Kevyn Adams GM thread

[stealth1]

How many years will that take?

So they are trying to evaluate guys that aren't in the NHL and haven't played in the NHL and aren't NHL ready? Sounds about right for the Buffalo Sabres.

I get it, many are tired of missing the playoffs for 12 straight seasons. I think next season they will take the next step. They are what the Red Wings were last season. They would be fighting for a playoff spot if Thompson, Dahlin and Cozens were playing like they were last season.

As mentioned by someone earlier, the prospects that are tradable don't have a lot of value. It's also also hard to get guys to come to Buffalo unless you overpay them. To be honest in free agency most of players available weren't much better than what's already here.

 

[toddkaz]

I get it, many are tired of missing the playoffs for 12 straight seasons. I think next season they will take the next step. They are what the Red Wings were last season. They would be fighting for a playoff spot if Thompson, Dahlin and Cozens were playing like they were last season.

As mentioned by someone earlier, the prospects that are tradable don't have a lot of value. It's also also hard to get guys to come to Buffalo unless you overpay them. To be honest in free agency most of players available weren't much better than what's already here.

From what I read posters posting this organization is such a clown show they are incapable of running an NHL franchise at the same speed of other NHL franchises.

I wonder if the Bruins, Avalanche or Lighting take 2 years to teach a system or years to figure out prospects.

You know most NHL franchises build their team without waiting years to figure out their prospects.

Sure you want your prospects to succeed but you don't wait 3 years to get a top 4 defender because you are trying to figure out if you got one in the system but from what you posted thats what it sounds like they are doing.

You build your on ice product regardless of what your prospects are doing because they are unproven.

 

[stealth1]

From what I read posters posting this organization is such a clown show they are incapable of running an NHL franchise at the same speed of other NHL franchises.

I wonder if the Bruins, Avalanche or Lighting take 2 years to teach a system or years to figure out prospects.

You know most NHL franchises build their team without waiting years to figure out their prospects.

Sure you want your prospects to succeed but you don't wait 3 years to get a top 4 defender because you are trying to figure out if you got one in the system but from what you posted thats what it sounds like they are doing.

You build your on ice product regardless of what your prospects are doing because they are unproven.

IMO they aren't waiting on the prospects to succeed. The hope was for Thompson, Cozens, Dahlin and Power to take the next step this season. So far that hasn't happened. Yes coaching is part of that.

As far as prospects go, the guys they can trade aren't worth much. I'm not trading Savoie to get this team into the playoffs this season

 

[sabremike]

I get it, many are tired of missing the playoffs for 12 straight seasons. I think next season they will take the next step. They are what the Red Wings were last season. They would be fighting for a playoff spot if Thompson, Dahlin and Cozens were playing like they were last season.

As mentioned by someone earlier, the prospects that are tradable don't have a lot of value. It's also also hard to get guys to come to Buffalo unless you overpay them. To be honest in free agency most of players available weren't much better than what's already here.

The Wings fired the single worst coach in the league after last season. We will not be doing likewise after this season.

 

[stealth1]

The Wings fired the single worst coach in the league after last season. We will not be doing likewise after this season.

That coach was hired at the end of the 2022 season. I can see Granato being fired at the end of this season if everyone is healthy and Quinn is back and they don't go on a run.

I feel a lot of you that are upset the most wanted them to go all in this season just to make the playoffs. Trade Savoie, picks and prospects, spend to the cap and get this team into the playoffs at all costs. If they fall back next season who cares they ended the drought.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

IMO they aren't waiting on the prospects to succeed. The hope was for Thompson, Cozens, Dahlin and Power to take the next step this season. So far that hasn't happened. Yes coaching is part of that.

As far as prospects go, the guys they can trade aren't worth much. I'm not trading Savoie to get this team into the playoffs this season

Honest question - is Savoie (or Rosen) going to bring a different or dynamic element over and above what the roster already has going for it via Mitts, Cozens, Quinn, Peterka (anyone else)? If so then let's see what they can do in a Sabres uniform. If not...

...I'm not nearly as impatient as others are about the playoff drought or any recent failure, but if we have redundant prospects I'm fine with trading any of them.

 

[May Day 10]

I get it, many are tired of missing the playoffs for 12 straight seasons. I think next season they will take the next step. They are what the Red Wings were last season. They would be fighting for a playoff spot if Thompson, Dahlin and Cozens were playing like they were last season.

As mentioned by someone earlier, the prospects that are tradable don't have a lot of value. It's also also hard to get guys to come to Buffalo unless you overpay them. To be honest in free agency most of players available weren't much better than what's already here.

I have been seeing versions of this post every season as far back as I can remember.

Last year it was that we were going to take the next step this season and we were "New Jersey".

The Sabres could have used a meanie like Austin Watson who signed for the league minimum for 1 year with Tampa. I would take him over either of the veteran 2 Pegula favorites they had to re-sign.

I feel a lot of you that are upset the most wanted them to go all in this season just to make the playoffs. Trade Savoie, picks and prospects, spend to the cap and get this team into the playoffs at all costs. If they fall back next season who cares they ended the drought.

So falling back this season it is then. Winning is not a priority here. We are perpetually in year 1 or 2 of a 4 year rebuild plan. Losing has been and is an acceptable result.

 

[stealth1]

I have been seeing versions of this post every season as far back as I can remember.

Last year it was that we were going to take the next step this season and we were "New Jersey".

The Sabres could have used a meanie like Austin Watson who signed for the league minimum for 1 year with Tampa. I would take him over either of the veteran 2 Pegula favorites they had to re-sign.



So falling back this season it is then. Winning is not a priority here. We are perpetually in year 1 or 2 of a 4 year rebuild plan. Losing has been and is an acceptable result.

It is a about winning but it's also about building a team that wins year in and year out. It's not the depth that's the problem. The young core hasn't taken the next step. Trading guys and adding more depth wouldn't make this team much better.

 

[TageGod]

I get it, many are tired of missing the playoffs for 12 straight seasons. I think next season they will take the next step. They are what the Red Wings were last season. They would be fighting for a playoff spot if Thompson, Dahlin and Cozens were playing like they were last season.

As mentioned by someone earlier, the prospects that are tradable don't have a lot of value. It's also also hard to get guys to come to Buffalo unless you overpay them. To be honest in free agency most of players available weren't much better than what's already here.

What. Have you seen our prospect pool? Everyone is on the table at this point.

 

[stealth1]

What. Have you seen our prospect pool? Everyone is on the table at this point.

Yeah our prospect pool is good. I'm not necessarily against trading them. I'm just not sure adding more depth makes them a playoff team. Unless the top guys start playing like they did last season this team isn't going anywhere.

 

[sabremike]

That coach was hired at the end of the 2022 season. I can see Granato being fired at the end of this season if everyone is healthy and Quinn is back and they don't go on a run.

I feel a lot of you that are upset the most wanted them to go all in this season just to make the playoffs. Trade Savoie, picks and prospects, spend to the cap and get this team into the playoffs at all costs. If they fall back next season who cares they ended the drought.

Or they could fire the coach who is completely in over his head and hire one of the numerous proven NHL coaches with long track records of success. Unfortunately Granato is our coach through 2025 no matter what happens because our awful owner has decided under no circumstance will he pay someone not to coach ever again.

 

[May Day 10]

Or they could fire the coach who is completely in over his head and hire one of the numerous proven NHL coaches with long track records of success. Unfortunately Granato is our coach through 2025 no matter what happens because our awful owner has decided under no circumstance will he pay someone not to coach ever again.

2026

 

[BFLO]

I get it, many are tired of missing the playoffs for 12 straight seasons. I think next season they will take the next step. They are what the Red Wings were last season. They would be fighting for a playoff spot if Thompson, Dahlin and Cozens were playing like they were last season.

As mentioned by someone earlier, the prospects that are tradable don't have a lot of value. It's also also hard to get guys to come to Buffalo unless you overpay them. To be honest in free agency most of players available weren't much better than what's already here.

How are we like the Wings of last season? They started hot and were in a playoff spot until the 1st game of February. We've been cold all season.

I also don't think our roster construction is anything like the Wings. The Wings have a much higher ratio of veterans. They have 3 players on the roster under the age of 24. The Sabres have 9.

Detroit is icing an actual NHL roster, rather than a prospect development team like the Sabres.

Detroit has a higher floor in the short term, but I think they have a lower ceiling long term. I think they missed out on any truly game breaking talents during their time at the bottom of the league.

 

[HOOats]

Ah yes, the vaunted Red Wings, owners of two more wins than the Sabres, riding a three game losing streak.

Every team but like four in the league is vulnerable to the ruts of performance, ref luck, injury luck, puck luck, etc that we've already felt the brunt of. Things can look very different after a few weeks, but most have already accepted the Monte Carlo fallacy that we're destined to alternate wins and losses the rest of the year. Couldn't be me.

 

[stealth1]

How are we like the Wings of last season? They started hot and were in a playoff spot until the 1st game of February. We've been cold all season.

I also don't think our roster construction is anything like the Wings. The Wings have a much higher ratio of veterans. They have 3 players on the roster under the age of 24. The Sabres have 9.

Detroit is icing an actual NHL roster, rather than a prospect development team like the Sabres.

Detroit has a higher floor in the short term, but I think they have a lower ceiling long term. I think they missed out on any truly game breaking talents during their time at the bottom of the league.

I'm talking last seasons Wings. This season they added a lot of Vets to try and make the playoffs. Buffalo stayed the course and tried to see if he young guys good take the next step on their own.

I would rather have higher floor in the long term and build a consistent winner than go the Wings route. Sign a bunch of guys and go all in to make it. With the way they are playing right now they don't look like much of an improved team.

 

[sabremike]

Ah yes, the vaunted Red Wings, owners of two more wins than the Sabres, riding a three game losing streak.

Every team but like four in the league is vulnerable to the ruts of performance, ref luck, injury luck, puck luck, etc that we've already felt the brunt of. Things can look very different after a few weeks, but most have already accepted the Monte Carlo fallacy that we're destined to alternate wins and losses the rest of the year. Couldn't be me.

Oddly enough the big mistake they made that might end up their undoing was the one we lucked out on avoiding.

 

[BFLO]

I'm talking last seasons Wings. This season they added a lot of Vets to try and make the playoffs. Buffalo stayed the course and tried to see if he young guys good take the next step on their own.

I would rather have higher floor in the long term and build a consistent winner than go the Wings route. Sign a bunch of guys and go all in to make it. With the way they are playing right now they don't look like much of an improved team.

The Wings of last year also had way more veterans than this years Sabres.

The Sabres of 2023-2024 have 11 players age 24 or younger playing significant time, and with Quinn back you can make it 12. If we count all players age 24 or younger who have played any time this season it's 16.

The Wings of 2022-2023 had 4 players age 24 or young playing significant time and had 9 players age 24 or younger log any ice time.

 

[BFLO]

Ah yes, the vaunted Red Wings, owners of two more wins than the Sabres, riding a three game losing streak.

Every team but like four in the league is vulnerable to the ruts of performance, ref luck, injury luck, puck luck, etc that we've already felt the brunt of. Things can look very different after a few weeks, but most have already accepted the Monte Carlo fallacy that we're destined to alternate wins and losses the rest of the year. Couldn't be me.

I'd rather be us than the Wings, even if they sneak into the playoffs before us.

I think Yzerman leaned in too hard to filling out the roster with veterans and did not collect enough high end talent, where as Adams has leaned too far away from filling out the roster with veterans and has an abundance of high end talent.

 

[HOOats]

The Wings of last year also had way more veterans than this years Sabres.

The Sabres of 2023-2024 have 11 players age 24 or younger playing significant time, and with Quinn back you can make it 12. If we count all players age 24 or younger who have played any time this season it's 16.

The Wings of 2022-2023 had 4 players age 24 or young playing significant time and had 9 players age 24 or younger log any ice time.

I agree, our future is much, much brighter than theirs.

Maybe we can start making snarky banners for other teams who start hot, their genius GMs mortgaging their future, and still miss the playoffs?

We can do the UFA sugar high in a few years if this build doesn't work. That's not what we're doing right now. I'd prefer a bit more vet supplementation like plenty of others, but it is what it is.

We'd all be better off letting the 12 years thing go, as impossible as it seems for some. It's a sunk emotional cost. It should not impact the FO's decision making. Present and future are all that matter (and exist - maybe we need a philosophy OT thread).

This wasn't at you BFLO, just riffing.

 

[TehDoak]

You obviously never played hockey yourself.

You have obviously never coached or been involved in player development.

You frankly do not understand the process of development.

These are 19, 20, 21, 22 year old kids here. Many of them won't reach their potential until their mid 20s or later. Development is never linear. Organizations give up on prospects too soon all the time and they go on to become great players with other teams.

Adams and Granato are still trying to evaluate what they have in the young players, along with guys like Kulich, Savoie, Ostlund, etc.

They are going to have to move a bunch of assets to bring in the quality required to make this team a contender. Who do you move, who do you keep?

This is not like football, where players peak a few years after being drafted. It is a time consuming process that takes years, and even then, it is easy to get wrong.

First off, you mentioned in a previous post they were evaluating veterans (Mittelstadt, Jokijarhu, etc) still. which is what the 'bizarro world' comment came from. They know who these guys are. And if they don't....that is a problem.

As for this:

You are acting as if giving up something of value for a good NHL ready player is some sort of crime.

Organizations that fill needs don't sit and wait 2 years to make a decision on what to do with a draftee. It's why its a risk. Because if a player is drafted and does well, guess what, other teams see that too, and when its time for a trade, they want the player that is doing well.

You don't draft a whole ton of prospects and go "I can't do anything, I've gotta see what I have here with this prospects". Its a crap shoot. You see what your team needs (both immediately and long term) and do your best to fill those needs. And if you want good players, those cost good assets.

Evaluations change as time goes on, sure. And they shouldn't empty the to try to force your way into contention. But to not do anything because "WE NEED TO EVALUATE WHAT WE HAVE" when you have been the GM for 4 years is completely bonkers. You use the info you have to make the best decisions and weigh the risks against the rewards.

It's one thing if you recently switched GMs and they wanted to take an organization wide evaluation before making plans and making trades, that is normal. But to defend a GM sitting on their hands because they are still in evaluation mode in year 4 is just weird. Because for every prospect that hits, you are going to have 2-3 that fail. You can't let the fear of a young player developing elsewhere paralyze you from making strides on improving the roster now.

 

[BFLO]

I agree, our future is much, much brighter than theirs.

Maybe we can start making snarky banners for other teams who start hot, their genius GMs mortgaging their future, and still miss the playoffs?

We can do the UFA sugar high in a few years if this build doesn't work. That's not what we're doing right now. I'd prefer a bit more vet supplementation like plenty of others, but it is what it is.

We'd all be better off letting the 12 years thing go, as impossible as it seems for some. It's a sunk emotional cost. It should not impact the FO's decision making. Present and future are all that matter (and exist - maybe we need a philosophy OT thread).

This wasn't at you BFLO, just riffing.

I can let off the 12 year thing (soon to be 13)

But how do you reconcile the last 4 years under Adams? Or even the last 3 if you give Adams a pass on his first season with Kreuger?

 

[stealth1]

I can let off the 12 year thing (soon to be 13)

But how do you reconcile the last 4 years under Adams? Or even the last 3 if you give Adams a pass on his first season with Kreuger?

Could he have added some more vets sure but outside of that it all hangs on the young core to take the next step. So far he's done a decent job. The goaltending has been pretty good this year. He did upgrade the defense. Getting Greenway was a good addition.

What's hurt this team is trying to play a more defensive game and it's hurt their offense more than I thought it would. Coaching is part of it but also the young guys have to figure it out.

 

[Beerz]

I believe that Granato felt like the team needed more physicality on the blueline, and I think Clifton was probably at least partially his idea.

Lyubushkin was supposed to provide that, but he was always battling injury and really was only a physical difference in a handful of games last year. It was pretty clear with Granato only playing him 8 minutes in back to back games with the playoffs on the line at the end of the season that he was not a trusted option.

Boosh's inability to break the puck out when he had time last season and holding it too long leading to turnovers quite often likely led to the decision. I think Adams and Granato felt they could get a physical D in Clifton that could PK and work the breakout better for nearly the same cap cost.

I think a few posters on this board anointed Clifton the next top-4 savior, I am not sure the front office felt the same way. I believe he was realistically viewed as a #5 that can play in the #4 role in a pinch around the league. My guess is that he was mainly brought in to be an upgraded Boosh replacement.

I was not a huge fan of the signing over the summer, as I stated I did not think he was a top 4 option, but I also admitted that I liked the depth it gave the team and how it increased the D pairing options. Not the worst signing, and it did look better after the Lyubushkin trade.

Considering they started him off with Dahlin ..im not sure that's how the front office viewed him.

 

[Beerz]

Honest question - is Savoie (or Rosen) going to bring a different or dynamic element over and above what the roster already has going for it via Mitts, Cozens, Quinn, Peterka (anyone else)? If so then let's see what they can do in a Sabres uniform. If not...

...I'm not nearly as impatient as others are about the playoff drought or any recent failure, but if we have redundant prospects I'm fine with trading any of them.

That and all these prospects stock has risen since they were drafted.. Id want to cash in on their value now instead of being patient and having them wilt out and become worth next to nothing.

 

[HOOats]

That and all these prospects stock has risen since they were drafted.. Id want to cash in on their value now instead of being patient and having them wilt out and become worth next to nothing.

Agree with this, but we're right in the middle of the window for it I think. It opened over the summer and should last at least another year as we track prospect progress. If Adams can't find enough value in prospect-for-vet deals, he'll have to do some prospect-for-picks deals to exchange some assets into future currency.

We're going to be wondering when the Great Thin-Out will happen until it's actually underway.