Gabrielor
Registered User
lol, I prettied it up, it usually looks like this, and focuses on contract situation:Chart is awesome. One critique... Change the red font... might only be me but I can't read red font
Kevyn Adams GM thread
- Thread starter BUCKSHOT
- Start date
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Just keep up with all contract numbers, and you can be our board's new CapFriendly replacement. We'll pay you in likes.
Gabrielor
Registered User
I've been doing this 2 years longer than capfriendly has existed.
If we hate the value on the two recent trades, I wonder what the hell else he had to work with and if those theoretical deals he has been working on would have been more lopsided than the two that actually went down.
Adams *clearly* wants a big chunk of change to work with to resign the RFAs next season. If Quinn and Peterka and Byram all have fantastic seasons, it could get really expensive to not go the bridge route on JJP and Jack. He may want to get Levi locked up for more than 1 or 2 years as well. Adding a big contract would force one or two bridge deals and possibly force a trade of one of those three.
He is being prudent, in his mind, and I'd like to believe he is as frustrated as we are (in his own way) with the acquisition costs. But he is targeting young guys who are established and fit his specific vision for this team...he isn't just trading for random guys.
Adams *clearly* wants a big chunk of change to work with to resign the RFAs next season. If Quinn and Peterka and Byram all have fantastic seasons, it could get really expensive to not go the bridge route on JJP and Jack. He may want to get Levi locked up for more than 1 or 2 years as well. Adding a big contract would force one or two bridge deals and possibly force a trade of one of those three.
He is being prudent, in his mind, and I'd like to believe he is as frustrated as we are (in his own way) with the acquisition costs. But he is targeting young guys who are established and fit his specific vision for this team...he isn't just trading for random guys.
Alright, Adams needs to go after this season. He sucks at trading, and to win a cup you need to trade from here. Moving him to a different role like president, and get a GM that can work a trade. His value sucks on every trade it’s a trend now. There’s a 31 member group text dedicated to GM’s laughing at Adams.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
GM’s need to know how to craft a roster and not win on knee jerk trade value grades.
JBB gave up three 1sts and a lot more for Tanner Jeannot and Brandon Hagel.
Darcy Regier also “won” a lot more trades than he lost and we saw how that worked out in the long run.
If Savoie does turn out a Briere or Point type career...yeah...it would be an awful trade.
Right now while I hate the trade, I don't think it's as bad as the Jeannot trade. That was a total and proven fiasco and thought it was an insane idea from the jump.
Right now while I hate the trade, I don't think it's as bad as the Jeannot trade. That was a total and proven fiasco and thought it was an insane idea from the jump.
Jacob582
Registered User
- Oct 16, 2012
- 10,248
- 3,868
Who says his value sucks on every trade? He went out and got the player(s) he needed.
I'm sure he didn't pick the worst trade for Savoie that he could pick. He picked the best one.
Buffalo diminished Savoie as an asset by drafting too many of the same type of player.
BananaSquad
Registered User
A strong case can be made that the forwards and defense are superior, right now, to the versions that missed the playoffs by one point.
The only way the above is not true is if Tage and Dylan are not able to match the level they played at two seasons ago.
I agree that this team is better than 22-23.
But I also think that the results from that team were a bit of a mirage. We caught a lot of teams sleeping that year - saw a lot of second string goalies. Teams would bring their B-game. Even with that, we still wound up with a mediocre home record.
And because that year was a mirage, I don't see last year as being a big setback. Their opponents took them more seriously, they figured out a way to stop our rush. Even with Mitts on the team, fielding a bottom six with Jost, VO, OK and Robinson puts a lot of pressure on your top six to over produce, because there's just nothing to back them up. After all that, they were still only seven points out at the end.
It looks to me like this bottom six will be a net positive. We won't be ceding 20 minutes of the game every night. We're still still a bubble team, but it looks way the hell better than it did two weeks ago.
The talent in/Talent out balance is starting to get a little out of hand:
Out:
Eichel (2nd overall)
Reinhart (2nd overall)
Ristolainen
Mittelstadt (8th overall)
Savoie (9th overall)
2nd round picks
5th round pick
For:
Byram (4th OA)
Tuch
Krebs (17th OA)
Levi
Greenway
Malenstyn
McLeod
Tullio
3x 1st round picks (Kulich, Ostlund, Rosen)
That's a franchise center, 50 goal scorer, top 4 d-men, 2nd line center, and a top 10 draft pick out
for
a top 4 d-man, an elite goalie prospect, a top 6 forward, 2 3rd line forwards, a 4th line forward, an AHL forward, and a former 1st rounder that is trending towards busting and 3 other prospects.
I get it, some of these deals make sense when looked individually, but when looked at all together its a bit overwhelming. So of these prospects have to be absolute home runs.
I probably overlooked some returns that might even it out a bit, but this is off the top of my head mostly.
Out:
Eichel (2nd overall)
Reinhart (2nd overall)
Ristolainen
Mittelstadt (8th overall)
Savoie (9th overall)
2nd round picks
5th round pick
For:
Byram (4th OA)
Tuch
Krebs (17th OA)
Levi
Greenway
Malenstyn
McLeod
Tullio
3x 1st round picks (Kulich, Ostlund, Rosen)
That's a franchise center, 50 goal scorer, top 4 d-men, 2nd line center, and a top 10 draft pick out
for
a top 4 d-man, an elite goalie prospect, a top 6 forward, 2 3rd line forwards, a 4th line forward, an AHL forward, and a former 1st rounder that is trending towards busting and 3 other prospects.
I get it, some of these deals make sense when looked individually, but when looked at all together its a bit overwhelming. So of these prospects have to be absolute home runs.
I probably overlooked some returns that might even it out a bit, but this is off the top of my head mostly.
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shadow1
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2008
- 16,895
- 5,961
This format is glorious, I copied it for my favorite team (Colorado). Thank you.
I like how you conveniently lump 3 first round picks into “3 other prospects” when they are in fact one of the main components of all of those trades. They’re not just a tack on extra - let’s revisit this in 3-4 years when we know what they are/ savoie is and how McLeod actually played for bffsli - if he scores 40+ points and Buffalo are a playoff team the next 4-5 years in part and then those prospects become top 6 fwd (mine if which scores 30-40 then how does your list look?!
Also Tuch is a 1st line fwd - he score 36g and over a ppg for us the year before last - more than Eichel did - so you should include the stats coming in if you’re gonna drop the stats going out.
Eichel also is not the franchise player on Vegas - it’s mark stone. Franchise centers don’t average less than a ppg in their career - he is a first line center for them but he’s not a actual franchise level center just bc he was supposed to be ours and Vegas won a cup
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Greenway and Malenstyn came from other trades. Eichel and 11->14. You’re double counting costs.
Doug Prishpreed
Registered User
Are we officially calling Wahlberg a LW now? I could’ve sworn he was drafted as a surefire center but I guess Appert and company didn’t see it that way. Maybe he’ll be the Greenway replacement.
Going back to eichel, risto, and reinhart is funny. For a lot of reasons. But you do you
Which is why I said those prospects have to deliver to get anywhere close to what he sent out.
As of now, they are prospects. A big pile of maybes.
The likely scenario is 1 becomes a top six forward, 1 is a bottom six forward, and 1 doesn't make the NHL at all. If 2 make become top six contributors, it would tip the scale a bit, I think we'd need all 3 to make significant contributions for to approach close.
If Eichel had played in Granato's 'lol defense' system, he would have scored 100+ pts. He's been over a PPG in a tight defensive first system in vegas and was 2nd in voting in Conn Smythe last year. In Eichel's last full healthy season in Buffalo, he carried the team on his back and was top 10 in Hart voting. Tuch wasn't a top line winger in Vegas and I think he defaults to one here because we don't have anyone else.
The last two years he's been right at PPG. His first year he had was coming back from an extended time off.
He's been well over a PPG in the playoffs for them (33 pts in 29 games)
Stone is their captain, Eichel is their best player, especially given Stone misses 1/2 the games every year.
He's a center you can build around, he's just not a leader.
Greenway cost a 2nd a 5th.
Malenstyn cost a 2nd
The idea that because the 2nd for Malenstyn came from a trade back really changes the scale much.
I removed one of the second round picks because it did come from the Eichel deal. But it doesn't change much. A huge amount of skill and talent has gone out while a lot back.
And this is from someone who thought the Mcleod trade was necessary.
But, if you take a step back and do a macro look at the totality of Adams work.....it's not great.
Eichel is easily a franchise level player
Tuch is a 1RW, he’s on the lower end but he’s a top 33 RW
Reinhart being called a 50 goal scorer is a little rich. He’s a great player but let’s see if he gets there again.
Ristolinen as a top 4 RHD is also a bit much
This also removes the fact that Risto and Reinhart were scuffed assets because of their contract situations. Unless one wants to criticize Carolina getting a 3rd for a PPG winger.
Tuch is a 1RW, he’s on the lower end but he’s a top 33 RW
Reinhart being called a 50 goal scorer is a little rich. He’s a great player but let’s see if he gets there again.
Ristolinen as a top 4 RHD is also a bit much
This also removes the fact that Risto and Reinhart were scuffed assets because of their contract situations. Unless one wants to criticize Carolina getting a 3rd for a PPG winger.
jd1970
Registered User
He needs to go now. He basically "Larry Quinned" us this offseason.
He thinks washed up Zucker is his key top 6 acquisition.
Dreakon13
Registered User
This isn't just disregarding the fact some of those deals did make more sense individually (especially with context of why the players were being shopped)... it's also disregarding that we basically had all those guys on the team at the same time (save maybe Mittelstadt?) and it didn't work.
On this team, in this situation, these players were not the players they came to be elsewhere. It makes for a rough looking spin but it's also terribly disingenuous.
I'll take my chances on group two. Definition of insanity and all that.
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Dubi Doo
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2008
- 20,726
- 14,893
Him firing Granato, replacing him with a veteran coach, and rebuilding the bottom-6 by targeting guys and bringing them in even if the trades hurt- has me luke warm to him again. Rebuilding the bottom 6 was a year too late, but I'm ok with a GM learning from their mistakes.
If he kept Granato, I would've been on the 'fire him' bandwagon regardless of his other moves. So, I have my pitchfork back in the shed for the time being.
If he kept Granato, I would've been on the 'fire him' bandwagon regardless of his other moves. So, I have my pitchfork back in the shed for the time being.
