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Player Discussion Kevin Shattenkirk

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Advanced stats is the worst term ever. Analytics I can buy. Big data is the key. The work is about getting big data in more fields, which creates some new matrics. Big data in new areas (be it about some uncovered part of the game or in an area were the big data says a lot of things and you want to cut away most of those things but one).

People complaining on a stat not being ‘advanced’ :facepalms x one trillion billion ;)
 
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Machinehead said:
I would bet anything that if Gilmour were the one getting hard usage and getting caved, people would like him better.

Stats are the results and usage is the context. Everyone keeps doing that the other way around. That's the misunderstanding.
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The thing is, my eye-test -- called -- Pionk from the get go.

This is what I wrote about Pionk after seing him in the AHL on 19 November 2017, while he was not playing a ton, while he was not scoring, please read (seriously please read it, try to have an open mind):
Ola said:
[...]
My take is that Neal Pionk is playing really good hockey for HFD. He rarely get into any trouble defensively, he moves the puck really well and is just very solid. I definitely think he is the best prospect down there disregarding Chytil who isn’t really compareable as a fresh 18 y/o with tons of potential and TDA who didn’t play (although I am probably leaning towards Pionk there).

A bit typical of Pionk is that he went after a Utica player (Joseph Labata) who dropped a Whitney, and this guy LeBata is 6’5 and Pionk is 5’11 and Pionk first holds his own for a series of punches and then drops him.

Just saying, I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again, but I think Pionk basically is ready and should be up sooner rather than later. It would really hurt if Pionk didn’t become a player because I wouldn’t only be wrong I would be very very wrong lol because I really like him.

Pts no big issue for me because he is on the second PP unit behind Gilmour-Sproul on the first, and he create a fair amount of offense. My biggest concern is RD logjam. If Pionk got a shot — I think he would take it. Will he get a shot?
[...]
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This was I wrote about him in camp, on September 19, 2017:
"Neal Pionk was great with the puck, but I also want to point out that he plays a very solid defensive game. Calm and collected, very good position and timing in how he moves. Keeps a good distance. I would have zero problems playing this kid in the NHL right away."

Five days later:
"Neal Pionk has come in and really pushed all competition. This kid hasn't been a super highly touted UFA signing, but he -- today -- look like he might be ready to play in the NHL as a RH PMD!! Sure he is small and he is of course a rookie, but he plays a very smart defensive game too."

When I wrote this, its my way to say that I am dead certain. I can be wrong, but this time I couldn't understand how I could be wrong. I would have mailed in the eye-test if I was wrong:
"Just saying, I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again, but I think Pionk basically is ready and should be up sooner rather than later. It would really hurt if Pionk didn’t become a player because I wouldn’t only be wrong I would be very very wrong lol because I really like him."

I had no stats to go by. His stats wasn't good. Love and behold a few months later he is averaging 23 minutes a night on a first pair in the NHL during the last 10 games of the season., playing more than Skjei and everyone else. Seriously -- have you ever called anything with your the eye test sucks approach? Use analytics, its great. So much can be learned from it. But also try to learn and understand the game. Don't think you were born knowing everything. Work hard and you will learn it.

Pionk has a long way to go to become a star in the NHL or something like that. But he is a good young NHL capable defender.
 
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silverfish said:
I SAW THE NOTIFICATION. POST IT. LET'S DO THIS :P
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Well then I think I said something like I'm not sure how much hockey I watch compared to anybody here but I'm 100% certain that I watch more hockey than anybody that thinks Kevin shattenkirk is anything but a hindrance to his goaltender...
 
If you need to watch anything more than a handful of games, nevermind 200, to see that he sucks in his own end then you're clearly doing something wrong..
 
Ola said:
The thing is, my eye-test -- called -- Pionk from the get go.

This is what I wrote about Pionk after seing him in the AHL on 19 November 2017, while he was not playing a ton, while he was not scoring, please read (seriously please read it, try to have an open mind):


This was I wrote about him in camp, on September 19, 2017:
"Neal Pionk was great with the puck, but I also want to point out that he plays a very solid defensive game. Calm and collected, very good position and timing in how he moves. Keeps a good distance. I would have zero problems playing this kid in the NHL right away."

Five days later:
"Neal Pionk has come in and really pushed all competition. This kid hasn't been a super highly touted UFA signing, but he -- today -- look like he might be ready to play in the NHL as a RH PMD!! Sure he is small and he is of course a rookie, but he plays a very smart defensive game too."

When I wrote this, its my way to say that I am dead certain. I can be wrong, but this time I couldn't understand how I could be wrong. I would have mailed in the eye-test if I was wrong:
"Just saying, I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again, but I think Pionk basically is ready and should be up sooner rather than later. It would really hurt if Pionk didn’t become a player because I wouldn’t only be wrong I would be very very wrong lol because I really like him."

I had no stats to go by. His stats wasn't good. Love and behold a few months later he is averaging 23 minutes a night on a first pair in the NHL during the last 10 games of the season., playing more than Skjei and everyone else. Seriously -- have you ever called anything with your the eye test sucks approach? Use analytics, its great. So much can be learned from it. But also try to learn and understand the game. Don't think you were born knowing everything. Work hard and you will learn it.

Pionk has a long way to go to become a star in the NHL or something like that. But he is a good young NHL capable defender.
Click to expand...

not only is this nice to read, but i'll one up ya. i've been all about this kid since watching him as a frosh and what i evaluated as the best dman on a loaded umd team. neal pionk is just a gamer, thats the most complimentary and succinct i can be. my first coaching choice was actually to hire sandelin? from umd. i also want to say we need to make it a point to draft perunovich. he may be undersized and was passed over once, but he was the best player on the national champions and it wasnt close. he was also by far the best dman on the usa wjc team.
 
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Ola said:
The thing is, my eye-test -- called -- Pionk from the get go.

This is what I wrote about Pionk after seing him in the AHL on 19 November 2017, while he was not playing a ton, while he was not scoring, please read (seriously please read it, try to have an open mind):


This was I wrote about him in camp, on September 19, 2017:
"Neal Pionk was great with the puck, but I also want to point out that he plays a very solid defensive game. Calm and collected, very good position and timing in how he moves. Keeps a good distance. I would have zero problems playing this kid in the NHL right away."

Five days later:
"Neal Pionk has come in and really pushed all competition. This kid hasn't been a super highly touted UFA signing, but he -- today -- look like he might be ready to play in the NHL as a RH PMD!! Sure he is small and he is of course a rookie, but he plays a very smart defensive game too."

When I wrote this, its my way to say that I am dead certain. I can be wrong, but this time I couldn't understand how I could be wrong. I would have mailed in the eye-test if I was wrong:
"Just saying, I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again, but I think Pionk basically is ready and should be up sooner rather than later. It would really hurt if Pionk didn’t become a player because I wouldn’t only be wrong I would be very very wrong lol because I really like him."

I had no stats to go by. His stats wasn't good. Love and behold a few months later he is averaging 23 minutes a night on a first pair in the NHL during the last 10 games of the season., playing more than Skjei and everyone else. Seriously -- have you ever called anything with your the eye test sucks approach? Use analytics, its great. So much can be learned from it. But also try to learn and understand the game. Don't think you were born knowing everything. Work hard and you will learn it.

Pionk has a long way to go to become a star in the NHL or something like that. But he is a good young NHL capable defender.
Click to expand...

You may not believe me
What do all you know?
That's a looong way to go
just to say "i told you so"

I accidentally rhymed and for some reason this happened.

To your other point, i agree, dismissing the eye test is really dumb. Sometimes i think people forget that another term for "eye test" is "actually watching a player play the game". It's fascinating that anyone would dismiss actually watching a player play hockey as unimportant... when trying to analyze how well a player plays hockey.

Don't know if that happened here. I didnt read the whole convo. But i kn9w some people do that
 
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