMs typically have a bit of an internship where they are mentored in the finer points and network. And when former players are hired, they typically have AGMs/Advisors who were Ex GMs or at the very least a team president to make some of the bigger decisions. Adams has had no one around him that has sat in the chair and done the deals.

Adams has been setup to fail from the start. Its a job he wasn't qualified for with no support system to speak of in a market no one wants to play in and handcuffed financially. As I've said before, this isn't a fake it till you make it job. This is a career capstone job that guys work for decades to get. Adams paid zero dues to get here and we as the fans have to suffer for it.

 

[Fjordy]

I see 3 reasons as to why he hasn't been able to make trades, and this is being from someone who has never been adjacent to a front office.

1) I think Adams being unwilling to help teams while he sat on a pile of cap space for 3 years running probably hurt his relationships with a lot of GM. He's a guy who wasn't part of a front office ever, he had a team that is rebuilding, and he was unwilling to ever help even by paper transactions that cost him very little. There is an old poker saying in that 'you gotta give action to get action', and I think Adams gave very little.

2) Obviously NMC/NTCs don't help. Having cap space doesn't matter if guys even with limited NTCs don't want to play here. I think the Eichel situation and how the media framed it didn't help either. Wouldn't let even a super star get the medical procedure he wanted and then made him miss half a season.

3) Finally, It's been overvaluing "his" guys and being unwilling to move picks (by his own admission he never considered moving a 1st round pick until this year).

Overall, to be frank, its been a complete lack of experience in how to be a GM, especially when it comes to the transactional nature of the job. It really is an old boy network. You got a bunch of guys who came up in the league on different teams, having beers on the road together, sitting in bad games scouting together for different teams, who have done draft weekend, probably play golf together in the summer.

Even ex players who become GMs typically have a bit of an internship where they are mentored in the finer points and network. And when former players are hired, they typically have AGMs/Advisors who were Ex GMs or at the very least a team president to make some of the bigger decisions. Adams has had no one around him that has sat in the chair and done the deals.

Adams has been setup to fail from the start. Its a job he wasn't qualified for with no support system to speak of in a market no one wants to play in and handcuffed financially. As I've said before, this isn't a fake it till you make it job. This is a career capstone job that guys work for decades to get. Adams paid zero dues to get here and we as the fans have to suffer for it.

Well, there are teams in rebuilding mode, and a lot of players without trade protection. I don't think Adams has managed to ruin his relationship with all the GMs. It's just a matter of doing, not talking. We have assets, and other GMs, even those teams that are in the win mode and buyers, will still agree to a profitable deal, because they are smart.

 

[Zman5778]

I see 3 reasons as to why he hasn't been able to make trades, and this is being from someone who has never been adjacent to a front office.

1) I think Adams being unwilling to help teams while he sat on a pile of cap space for 3 years running probably hurt his relationships with a lot of GM. He's a guy who wasn't part of a front office ever, he had a team that is rebuilding, and he was unwilling to ever help even by paper transactions that cost him very little. There is an old poker saying in that 'you gotta give action to get action', and I think Adams gave very little.

2) Obviously NMC/NTCs don't help. Having cap space doesn't matter if guys even with limited NTCs don't want to play here. I think the Eichel situation and how the media framed it didn't help either. Wouldn't let even a super star get the medical procedure he wanted and then made him miss half a season.

3) Finally, It's been overvaluing "his" guys and being unwilling to move picks (by his own admission he never considered moving a 1st round pick until this year).

Overall, to be frank, its been a complete lack of experience in how to be a GM, especially when it comes to the transactional nature of the job. It really is an old boy network. You got a bunch of guys who came up in the league on different teams, having beers on the road together, sitting in bad games scouting together for different teams, who have done draft weekend, probably play golf together in the summer.

Even ex players who become GMs typically have a bit of an internship where they are mentored in the finer points and network. And when former players are hired, they typically have AGMs/Advisors who were Ex GMs or at the very least a team president to make some of the bigger decisions. Adams has had no one around him that has sat in the chair and done the deals.

Adams has been setup to fail from the start. Its a job he wasn't qualified for with no support system to speak of in a market no one wants to play in and handcuffed financially. As I've said before, this isn't a fake it till you make it job. This is a career capstone job that guys work for decades to get. Adams paid zero dues to get here and we as the fans have to suffer for it.

I tend to think that your reasons 2 and 3 have a much larger impact on things than number 1. It's certainly been reported ad nauseum how there have been deals "done" for Brett Pesce and Matt Murray.....but that neither player would waive to come here.

And I do think that #3 does play directly into #1 -- I'm sure that there are some GMs out there who are frustrated that Kevyn seems to be stubbornly hanging on to "his" guys.

And as far as the cap space thing goes -- I'm pretty sure that that is more a function of Bill Guerin torpedoing the value of cap space a couple of years ago when he would take on millions for like a 5th round pick. He had made many statements that he was more than willing to help deals get done, as long as the Sabres were getting some value back....and Guerin killed the value of such deals.