Value of: Kevin Fiala to NJ

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Except that offense is much easier to quantify on an individual basis than defense is, so no, I probably wouldn't equate the two equally.

I'm not equating them. Offense is more important than defense for a forward. Having a forward that's bad defensively does hurt though.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'm not equating them. Offense is more important than defense for a forward. Having a forward that's bad defensively does hurt though.

Of varying degrees I guess. I've just never bought into the idea that winger's defensive impact was all that meaningful, especially on the negative side. It's not like basketball where you can isolate a defender.

 

[Hierso]

My list of untouchables is as follows:

Hughes
Hughes
Hischier
Hamilton
Mercer
Holtz
Bratt

2022 1st is available to me but only for a top goalie or rhd prospect. Nothing over 22.

Zacha, Smith, 2023 1st, Sharangovich, Bahl, are all available in a trade for an rhd or goalie to me.

Obviously we’d prefer someone who’s last name starts with an H.

No one is trading a top rhd prospect for a mystery box.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

No one is trading a top rhd prospect for a mystery box.

How is a prospect any different than a pick? It’s pretty much the same mystery just a year or two later.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Read some of the comments here and see how many people think that Fiala's contract situation has no impact on his trade value.

I literally said he'd get a little more than Reinhart got. Try reading. Mark Stone was better than Fiala and he got a 2nd + Brannstrom. Everyone seems to ignore that comparison though. I don't think you have any clue of Reinhart's performance in 2021. The guy was good offensively & defensively. It's not just about points.

I've read the whole thread. Not one person has said his contract situation has no impact on his trade value.

Stone was a pending UFA!!! What the hell, dude? That's why people are ignoring that idiotic comparison. Very cute how you say a 2nd + Brannstrom as if Brannstrom wasn't like a top 15 prospect in the NHL at the time and the 2nd was the key piece in the deal. Also, everyone thought Ottawa got fleeced in that trade.

It's not all about points, but it's a lot about points. Fiala is playing on a line centered by a guy who at the start of the season was 28 and had 18 points in 103 games in the NHL, and a 20 year old rookie. That line is 24th in the NHL in expected goals %, right behind Pacioretty-Stone-Stephenson and Kreider-Zibanejad-Kaako, so while he's not a Selke nominee by any stretch, he's certainly not hurting the team when he's on the ice

 

[McJedi]

Going off the assumption that Minny can't resign Fiala (which I've read is a real possibility), what would you guys want? While being an RFA helps his value, the fact that they can't afford him and "need" to move him hurts it.

Untouchables: Nico, Jack and Luke Hughes, Bratt, Mercer, Bratt, Holtz, Sharangovich, Siegenthaler, Bahl*(?)

*Our management and coaching staff seem to like him a lot.

Our 2023 pick is completely on the table (maybe top 5 protected?)

2022 1st (5th OA) + Graves + Bahl for Fiala.

Minnesota loves big players.

 

[AKL]

2022 1st (5th OA) + Graves + Bahl for Fiala.

Minnesota loves big players.

I'm not sure which part is worse: the part where you're sending us two LD we don't need, or the part where this is a cap saving move and you're sending us 4M back in LD we don't need.

 

[Smitty426]

I'm not sure which part is worse: the part where you're sending us two LD we don't need, or the part where this is a cap saving move and you're sending us 4M back in LD we don't need.

What are the positional needs in Min other than cheap player contracts and picks

 

[AKL]

What are the positional needs in Min other than cheap player contracts and picks

Well if we're moving Fiala we need top 6 forwards or top 6 prospects back.

 

[Bank Shot]

Won't Minnesota move Zuccarello before Fiala?

 

[AKL]

Won't Minnesota move Zuccarello before Fiala?

Probably not, because Kaprizov loves him and their chemistry is unmatched. As well, Zuccarello has a full NMC until July 1st, which would put us at risk of losing Fiala to and offer sheet or arbitration. And the cherry on top is that Guerin loves Zuccarello and seems to dislike Fiala.

I think most of us Wild fans would gladly move Zuccarello before Fiala though.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Won't Minnesota move Zuccarello before Fiala?

They should move Dumba before either.

The order between the 3 should be:

Dumba
Zuccarello

 

[Hierso]

How is a prospect any different than a pick? It’s pretty much the same mystery just a year or two later.

One is proven top tier (and since we're talking about 22 and under) and they hopefully have had some NHL experience by that time. A random draftpick in the top 5 can still turn into a bust so the risk isn't worth the reward.

 

[Blue Chip Prospect]

Untouchable: the whole f****** team and prospect depth.

Lol with that list they’ll just trade him somewhere else. The guy is a PPG player and you want to give 4th liners and late round picks ?

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

I've read the whole thread. Not one person has said his contract situation has no impact on his trade value.

Stone was a pending UFA!!! What the hell, dude? That's why people are ignoring that idiotic comparison. Very cute how you say a 2nd + Brannstrom as if Brannstrom wasn't like a top 15 prospect in the NHL at the time and the 2nd was the key piece in the deal. Also, everyone thought Ottawa got fleeced in that trade.

It's not all about points, but it's a lot about points. Fiala is playing on a line centered by a guy who at the start of the season was 28 and had 18 points in 103 games in the NHL, and a 20 year old rookie. That line is 24th in the NHL in expected goals %, right behind Pacioretty-Stone-Stephenson and Kreider-Zibanejad-Kaako, so while he's not a Selke nominee by any stretch, he's certainly not hurting the team when he's on the ice

Read better

"No it doesn't lol. Having to pay the guy a fair AAV with term absolutely doesn't "hurt" his value."

Bro you are hilarious. You were using the Conor Garland trade as a comparison that included 5 different players, but the Mark Stone trade is "idiotic". There are Wild fans in here who were even using Pacioretty as a comparison and he was a pending UFA too.

Brannstrom wasn't a top 15 prospect. Wheeler had him as 43rd prospect that year. Isak Rosen was the 14th pick this year, but he's not a top 15 prospect. If Fiala was traded for a late 2nd + Isak Rosen you'd be upset.

The Reinhart trade is still the best comparison.

This was Reinhart pre-trade & Fiala now. Fiala is better, but they are close.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Tell me why should a team give up a top 10 pick + an A prospect when they can

A. Go after a FA like Forsberg, Johnny G, Bryan Rust without having to give up assets.
B. Can threaten an offer sheet for a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, that Minnesota is unlikely to match

Also, which teams have the room to add a 8M offensive winger that stinks defensively long term?

I don't know this to be true. I think Fiala will be traded if we can get the right return. But, if we can't, i think Guerin. would quite easily move Dumba and match an offersheet in this situation. We would peobably even be worth more next offseason if we decide to trade him. He'd only be 26 and would have another productive season under his belt.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

And the other side of that coin is that this isn't a grocery store. There aren't as many 1st line scoring wingers available in free agency as there are teams that want to add those players, see the fit, and are willing to commit the money. Scarcity is an enormous driver for top-of-the-lineup players.

The offer sheet compensation has little bearing if an offer sheet isn't a realistic option. It might act as a starting point for some teams in terms of bids, but that's about it.

I don't know how many of the first line scoring wingers available in free agency are 25, either (actually I do ~0). The team, hopefully us, that gives Fiala his next deal will have a relatively good chance of seeing Fiala perform at that number throughout the deal. Signing Gaudreau or Forsberg to deals when they are 27 and 28 respectively doesn't sound as enticing to me, especially when Fiala won't cost the AAV that those two will.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Read better

"No it doesn't lol. Having to pay the guy a fair AAV with term absolutely doesn't "hurt" his value."

Bro you are hilarious. You were using the Conor Garland trade as a comparison that included 5 different players, but the Mark Stone trade is "idiotic". There are Wild fans in here who were even using Pacioretty as a comparison and he was a pending UFA too.

Brannstrom wasn't a top 15 prospect. Wheeler had him as 43rd prospect that year. Isak Rosen was the 14th pick this year, but he's not a top 15 prospect. If Fiala was traded for a late 2nd + Isak Rosen you'd be upset.

The Reinhart trade is still the best comparison.

This was Reinhart pre-trade & Fiala now. Fiala is better, but they are close.

It's a tremendous argument for Guerin to walk through the door that we all want him to and not trade Fiala for a Reinhart-like return (or even a little better). All we can do is hope that he comes to his senses.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

I don't know this to be true. I think Fiala will be traded if we can get the right return. But, if we can't, i think Guerin. would quite easily move Dumba and match an offersheet in this situation. We would peobably even be worth more next offseason if we decide to trade him. He'd only be 26 and would have another productive season under his belt.

It's what I would do, but it seems like Guerin values Dumba more than Fiala.

Next summer he'd be an FA though.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

It's what I would do, but it seems like Guerin values Dumba more than Fiala.

Next summer he'd be an FA though.

I can promise you this is not true. Guerin doesn't look at Dumba and value what he brings more than Fiala. He's not stupid. But, for some reason or another, last offseason it appeared as though Guerin decided that given Fiala's contract demands, the position of the team, potential returns for different players, etc., that the best course of action would be to trade Fiala. A lot can and has changed over the last 8 months, and a lot of the information that people are working with is outdated. One thing we can say for sure, though, is that Guerin does not have to trade Fiala. He isn't the type of GM that would sell him off for pennies on the dollar. Look at how he handled Dumba last offseason. He loves the player and the person, but he tried like hell to trade him. At the end of the day, he didn't like the offers that were coming so he went in a different direction. Guerin won't have one singular path that he can follow this offseason.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Read better

"No it doesn't lol. Having to pay the guy a fair AAV with term absolutely doesn't "hurt" his value."

Bro you are hilarious. You were using the Conor Garland trade as a comparison that included 5 different players, but the Mark Stone trade is "idiotic". There are Wild fans in here who were even using Pacioretty as a comparison and he was a pending UFA too.

Brannstrom wasn't a top 15 prospect. Wheeler had him as 43rd prospect that year. Isak Rosen was the 14th pick this year, but he's not a top 15 prospect. If Fiala was traded for a late 2nd + Isak Rosen you'd be upset.

The Reinhart trade is still the best comparison.

This was Reinhart pre-trade & Fiala now. Fiala is better, but they are close.

Do you even realize how stupid you sound? You are claiming that a contract that doesn't even exist yet hurts Fiala's value. I'm out.

 

[MK9]

Untouchables: Nico, Jack and Luke Hughes, Bratt, Mercer, Bratt, Holtz, Sharangovich, Siegenthaler, Bahl*(?)

The thread should have just died a quick, cold, hard death after this sentence. Anything beyond this is a colossal waste of everyone's time if none of those are what's available. The rest is just multiple pages of pointless bickering.

Move along.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Do you even realize how stupid you sound? You are claiming that a contract that doesn't even exist yet hurts Fiala's value. I'm out.

What are you even on about? Is Fiala not going to be getting a big extension from any team that trades for him?

 

[AKL]

What are you even on about? Is Fiala not going to be getting a big extension from any team that trades for him?

If he does, the team he's getting it from probably wouldn't have a problem with it, would they? It wouldn't hurt his value to that team, if that team was the one giving him the contract. Do you understand now?

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

If he does, the team he's getting it from probably wouldn't have a problem with it, would they? It wouldn't hurt his value to that team, if that team was the one giving him the contract. Do you understand now?

Would they have a problem with it? No, they are obviously trading for him. Does Fiala needing a big contract hurt the return? Yes. Do you understand now?