Kevyn Adams GM thread

[truthbluth]

Hoarding assets, using draft picks, and extending players is the easy part. Most participants in this forum could do a passable job at that with a rudimentary support staff like the Sabres have.

Adams and the crew have no idea how to build an actual stratified NHL roster. No idea on coach/staff either. They are stuck in this asset hoarding stage.

There is an aversion to make tough decisions as well. The coach should have been fired weeks ago, but a performance like last night with this season thusfar gets 31 other coaches fired. They need to hang onto all 3 goalies, dress 7 d-men. Needed to re-sign Okposo and Girgensons. Held onto worthless VO like a bad penny. Held onto all the underqualified assistant coaches.

I’m typically a defender of both Adams and Granato, but this is all correct. At this point, knowing that Pegula won’t fire Adams, it’s just hopeless.

 

[toddkaz]

To make a meaningful upgrade, it likely would have cost their 2023 1st round pick (that was used on Benson) + more.

Trying to trade futures for immediate veteran help looks like giving up a pick that can turn out great, or an underdeveloped prospect that turns out great in the long run, for immediate help.

One of the biggest win-win prospect for vet trades ever was Calgary trading veteran top 6 C Joe Nieuwendyk to Dallas for Corey Millen and the first player that the Stars drafted after moving to Dallas: Jarome Iginla. Iginla was a Stars prospect for all of 5 months and 11 days before he was traded.

I think both teams were happy with how it worked out. But, Dallas did have to give up a prospect that turned into a HHOF to get a solid vet.

Says who? Do you guys have some sort of insider info that others dont get?

Lots of players were traded for picks in this years draft too as opposed to the last one. Others were traded for 2nd rounds

I love how people think they know what goes on behind close doors and they know the value of players.

Heck the Canucks were trying to dump Boeser for nothing last year.

We have prospects that can be traded or should be just hoard are small skilled players and not try to put together an actual team?

 

[Jim Bob]

Says who? Do you guys have some sort of insider info that others dont get?

Lots of players were traded for picks in this years draft too as opposed to the last one. Others were traded for 2nd rounds

I love how people think they know what goes on behind close doors and they know the value of players.

Heck the Canucks were trying to dump Boeser for nothing last year.

We have prospects that can be traded or should be just hoard are small skilled players and not try to put together an actual team?

Picks are generally valued higher than prospects are when it comes to the trade market.

A GM would rather pick their guy than take on a guy that another team picked.

There are trades that likely could have been made without moving their 2023 1st. But, the 2023 1st was likely the most valuable trade piece that other GMs were asking for outside of guys that Adams had zero interest in moving whatsoever.

And your love for people acting like they know what conversations between GMs look like can just as easily be applied to your take that Adams could trade "small skilled" prospects for guys that would make for "an actual team".

 

[thewookie1]

Picks are generally valued higher than prospects are when it comes to the trade market.

A GM would rather pick their guy than take on a guy that another team picked.

There are trades that likely could have been made without moving their 2023 1st. But, the 2023 1st was likely the most valuable trade piece that other GMs were asking for outside of guys that Adams had zero interest in moving whatsoever.

And your love for people acting like they know what conversations between GMs look like can just as easily be applied to your take that Adams could trade "small skilled" prospects for guys that would make for "an actual team".

It was stated teams were valuing our prospects above our pick last year when regarding the Chychrun saga

 

[Jim Bob]

It was stated teams were valuing our prospects above our pick last year when regarding the Chychrun saga

It was stated that Arizona wanted one of the former 1st rounders in the deal and not that they did not want the Sabres '23 1st in the deal.

And that Arizona would not let the Sabres top the Ottawa offer of '23 1st, '24 2nd, and '26 2nd with picks only.

My guess is that Arizona wanted '23 1st + one of Kulich or Savoie and Adams was willing to give up the '23 1st and not one of Kulich or Savoie.

 

[slip]

It was stated that Arizona wanted one of the former 1st rounders in the deal and not that they did not want the Sabres '23 1st in the deal.

And that Arizona would not let the Sabres top the Ottawa offer of '23 1st, '24 2nd, and '26 2nd with picks only.

My guess is that Arizona wanted '23 1st + one of Kulich or Savoie and Adams was willing to give up the '23 1st and not one of Kulich or Savoie.

The only thing worse than this season is this season without Benson and Kulich in the wings for a solid middle tier defenseman with only two years left on his contract.

Sometimes, the best moves are the ones you don't make.

 

[Jim Bob]

The only thing worse than this season is this season without Benson and Kulich in the wings for a solid middle tier defenseman with only two years left on his contract.

Sometimes, the best moves are the ones you don't make.

The problem is that Adams needed to make moves and all he did was sign two depth D that cannot provide answers in the top 4.

 

[toddkaz]

Picks are generally valued higher than prospects are when it comes to the trade market.

A GM would rather pick their guy than take on a guy that another team picked.

There are trades that likely could have been made without moving their 2023 1st. But, the 2023 1st was likely the most valuable trade piece that other GMs were asking for outside of guys that Adams had zero interest in moving whatsoever.

And your love for people acting like they know what conversations between GMs look like can just as easily be applied to your take that Adams could trade "small skilled" prospects for guys that would make for "an actual team".

Cool, you still have no idea what was available and the cost. You are guessing and then passing it off as fact.

Pretty much everything you write is opinion and not fact based.

 

[slip]

The problem is that Adams needed to make moves and all he did was sign two depth D that cannot provide answers in the top 4.

On the flip side he retained the assets the next GM can appropriate in trades to fills the holes he never could.

 

[Jim Bob]

Cool, you still have no idea what was available and the cost. You are guessing and then passing it off as fact.

Pretty much everything you write is opinion and not fact based.

And neither do you.

Most of what both of us post here is opinion and not fact.

My above take is based on what Adams has said on the record. What facts are you basing your opinions on?

 

[Irie]

Cool, you still have no idea what was available and the cost. You are guessing and then passing it off as fact.

Pretty much everything you write is opinion and not fact based.

His opinions are logic based and grounded in reality though.

Posters that think it should be easy for Adams to pull off one sided trade coups are not living in reality.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Adams needs to be fired for Power extension alone. I can't get over it.

 

[RefsIdeas]

Adams needs to be fired for Power extension alone. I can't get over it.

+ the Samuelsson contract. Maybe even the Cozens one.

The Sabres have been nowhere near the cap ceiling so I feel like the majority of people on here don't even really care about the extensions - but cap space is such an asset in this league. Adams just throws around these deals and most fans applauded. It's mind-boggling.

The Power + Samuelsson ones were unforced errors too. Neither was an RFA and said they wouldn't re-sign. Unless Adams had an inkling they'd pull a Tkachuck, he banked on them being better the following year and they haven't been. Had he waited a year with both he would've got them both for less (or in Samuelsson's case, maybe not bring him back at all).

 

[joshjull]

On the flip side he retained the assets the next GM can appropriate in trades to fills the holes he never could.

One of the biggest holes we’ve had all season is the #1 and #2 center spots.

Tage
Last season -> 47g 94pts
This season -> 25g 55pt pace at the moment.

Cozens
Last season -> 31g 68pts
This season -> 14g 44pt pace tat the moment.

Thats not regression, thats a complete collapse of their production. I’m pretty confident neither you, myself or Adams thought these guys would be a problem. They’ve been a huge issue along with the top line overall and the top 3 dmen. Not sure how any depth additions would be making up for that.

 

[SharkInABoloTie]

From the BN text-only interview:

The GM wasn’t happy with Dylan Cozens’ discussion with reporters that the club was “soft” after a loss in Carolina earlier this month, probably because dirty laundry usually stays in house.

Cozens was bang-on in this view, and the trade helped in that area.

“I don’t like the word because I don’t think that’s indicative of the people we have in the room,” Adams said. “These are competitive guys, for sure. We just haven’t competed at a high enough level consistently enough to get the results you need to win. I understand the comment. I don’t like it. We have competitive people in the room, but now we have to collectively dig in and compete.”

f*** this guy. Such an idiotic, cowardly, non-leader

 

[thewookie1]

+ the Samuelsson contract. Maybe even the Cozens one.

The Sabres have been nowhere near the cap ceiling so I feel like the majority of people on here don't even really care about the extensions - but cap space is such an asset in this league. Adams just throws around these deals and most fans applauded. It's mind-boggling.

The Power + Samuelsson ones were unforced errors too. Neither was an RFA and said they wouldn't re-sign. Unless Adams had an inkling they'd pull a Tkachuck, he banked on them being better the following year and they haven't been. Had he waited a year with both he would've got them both for less (or in Samuelsson's case, maybe not bring him back at all).

In both cases the players had shown positive signs. Power will eventually reach his contractual terms but he's presently underperforming. With how players are demanding shorter terms with high AAVs nowadays, Power may have opted for a 4 year contract had we not extended him.

 

[RefsIdeas]

In both cases the players had shown positive signs. Power will eventually reach his contractual terms but he's presently underperforming. With how players are demanding shorter terms with high AAVs nowadays, Power may have opted for a 4 year contract had we not extended him.

What leverage would Power have? He was due to be an RFA without arb rights. If he continues to play at this level throughout the season then he should be delighted he’s even being offered a 7 year contract.

 

[toddkaz]

His opinions are logic based and grounded in reality though.

Posters that think it should be easy for Adams to pull off one sided trade coups are not living in reality.

Wrong, unless he is in the room he doesn't know anything that went on and neither do you.

So to say the ONLY way Adams could improve the team is by trading Benson++ is just asinine.

Its a copout because you like Adams so you make excuses for him.

 

[BFLO]

Picks are generally valued higher than prospects are when it comes to the trade market.

A GM would rather pick their guy than take on a guy that another team picked.

There are trades that likely could have been made without moving their 2023 1st. But, the 2023 1st was likely the most valuable trade piece that other GMs were asking for outside of guys that Adams had zero interest in moving whatsoever.

And your love for people acting like they know what conversations between GMs look like can just as easily be applied to your take that Adams could trade "small skilled" prospects for guys that would make for "an actual team".

Are you sure about that? I think it's the opposite. Seems to me that GMs don't want to give up their prospects and are more willing to trade picks.

 

[Irie]

Wrong, unless he is in the room he doesn't know anything that went on and neither do you.

So to say the ONLY way Adams could improve the team is by trading Benson++ is just asinine.

Its a copout because you like Adams so you make excuses for him.

I don't really like Adams, but I dislike lies, bullshit and ignorance even less.

If you were paying attention around the league last summer, multiple GMs said that every team is looking for the same thing (which was what the sabres were looking for too) and the prices were sky high and the options were limited.

Those are sources I trust as insider information.

 

[Chainshot]

Are you sure about that? I think it's the opposite. Seems to me that GMs don't want to give up their prospects and are more willing to trade picks.

There is some depression of value of the prospect almost the moment they are selected though, particularly as they move through the development cycle and become more of a known quantity. Picks have that appeal of potential.

 

[BFLO]

There is some depression of value of the prospect almost the moment they are selected though, particularly as they move through the development cycle and become more of a known quantity. Picks have that appeal of potential.

Only on HFboards does a prospects value automatically go down after being selected.

If a prospect is developing well their value goes up rather than down.

GM's will take picks in trade compensation rather than the kind of prospects that the other GM is willing to give up, because the other GM is only willing to trade the prospects who aren't doing well.

Do you think most GM's would want Benson or the 13th overall pick in this draft? All of them would take Benson.

Kulich or the 28th pick in this years draft? All of them take Kulich

Ostlund or 16th? They all take 16th.

 

[Chainshot]

Only on HFboards does a prospects value automatically go down after being selected.

If a prospect is developing well their value goes up rather than down.

GM's will take picks in trade compensation rather than the kind of prospects that the other GM is willing to give up, because the other GM is only willing to trade the prospects who aren't doing well.

Do you think most GM's would want Benson or the 13th overall pick in this draft? All of them would take Benson.

Kulich or the 28th pick in this years draft? All of them take Kulich

Ostlund or 16th? They all take 16th.

Based on comments from folks like Friedman, prospect value does actually go down after selection.

 

[Ace]

The most value a pick has is the moment before it’s used. Because teams value different prospect differently. Of course some player values rise post pick…Kulich would get you more today than the 28th pick would have cost in 2022. But...most go down after you pick just based on an understanding of how teams value players. Every team might want say…pick 7 in the draft because they see a player worthy of the pick (or more). When you put a name on the pick some teams won’t share the thought of value thus shrinking the market for it.

 

[Tatanka]

Only on HFboards does a prospects value automatically go down after being selected.

If a prospect is developing well their value goes up rather than down.

GM's will take picks in trade compensation rather than the kind of prospects that the other GM is willing to give up, because the other GM is only willing to trade the prospects who aren't doing well.

Do you think most GM's would want Benson or the 13th overall pick in this draft? All of them would take Benson.

Kulich or the 28th pick in this years draft? All of them take Kulich

Ostlund or 16th? They all take 16th.

You are making the mistake of trying to equate the position with the player. If today you offered the Kullich or the 2024 first, that could be the 5th to first overall. A GM would love the potential of picking in the top 5 over Kullich 9/10.