Value of: Kevin Labanc

[Kcoyote3]

Long debated on the Sharks forum. What is Kevin Labanc worth to your team? realistically what is the best offer you would give for Labanc? This isn't meant to be a pissing match, I'm just really curious what a contending team would give for him

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[cwede]

breaking up already?
so soon after not-so-secret dance, the $1M 1-year extension, followed by the 4-year extension

lots of depth, secondary-scoring wings in the league,
>$4M may be hefty Cap Hit

but this list is surprisingly uninspiring, lots of older or light-offense guys
Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Juxtaposer]

I’ll bite. Many Sharks fans dislike this guy because he can, at time, look lackadaisical in the defensive zone. And that’s a fair criticism, but what is overlooked is that he’s a very good scorer (he scores at a borderline first line rate at even strength) and has solid possession metrics. He can snipe the puck and is a strong playmaker as well. Not the fastest skater, but very crafty.

He’s no Bergeron defensively, nor is he particularly good on the PP despite being fed oodles of PP time, but he’s a very good complementary offensive winger who will play up to the ability of his center. For example, when Couture was on fire to start the season, Labanc looked fantastic as well. Engaged, energetic, and focused. When Couture got hurt and his play fell off a cliff half way through the season, Labanc fell on old habits.

If you have a strong center core, then Labanc is a great option for your team. He won’t drive a line on his own, but he’ll enhance a play-driving center.

 

[themelkman]

Labancs point totals aren’t flashy but you have to realize he’s a power play specialist on a power play deficient team. Almost all his points are 5v5 and his analytics are beautiful. He can be a 55 point guy, he just needs to have a power play that isn’t dog poop around him

 

[TGWL]

He's more of a guy you go after during free agency to add to your team, not a really a player you spend good assets to acquire, unless SJ are looking for magic beans.

 

[BannedFromCDC]

Nate Schmidt straight up.

 

[Irie]

Long debated on the Sharks forum. What is Kevin Labanc worth to your team? realistically what is the best offer you would give for Labanc? This isn't meant to be a pissing match, I'm just really curious what a contending team would give for him

Realistically in today's flat cap world and Labanc coming off the year he had and having 3 more years at nearly 5 million per, he has negative value. I'm honestly pretty sure there isn't a team in the league that would take him for free.

He'd more than likely clear if the Sharks waived him.

That isn't to say he can't be a useful player, just that with the covid cap situation, contracts like Lebanc or Gostisbehere are really hard to fit for teams right now.

 

[Super Hans]

I could see the Avs being interested if they lose a forward to Seattle (Donskoi/Burakovsky) and can move some cap out (Graves/Compher). Probably won't re-sign Saad. Probably wouldn't give up a 1st and they are short on 2nds. Maybe something around a 3rd + Bowers or Kaut

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Nate Schmidt straight up.

Schmidt isn't going to make sense for us. If we're running the same sort of team next season, our top four is Ferraro-Burns and Knyzhov-Karlsson. While Schmidt is certainly better than Knyzhov, I can't see them demoting him after a strong first full season. And I can't see the Sharks making a play for a d-man that they'd put on the 3rd pairing.

If the Sharks are looking to make a hockey trade with Labanc involved, we're probably looking at him for a 3C and possibly a small add to cover any potential difference. I don't see a 3C on Vancouver that would fit the bill. If the team is looking for futures and then find that 3C some other way, I could see the Sharks trading Vancouver Labanc for a contract and a 1st in '22.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Realistically in today's flat cap world and Lebanc coming off the year he had and having 3 more years at nearly 5 million per, he has negative value. I'm honestly pretty sure there isn't a team in the league that would take him for free.

He'd more than likely clear if the Sharks waived him.

That isn't to say he can't be a useful player, just that with the covid cap situation, contracts like Lebanc or Gostisbehere are really hard to fit for teams right now.

During the season I'd be inclined to agree with you. In the offseason, there's no chance Labanc clears waivers. Neither would Gostisbehere.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

His contract looked pricey last year and only looks pricier after this year. I think the market for him is very thin.

 

[Super Hans]

I could see the Avs being interested if they lose a forward to Seattle (Donskoi/Burakovsky) and can move some cap out (Graves/Compher). Probably won't re-sign Saad. Probably wouldn't give up a 1st and they are short on 2nds. Maybe something around a 3rd + Bowers or Kaut

Schmidt isn't going to make sense for us. If we're running the same sort of team next season, our top four is Ferraro-Burns and Knyzhov-Karlsson. While Schmidt is certainly better than Knyzhov, I can't see them demoting him after a strong first full season. And I can't see the Sharks making a play for a d-man that they'd put on the 3rd pairing.

If the Sharks are looking to make a hockey trade with Labanc involved, we're probably looking at him for a 3C and possibly a small add to cover any potential difference. I don't see a 3C on Vancouver that would fit the bill. If the team is looking for futures and then find that 3C some other way, I could see the Sharks trading Vancouver Labanc for a contract and a 1st in '22.

You want Compher? He's played a lot of 3C and can shows signs of it, but has settled in as the Avs 4C.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You want Compher? He's played a lot of 3C and can shows signs of it, but has settled in as the Avs 4C.

For Labanc? Not unless there's a significant add to go with it. I don't have much confidence in Compher as a C and the Sharks are pretty knee deep in failed centers as it is.

 

[Super Hans]

For Labanc? Not unless there's a significant add to go with it. I don't have much confidence in Compher as a C and the Sharks are pretty knee deep in failed centers as it is.

I was thinking of adding him into the 3rd + Bowers or Kaut mix. He's failed to consistently live up to being a 3C, but he's also still useful on the PK and not a total cap dump. Although I don't see Bowers being anything more than 3C ceiling and could just be adding to your pile of failed centers.

 

[Irie]

During the season I'd be inclined to agree with you. In the offseason, there's no chance Labanc clears waivers. Neither would Gostisbehere.

In a regular cap year, this would definitely be the case, but with a lot of teams cutting payroll and all but the top tier of UFAs taking big discounts, i am not so sure.

There are several solid top 6 UFA options this year, and i think we will once again see guys signing at a discount. With the term and money left on Lebanc's deal, smart GMs will look to the UFA market first. Not many contenders are going to have a lot of cap space available, and most internal cap teams would probably rather promote an ELC for development than spend that kind of cap on a guy like Lebanc.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

In a regular cap year, this would definitely be the case, but with a lot of teams cutting payroll and all but the top tier of UFAs taking big discounts, i am not so sure.

There are several solid top 6 UFA options this year, and i think we will once again see guys signing at a discount. With the term and money left on Lebanc's deal, smart GMs will look to the UFA market first. Not many contenders are going to have a lot of cap space available, and most internal cap teams would probably rather promote an ELC for development than spend that kind of cap on a guy like Lebanc.

A lot of teams will be cutting payroll by default this offseason. Between expired contracts and an expansion franchise, there's still enough freed up money floating around where if either of those two players were placed on waivers, they'd be claimed by multiple teams.

 

[Irie]

A lot of teams will be cutting payroll by default this offseason. Between expired contracts and an expansion franchise, there's still enough freed up money floating around where if either of those two players were placed on waivers, they'd be claimed by multiple teams.

Maybe. Ghost with only 2 years would be more likely, but the 3 percent net cap increase from expansion people are talking about may be closer to 2 percent if Seattle is closer to the floor than the ceiling, which i believe they will be. Francis probably views picking top 5 in his first three drafts with the prospects available as a way to build a real contender, so i anticipate he is going to stress development while tanking to collect top assets that will set the Kraken up for years.

IMO, teams with space are going to look for a better way to spend 5 million than using it on Lebanc, as i believe there will be better options available. But with 63+ million tied up in 9 aging and under-performing guys, it is a safe bet that Wilson is going to try to move Lebanc this summer, and i still seriously doubt anyone trades just futures for him. Any deal will more than likely have a player not living up to his contract coming back.

Guess we will see.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Maybe. Ghost with only 2 years would be more likely, but the 3 percent net cap increase from expansion people are talking about may be closer to 2 percent if Seattle is closer to the floor than the ceiling, which i believe they will be. Francis probably views picking top 5 in his first three drafts with the prospects available as a way to build a real contender, so i anticipate he is going to stress development while tanking to collect top assets that will set the Kraken up for years.

IMO, teams with space are going to look for a better way to spend 5 million than using it on Lebanc, as i believe there will be better options available. But with 63+ million tied up in 9 aging and under-performing guys, it is a safe bet that Wilson is going to try to move Lebanc this summer, and i still seriously doubt anyone trades just futures for him. Any deal will more than likely have a player not living up to his contract coming back.

Guess we will see.

Seattle will almost certainly look to compete from the onset. They have to establish themselves in that market quickly and tanking intentionally is not a good way to begin building that brand. It was one thing when previously the NHL would screw their expansion teams over and you just didn't have the talent to compete to start with. Now with Vegas doing what it did and the rules being the same, Seattle will have expectations to start with a competitive team.

I doubt you will see the Sharks trade Labanc for futures because it doesn't sound like they're worried about getting futures. They're not rebuilding. They're at least publicly stating their delusions of competing next year. That means that chances are a Labanc trade is a hockey trade to get a 3C or a goalie.

 

[Irie]

Seattle will almost certainly look to compete from the onset. They have to establish themselves in that market quickly and tanking intentionally is not a good way to begin building that brand. It was one thing when previously the NHL would screw their expansion teams over and you just didn't have the talent to compete to start with. Now with Vegas doing what it did and the rules being the same, Seattle will have expectations to start with a competitive team.

I doubt you will see the Sharks trade Labanc for futures because it doesn't sound like they're worried about getting futures. They're not rebuilding. They're at least publicly stating their delusions of competing next year. That means that chances are a Labanc trade is a hockey trade to get a 3C or a goalie.

Seattle has hockey roots. I've lived up there, and the Thunderbirds have done quite a bit with the youth hockey community to build a solid base of interest in the sport. This isn't a city like Raleigh or Atlanta. There's also enough money and industry in the area that they will have commercial success like the Sharks did in the 90s just from their novelty. Add in the fact that there isn't even an NBA team to compete with right now, and they will get plenty of exposure and press.

Francis won't be in a "win right away" pressure situation.

Vegas was a fluke. They came in alone as the first expansion team in nearly 20 years, and a lot of GMs made some mistakes they aren't likely to make again, and vegas got extremely lucky that many of their players turned out to be late bloomers that really stepped up under Gallant, and it is very doubtful the Kraken find a top 5 vezina finalist goalie that will carry them the way Fluery did the Knights in 2017. I don't think anyone expects to see that lightning strike twice.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Negative value is not realistic

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Seattle has hockey roots. I've lived up there, and the Thunderbirds have done quite a bit with the youth hockey community to build a solid base of interest in the sport. This isn't a city like Raleigh or Atlanta. There's also enough money and industry in the area that they will have commercial success like the Sharks did in the 90s just from their novelty. Add in the fact that there isn't even an NBA team to compete with right now, and they will get plenty of exposure and press.

Francis won't be in a "win right away" pressure situation.

Vegas was a fluke. They came in alone as the first expansion team in nearly 20 years, and a lot of GMs made some mistakes they aren't likely to make again, and vegas got extremely lucky that many of their players turned out to be late bloomers that really stepped up under Gallant, and it is very doubtful the Kraken find a top 5 vezina finalist goalie that will carry them the way Fluery did the Knights in 2017. I don't think anyone expects to see that lightning strike twice.

It's hard to call Vegas a fluke. The rules were changed dramatically and they apply to Seattle as well. There may be less deals made but there will still be a lot of good players available in that draft to start with. And honestly, why couldn't they find goaltending like that. There are a lot of likely good goalies that will be exposed or available for trade. I don't see Seattle being as successful but there will be pressure to compete especially with the Pacific being wide open next season. The rules were made to make them competitive and they still should be. It's important to establish your franchise as competitive and not a door mat.

 

[Irie]

Negative value is not realistic

At 4.75 million for 3 seasons coming off the season he had, his value is extremely low. If he were signed a year or two less, then sure, I could definitely see a team take a chance on him and pony up some assets, but there aren't many teams looking to add a guy like Labanc at that price and term right now.

There are going to be quite a fewer players available that are perceived as just as good or better and will be available cheaper. These boards seriously under-rate the value of salary cap savings right now, and when this season is all said and done, and owners tally up their losses, things are probably going to get a bit tighter before they get better.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

At 4.75 million for 3 seasons coming off the season he had, his value is extremely low. If he were signed a year or two less, then sure, I could definitely see a team take a chance on him and pony up some assets, but there aren't many teams looking to add a guy like Lebanc at that price and term right now.

There are going to be quite a fewer players available that are perceived as just as good or better and will be available cheaper. These boards seriously under-rate the value of salary cap savings right now, and when this season is all said and done, and owners tally up their losses, things are probably going to get a bit tighter before they get better.

I'm not buying that. Half a point per game is still valuable. He's slightly overpaid but that doesn't make him extremely low value. While there will be a lot of guys available, there's also a lot of spots available. The Sharks won't have a problem finding interested parties if they go this route.

Owners may take a hit this season but things are opening up and they have two major TV contracts moving forward. They're not in some doomsday scenario financially moving forward.

 

[Lunatik]

I'd offer a 2nd and 3rd/prospect

 

[Irie]

I'm not buying that. Half a point per game is still valuable. He's slightly overpaid but that doesn't make him extremely low value. While there will be a lot of guys available, there's also a lot of spots available. The Sharks won't have a problem finding interested parties if they go this route.

Owners may take a hit this season but things are opening up and they have two major TV contracts moving forward. They're not in some doomsday scenario financially moving forward.

I always look for comparables. Ask yourself, what would you give up to take on Tyler Johnson and his 5 million cap hit? Similar salary to Labanc. Better all around player that can play center and has less term. Then look at UFAs that might sign in that ballpark, Smith, Danault, Saad, Hyman, Wennberg, Hoffman, Coleman, Palmieri which all will cost no assets. Then look around the league and there are several teams that have a Kevin Labanc who's contract they would more than likely like to shed. Now, seriously, what would you give up to acquire Labanc if he weren't on the sharks? And that is your answer. For me, that answer is "not much".

Operating revenue is down nearly 70%. The expansion and tv contracts were a lifeline, and things will be better soon, but it will take some time, and i don't think this offseason will be a high-spending free for all.

As for Seattle vs Vegas, looking at potential expansion draft lists, I don't see anyone exposing a 30 goal center the way Tallon did. I also am willing to bet a lot of my life savings that they won't be able to draft a guy that scored six goals and have him go on to score 43 and 78 points their first year. Nor do i expect them to be able to trade a 4th for a guy that would score 60 points in 67 games (Tallon gonna Tallon). Lastly, i just don't think they will get a stanley cup winning goaltender that is still playing at the top of his game that will finish top 5 in Vezina votes. I think vegas was a fluke. Francis could build a team that might finish outside of the bottom 10, but probably isn't a playoff team, and with the next two drafts being what they are, I doubt he takes that route.

You are definitely one of the most rational Shark's fans that post in the trade forum, and I often agree with your perspectives, but I think I am just going to say I have to agree to disagree today, but i do appreciate your respectful and well supported arguments. Cheers )