Kevyn Adams GM thread

[TageGod]

Who says his value sucks on every trade? He went out and got the player(s) he needed.

I'm sure he didn't pick the worst trade for Savoie that he could pick. He picked the best one.

Buffalo diminished Savoie as an asset by drafting too many of the same type of player.

They chose to trade a small player with recent injuries and a long path to the NHL. He diminished Savoie's value himself. It would have been smarter to bet on him increasing his stock at least in Roch this year.

 

[Jim Bob]

They chose to trade a small player with recent injuries and a long path to the NHL. He diminished Savoie's value himself. It would have been smarter to bet on him increasing his stock at least in Roch this year.

It would not be smart to roll into this season without McLeod at 3C.

If it was trading Kulich or Savoie to get an upgrade at 3C, I can understand why they opted to move Savoie.

 

[TageGod]

It would not be smart to roll into this season without McLeod at 3C.

If it was trading Kulich or Savoie to get an upgrade at 3C, I can understand why they opted to move Savoie.

It makes sense, but there were countless options. It was poor asset management to sell low on Savoie.

 

[Jim Bob]

It makes sense, but there were countless options. It was poor asset management to sell low on Savoie.

There were only countless options in the fantasy world of speculation that fans and media live in.

Adams was working on the McLeod trade for over a week. He was reportedly talking to Carolina about a player who was not Necas and those talks ended after the McLeod trade. So, it is not hard to believe that Adams was offering Savoie for Drury and Carolina didn't want to make that deal.

So, Adams dealt Savoie for McLeod.

This was not the offseason where Adams could afford to pass on trades to improve the NHL roster because the trade asks were "too high" by other GMs.

I would much rather have McLeod and Malenstyn than Savoie and the 2nd round pick given that this is a "Win Now" season and Savoie and the 2nd round draftee were not going to have the impact on the roster that McLeod and Malenstyn will this season.

 

[TageGod]

There were only countless options in the fantasy world of speculation that fans and media live in.

Adams was working on the McLeod trade for over a week. He was reportedly talking to Carolina about a player who was not Necas and those talks ended after the McLeod trade. So, it is not hard to believe that Adams was offering Savoie for Drury and Carolina didn't want to make that deal.

So, Adams dealt Savoie for McLeod.

This was not the offseason where Adams could afford to pass on trades to improve the NHL roster because the trade asks were "too high" by other GMs.

I would much rather have McLeod and Malenstyn than Savoie and the 2nd round pick given that this is a "Win Now" season and Savoie and the 2nd round draftee were not going to have the impact on the roster that McLeod and Malenstyn will this season.

I do agree with you. For me, this is a GM issue. His handling of Savoie is poor asset management. Him trading a small player with injury concerns, dicking him around last season and not giving him an opportunity, and actively shopping him. Savoie was treated as expendable in every way possible and his value reflected that. He was widely considered even with Kulich as a prospect, would you trade Kulich for Mcleod? Most here would say no.

Yes, it is great to have two players instead of magic beans. Better management could have increased the trade return, even if it was just a 3rd, maybe second. A better GM probably makes his deal before cottage season desperation. This is not an end product issue; it is the process and Adams clear lack of negotiating tact.

 

[Jim Bob]

I do agree with you. For me, this is a GM issue. His handling of Savoie is poor asset management. Him trading a small player with injury concerns, dicking him around last season and not giving him an opportunity, and actively shopping him. Savoie was treated as expendable in every way possible and his value reflected that. He was widely considered even with Kulich as a prospect, would you trade Kulich for Mcleod? Most here would say no.

Yes, it is great to have two players instead of magic beans. Better management could have increased the trade return, even if it was just a 3rd, maybe second. A better GM probably makes his deal before cottage season desperation. This is not an end product issue; it is the process and Adams clear lack of negotiating tact.

How was he supposed to improve the roster and handle Savoie better?

If it was Kulich or Savoie for McLeod or no deal, what should he have done differently?

They entered the offseason with holes to fill and he was willing to trade Savoie who he refused to move in a Chychrun trade previously. That is being a good GM to me.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

This is the year to judge gmka
Last year was supposed to be the player assessment year and to figure out changes needed
He has refilled the prospect pool and now have a player development process

He has made his moves and revamped the roster to his liking and new coach.

Proof is on the pudding. This is the year to judge him

 

[May Day 10]

How was he supposed to improve the roster and handle Savoie better?

If it was Kulich or Savoie for McLeod or no deal, what should he have done differently?

They entered the offseason with holes to fill and he was willing to trade Savoie who he refused to move in a Chychrun trade previously. That is being a good GM to me.

Would you trade Byrum and McLeod for Mittelstadt and Savoie?

 

[TageGod]

How was he supposed to improve the roster and handle Savoie better?

If it was Kulich or Savoie for McLeod or no deal, what should he have done differently?

They entered the offseason with holes to fill and he was willing to trade Savoie who he refused to move in a Chychrun trade previously. That is being a good GM to me.

For starters, give Savoie an opportunity last year after the rehab stint, or don't sell low on a high-end prospect if the return was a cast off 3C replaced by Henrique. Or wait and see how he does this season to recoup his value after the injury.

The point is he took so long to close a deal it became Mcleod or nothing. He devalued his own prospect then sold low on him in desperation.

You just prove my point here. Chychrun was worth WAY more than Mcleod in a trade. That is a classic bad GM move of selling low when you had an opportunity to sell higher. Mcleod is just not worth Savoies potential. They still have a clear top 6 hole to fill and there is no proof Benson or Kulich can fill it anyways.

It is not about prospect for player, it's the glaring issues at GM that led to the poor trade value. If EDM added a second to the trade I would say hey value is closer and potential deadline asset. Instead they added an AHL roster spot, yay.

Would you trade Byrum and McLeod for Mittelstadt and Savoie?

I would.

 

[Jim Bob]

Would you trade Byrum and McLeod for Mittelstadt and Savoie?

I am not a fan of the Byram-Mitts trade, at all.

So, if you want to critize Adams for that trade, I can get on board with that.

But, given that we cannot go in a way back machine and undo that trade, I have no issue at all with Savoie for McLeod.

I also wonder if there are any Savoie for D trades that you could have theoretically pulled off if you didn't make the Mitts-Byram swap.

For starters, give Savoie an opportunity last year after the rehab stint, or don't sell low on a high-end prospect if the return was a cast off 3C replaced by Henrique. Or wait and see how he does this season to recoup his value after the injury.

The point is he took so long to close a deal it became Mcleod or nothing. He devalued his own prospect then sold low on him in desperation.

You just prove my point here. Chychrun was worth WAY more than Mcleod in a trade. That is a classic bad GM move of selling low when you had an opportunity to sell higher. Mcleod is just not worth Savoies potential. They still have a clear top 6 hole to fill and there is no proof Benson or Kulich can fill it anyways.

It is not about prospect for player, it's the glaring issues at GM that led to the poor trade value. If EDM added a second to the trade I would say hey value is closer and potential deadline asset. Instead they added an AHL roster spot, yay.

Given what Ottawa just traded Chychrun for, I do not think it would have been smart to give up what Arizona wanted for Chychrun at the time.

You seem to care more about prospect value than improving the NHL roster. That is fine, but that is not where I am at today.

 

[TageGod]

I am not a fan of the Byram-Mitts trade, at all.

So, if you want to critize Adams for that trade, I can get on board with that.

But, given that we cannot go in a way back machine and undo that trade, I have no issue at all with Savoie for McLeod.

I also wonder if there are any Savoie for D trades that you could have theoretically pulled off if you didn't make the Mitts-Byram swap.


Given what Ottawa just traded Chychrun for, I do not think it would have been smart to give up what Arizona wanted for Chychrun at the time.

You seem to care more about prospect value than improving the NHL roster. That is fine, but that is not where I am at today.

You keep ignoring EVERYTHING I SAY except the final trade result. I care about the gm being bad at his job, mishandling a prospect, and overpaying for everything out of desperation. This also isn't a hindsight argument; it is the value at the time of the trade. Chychrun is worth way more at that time. If Savoie's value dropped that much, and you still haven't even seen him for much time in the AHL, you keep him.

You just saw Mcleods value in free agency, see Henriques contract. Adams couldn't find THAT until the cottage? He couldn't find one for free in FA? Savoie should have went towards the top 6 player as a top 6 prospect, not the bottom 6.

 

[Jim Bob]

You keep ignoring EVERYTHING I SAY except the final trade result. I care about the gm being bad at his job, mishandling a prospect, and overpaying for everything out of desperation. This also isn't a hindsight argument; it is the value at the time of the trade. Chychrun is worth way more at that time. If Savoie's value dropped that much, and you still haven't even seen him for much time in the AHL, you keep him.

You just saw Mcleods value in free agency, see Henriques contract. Adams couldn't find THAT until the cottage? He couldn't find one for free in FA? Savoie should have went towards the top 6 player as a top 6 prospect, not the bottom 6.

You could not find a 24yo with multiple years of team control that has the speed that McLeod has in FA. Adams targeted McLeod & Drury because they were younger than UFA aged 3Cs that would be here a while. As such, that was not a hole that he was going to fill via a UFA.

And I fail to see how Adams mishandled Savoie. If they had kept Savoie, there is a decent chance that his trade value a year on is even worse than it was this offseason. Rosen's trade value might have been better a year ago than it is now, for instance.

I was more than happy with passing on Chychrun at the time because I felt like he was vastly overrated. And how things played out in Ottawa is an example that he was overrated.

 

[OkimLom]

Would you trade Byrum and McLeod for Mittelstadt and Savoie?

I think Mittelstadt and Byrum are of equal values in terms of player talent. I think either party, whether Colorado came to Buffalo or Buffalo came to Colorado, shouldn't get raked over the coals for doing the trade, JUST based on talent level.

Would I trade McLeod for Savoie, yes I would as I would see Savoie as the player with the higher potential. I don't think I would trade Savoie for McLeod.

Overall, just looking at these two sets of players, I think Buffalo would've been better off long term with Mittelstadt and Savoie, than Byrum and McLeod.

 

[TageGod]

You could not find a 24yo with multiple years of team control that has the speed that McLeod has in FA. Adams targeted McLeod & Drury because they were younger than UFA aged 3Cs that would be here a while. As such, that was not a hole that he was going to fill via a UFA.

And I fail to see how Adams mishandled Savoie. If they had kept Savoie, there is a decent chance that his trade value a year on is even worse than it was this offseason. Rosen's trade value might have been better a year ago than it is now, for instance.

I was more than happy with passing on Chychrun at the time because I felt like he was vastly overrated. And how things played out in Ottawa is an example that he was overrated.

The risk of Savoie not being worth Mcleod versus his potential value to the team is not even close. What is Mcleod even worth, a 2nd and a throw in prospect? I'd rather bet on my top 10 pick.

Again, find another route for the 3C and save your high end prospects for a high end trade.

Don't get me wrong, if EDM attached a second I would say the trade is fine. I am also fine with prospect for player trades. Take that second to draft the highest upside forward you can to replace Savoie in the pool.

 

[Aladyyn]

The risk of Savoie not being worth Mcleod versus his potential value to the team is not even close. What is Mcleod even worth, a 2nd and a throw in prospect? I'd rather bet on my top 10 pick.

Seems to be worth somewhere around 1 Matt Savoie actually

 

[OkimLom]

This is the year to judge gmka
Last year was supposed to be the player assessment year and to figure out changes needed
He has refilled the prospect pool and now have a player development process

He has made his moves and revamped the roster to his liking and new coach.

Proof is on the pudding. This is the year to judge him

No, EVERY YEAR you could judge him, and there were plenty complaints of how Adams handled each offseason, and we are now seeing the results of the inaction and the consequences of his actions and decisions.

I'm willing to be okay with saying that this year his seat should under the most scrutiny, though I would disagree and say LAST season should've been that season. But to say that he shouldn't have been judged UNTIL this season, screams fingers in the ears and head in the sand levels of fandom.

 

[TageGod]

Seems to be worth somewhere around 1 Matt Savoie actually

Nice flame, but no, that is not Savoie's value. A high-end prospect is not worth a 2nd.

 

[Jim Bob]

The risk of Savoie not being worth Mcleod versus his potential value to the team is not even close. What is Mcleod even worth, a 2nd and a throw in prospect? I'd rather bet on my top 10 pick.

Again, find another route for the 3C and save your high end prospects for a high end trade.

Don't get me wrong, if EDM attached a second I would say the trade is fine. I am also fine with prospect for player trades. Take that second to draft the highest upside forward you can to replace Savoie in the pool.

I do not care about the risk that Savoie pops in 2-3 years given all the other high end U23 forwards the Sabres have. The risk that Savoie is the best of all the U23 forwards is pretty low to me. As such, I have no issue with the trade.

And if a 2nd round pick is the amount of the overpay, it really isn't that big of a gap and not anything to really get upset about in this stage of the build.

No, EVERY YEAR you could judge him, and there were plenty complaints of how Adams handled each offseason, and we are now seeing the results of the inaction and the consequences of his actions and decisions.

I'm willing to be okay with saying that this year his seat should under the most scrutiny, though I would disagree and say LAST season should've been that season. But to say that he shouldn't have been judged UNTIL this season, screams fingers in the ears and head in the sand levels of fandom.

To be fair, I think last offseason was the first one where I feel like Adams was too patient and there were missed opportunities to shift gears from waiting and seeing to making meaningful moves to reshape the roster and shore up areas of need.

And yes, a lot of the moves he made this year were due to inactivity last offseason and the Mitts-Byram deal.

 

[TageGod]

I do not care about the risk that Savoie pops in 2-3 years given all the other high end U23 forwards the Sabres have. The risk that Savoie is the best of all the U23 forwards is pretty low to me. As such, I have no issue with the trade.

And if a 2nd round pick is the amount of the overpay, it really isn't that big of a gap and not anything to really get upset about in this stage of the build.

Again, it is the process, decision making, handling of Savoie, and poor trade results from Adams that is the issue.

Selling low on a high end potential prospect is a huge no for me.

I won't keep trying to argue about Adams deficiencies leading to poor trade value this offseason.

 

[Jim Bob]

Again, it is the process, decision making, handling of Savoie, and poor trade results from Adams that is the issue.

Selling low on a high end potential prospect is a huge no for me.

I won't keep trying to argue about Adams deficiencies leading to poor trade value this offseason.

And again, I have no issue with the process, decision-making, or handling of Savoie.

They needed to turn picks and prospects into NHLers this offseason. As such, I will not bemoan either the Malentstyn or McLeod trades.

Since becoming GM, Adams has drafted Quinn, Peterka, Power, Rosen, Poltapov, Kisakov, Savoie, Ostlund, Kulich, Leinonen, Benson, Walberg, Strbak, Helenius, and Kleber in the 1st or 2nd round. 14 out of 15 of those players (and 10 of the 11 forwards) are still Sabres property.

 

[TageGod]

And again, I have no issue with the process, decision-making, or handling of Savoie.

They needed to turn picks and prospects into NHLers this offseason. As such, I will not bemoan either the Malentstyn or McLeod trades.

Since becoming GM, Adams has drafted Quinn, Peterka, Power, Rosen, Poltapov, Kisakov, Savoie, Ostlund, Kulich, Leinonen, Benson, Walberg, Strbak, Helenius, and Kleber in the 1st or 2nd round. 14 out of 15 of those players (and 10 of the 11 forwards) are still Sabres property.

This is what does not add up to me. Something about Savoie made him want to get rid of him, and the value didn't really seem to matter that much. He was a top 5 pick who, like typical, dropped due to size. If I told you our top 5 or even top 10 pick never got an NHL look before being traded you would say I am crazy.

This is from a bad team perspective, not Vegas who is trying for the cup every year and does not need prospects and can attract free agents.

 

[Dubi Doo]

The risk of Savoie not being worth Mcleod versus his potential value to the team is not even close. What is Mcleod even worth, a 2nd and a throw in prospect? I'd rather bet on my top 10 pick.

A C with his defensive metrics, speed, and ability to play up the lineup is a very enticing piece. It's an overpay, but 3Cs who can shutdown other lines (still remains to be seen how impactful he'll be at this, but he's trending in the right direction) are incredibly valuable. I have no problem overpaying for a potential shutdown C . Teams dont typically let players like that who are just hitting their prime go. Luckily for us, EDM re-signed a more proven C and have the best 1-2 C combo in the league, so he was expendable. You have to ante up for players like that, and sometimes it's going to hurt.

I would've rather kept Mitts, but I'm happy we have McLeod. If he turns into our Hecht type player, then that's a good piece that can impact multiple lines.

 

[TehDoak]

This isn't just disregarding the fact some of those deals did make more sense individually (especially with context of why the players were being shopped)... it's also disregarding that we basically had all those guys on the team at the same time (save maybe Mittelstadt?) and it didn't work.

On this team, in this situation, these players were not the players they came to be elsewhere. It makes for a rough looking spin but it's also terribly disingenuous.

I'll take my chances on group two. Definition of insanity and all that.

The issue is, the problem was never the core players (well, minus Risto), it was the surrounding cast that was the problem.

The inability for ownership to get a competent GM who could build around the talented core built by several last place finishes has been the issue. Of the 3 Gms who have been best at team building, Murray comes in 1st by quite a bit....and he was pretty bad at it. But no one has added more talent to the roster than he did over a short period of time. O'Reilly/Lehner/Kane in, essentially, a single offseason (though Kane was at the trade deadline). By comparison, Adams, in 4 years post Eichel trade, has added 0 top six forwards, 1 top 4 d-man (Byram), and 0 starting goalies.

 

[TageGod]

A C with his defensive metrics, speed, and ability to play up the lineup is a very enticing piece. It's an overpay, but 3Cs who can shutdown other lines (still remains to be seen how impactful he'll be at this, but he's trending in the right direction) are incredibly valuable. I have no problem overpaying for a potential shutdown C . Teams dont typically let players like that who are just hitting their prime go. Luckily for us, EDM re-signed a more proven C and have the best 1-2 C combo in the league, so he was expendable. You have to ante up for players like that, and sometimes it's going to hurt.

I would've rather kept Mitts, but I'm happy we have McLeod. If he turns into our Hecht type player, then that's a good piece that can impact multiple lines.

I was under the impression EDM fans said he was not physical at all.

I have no issues with the addition strictly speaking.

 

[Jim Bob]

This is what does not add up to me. Something about Savoie made him want to get rid of him, and the value didn't really seem to matter that much. He was a top 5 pick who, like typical, dropped due to size. If I told you our top 5 or even top 10 pick never got an NHL look before being traded you would say I am crazy.

This is from a bad team perspective, not Vegas who is trying for the cup every year and does not need prospects and can attract free agents.

The Sabres know their prospects the best. They also know what the trade value around the league for all their prospects were.

If Kulich and Savoie were the only two guys with enough trade value around the league to land a 3C, I can understand why they moved Savoie. Plus, it could be that Edmonton locked onto Savoie in part because he is from Edmonton.

And he was not a top 5 pick. He was the 9th pick and his lack of size likely was a factor when it came to his trade value and that is something that was unlikely to change anytime soon as he will not have some crazy growth spurt.