Kevyn Adams GM thread

[OkimLom]

To be fair, I think last offseason was the first one where I feel like Adams was too patient and there were missed opportunities to shift gears from waiting and seeing to making meaningful moves to reshape the roster and shore up areas of need.

And yes, a lot of the moves he made this year were due to inactivity last offseason and the Mitts-Byram deal.

And that's fine, but where I took issue, was about not judging Adams the years prior. I disagree with that idea.

As for Adams tenure, I didn't like AT all how Adams handled the goaltending position throughout his timeline here. I didn't agree nor liked how he gifted spots to selected prospects where I feel role players would've been the wiser investment in building a foundation of winning, especially when winning took a backseat and he continued that, and now we have a defense top 4 that is void of any sort of veteran leadership, which the young the players could've benefited from having.

 

[Dreakon13]

The issue is, the problem was never the core players (well, minus Risto), it was the surrounding cast that was the problem.

The inability for ownership to get a competent GM who could build around the talented core built by several last place finishes has been the issue. Of the 3 Gms who have been best at team building, Murray comes in 1st by quite a bit....and he was pretty bad at it. But no one has added more talent to the roster than he did over a short period of time. O'Reilly/Lehner/Kane in, essentially, a single offseason (though Kane was at the trade deadline). By comparison, Adams, in 4 years post Eichel trade, has added 0 top six forwards, 1 top 4 d-man (Byram), and 0 starting goalies.

All of those players, became the players they are today, being traded to teams that already had the surrounding cast in place.

I think what we're doing now is building that surrounding cast. They're taking a chance I guess on Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Quinn, Peterka progressing (or at least not regressing any further)... but the idea is this group with competent coaching and a revamped bottom 6 with an identity becomes that modestly built team that's good enough to make the playoffs but not get much further, and just needs to pluck that ROR or Eichel or Reinhart from a bottom feeder fallen on hard times, like other teams did to us.

EDIT: I figure the response to this will be "so we traded ROR and Eichel and Reinhart just to need to get a new ROR or Eichel or Reinhart again later". Yeah... those trades were instrumental to this.

 

[TageGod]

All of those players, became the players they are today, being traded to teams that already had the surrounding cast in place.

I think what we're doing now is building that surrounding cast. They're taking a chance I guess on Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Quinn, Peterka progressing (or at least not regressing any further)... but the idea is this group with competent coaching and a revamped bottom 6 with an identity becomes that modestly built team that's good enough to make the playoffs but not get much further, and just needs to pluck that ROR or Eichel or Reinhart from a bottom feeder fallen on hard times, like other teams did to us.

EDIT: I figure the response to this will be "so we traded ROR and Eichel and Reinhart just to need to get a new ROR or Eichel or Reinhart again later". Yeah... those trades were instrumental to this.

I mean we COULD have re-acquired them back

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

He is building the roster
If he wins and they make playoff then he is food

If they don’t then it sucks

 

[Moncton man]

Good deals for Malenstyn and UPL. Adams continues to do good things. Let’s hope he continues to grow as a GM

 

[Chainshot]

Okay, didn't do anything silly with the arbitration cases and didn't repeat the circumstances of Ullmark's departure...

Now it's down to Krebs' deal and if there is any major addition they can make (unlikely) before the start of the season.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Two sensible deals. Avoided any drama. I can't imagine signing Krebs will be an issue, if that's the plan.

Kevyn's had a good summer so far. Hopefully I can say the same in early December.

 

[HOOats]

Adams more or less calling the "internal cap" crowd delusional at his presser just now.

Now comes the question - do they just think he's an unrepentant liar?

 

[TehDoak]

Adams more or less calling the "internal cap" crowd delusional at his presser just now.

Now comes the question - do they just think he's an unrepentant liar?

Oh boy, I wasn't going to watch this (he typically talks a lot and says nothing so its not worth even tuning in), but now....

Excuse me.

 

[MOGlLNY]

The reasoning also makes no sense.

If I was the owner of the Sabres and my GM had 7 million in cap space in a must win season I'd tell him to get his f***ing ass in gear.

 

[TehDoak]

Well, I watched through the part where he talks about the cap. Essentially, repeating the same things he's said

- Says he has to save cap space for next year (which, to anyone who has done the math, isn't true) With Zucker on a 1 year deal, you can easily spend the rest of it to the cap on a long term deal and be fine.
- Claims ownership has never set a limit and has provided 'every resource possible', which I think is very carefully chosen words by Adams. if you added 'within the budget' to the end of either of those, it would probably be the actual truth.

The reality is...the Sabres do bleed money. The Sabres do have a budget. Adams will never utter the 'b' word, because it implies the ownership is limiting resources. This isn't a secret, even though Adams never says it. He was hired to be 'economic, effective, and efficient' from the Owners mouth. He's been economic so far, though, he certainly hasn't increased revenue, he's limited spend.

- The real delusion is Adams said he feels his roster is on par with the top teams in the division. That is frankly simply not true. The top end talent isn't here. I don't think he's being disingenuous, I simply think Adams is incapable of being impartial when it comes to the team. He believes in 'his guys'. Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Quinn and Peterka, UPL, and Levi are 'his guys'. Its not good for a GM to have a fanatical devotion to a core group of guys who haven't achieved anything.

One other note, Adams is so proud of his 4th line retool. He was almost beaming talking about the Malenstyn trade.

To our front office (except the 'i love you part')

 

[sabremike]

Publicly taking shots at the agent of one of your key UFA's this coming offseson was certainly a choice.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Well, I watched through the part where he talks about the cap. Essentially, repeating the same things he's said

- Says he has to save cap space for next year (which, to anyone who has done the math, isn't true) With Zucker on a 1 year deal, you can easily spend the rest of it to the cap on a long term deal and be fine.
- Claims ownership has never set a limit and has provided 'every resource possible', which I think is very carefully chosen words by Adams. if you added 'within the budget' to the end of either of those, it would probably be the actual truth.

The reality is...the Sabres do bleed money. The Sabres do have a budget. Adams will never utter the 'b' word, because it implies the ownership is limiting resources. This isn't a secret, even though Adams never says it. He was hired to be 'economic, effective, and efficient' from the Owners mouth. He's been economic so far, though, he certainly hasn't increased revenue, he's limited spend.

- The real delusion is Adams said he feels his roster is on par with the top teams in the division. That is frankly simply not true. The top end talent isn't here. I don't think he's being disingenuous, I simply think Adams is incapable of being impartial when it comes to the team. He believes in 'his guys'. Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Quinn and Peterka, UPL, and Levi are 'his guys'. Its not good for a GM to have a fanatical devotion to a core group of guys who haven't achieved anything.

I’ve seen plenty of unbiased, smart hockey people from outside Buffalo say that Buffalo does indeed have enough talent, and enough high end talent, so I don’t think the jury is out on that part yet. He could end up being correct, and it shouldn’t be shocking since it’s a team that is literally almost 100% first round picks.

 

[toddkaz]

The reasoning also makes no sense.

If I was the owner of the Sabres and my GM had 7 million in cap space in a must win season I'd tell him to get his f***ing ass in gear.

Waiting for the "No trades are being made right now" crowd and the "Well other GMs didn't make trades" crowd along with the "What players that were traded you want the sabres GM to get" crowd to come out.

I say the same thing about Kevyn getting off his ass and getting a player but these are the responses I always get.

Funny, those responses never seem to save a GM from getting fired.

 

[TehDoak]

I’ve seen plenty of unbiased, smart hockey people from outside Buffalo say that Buffalo does indeed have enough talent, and enough high end talent, so I don’t think the jury is out on that part yet. He could end up being correct, and it shouldn’t be shocking since it’s a team that is literally almost 100% first round picks.

This is probably a conversation for the roster thread...but, to be honest...the talent is not there to be competitive in this division nor to really win a playoff round where we will be seeded if we make it.

Tage Thompson is a 95 pt forward.....if he is playing within a system with no defensive responsibility. Within any sort of 'system', his high end is 80ish pts if the power play is functional. He's not Auston Matthews. I wouldn't rank him higher than Stuzle or Point either within the division.

Alex Tuch is a 2nd line winger on a good team. He defaults to a top line winger here because we simply do not have anyone else. He is not Pastranak, Kucherov, Tckchuck (either of them), Reinhart, Marner, Nylander, Guetzel, Marchand all top line wingers on other teams in our division.
Cozens is not a top line center. Quinn/Peterka are not top line wingers.

So, we have a mid range top line center, and a lot of 2nd line forwards rotating into the top line.

We do have a true #1 elite d-man in Dahlin.

The. rest of the team are 2nd/3rd pair d-men. Power maybe becomes a top pair d-man as well, but until he takes that step...I think its safe to keep him on the 2nd pair evaluation.

We have an average NHL starter in UPL.

Overall, this is a an average NHL team that can make the playoffs if things bounce right. The lack of truly high end elite talent is a limiting factor. If we were very well run, I'd say our upside is the hurricanes where they have depth of talent but not elite talent. But the reality is, we are not well run. We're the Blue Jackets, we're going to cycle between being bad and being medicore, with maybe a playoff berth or two when we are medicore when things break right. Right now, we're in the mediocre part of our cycle.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

This is probably a conversation for the roster thread...but, to be honest...the talent is not there to be competitive in this division nor to really win a playoff round where we will be seeded if we make it.

Tage Thompson is a 95 pt forward.....if he is playing within a system with no defensive responsibility. Within any sort of 'system', his high end is 80ish pts if the power play is functional. He's not Auston Matthews. I wouldn't rank him higher than Stuzle or Point either within the division.

Alex Tuch is a 2nd line winger on a good team. He defaults to a top line winger here because we simply do not have anyone else. He is not Pastranak, Kucherov, Tckchuck (either of them), Reinhart, Marner, Nylander, Guetzel, Marchand all top line wingers on other teams in our division.
Cozens is not a top line center. Quinn/Peterka are not top line wingers.

So, we have a mid range top line center, and a lot of 2nd line forwards rotating into the top line.

We do have a true #1 elite d-man in Dahlin.

The. rest of the team are 2nd/3rd pair d-men. Power maybe becomes a top pair d-man as well, but until he takes that step...I think its safe to keep him on the 2nd pair evaluation.

We have an average NHL starter in UPL.

Overall, this is a an average NHL team that can make the playoffs if things bounce right. The lack of truly high end elite talent is a limiting factor. If we were very well run, I'd say our upside is the hurricanes where they have depth of talent but not elite talent. But the reality is, we are not well run. We're the Blue Jackets, we're going to cycle between being bad and being medicore, with maybe a playoff berth or two when we are medicore when things break right. Right now, we're in the mediocre part of our cycle.

It’s a small market team, this is basically all you can hope for. What you describe is a better position than we’ve been in since Miller left, so it’s probably a good thing.

The Sabres are never going to be true Stanley Cup contenders - at best, they’ll be a team that can make the playoffs when they have a good season and good luck, and they can hope for a miracle run if they do make it. But I don’t think any small market team is ever going to be a perennially feared playoff matchup.

Even with Hasek, we needed a lot of other things to go our way, and we still didn’t make a ton of noise.

 

[TehDoak]

It’s a small market team, this is basically all you can hope for. What you describe is a better position than we’ve been in since Miller left, so it’s probably a good thing.

The Sabres are never going to be true Stanley Cup contenders - at best, they’ll be a team that can make the playoffs when they have a good season and good luck, and they can hope for a miracle run if they do make it. But I don’t think any small market team is ever going to be a perennially feared playoff matchup.

Big markets are going to have baked in advantages.

But Buffalo is on par with Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Pittsburgh, SLC, Minnesota, Carolina, Washington, Ottawa, in market size.

Usually the differentiator between small market teams who become contenders and small market teams who are on the 'bad cycle' is top end talent. Pittsburgh getting Malkin/Crosby. Washington getting Ovechkin/Backstrom, Edmonton getting McDavid.

We can say a lot of bad things about Murray as a GM, he certainly had his warts, but as the very core, he was right. You have to get that top end talent. And he did. But...the team was run so poorly for so long, it drove the top end talent away. Part of that was the aggressive tear down that broke parts of the organization. And we are still feeling the echos of that. But, Murray was right. You can't win in a small market like Buffalo without getting elite talent at the top of the draft.

Due to the prolonged playoff drought, we have to aim for the medicore middle. The goal of the team isn't to win a cup right now, it's to not be in the bottom half of the league. And maybe stay in that 2nd quarter of teams for a few years. And that is hard when you don't have the top end talent.

But to succeed without relying on draft lotto luck on being bad at the right time and winning the lotto.....you need a top notch front office that can find competitive advantages when you can't attract free agents and are on every NTC. You need a guy who can make hard decisions. Adams isn't that guy. He simply isn't.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Adams | Training Camp | Buffalo Sabres

Kevyn Adams addresses the media

www.nhl.com

 

[Ace]

He’s reverted back to the company line and there is no more need of his services here. You don’t spend because you haven’t found the right opportunity? You’ve been at or near the bottom of the league in spending for four years. If it was true that there are no limitations you just fired yourself. Because no limitations and no results doesn’t get a sixth off-season. The two concepts can’t exist in the same space. There isn’t a scenario where you can keep failing and keep the job if there are no restrictions on what you do. Only way that works is if you’re doing exactly as directed with what’s more important to ownership than winning.

You could have signed anyone to a f***ing five year deal at the start of this series of bullshit lies and never touched your precious future cap.

And spare me the “have to pay guys in the future” line. You’ve been selling it for years. And you bought out a player you could have fit under the cap to take on empty cap hits WHEN YOU NEED TO PAY THOSE PLAYERS. If your best reason is incompetence you have to go.

And I really don’t want to hear the “they can make moves in season” from anyone. The year we missed by a point we spent the least in the league, had Dahlin, Power, Tage and Cozens making like 10 million combined…and your in season moves were RILEY STILLMAN AND JORDAN GREENWAY.

I stopped believing in this unqualified used car salesman years ago. He’s still trying to sell you the same f***ing lemon.

Even if you somehow believe in this “plan”…the endgame is to never improve the team in a meaningful way so that he can keep the same roster that isn’t good enough to make the playoffs longer.

Only…that’s not even true, is it? That’s actually a better scenario than reality. Because he replaced Skinner with dead cap and sold low on Mittelstadt. Both moves saved money. And, because he’s lying about the internal cap, saved his job too.

 

[TageGod]

This is probably a conversation for the roster thread...but, to be honest...the talent is not there to be competitive in this division nor to really win a playoff round where we will be seeded if we make it.

Tage Thompson is a 95 pt forward.....if he is playing within a system with no defensive responsibility. Within any sort of 'system', his high end is 80ish pts if the power play is functional. He's not Auston Matthews. I wouldn't rank him higher than Stuzle or Point either within the division.

Alex Tuch is a 2nd line winger on a good team. He defaults to a top line winger here because we simply do not have anyone else. He is not Pastranak, Kucherov, Tckchuck (either of them), Reinhart, Marner, Nylander, Guetzel, Marchand all top line wingers on other teams in our division.
Cozens is not a top line center. Quinn/Peterka are not top line wingers.

So, we have a mid range top line center, and a lot of 2nd line forwards rotating into the top line.

We do have a true #1 elite d-man in Dahlin.

The. rest of the team are 2nd/3rd pair d-men. Power maybe becomes a top pair d-man as well, but until he takes that step...I think its safe to keep him on the 2nd pair evaluation.

We have an average NHL starter in UPL.

Overall, this is a an average NHL team that can make the playoffs if things bounce right. The lack of truly high end elite talent is a limiting factor. If we were very well run, I'd say our upside is the hurricanes where they have depth of talent but not elite talent. But the reality is, we are not well run. We're the Blue Jackets, we're going to cycle between being bad and being medicore, with maybe a playoff berth or two when we are medicore when things break right. Right now, we're in the mediocre part of our cycle.

You don't have any actual idea what Tage is in a different system. Cozens is a 2C/W. Quinn and Peterka 100% are capable of being 1st line fowards. You don't need to be Matthews and Pasta to be a 1st liner.

Ullmark was definitely above average last year.

This is an incredibly high talent group overall.

Hurricanes problem in playoffs is lack of goals.

Mediocre phase should have ended last year.

 

[BFLO]

Adams more or less calling the "internal cap" crowd delusional at his presser just now.

Now comes the question - do they just think he's an unrepentant liar?

If we take Adams at his word isn't it actually worse for him? It means it was his decision alone to intentionally not spend the cash to improve the team or add trade chips in any of his 5 years as GM.

 

[Chainshot]

Another format -

 

[Ace]

If we take Adams at his word isn't it actually worse for him? It means it was his decision alone to intentionally not spend the cash to improve the team or add trade chips in any of his 5 years as GM.

If there are no spending restrictions and he hasn’t spent…or won…his entire time here…why would the owner, who has given him no restrictions (and also made him gut the hockey department on day 1), continue to employ him?

Someone explain how many years a man with “no restrictions” gets to fail and keep the job for me. And what reason there could possibly be for the owner to keep him.

He’s literally standing there saying that in the last four offseasons he hasn’t seen one big move worth making…while his team remains incomplete and misses the playoffs every year.

Why is that man still here if money isn’t an issue that he’s solving to ownership’s satisfaction?

 

[Jim Bob]

If there are no spending restrictions and he hasn’t spent…or won…his entire time here…why would the owner, who has given him no restrictions (and also made him gut the hockey department on day 1), continue to employ him?

Someone explain how many years a man with “no restrictions” gets to fail and keep the job for me. And what reason there could possibly be for the owner to keep him.

He’s literally standing there saying that in the last four offseasons he hasn’t seen one big move worth making…while his team remains incomplete and misses the playoffs every year.

Why is that man still here if money isn’t an issue that he’s solving to ownership’s satisfaction?

I am assuming that Pegula has bought into the slow draft and develop approach to the build and has been in lock step with the approach to the off season each and every year of Adams's time as GM.

You assume that winning now has been the expectation of Adams by Pegula since his hire. I do not believe that is the case.

 

[TehDoak]

You don't have any actual idea what Tage is in a different system. Cozens is a 2C/W. Quinn and Peterka 100% are capable of being 1st line fowards. You don't need to be Matthews and Pasta to be a 1st liner.

Sure, they Quinn and Peterka MIGHT be legit top line forwards.

You don't evaluate a team on hopes and dreams, you look at who they are.

Right now, their production is what you see on a secondary scoring winger. Could they grow and develop? Sure. Will they? That is far from a certainty.

Thompson had two seasons where the coach told him 'go go go', he scored 162 pts in 166 games.

When they pulled the reins of that system in a bit....he scored 56 pts in 71 games. Now, injuries take a toll there. And so did the power play dropping.

But to say that his upside is the average production he got on his two seasons as the unquestioned #1 center on a shackle free system isn't really a stretch. He's a very good center. He's just not an elite center (i.e. top 10)

Ullmark was definitely above average last year.

I'm assuming you mean UPL. Goalie stats are hugely team dependent, but GSAA he was 16th. If you take out goalies with less than 30 starts, he was 12th

Slightly above average? Not elite, but good.

This is an incredibly high talent group overall.

It's not. We have 5 top six forwards. (Thompson, Tuch, Cozens, Peterka, Quinn)

We have 1 top pair d-man. (Dahlin)

We have depth behind them in the bottom six and bottom 4. We have probably 3 2nd pair d-men (Depending on how you feel about Samuelsson). Maybe Power takes a step this year and is a top pair guy. Maybe Byram does

We have alot of great prospects coming who COULD become top six forwards. But...none of those are here yet. Maybe Kulich is...maybe he's not. Maybe Benson becomes one.

Maybe Maybe Maybe.

We have a potentially high talent group. But, as is...its right in the mediocre category. Not elite, not terrible. Just right in the mushy middle, probably on the lower end given the volume of youth.

Hurricanes problem in playoffs is lack of goals.

Describe it another way...maybe...lack of elite talent? Players who can score in tight checking, high pressure games?

Mediocre phase should have ended last year.

It didn't though. That's the problem. We are still square in it. And to be fair, I don't see a path to be legit contenders. Path to be a playoff team, sure. But elite legit cup contenders?

We'd have to hit on nearly every prospect and have masterful management of balancing development of players and winning expectations as well as a keen eye for properly building out teams so roles are filled.

Has Adams demonstrated the ability to do any of that entering his 5th year as GM?