News Article: Keefe planning for Mid December Training Camp...

[Golden_Jet]

You say the players should get a percentage of the team when it gets sold? NP...will the players put up starter money to buy the team? didn't think so...

Or help out to build the arena.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Or help out to build the arena.

This crap about the players being the product and the owners do nothing is ridiculous. If it wasn't for the owners and the risks they take...these guys would be playing beer league at night while working a regular job...nobody is going to pay to see them. Its a partnership between talent and capital...why is that so hard for people to understand?

 

[TheGoldenJet]

They traded him, 2.5 months after his final suspensions.... 2.5 months is plenty of time to explore what your options were. That's hardly a rush job. TWO AND A HALF MONTHS.

This is irrelevant. Has nothing to do with how long they waited. Dubas identified a deal he thought was good and pulled the trigger. Barrie was supposed to be a #2 D for the Leafs to bolster the blueline. Instead he was used as a #5 OFD and dumped after one year. You can pull out the great book of excuses all you like, but it doesn’t change the fact that it turned out to be a horrible trade.

 

[Fogelhund]

This is irrelevant. Has nothing to do with how long they waited. Dubas identified a deal he thought was good and pulled the trigger. Barrie was supposed to be a #2 D for the Leafs to bolster the blueline. Instead he was used as a #5 OFD and dumped after one year. You can pull out the great book of excuses all you like, but it doesn’t change the fact that it turned out to be a horrible trade.

A "rushed" trade, wasn't rushed... that's 100% relevant.

Can you please provide a link, where anyone in the Leafs organization, called Barrie a #2D? A top pairing D? Did anyone say it was a "good" trade? He got the best he could, for the asset that HAD to be moved.

Just because some fans called it so, or the media, that doesn't make it so. Fans created unrealistic expectations, and were disappointed... who cares.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

What if Kerfoot has a great year? I think that makes a trade seem better. I am predicting he has a career year.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

He got the best he could, for the asset that HAD to be moved.

Wrong again. He didn’t get an asset with a set value, like a first round pick, where you can point and say “he got the best value he could”, like you’re trying to do. Instead, he got a haul that he thought was very good, that turned out to be not so good. Barrie was on pace to break 60 points in each of the previous two years, and was a #2 in Colorado. He didn’t have nearly the same type of impact here.

 

[ShaneFalco]

What if Kerfoot has a great year? I think that makes a trade seem better. I am predicting he has a career year.

He was one of the most impressive players in the playoffs. His face was broken for part of the year, new coaches, new systems
...

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

He was one of the most impressive players in the playoffs. His face was broken for part of the year, new coaches, new systems
...

I liked his play before his injury. He's being vastly underrated on this board.

 

[al secord]

He was one of the most impressive players in the playoffs. His face was broken for part of the year, new coaches, new systems
...

Once you become the whipping boy it's tough to shake it.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Once you become the whipping boy it's tough to shake it.

Indeed

 

[JT AM da real deal]

You know what? I don't care...I think the players are being obtuse on this and they are going to push it to the point where the owners tell them to sit home. The fans have been used to doing other things for a long time now...i know I have. This will be a hill that the players are going to die on and look bad doing it.

You talk about Signage on the ACC...you even said it yourself that it covers the NBA..NHL and concerts...so big whoop...its 1/3 of 20M a year...you think that's going to increase the salary cap? How about when players sign a big deal and then suck afterwards...still getting 2/3 of a shitty contract? Is that fair to the owners? And 2/3 is a lucky payout if its not in bonus money...so sorry...I am not with the players on this one.

You say the players should get a percentage of the team when it gets sold? NP...will the players put up starter money to buy the team? didn't think so... I know you are supposed to be a former player of some sort...but as a current businessman I am surprised your eyes are not open to the risks that owners take to get where they are.

I get both sides but I guess I will always side with da players ... players have been screwed for so so many years and it is only very very recently becoming more fair ... da history has been so bad over so many years that it can't be fixed in last few years especially among older guys ... I wish they would make a CBA which was completely neutral and took away all the disparities between teams and players ... billionaires can easily finance any issues for 2020/21 like swotting a fly on da wall ... so why renege on a deal? ... they will get it all back over time with 50/50 HRR split right???? seems to me like they want it both ways which they may have power to force down players throats ... or players could get locked out for 2020 season and then wait for 2021 to open up with fans in da stands like you said no one really wants to play with this COVID thing going on anyways ... and people will watch Raps play instead so no biggie ... I think this was right solution for everyone anywho

 

[ACC1224]

I liked his play before his injury. He's being vastly underrated on this board.

Curious, are there any players, coaches or management that you don’t like.

 

[Fogelhund]

Wrong again. He didn’t get an asset with a set value, like a first round pick, where you can point and say “he got the best value he could”, like you’re trying to do. Instead, he got a haul that he thought was very good, that turned out to be not so good. Barrie was on pace to break 60 points in each of the previous two years, and was a #2 in Colorado. He didn’t have nearly the same type of impact here.

A draft pick is a set value? Really? And please tell exactly how a draft pick fills two spots on the roster, 3C, and a RD? If we don't have Barrie, there wasn't any options in Free Agency, for the same or less, at the same price.

In the 22 games since the coaching change, however, Barrie’s got his groove back. In poetic fashion, he scored his first goal of the season in Keefe’s first game behind the bench, and now with four goals and 16 points (a familiar 60-point pace) under Keefe, he’s looking a lot more like himself.

This Kadri trade stuff, is bordering on obsessive, for those never happy with anything, looking to spin stuff. He had to be traded, we got useful pieces back, that were needed. Some people will never be happy, and will always ignore context. Cheers.

 

[Menzinger]

He was one of the most impressive players in the playoffs. His face was broken for part of the year, new coaches, new systems
...

He looked good in thr Jackets series, especially on the PK.

I think thr Leafs will get good valuebfrom him this season. Now that he's passed his face injury and adjusted to a new environment

 

[Menzinger]

Curious, are there any players, coaches or management that you don’t like.

Though there's not as if fans have any obligation to actively dislike any roster players

 

[Leafs87]

For that to be possible players need to all be in Toronto and quarantining as of Monday

 

[Golden_Jet]

For that to be possible players need to all be in Toronto and quarantining as of Monday

Ya January 1st is out now, when you consider the 7 teams are starting 7-10 days earlier. Plus Looking at Lebruns tweets , they haven’t talked for a week.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

A draft pick is a set value? Really? And please tell exactly how a draft pick fills two spots on the roster, 3C, and a RD? If we don't have Barrie, there wasn't any options in Free Agency, for the same or less, at the same price.

In the 22 games since the coaching change, however, Barrie’s got his groove back. In poetic fashion, he scored his first goal of the season in Keefe’s first game behind the bench, and now with four goals and 16 points (a familiar 60-point pace) under Keefe, he’s looking a lot more like himself.

This Kadri trade stuff, is bordering on obsessive, for those never happy with anything, looking to spin stuff. He had to be traded, we got useful pieces back, that were needed. Some people will never be happy, and will always ignore context. Cheers.

Point out where I said he should have gotten a draft pick? All I and many, many others are saying, is that Dubas should have gotten a better deal for Kadri, your cherry picked 22 game sample notwithstanding.

 

[ACC1224]

Though there's not as if fans have any obligation to actively dislike any roster players

I think it would be impossible if you’re truly a fan of the team.

 

[Fogelhund]

Point out where I said he should have gotten a draft pick?

Ummm... awkward

Wrong again. He didn’t get an asset with a set value, like a first round pick

All I and many, many others are saying, is that Dubas should have gotten a better deal for Kadri.

It would have been great to get more for Kadri, I'm all for that. After putting him on the market, Dubas didn't get a better offer, so a better deal wasn't available. At some point, you just have to accept that your perceived value of Kadri, wasn't reality.

 

[X66]

It would have been great to get more for Kadri, I'm all for that. After putting him on the market, Dubas didn't get a better offer, so a better deal wasn't available. At some point, you just have to accept that your perceived value of Kadri, wasn't reality.

And the original deal, which had Brodie as the main piece coming back was shut down by Kadri...

 

[Fogelhund]

I get both sides but I guess I will always side with da players ... players have been screwed for so so many years and it is only very very recently becoming more fair ... da history has been so bad over so many years that it can't be fixed in last few years especially among older guys ... I wish they would make a CBA which was completely neutral and took away all the disparities between teams and players ... billionaires can easily finance any issues for 2020/21 like swotting a fly on da wall ... so why renege on a deal? ... they will get it all back over time with 50/50 HRR split right???? seems to me like they want it both ways which they may have power to force down players throats ... or players could get locked out for 2020 season and then wait for 2021 to open up with fans in da stands like you said no one really wants to play with this COVID thing going on anyways ... and people will watch Raps play instead so no biggie ... I think this was right solution for everyone anywho

It's turning into a bit of a mess. January 1st is looking doubtful now, maybe the third week of January?

I mean, if you were a player, of course you will side with a player... but look at it this way... they are going to get paid, for playing, maybe 48 games, instead of the regular 82... and they are going to get paid for all of the 82. The question now, is when are they going to get paid that amount, and how much is going to get deferred. While the players will get paid as if there was a full 82 games, the owners likely have zero revenue from fans in the stands, and maybe even a reduced amount from TV, due to less games... though really, it shouldn't be a reduction there, that is that much.

Everyone will come down to their senses... the players will be fully paid, it's just a matter of how much now, and how much later.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Ummm... awkward

Awkward indeed. I think you need to re-read that post, because nowhere does it state Dubas should have gotten a draft pick.

It would have been great to get more for Kadri, I'm all for that. After putting him on the market, Dubas didn't get a better offer, so a better deal wasn't available. At some point, you just have to accept that your perceived value of Kadri, wasn't reality.

Overly simplistic analysis. The truth is that Dubas took what he thought was the best offer, probably because he overvalued what Tyson Barrie would bring as a Leaf. We don’t know for certain what other offers were on the table, but it’s not unreasonable to assume that one of them might have involved a centerpiece that would have fit this team better than Tyson Barrie.

 

[KyleDubasBoyGeniua]

I think the error was trying to fill Kadr's void and getting a top-pair D. He should have traded Kadri 1 for 1 for a D. The D would have been better and not upcoming UFA.
BTW, Dubas trades of Hyman, Kessel, Muzzin, Kapanen, trading down to select Sandin have been real good. His drafting looks fantastic. And no GM has been better at signing UFAs.
No one wants to discuss the good trades.

 

[Fogelhund]

Awkward indeed. I think you need to re-read that post, because nowhere does it state Dubas should have gotten a draft pick.

Spin cycle engage

Overly simplistic analysis. The truth is that Dubas took what he thought was the best offer, probably because he overvalued what Tyson Barrie would bring as a Leaf. We don’t know for certain what other offers were on the table, but it’s not unreasonable to assume that one of them might have involved a centerpiece that would have fit this team better than Tyson Barrie.

Imagine a year later. Dubas gets the D he wanted in Brodie, that Kadri blocked. Ya, Dubas got his guy and used a stop gap plug in the meantime, and got a better 3C than Jankowski. But with zero knowledge, or evidence, you assume somehow, there were better offers, that somehow never came public. Hmm. How about just no. Nice fantasy to justify continuing to complain. Enjoy it.