Value of: Kevin Labanc

[Pinkfloyd]

Johnson played more wing than center this season, and he typically plays on the wing when he is playing in the top 6.

The question was not "what is his value". It was what would you give up to add this player to your team. Just a simple hypothetical to develop a base perspective for players with a certain skillset and caphit. It was a bad analogy anyhow, as Johnson is a much more versatile and smarter player than Labanc, so the comparison was bad to begin with, but I just pulled a UFA aged player that played some top six minutes with similar stats that had a similiar cap hit and was perceived as overpayed off the top of my head.

Finding an apples to apples player to labanc is difficult. Not many GMs have paid one dimensional wingers that get a lot of PP time and only score 40 points 5 million per. I am guessing the list is extremely limited on comparables that would meet that criteria.

What you would give up is no different than what is his value in this context and your question was answered. I don't get what you're getting out of further shitting on the player incorrectly. You were consistently shown to be incorrect about your comparison and instead of owning up to that in an honorable and civil way, you've decided to move the goal posts. I can see no further gain from this because you're not being honest anymore.

 

[Irie]

What you would give up is no different than what is his value in this context and your question was answered. I don't get what you're getting out of further shitting on the player incorrectly. You were consistently shown to be incorrect about your comparison and instead of owning up to that in an honorable and civil way, you've decided to move the goal posts. I can see no further gain from this because you're not being honest anymore.

Moving goalposts and being dishonest?

I originally said:

I always look for comparables. Ask yourself, what would you give up to take on Tyler Johnson and his 5 million cap hit? Similar salary to Labanc. Better all around player that can play center and has less term. Then look at UFAs that might sign in that ballpark, Smith, Danault, Saad, Hyman, Wennberg, Hoffman, Coleman, Palmieri which all will cost no assets. Then look around the league and there are several teams that have a Kevin Labanc who's contract they would more than likely like to shed. Now, seriously, what would you give up to acquire Labanc if he weren't on the sharks? And that is your answer. For me, that answer is "not much".

Ignoring contracts, what Johnson brings isn't all that dissimilar to what Labanc brings. Last offseason Johnson was waived. There were no takers. I believe Labanc's situation would be similar this year.

You say i was shown to be incorrect in my comparison? Because Johnson has a NTC? seriously? They play a similar role role for their teams, Johnson plays 4th line center, but he moves up the lineup when needed and spends a lot of time at wing in their top 6, both will be UFAs at contracts end, both are similar point producers, neither kill penalties, and they have roughly the same cap hit.

But you are on some quest to attack semantics to invalidate my argument. And the craziest part is that you skipped completely over my entire point that Lebanc has little value at his cap hit to try to argue about a comparison i made in a hypothetical as a way to attack my perspective without actually even addressing it or the logic of it.

You are trying to win an argument by doing everything to avoid the argument. And you say I am the one moving goalposts?

Now i am am sure you will respond by regurgitating the same run-around, smoke and mirrors you keep responding with, "Johnson has a NTC, his value is completely different" nonsense, ignoring that it's a hypothetical. If I had prefaced it with a scenario where "Tampa demoted Johnson and he agreed to waive his NTC to be traded" would that allow you to focus on the rest of the argument and completely ignore the Tyler Johnson part? Because we can take it out, it is actually not even that relevant to my point that Lebanc at 5 million has very little value, you can make point for me.

You say "your team doesn't need wingers". Labanc is a true RW, and the Sharks are extremely thin at RW. If you move him, it would be even worse. San Jose has had a revolving door of 10+ AHLers they have been plugging into their top 9 wing slots all season, trying all kinds of line combinations, hoping for some kind of chemistry miracle. They don't need wingers because they have so many that they can't decide which ones to choose? Seriously, a legitimate top line rightwing would do wonders for this team, unfortunately, the truth is what you and everyone else on the Shark's board know, that Labanc isn't that, despite the fact he is paid like one.

 

[DisbeliefInDW]

Moving goalposts and being dishonest?

I originally said:

I always look for comparables. Ask yourself, what would you give up to take on Tyler Johnson and his 5 million cap hit? Similar salary to Labanc. Better all around player that can play center and has less term. Then look at UFAs that might sign in that ballpark, Smith, Danault, Saad, Hyman, Wennberg, Hoffman, Coleman, Palmieri which all will cost no assets. Then look around the league and there are several teams that have a Kevin Labanc who's contract they would more than likely like to shed. Now, seriously, what would you give up to acquire Labanc if he weren't on the sharks? And that is your answer. For me, that answer is "not much".

Ignoring contracts, what Johnson brings isn't all that dissimilar to what Labanc brings. Last offseason Johnson was waived. There were no takers. I believe Labanc's situation would be similar this year.

You say i was shown to be incorrect in my comparison? Because Johnson has a NTC? seriously? They play a similar role role for their teams, Johnson plays 4th line center, but he moves up the lineup when needed and spends a lot of time at wing in their top 6, both will be UFAs at contracts end, both are similar point producers, neither kill penalties, and they have roughly the same cap hit.

But you are on some quest to attack semantics to invalidate my argument. And the craziest part is that you skipped completely over my entire point that Lebanc has little value at his cap hit to try to argue about a comparison i made in a hypothetical as a way to attack my perspective without actually even addressing it or the logic of it.

You are trying to win an argument by doing everything to avoid the argument. And you say I am the one moving goalposts?

Now i am am sure you will respond by regurgitating the same run-around, smoke and mirrors you keep responding with, "Johnson has a NTC, his value is completely different" nonsense, ignoring that it's a hypothetical. If I had prefaced it with a scenario where "Tampa demoted Johnson and he agreed to waive his NTC to be traded" would that allow you to focus on the rest of the argument and completely ignore the Tyler Johnson part? Because we can take it out, it is actually not even that relevant to my point that Lebanc at 5 million has very little value, you can make point for me.

You say "your team doesn't need wingers". Labanc is a true RW, and the Sharks are extremely thin at RW. If you move him, it would be even worse. San Jose has had a revolving door of 10+ AHLers they have been plugging into their top 9 wing slots all season, trying all kinds of line combinations, hoping for some kind of chemistry miracle. They don't need wingers because they have so many that they can't decide which ones to choose? Seriously, a legitimate top line rightwing would do wonders for this team, unfortunately, the truth is what you and everyone else on the Shark's board know, that Labanc isn't that, despite the fact he is paid like one.

Floyd is one of the very few Sharks fans on here that has his head on straight, but he's still tied to a few players that he severely misjudges the values of. It's like when you know your team sucks, but all the players you view as valuable aren't when the players you think aren't valuable are.

 

[Irie]

Floyd is one of the very few Sharks fans on here that has his head on straight, but he's still tied to a few players that he severely misjudges the values of. It's like when you know your team sucks, but all the players you view as valuable aren't when the players you think aren't valuable are.

Yeah, I'be been here a long time, but i just dont post very often. I used to post more, but was banned back in the day when you could get banned for just about anything. Coming from the original Shark's forum, back before there was an HFBoards, it was a bit of an adjustment... that forum was a total cesspool at the end.

It's all good. And he is totally entitled to have an opinion that is the complete opposite of mine.

We disagreed on a topic. It happens. I was a bit harsh on Labanc when responding to Kcoyotes dismissal of differing opinions. I think Floyd took exception, which is ok. As Shark's fans, it is a difficult time right now, and we are passionate fans. Disagreements get heated. I'm not sure I've ever been told my opinion on a players value has been proven wrong as i'm not really sure opinions on player value can totally be quantified, and we had a bit of a weird twilight-zone-esq moment where i responded to a couple of posters that had quoted me, and he responded for them and asked me why i was posting that... but i respect his passion, and to be totally honest, I actual really appreciate Pinkfloyd's presence on this trade forum.

The guy is here everyday, clearing the water and offering info on behalf of sharks fans. I've seen him have a few heated debates with other fan bases that got ugly, but most of his takes are pretty level headed. He and a few others offset the handful of Shark's homers who's posts are so ridiculous that they give all sharks fans a bad image on these boards. I am pretty sure I have even liked some of his posts in the past. This one we are going to have to agree to disagree i am afraid, or maybe a mod can lock this thing and put us both out of our misery.

Maybe he'll set his account to ignore me, but i'll still look forward to his takes on other threads in the future, and i should definitely try to refrain from posting on Labanc

 

[Groo]

Floyd is one of the very few Sharks fans on here that has his head on straight, but he's still tied to a few players that he severely misjudges the values of. It's like when you know your team sucks, but all the players you view as valuable aren't when the players you think aren't valuable are.

Too funny

 

[Marshall]

Which wing is he stronger on?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Which wing is he stronger on?

Right

 

[bernmeister]

I’ll bite. Many Sharks fans dislike this guy because he can, at time, look lackadaisical in the defensive zone. And that’s a fair criticism, but what is overlooked is that he’s a very good scorer (he scores at a borderline first line rate at even strength) and has solid possession metrics. He can snipe the puck and is a strong playmaker as well. Not the fastest skater, but very crafty.

He’s no Bergeron defensively, nor is he particularly good on the PP despite being fed oodles of PP time, but he’s a very good complementary offensive winger who will play up to the ability of his center. For example, when Couture was on fire to start the season, Labanc looked fantastic as well. Engaged, energetic, and focused. When Couture got hurt and his play fell off a cliff half way through the season, Labanc fell on old habits.

If you have a strong center core, then Labanc is a great option for your team. He won’t drive a line on his own, but he’ll enhance a play-driving center.

sounds like a way lesser version of Strome, who is worth a first +

 

[themelkman]

sounds like a way lesser version of Strome, who is worth a first +

I wouldn’t really say that. Strome and him are very similar except Strome can play center.

 

[bernmeister]

I wouldn’t really say that. Strome and him are very similar except Strome can play center.

close enuf to deserve a like,
but
Strome is at least >>.
imo
concur they are simiar