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Kevyn Adams GM thread

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For those of us pleading for a coaching change, extending Granato is easily Adams' most indefensible mistake. Hopefully, Adams swallows his pride and does the right thing.

But realistically, is he actually going to fire Granato before his extension even comes into effect?

"Sorry, Terry. Stuff happens. Hey, it's less than $4M I totally pissed away. You were serious about drilling another well, right?"
 
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Deep Blue Metallic said:
For those of us pleading for a coaching change, extending Granato is easily Adams' most indefensible mistake. Hopefully, Adams swallows his pride and does the right thing.

But realistically, is he actually going to fire Granato before his extension even comes into effect?

"Sorry, Terry. Stuff happens. Hey, it's less than $4M I totally pissed away. You were serious about drilling another well, right?"
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Although there was no need to extend Granato when we did.. Granato had only improved the team year over year to that point. Definitely not some insane mistake that all of us saw coming.

Like, you know, not doing a damn thing this off-season lol.
 
MOGlLNY said:
Although there was no need to extend Granato when we did.. Granato had only improved the team year over year to that point. Definitely not some insane mistake that all of us saw coming.

Like, you know, not doing a damn thing this off-season lol.
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You should have bolded just this part upon reading. "For those of us pleading for a coaching change"

Our lack of an omniscient crystal ball doesn't give Adams a pass for a stupid mistake, the correction of which will make him look utterly incompetent.
 
Deep Blue Metallic said:
For those of us pleading for a coaching change, extending Granato is easily Adams' most indefensible mistake. Hopefully, Adams swallows his pride and does the right thing.

But realistically, is he actually going to fire Granato before his extension even comes into effect?

"Sorry, Terry. Stuff happens. Hey, it's less than $4M I totally pissed away. You were serious about drilling another well, right?"
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Adams has nearly 4x Granato's salary buried in Rochester for much of the season. What's a couple million when the season is a stake? A coaching change when it might have counted could have translated into making the playoffs and multiple millions in added revenue. If Adams had the conviction to fire Granato, he would have. The problem is he still clings to the notion that Granato is the right coach to lead this team for the next several seasons. Maybe he is, but the evidence is heavily stacked against that notion.
 
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Old Navy Goat said:
I don't see a problem with Terry sitting in on meetings. Isn't he doing that with the Bills also? The amateur scouting and drafting has been one of the few highlights of the organisation even if we'd like a few more bangers in the pipeline
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We have reports from over the years of the Bills brass ignoring Terry's opinions (Terry reportedly wanted the Bills to draft Mahomes) and Sabres brass following Terry's directions (he reportedly was a factor in the Leino & Ehrhoff signings). And we have a GM who was hired in large part because he would keep Terry in the loop.

With consistent failure to put a quality team on the ice over a large sample size and Terry wanting to be involved in decision making has me wanting him to be just a fan and not a part of the hockey decision making.

There is one huge common denominator in all of the Sabres teams throughout the drought.
 
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Jim Bob said:
We have reports from over the years of the Bills brass ignoring Terry's opinions (Terry reportedly wanted the Bills to draft Mahomes) and Sabres brass following Terry's directions (he reportedly was a factor in the Leino & Ehrhoff signings). And we have a GM who was hired in large part because he would keep Terry in the loop.

With consistent failure to put a quality team on the ice over a large sample size and Terry wanting to be involved in decision making has me wanting him to be just a fan and not a part of the hockey decision making.

There is one huge common denominator in all of the Sabres teams throughout the drought.
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There's a huge gap between sitting in meetings and facilitating signings to actively telling them what to do, who to draft etc
 
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All you have to do is "manage up," and Terry seems totally amenable to that. I'm more worried about Terry's choice to have Adams be the GM than him meddling in Adams' day-to-day decisions.
 
Old Navy Goat said:
There's a huge gap between sitting in meetings and facilitating signings to actively telling them what to do, who to draft etc
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When you see someone who has overseen a poorly performing organization hire an inexperienced GM in large part because of that new GM's willingness to keep the owner in the loop, poor performance has continued, and the GM talks openly about the owner being involved in meetings, I don't care how you want to spin it, that does not give me confidence in the decision making process and the people involved.

There is not a single NHL owner that I want talking about being as involved as Terry has talked about being and that he reportedly has been.

What quality NHL team has their owner and GM talking about this stuff happening?
 
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Jim Bob said:
We have reports from over the years of the Bills brass ignoring Terry's opinions (Terry reportedly wanted the Bills to draft Mahomes) and Sabres brass following Terry's directions (he reportedly was a factor in the Leino & Ehrhoff signings). And we have a GM who was hired in large part because he would keep Terry in the loop.
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The Pegulas were involved in the recruitment of Leino and Ehrhoff. That is a big difference between giving directions. Ruff was the one who pushed for Leino and Ehrhoff was more from the Regier side of things.

Terry has hired really terrible GMs and coaches. That is on him. This fantasy that he is picking free agents or drafting players is a total conspiracy theory conconcted by fans
 
Puppa2Miller said:
The Pegulas were involved in the recruitment of Leino and Ehrhoff. That is a big difference between giving directions. Ruff was the one who pushed for Leino and Ehrhoff was more from the Regier side of things.

Terry has hired really terrible GMs and coaches. That is on him. This fantasy that he is picking free agents or drafting players is a total conspiracy theory conconcted by fans
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Have you heard any owner of a quality NHL franchise say that a big factor in hiring a GM was being heard?


"I'm going to label communication as one of the biggest issues with the Sabres," Terry Pegula said. "We believe in open communication between all powers to be in the organization, and sometimes that breaks down. Sometimes it could be anybody's fault, but there's only one Stanley Cup winner every year, and again, our goal is to enthusiastically face the future with our new regime here and try to win a championship."

That lack of communication even came down to the Pegulas' vision for the future of the team with Botterill's vision. Terry said was both sides were not on the same wavelength when looking ahead to next season and beyond.

"We felt like we weren't being heard," he said. "I'm not going to sit here and dish on Jason Botterill, but we have a vision and we want to see our vision succeed."

-------------------------------

"With the three pieces we have in place now, our ownership, Kevyn and Ralph, we've got this 100% open line of communication that we, as owners, have always felt as necessary for any sports team to be successful," Terry said. "Across town (Orchard Park), we have the same relationship and it seems to be going okay over there.

"I'm enthusiastic about that with the gentlemen we're working with in the organization right now."
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How has their vision worked so far?
 
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Puppa2Miller said:
Things have worked terribly as I mentioned in the previous post. No argument.

Owners wanting communication between the GMs, the scouting staffs, the coaches, and themselves is nothing new or out of the ordinary
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If you think the Pegulas wanted a normal amount of communication up and down the organization and that was why they hired Adams without looking at any outside candidates and without looking at a single candidate with NHL GM experience, then I do not know what to tell you.

It is pretty clear to me that this was not a normal expectation about communication that the Pegulas were looking for.
 
Jim Bob said:
If you think the Pegulas wanted a normal amount of communication up and down the organization and that was why they hired Adams without looking at any outside candidates and without looking at a single candidate with NHL GM experience, then I do not know what to tell you.

It is pretty clear to me that this was not a normal expectation about communication that the Pegulas were looking for.
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They hired Adams because he was familiar and they felt failed by outsiders at that point. It was a foolish decision made due to previous failed decisions.

If you think it was to hire someone who would sign which free agents he wanted and draft which guys he wished, then I don't know what to say beyond we will have to agree to disagree
 
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Puppa2Miller said:
They hired Adams because he was familiar and they felt failed by outsiders at that point. It was a foolish decision made due to previous failed decisions.

If you think it was to hire someone who would sign which free agents he wanted and draft which guys he wished, then I don't know what to say beyond we will have to agree to disagree
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I think he was hired in large part because he listens to what the Pegulas want and does it.

Firing tons of staff on his first day was a part of it.

Letting Terry be more involved in hockey meetings and decisions than your average owner seems like it's a part of it, too.
 
Puppa2Miller said:
They hired Adams because he was familiar and they felt failed by outsiders at that point. It was a foolish decision made due to previous failed decisions.

If you think it was to hire someone who would sign which free agents he wanted and draft which guys he wished, then I don't know what to say beyond we will have to agree to disagree
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What is exactly is meant by "failed by outsiders?"

I mean, this is the NHL, practically every coach/GM/Hockey OPs president hired by any organization is technically an "outsider." And when one outsider fails at his job, they go and hire another outsider, and so on etc in nearly every single case.

Hiring "inside" the organization is what you do when you've failed repeatedly at hiring the right people because, in your hiring process, you prioritize silly, ancillary qualities like "open to input from a naive ownership group" or "lacks experience and is thus malleable to push ownership's vision." You hire "inside" when you're a wounded control freak who is unwilling to cede important decision making powers to skilled, established, and successful practitioners of the sport.
 
slip said:
What is exactly is meant by "failed by outsiders?"

I mean, this is the NHL, practically every coach/GM/Hockey OPs president hired by any organization is technically an "outsider." And when one outsider fails at his job, they go and hire another outsider, and so on etc in nearly every single case.

Hiring "inside" the organization is what you do when you've failed repeatedly at hiring the right people because, in your hiring process, you prioritize silly, ancillary qualities like "open to input from a naive ownership group" or "lacks experience and is thus malleable to push ownership's vision." You hire "inside" when you're a wounded control freak who is unwilling to cede important decision making powers to skilled, established, and successful practitioners of the sport.
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People recommended by people outside of the Org.
 
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Deep Blue Metallic said:
For those of us pleading for a coaching change, extending Granato is easily Adams' most indefensible mistake. Hopefully, Adams swallows his pride and does the right thing.

But realistically, is he actually going to fire Granato before his extension even comes into effect?

"Sorry, Terry. Stuff happens. Hey, it's less than $4M I totally pissed away. You were serious about drilling another well, right?"
Click to expand...


In my view, the granato extension was pegula's call. In past regimes, pegula has let slip that both the head coach and gm report directly to ownership. I remember Krueger saying that he speaks to Terry every day.

That structure is a joke in the nhl and shorts out the organization. The pegulas were reluctant to fire housley after they cozied up to Phil and Karin, even funding the latter's senate campaign. Coaches in the nhl are all the most expendable piece in the organization.

The "communication" is just code for terry to be intimately involved. Adams said a couple weeks ago that terry attends scouting meetings, takes notes, and asks questions. This is not constructive or normal. This is precisely why we have a pegula chrony installed as gm. Any nhl gm who has any credibility knows this I'd how it works in buffalo and would likely never consider it. Also, pegula would never consider a drizzled gm because they would demand this "communication" be limited. Lou Lamoriello doesn't want to pause during scouting meetings so tery pegula can catch up on notes, nor does he want to answer amateur hour questions.

Adams doesn't mind living in this, as he knows this is likely his only gm job he will ever have. Terry hands out an unearned extension to a coach like that, adams happily eats it and soldiers on for the owner.

It is very similar to the bills' existence from about 2004-2015 when russ brandon essentially ran the organization as a proxy to Ralph wilson
 
TageGod said:
You don't remember AHL all star Luke Adam?
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Kind of a reach to go back 10 years to paint a picture of something that happens for plenty of teams - that being a AAAA player who is at the top of the AHL for a particular farm team but doesn't translate up to the next level. Just up the QEW, the Marlies are regularly experiencing the same sort of issue and with even more hype for those guys because of the crucible of the regional Leaf coverage.
 
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Chainshot said:
Kind of a reach to go back 10 years to paint a picture of something that happens for plenty of teams - that being a AAAA player who is at the top of the AHL for a particular farm team but doesn't translate up to the next level. Just up the QEW, the Marlies are regularly experiencing the same sort of issue and with even more hype for those guys because of the crucible of the regional Leaf coverage.
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He was the name that came to mind as the best example.
 
Chainshot said:
It's that every team have guys like that. It's not indicative of some problem with the Sabres development.
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The original post was to specify that AHL success does not automatically translate. This is regarding the assumption that Kulich will be able to make the transition. I have a much higher faith in the organization to develop than during Luke Adams time for sure. I just believe he is currently available to sell higher than I think he is worth compared to the other prospects which are similar or potentially less than viewed.
 
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