Proposal: Karlsson to Ottawa

Hale The Villain

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This is 100% objectively false.

He's clearly not as good as he was in Ottawa. He's no longer the elite defenseman he once was, despite being currently paid like one.

I mean I don’t know if I would take advice from a Sens fan on how to run a team. :sarcasm: Out of those contracts right now the only one that is very overpaid is Vlasic but he will likely be bought out soon. Burns is worth about what he makes, EK overpaid by a few million, Couture is worth about what he makes and Hertl is for sure worth what he makes. Will they all be at that level for the rest of their time? I mean I’d put money on no but you also can’t be sure of it. Jumbo put up a PPG season at like 37 (don’t remember off the top of my head) and I think Sens fans should remember guys like Spezza and Alfredsson producing into their later years.

You’re (not just you but anyone) are basing this off the current salary cap too. The cap is already going up this season even if it’s a small increase and should be going up more and more as more seasons go on. Also I think you will see at least one of Burns or Couture moved both without retention. We will likely take back a few bad contracts but contracts that give more flexibility. Just for an example of something off the top of my head but Burns and Bonino for something around say Faksa and Khudobin from DAL. Now I think Khudobin might be joining LTIR island soon but I’m not sure.

One other thing that I think you as a Sens fan (or Sens fans since this is a Sens/Sharks thread) is the Sharks have a pretty underrated prospect pool. Their future defense doesn’t look too great on all star level players but they have some interesting prospects in Merkley (2nd pair), Kniazev (2nd pair), Ferraro (complimentary 1st pair or good second pair), Hatakka (complimentary 2nd pair or good 3rd pair), Laroque (3rd pair) coming along. At forward they have a lot better than most people see on the outside though, obviously you see Eklund and Bordeleau who are likely the Sharks two best prospects but you also have guys like Robins (middle 6), Coe (middle 6), Wiesblatt (middle 6), Gushchin (top 6), Oberg (offensive bottom 6), Raska (pest bottom 6). That’s to go along with some of the young (ish) talent already on the roster in Balcers, Dahlen, Timo.

I totally understand your point about the mediocrity but my counter to that is if we get rid of all these vets and rush prospects and ruin them, does it really matter if we have all of these high picks? I think the Oilers are a perfect example. If they don’t luck into McDavid, they are still the laughing stock of the league even now. One of the reasons for that is bad drafting for sure but I think another reason is you’re forcing young guys into roles that they might not be quite ready for. Then they end up losing confidence and stop improving. By keeping guys like EK rather than dumping him, you give a bit of insulation for a guy like Merkley to learn the game and the NHL and learn from a guy like EK. Same thing with Hertl and a lesser extent with Burns and Couture.

Damn this post got away from me. Sorry. :laugh:

As is almost always the case with long-term contracts for players in their late 20s and early 30s, you get value in the early years of the contract at the cost of negative value as they decline with age.

If the Sharks aren't going to be contending the next couple years they should be trying to dump as much long-term money as possible. If they don't money is going to be extremely tight in future years when they are finished re-tooling and some of their young guys need new contracts. Buyouts are always an option but I can't image they want to carry a ton of dead cap, especially with Jones' buyoyut costing them an average of 1.67M until 2026/27.

I think you're being very optimistic about the likely potential of the prospects you listed. Most of the prospects you listed are longshots to be NHLers given their play at lower levels. Only one I think you underrated is Laroque who looks like an absolute gem and a potential top 4 D.
 

Gecklund

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He's clearly not as good as he was in Ottawa. He's no longer the elite defenseman he once was, despite being currently paid like one.



As is almost always the case with long-term contracts for players in their late 20s and early 30s, you get value in the early years of the contract at the cost of negative value as they decline with age.

If the Sharks aren't going to be contending the next couple years they should be trying to dump as much long-term money as possible. If they don't money is going to be extremely tight in future years when they are finished re-tooling and some of their young guys need new contracts. Buyouts are always an option but I can't image they want to carry a ton of dead cap, especially with Jones' buyoyut costing them an average of 1.67M until 2026/27.

I think you're being very optimistic about the likely potential of the prospects you listed. Most of the prospects you listed are longshots to be NHLers given their play at lower levels. Only one I think you underrated is Laroque who looks like an absolute gem and a potential top 4 D.
I mean most of those guys have produced better than Laroque at the same level. But again it’s going back to making sure they are put in a position to succeed and not forced into something else. If Merkley for example had to come in right after being drafted and play in EK’s role, then there is absolutely 0 chance of him ever being anything. If Mueller was allowed to have more time in the minors and not rushed into a Burns baby sitter, maybe he becomes a top 4 D. He showed multiple flashes while he was here but was constantly defending and getting beat on odd man rushes and just lost all confidence to continue progressing. Labanc, Hertl, Timo, Ferraro all examples of guys given extra time to succeed rather than rushed. If we are having to give up stuff for EK, there is absolutely zero reason to move him.
 

Adele Dazeem

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Ottawa gets:

Karlsson 40 percent retained

San Jose gets

Ridley Greig, lotto protected 2023 first, Matt Murray (possible LTIR), Zaitsev

San Jose has to realize they can't do it with this core and needs to get picks, prospects and to tank for Michkov, Bedard.

Ottawa is done tanking and needs to spend futures to become a better team now.

Chabot-Zub
Holden-Karlsson
Sanderson- Hamonic

could be pretty good.

trying to be fair and sensible to both teams but curious where the value is tilting.

I don't like the circumstances with bringing back Karlsson.

My heart says "Absolutely, YES bring him back home!:
But, my brain says "Don't create problems with the current leadership core and potentially disrupt the cap structure of the team"
 

Adele Dazeem

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No.

Sharks are not getting better by trading Karlsson, so if our ownership wants to pretend we are one step away from winning, trading him does not make sense.

If they stop pretending we are close to competing, and start rebuilding, his contract means nothing because we do not need the cap space, and his contract goes a long way to reaching the floor.

Unless Karlsson forces his way off the team by demanding a trade and creating a PR nightmare, or some GM has a temporary moment of insanity and gives the Sharks actual value for Karlsson, he is staying/stuck in SJ.

I think the Sharks are in position to do a quick re-tool of sorts and go for another run before tearing down the whole backbone of the team.
They need to get rid of Vlasic by any means and use the cap space to round out the team better.
Adding guys like Eklund, Merkley, Blichfield to a core of Burns/Couture/Karlsson/Hertl/Meier should be good enough to grab a place in that Pacific division
 

Gecklund

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I think the Sharks are in position to do a quick re-tool of sorts and go for another run before tearing down the whole backbone of the team.
They need to get rid of Vlasic by any means and use the cap space to round out the team better.
Adding guys like Eklund, Merkley, Blichfield to a core of Burns/Couture/Karlsson/Hertl/Meier should be good enough to grab a place in that Pacific division
I think we all kind of agree Vlasic will be bought out this season or next. Also Blichfield is garbage and likely won’t be qualified.
 

Adele Dazeem

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I think we all kind of agree Vlasic will be bought out this season or next. Also Blichfield is garbage and likely won’t be qualified.

You would know better, but after watching some baracuda games I thought he could easily play NHL hockey.
A lot of teams would show interest if he was available.
 

Gecklund

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You would know better, but after watching some baracuda games I thought he could easily play NHL hockey.
A lot of teams would show interest if he was available.
He’s a huge floater. Guy has the motor of a turtle and his edgework is some of the worst I’ve ever seen. His physicality is less than zero. He’s the definition of not good enough for the NHL but too good for the AHL.
 

Groo

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He’s a huge floater. Guy has the motor of a turtle and his edgework is some of the worst I’ve ever seen. His physicality is less than zero. He’s the definition of not good enough for the NHL but too good for the AHL.
Are we talking about the same Joaquim" Boom Boom" Blichfeld?
 

Big Muddy

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Ottawa already got Karlsson's best years. No point in bringing him back.
Ya, while getting rid of Zaitsev and Murray would be nice, I'd rather just hang on to our 1st and Grieg. Loved the Karlsson years in Ottawa, but he's not the same player now.
 

Big Muddy

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I respect all opinions, but if you've seen him play and weren't impressed, you are very hard to please lol.
I'd guess he hasn't seen him play based on what he's saying, and you are being very generous with the last part of your sentence.

I really don't care either as I really doubt if Ottawa is even thinking about trying to acquire Karlsson.
 

Gecklund

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I'd guess he hasn't seen him play based on what he's saying, and you are being very generous with the last part of your sentence.

I really don't care either as I really doubt if Ottawa is even thinking about trying to acquire Karlsson.
Yes because people can’t have different opinions about players. :laugh: real cute there bud.
 

waitin425

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1649864361431.png
 

nbwingsfan

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You're not getting 1st round pick for Erik Karlsson. You'd have include an unprotected 2023 1st round pick with Karlsson just to trade him.
Not at 40% retained no. He’s definitely not the same player, but him at ~$6.5M is still very good value.
 

Pinkfloyd

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Not at 40% retained no. He’s definitely not the same player, but him at ~$6.5M is still very good value.
Karlsson at 7 million is easily worth a 1st round pick going to San Jose. Asking San Jose to retain 4.6 mil for five years requires more than just a first round pick coming to San Jose to get something done.
 

nbwingsfan

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They wouldn’t have to include a first at all “to move him.” That’s just a stupid and ignorant statement from that guy.
Well at full cap hit yes I think they’d definitely have to include a first or take back another long term terrible contract or two and receive little to no value in return.
 

nbwingsfan

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Karlsson at 7 million is easily worth a 1st round pick going to San Jose. Asking San Jose to retain 4.6 mil for five years requires more than just a first round pick coming to San Jose to get something done.
I think at $7M his value would be about a first yes but I doubt any team is going to add anymore than that. Unfortunately San Jose is likely stuck with this contract without biting the bullet and retaining a large amount for a meh return, or waiting a few more years until his contract doesn’t have so many years left and another team can unload a “cheaper” cap dump with 2-3 years left.
 

Cas

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I think at $7M his value would be about a first yes but I doubt any team is going to add anymore than that. Unfortunately San Jose is likely stuck with this contract without biting the bullet and retaining a large amount for a meh return, or waiting a few more years until his contract doesn’t have so many years left and another team can unload a “cheaper” cap dump with 2-3 years left.
I think we're fine holding onto him. He's one of a tiny number of offensive threats on this team and can't afford to trade away any futures.
 

Gecklund

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Please give me an example of a team willing to accept an $11.6M often injured #2D with like 6 years left and is clearly declining and aging fast?

I’m excited to see who
Please give me an example where a dman is putting up 0.7 PPG playing on one of the worst offensive teams in the league is moved and needs a first attached.

I’m excited to see who.
 

Pinkfloyd

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I think at $7M his value would be about a first yes but I doubt any team is going to add anymore than that. Unfortunately San Jose is likely stuck with this contract without biting the bullet and retaining a large amount for a meh return, or waiting a few more years until his contract doesn’t have so many years left and another team can unload a “cheaper” cap dump with 2-3 years left.
Then they're not going to get anything done. Sorry but there's no good reason to retain 4.6 million for 5 years on someone who is still highly productive. I agree that the Sharks are probably stuck with it because nobody would want to pay the actual price it would take to get the team to willingly move him. The Sharks only move Karlsson if he asks out and then it just depends on how much he wants to work with the team to move on.
 
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