Value of: Kevin Fiala to NJ

[HugeInTheShire]

Going off the assumption that Minny can't resign Fiala (which I've read is a real possibility), what would you guys want? While being an RFA helps his value, the fact that they can't afford him and "need" to move him hurts it.

Untouchables: Nico, Jack and Luke Hughes, Bratt, Mercer, Bratt, Holtz, Sharangovich, Siegenthaler, Bahl*(?)

*Our management and coaching staff seem to like him a lot.

Our 2023 pick is completely on the table (maybe top 5 protected?)

This untouchable list is crazy, and is Bratt so untouchable that he had to be listed twice?
I can't see why NJ would be willing to pay the massive price for Fiala though, he's great but RHD and Goalie are way more pressing of needs.

Everyone besides Hughes x2 and Nico should be available for the right price.

 

[Smitty426]

I’m not entirely sure the Devils need more skill at this point either. They need to sign players like Niederreiter, Nichuskin, Marchment, etc. that will help create some space for their skill guys. Between Bratt, Hischier, Hughes, Sharangovich, Mercer, and eventually Holtz, the skill is there.

I'd add Burakovsky (Swiss BTW!), since Nichuskin will most probably be brought back. Two of these FAs would be slightly higher than Fiala not including the assets going back. Crouse would probably be easier but still cost you! Add a 2-3 RHD and solve goalie issues using Zacha, depth players picks/prospects. You've then righted the ship somewhat.

 

[Accelleratii]

Fiala will stay in Minnesota. It's more likely that Dumba and some others are gone before Fiala. He shoots right, still productive and despite injury concerns has one year remaining at age 28. Very moveable player IMO.

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

I'd add Burakovsky (Swiss BTW!), since Nichuskin will most probably be brought back. Two of these FAs would be slightly higher than Fiala not including the assets going back. Crouse would probably be easier but still cost you! Add a 2-3 RHD and solve goalie issues using Zacha, depth players picks/prospects. You've then righted the ship somewhat.

Wikipedia says he is an Austrian-born Swedish hockey player.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

So, being a ppg guy isn‘t good anymore?
Man, Fiala will be disappointed when he founds out his goals count only for less than 20…

Yea that's exactly what I said

Being at a PPG isn't as big of a deal as it used to be (what I actually said)

More than double the number of PPG guys this year compared to last. The "woah this guy is playing at a PPG he's worth a king's ransom!" isn't what it used to be.

 

[AKL]

Yea that's exactly what I said

Being at a PPG isn't as big of a deal as it used to be (what I actually said)

More than double the number of PPG guys this year compared to last. The "woah this guy is playing at a PPG he's worth a king's ransom!" isn't what it used to be.

Okay so throw out the PPG label then.

This is a 25 year old that's 18th in the league in scoring. He shouldn't be cheap.

 

[Eggtimer]

Yea that's exactly what I said

Being at a PPG isn't as big of a deal as it used to be (what I actually said)

More than double the number of PPG guys this year compared to last. The "woah this guy is playing at a PPG he's worth a king's ransom!" isn't what it used to be.

100 point players are now what PPG used to be in reference to how good they are seen lol. Weird but true

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Okay so throw out the PPG label then.

This is a 25 year old that's 18th in the league in scoring. He shouldn't be cheap.

He wouldn't be cheap if he was signed long term to a good deal. He isn't though. Having to pay the guy 8M long term hurts his value.

 

[thestonedkoala]

To NJ:
Kevin Fiala
Cam Talbot

To Minnesota:
Alexander Holtz
1st 2022
2nd 2023
2nd 2024

 

[AKL]

He wouldn't be cheap if he was signed long term to a good deal. He isn't though. Having to pay the guy 8M long term hurts his value.

No it doesn't lol. Having to pay the guy a fair AAV with term absolutely doesn't "hurt" his value. That's such a preposterous thing to say. That's literally how the business works. You pay players you want for their services.

Whichever team he's traded to will have every opportunity to work out a contract beforehand. If they can't, they won't trade for him. A team that wants him will have zero issues with giving him a contract.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

and only 1 on New Jersey.

Bratt + Hughes = 2

 

[AKL]

Bratt + Hughes = 2

Yeah, we were only counting guys who are actually 1PPG, not anyone who's somewhat close.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

There are like 46 PPG players right now

There are like 46 players on OP's untouchables list.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

No it doesn't lol. Having to pay the guy a fair AAV with term absolutely doesn't "hurt" his value. That's such a preposterous thing to say. That's literally how the business works. You pay players you want for their services.

Whichever team he's traded to will have every opportunity to work out a contract beforehand. If they can't, they won't trade for him. A team that wants him will have zero issues with giving him a contract.

What do you mean lol? Of course it does. A guy needing a huge contract lowers his value. If Fiala was making 4.5M for 4 years he'd get a huge return. It's why Hagel got so much. A player's contract is a huge factor in trades. The team trading for him has to give up assets AND pay him to a huge deal. There aren't too many teams that can do both. If you got the money why not just go after Forsberg, Johnny G, or Bryan Rust instead without having to give up assets?

Did people not learn about the RFA with arbitration market from Reinhart & Buchnevich?

 

[Monsieur Verdoux]

To NJ:
Kevin Fiala
Cam Talbot

To Minnesota:
Alexander Holtz
1st 2022
2nd 2023
2nd 2024

That would be horrible asset management for the Devils. And I really like Fiala.

 

[AKL]

What do you mean lol? Of course it does. A guy needing a huge contract lowers his value. If Fiala was making 4.5M for 4 years he'd get a huge return. It's why Hagel got so much. A player's contract is a huge factor in trades. The team trading for him has to give up assets AND pay him to a huge deal. There aren't too many teams that can do both. If you got the money why not just go after Forsberg, Johnny G, or Bryan Rust instead without having to give up assets?

Did people not learn about the RFA with arbitration market from Reinhart & Buchnevich?

Oh we're just being silly, okay. Yes, if he was comically underpaid for four more years, his value would be higher. That holds true for pretty much every player in the league. Like if McDavid was signed at 2M for the next 12 years his value would be massive. Just downright astronomical.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Oh we're just being silly, okay. Yes, if he was comically underpaid for four more years, his value would be higher. That holds true for pretty much every player in the league. Like if McDavid was signed at 2M for the next 12 years his value would be massive. Just downright astronomical.

So you agree that a guy's contract is pretty important when trading for a guy?

 

[Eggtimer]

To NJ:
Kevin Fiala
Cam Talbot

To Minnesota:
Alexander Holtz
1st 2022
2nd 2023
2nd 2024

Value might be accurate but Devils can’t make this deal. They are better off going hard after a Forsberg / Gaudreau / Tkachuk if they become available as a UFA than spend that many assets.
Only way they use their 1st this year is if it’s for a stud #1 goalie like a Hellebuyck ( similar to the Schneider trade. But very very very unlikely a goalie like that is made available) or a player like a Tkachuk / Wilson stud power forward .

 

[AKL]

So you agree that a guy's contract is pretty important when trading for a guy?

I agree that if a guy is comically underpaid for a lot of years, he has more value, as was your point, yes. I'm not going to categorically agree to an extraordinarily vague statement so you can twist it to fit your narrative, though, no.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Holtz + swap of 1st round picks

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

I agree that if a guy is comically underpaid for a lot of years, he has more value, as was your point, yes. I'm not going to categorically agree to an extraordinarily vague statement so you can twist it to fit your narrative, though, no.

So you understand why having to give a guy a huge contract hurts his trade value?

 

[thestonedkoala]

That would be horrible asset management for the Devils. And I really like Fiala.

Other than Mercer instead of Holtz, Minnesota really doesn't want anything from New Jersey. At best, Minnesota is taking the brunt of this hoping that Mercer/Holtz turns into a Fiala and develops as good as or better chemistry with Boldy. If New Jersey is lucky, then the 2nds are going to be in the bottom half of the 2nd round.

So you understand why having to give a guy a huge contract hurts his trade value?

If he was an UFA.

 

[AKL]

So you understand why having to give a guy a huge contract hurts his trade value?

I understand you've made several posts in this thread and others about Fiala and how low his value must be, without actually stating what you think his value should be, or really contributing much at all to that discussion. I don't understand why a Sabres fan is so interested in trying to dictate the conversation for others in a thread that has zero to do with the Sabres.

I'd love to talk more about what I do and don't understand, as soon as you make a point worth discussing. But right now all you're doing is saying "his value isn't high, do you understand" over and over again, and it's like one small step above the threshold for trolling.

 

[Sota Popinski]

He wouldn't be cheap if he was signed long term to a good deal. He isn't though. Having to pay the guy 8M long term hurts his value.

He's not gonna be cheap, bozo. Guys that are scoring over PPG might be signed to a "good deal" or "long term", but not both. Those players don't get traded. There are ZERO players who have scored more than Fiala this season and are making less. Then take into account his linemates. Fiala is worth a top 10 pick and an A prospect.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

I understand you've made several posts in this thread and others about Fiala and how low his value must be, without actually stating what you think his value should be, or really contributing much at all to that discussion. I don't understand why a Sabres fan is so interested in trying to dictate the conversation for others in a thread that has zero to do with the Sabres.

I'd love to talk more about what I do and don't understand, as soon as you make a point worth discussing. But right now all you're doing is saying "his value isn't high, do you understand" over and over again, and it's like one small step above the threshold for trolling.

I already said what his value should be. Similar to the offer sheet value of a 1st,2nd,3rd.

"I don't understand why a Sabres fan is so interested in trying to dictate the conversation for others in a thread that has zero to do with the Sabres."

Idk I thought this was a place where people could talk about topics in hockey. Maybe I'm wrong. Guess Sabres fans can only talk about Sabres related topics.

It seems like you think that his contract situation doesn't matter at all. That he should still get a kings ransom even though he'd an RFA with arb that needs a huge contract w/ plenty of other options for other teams in FA. Sabres fans thought the same about Reinhart. He was getting a top 10 pick from Vancouver or LA plus a decent prospect. Guess what he didn't get close to that. Wild fans seem to be in the same boat as Sabres fans last year thinking it's gonna be Mercer/Holtz.